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January 13, 2008
Bobcats anticipate Felton will be able to face Nuggets
Based on how he reacted to medical treatment Sunday, the Bobcats are optimistic Raymond Felton (sprained and bruised right ankle) can play Monday night against the Denver Nuggets.
I’m never surprised when Felton toughs one out.
Some of you think I’ve been too hard on Felton (particularly in comparison to Brevin Knight), but I’ve always respected his character and toughness. He cares, he’s professional, and he’s played sometimes with injuries that would have knocked most NBA players out of games. Former coach Bernie Bickerstaff used to worry about saving Felton from his own misguided courage.
My reservations about Felton have been technical ones – when to pass, when to shoot – and I think he’s progressing in that regard. But no one should question his heart.
I won’t be surprised if Jeff McInnis’ strained quadriceps is a lingering problem that limits his effectiveness. That quad strain makes it hard to start and stop and change directions, and McInnis is closer to the end of his career than the beginning.
Posted by Observer Sports on January 13, 2008 at 03:53 PM | Permalink
Comments
Vincent said that if the injury situation remained the same at PG, that he would consider signing a PG from the NBDL to help out.
My question is, wouldn't any of the top-rated NBDL PG's be better than Jeff McInnis anyway? At least one of them could have a potential future.
Posted by: Caleb | Jan 13, 2008 5:53:36 PM
One of the best PGs in the NBADL could come up and do better than McInnis and his 2.7 Ast:TO ratio? That's better than the VAUNTED Raymond Felton. Would an NBADL All-Star be better than him?
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jan 13, 2008 6:38:18 PM
McInnis only averages 4 assists per game. Let's make make his stats look better than they are by pointing at his ratio.
Felton's A/T is 2.4 by the way - not too far from McInnis, with more total assists and some scoring production to go with it. I'll take Felton any day.
Posted by: firesamvincent | Jan 13, 2008 9:27:56 PM
Also, McInnis doesn't offer much production (assists included) so you have to consider the fact that by starting McInnis you lose the productivity of starting another player at the 2 or starting Nazr.
Posted by: firesamvincent | Jan 13, 2008 9:30:46 PM
The number of each is irrelevant. A higher A:TO ratio means you're making smarter decisions with the ball, which Felton regularly is NOT.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jan 13, 2008 9:54:22 PM
Raymond Felton averages 6.9 assists per game this season, which lead to 15-16 ppg (since some assists lead to 3 pointers), and 2.9 turnovers per game (which lead to about 3 ppg for opponent teams, since, as Rick Bonnell mentioned, teams make on average 1 point out of 1 turnover). So, Felton's positive balance (between "creditable" points - through assists , and points he's liable for - through turnovers) is 12-13 ppg. Now, Jeff McInnis averages 4 assists per game, which lead to 9-10 ppg, and 1.5 assists per game (liable for about 1.5 ppg allowed). So, Jeff's positive balance is about 8 ppg. This is why the actual numbers of assists and turnovers matter; they show what a player actually contributes to his team - not their ratio, which is an abstraction, a mind game.
If you wanna point at a player's mistakes, go directly to his turnovers; it will amaze you... The worst 6 offenders (in this category) in the NBA include some of the league's best point guards: Jason Kidd (3.8 TOPG), Steve Nash (3.6 TOPG for the two times MVP!), some All-Stars and the much praised (especially when anybody wants to put down Felton...) Deron Williams (3.5 TOPG). With his 2.9 TOPG, Felton is barely 25th in the league, with another excellent point guard close behind him; Baron Davis has 2.8 TOPG. I hate unforced turnovers probably as much as anybody else, and I'd like Raymond to cut down on them (actually, he shows a modest improvement on this: 2.95 TOPG last season, 2.85 TOPG so far this season). However, my purpose above was to show that there is a big difference between trying to measure a point guard's contribution to his team as a balance between positive and negative, on the one hand, and trying to emphasize the negative, on the other hand.
In the same vein: you wrote, Michael: "... making smarter decisions with the ball, which Felton regularly is NOT". I will count every assist as a "smart decision": 236 for Felton this season (though, obviously, a lot of smart decisions are not counted as assists). And, back to the Felton/McInnis comparison, we can add the scoring, too: 14 PPG for the former, 4PPG for the latter.
I guess that's why Felton's NBA efficiency index is 14.38, while McInnis's stands at 5.86 (his remarkable A/TO per game ratio included). I have no intention of ripping Jeff McInnis; I always said he's all right as a back-up point guard. But, relentlessly being on Raymond's case, emphasizing just the negatives about his game while refusing to acknowledge his overall positive contribution to the team and the fact that he is actually slowly, but surely, improving as a point guard - this is getting old, very old...
Posted by: Sandy12 | Jan 14, 2008 12:48:49 AM
thanks, sandy12, for countering the everyday, asinine & shot-full-of-holes rantings of m. procton. it is, as you say, getting very old. intelligent discourse only please & stop it with the "Felton sucks because i think so!!" line of reasoning, which actually isn't reasoning at all.
Posted by: noj | Jan 14, 2008 8:56:10 AM
procton, as usual, is full of crappo.
Posted by: D-Cat | Jan 14, 2008 11:40:12 AM
Rick
Just to let you know that I am going to continue putting up 5-6 terrible shots a game and turn the ball over in large numbers.
I am from Chapel Hill and can do whatever I want. Thats what Mike said!
I am so glad that Jeff M is hurt because now I will get the ball in my hands more. When Coach Vincent moved me over to SG, that was actually Mike's order. He wanted 2 tar holes on the Court at the same time but didn't want me taking a myriad of terrible shots in each game. But I have to remain on the court since I am a tar hole. Have you seen my shot? Its clear I don't have a good shooting stroke. I am in no way a SG.
I can continue on my terrible decision making ways until another Chapel Hill PG declares for the NBA draft.
Ray F.
Posted by: Ray F. | Jan 14, 2008 1:59:32 PM
Hi, I just saw Bob Johnson speaking on TV about Hilary Clinton...so does this mean that by my going to a Bobcat game I'm helping BJ support Hilary? Yikes!!!!!!
Posted by: Malichae Neese | Jan 14, 2008 2:35:54 PM
Hillary knows all about BJs. Her reaction to finding out that her husband was getting them from that fat intern was the same as that fat intern giving Bill a BJ. Both said - I couldn't breathe, I had a knot in my throat and my stomach was turning.
All African Americans, including yours truly, support the same candidate. I know it looks naive, but just trust me on this one. MJ said so. Hillary is the only candidate that will hand out big enough checks for votes, so that the average African American black may afford a $5 Bobcats tix of the street from a scalper.
P-sout
Ray F.
Posted by: Ray F. | Jan 14, 2008 4:39:19 PM
MLK whose B-Day is coming up said it best it reference to the Ray F. poster.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
I'm tired of the ignorant comments.
Ray F. get a mentor or counseling because you need some help.
Posted by: CEREBRUM | Jan 14, 2008 7:00:40 PM
And that progress of Felton is shown in how he's progressively gotten worse in the areas of 3-point shooting, rebounding, steals, TOs, and A:TO ratio over each year of his career, despite his minutes increasing in each?
The very few areas where I HAVE seen improvement are his ability to recognize that he's a bad shooter, resulting in fewer shots at a (BARELY) higher percentage, although that obviously has something to do with putting him at SG and taking the ball out of his hands. He has also done a better job of using his one above-average basketball skill by actually going to the basket and getting to the line this year. His other rates, however, are down across the board since his rookie year.
Furthermore, regardless of your claims about his "overall contribution to the team", he ranked 3rd in the entire league last year in Loss shares with 30, and ranks a close 6th this year with 12 already.
As for you, anonymous fassel, I'd love to see you (or hell, even your boy D-Cat) provide some "intelligent discourse" OR "reasoning." Jumping on somebody else's unsubstantiated claims doesn't fit in EITHER of those categories.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jan 14, 2008 7:07:55 PM
And one final note, I have a very small penis.
But can still get a chubby when I think of Primoz Brezec, the greatest statistical big man in the Eastern Conference on average the past 3 years.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jan 14, 2008 8:16:31 PM
Michael,
You benefit from an actual BASKETBALL tutorial. I guess the 15 assists he got tonight came from playing shooting guard right? Are you even watching games or just playing stat games on 82games.com. Your low basketball IQ is revealed further everytime you post something. You pick your favorites and the ones you don't like and play with stats to justify your feelings relentlessly.
You are extremely persistent. Congratulations. That doesn't mean that your stat manipulation holds any greater significance now than it did before. But carry on. Just remember to leave your cubicle (where I assume you are surrounded by laptops running off statistical regressions) and actually WATCH A GAME FOR ONCE.
Posted by: jperry | Jan 15, 2008 2:05:08 AM
You're right, jp. Felton's assists didn't come from playing off the ball. They came from the ABYSMAL defense the Nuggets played (which I SAW!) I also watched Felton (as usual) jack up a ton of bricks, shooting 25% from the field and ZERO PERCENT from 3 for the game to go along with his 38% and 22% for the month and 35% and 25% in the last five games. If huge assist games like tonight become the NORM, rather than the EXCEPTION, he can MAYBE overcome that terrible shooting, but given that we've only got one game left against Denver this year, I doubt that'll be the case. I'd certainly love to see him prove me wrong, though...it's just that 192 mediocre games is a lot of track record to overcome with one night of terrible shooting and teammates who hit open shots because the other team wasn't guarding anybody.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jan 15, 2008 3:22:47 AM
Procton,
He had 11 assists the game before most of which came at the pg position. He's essentially starting at the 2, but finishing at the 1 in the various quarters and the games. This notion you have that he is barely playing pg is your own form of manipulation.
You mention his shooting percentage for the month. How about his nearly 3.7/1 assist/turnover ratio for the same time span that you mention his shooting percentage? How about the fact that he's averaged nearly 10 assists a game? Right, right, that comes from Jeff McInnis playing 12-15 minutes or so a game with him.
Taking 12 shots in 40 minutes in a game that pace is not jacking up shots. Again, you can play with stats but you don't know basketball. Why don't you go back to play Psuedo-GM on the Panthers board, because you are out of your element in actually analyzing and understanding basketball.
Alas, you hate Raymond Felton and ALWAYS will. Admit that and leave it at that, but don't insult anyone else's intelligence with your consistent harping on whatever negative stats you can find while ignoring the positive.
Posted by: jperry | Jan 15, 2008 6:23:16 AM
Not once have I said that he's "barely playing PG". In fact, I've pointed out that he's spent about 70% of his minutes at the point. I've simply said that the team is more successful when he's not on the ball. Again, if Felton can CONSISTENTLY make good decisions and maintain a high A:TO ratio, he might have a chance as a 38% FG, 30% 3PT shooter (worse than Brevin, whom everybody HATED because he "couldn't shoot." The fact of the matter is, though, that we've never seen Felton maintain that standard for an extended stretch, and I dare you to try and prove that statement wrong.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jan 15, 2008 12:17:03 PM
Well, if you admit that he's not playing much 2, why don't you stop attributing so much success to his playing the 2? Anyway, let's hope he can consistently get time with the lineup I mentioned a while back of Carroll, Richardson, Wallace, and Mohammed that is the best offensive lineup of the team. It spreads the floor, provides a good pick and roll option, shooters, and gives Wallace the chance to have his greatest offensive advantage.
BTW, despite similar shooting percentages overall, Raymond has made more clutch shots, FTs, 4th quarter plays in wins, etc. than Brevin did in his whole time with the Bobcats. You see what you fail to understand Mr. Procton is that it is not simply about blanket numbers in a vaccuum. It is also about when one steps up as well and how they respond to pressure. And whil Felton has PLENTY of room to grow, he has shown potential here. BTW, I don't know why you brought up the 3 pt shooting numbers as that was out of BK's range altogether and therefore irrelevant to the discussion. I
Unfortunately, based on your various posts, its clear you resent it (and whoever replaces them) everytime someone from "YOUR" Bobcat team leaves or takes on a lesser role. Are you still mad about Nazr replacing Primo and Hermann? You still think that move was a waste and a bad move?
Posted by: jperry | Jan 15, 2008 1:48:00 PM
BTW, MP, I could not find another time where he had a 3.7/1 A/T ratio over extended time. I did find a 17 game stretch fro Dec. 6 to Jan. 13 last year where he averaged 11 assists per game with a 3.3/1 a/t ratio. The last 16 games of his rookie year he averaged 9.2 assists a game with a 3.2/1 ratio. He's had some "OK" stretches for distribution in his SHORT career. Although, I'm sure with that data you will now once again move the carrot. ;-) Like I said, if you simply said you will NEVER like/appreciate/respect Raymond Felton, things would be a lot easier.
This notion of Felton not being a playmaker, having vision, or the ability to find his teammates has been a farce. That was part of what scouts liked about him to begin with. Does he need time and opportunity to develop chemistry with them? Sure. Are these traits outside of his repertoire? No. But then again, depending on what side of the fence one is/has been on that issue, folks will see things different ways.
One of my problems with the way you go after Felton is that it is hard to see what HE has done to warrant your disdain. You may say its just his play, but your distaste seems to go beyond that. Earlier in the year when he was shooting well and playing well, instead of acknowledging it, you seemed to bide your time until you could come back with your usual criticisms. I could understand this, if he proclaimed himself the man and worthy of whatever status.
You constantly talk about him not being a "franchise" pg. Well, he hasn't had that much time. Further he has not shown himself to not be. And if one says that he has had enough time, why are you not riding Emeka Okafor who has PROCLAIMED that he is worthy of FRANCHISE big man/player pay (turning down a fair contract), and having been here longer, while having another post player come in and get the crunch time minutes on the floor? If you were evenhanded with your criticism, HE would be the guy you would be going after with the vehemence that you do Felton--NOT that he deserves it either.
In the end, I think both guys are SOLID YOUNG players who can continue to grow into more. It would be nice to be able to watch that and come and read this blog, which has IMPROVED in my opinion (Big Ups to Rick!) without having the same pissing matches over Raymond Felton.
Posted by: jperry | Jan 15, 2008 2:35:10 PM
BTW Sandy 12, Excellent post.
Posted by: jperry | Jan 15, 2008 2:59:48 PM
I do still think the Mohammed trade was bad. We traded two young, cheap players with upside for a guy who in the span of about 10 games proved he couldn't handle a starter's load, yet is being paid like an All-NBA player. When we're hampered under the cap for the next few years, that (and the salary that Sean May has never done ANYTHING to earn) will be the main reason why.
And congratulations...you've found a month each season in which Felton has played up to his draft status, salary, and legend in Columbia blue lore. For the 5th pick in the draft, that doesn't cut it for me.
The guy's played in almost 200 games, and you want the 25% of those you point out to have the most weight. Why? What justification is there for that thinking? In fact, I'd say that if he could do it his rookie year, there's no reason he shouldn't be doing it on a consistent basis today. The fact of the matter is that he really hasn't improved since that year, and no amount of time on the team to "improve chemistry" has helped.
You're right that Felton himself isn't usually one to boast or brag. It's just all the blind UNC fans who proclaimed (and PROCLAIM) him the greatest thing to play point guard since Bob Cousy.
If you want to talk about an unassuming player, Emeka Okafor is NOT the one to go after. He is under no obligation to accept a contract from the Bobcats just because they are his current team. If you had a chance to take a sum of money, but knew you could (likely, even) have better offers a few months down the road, why not take it? I challenge you to show me this "proclamation" where he demanded ANY sum of money. It's not like the guy made a declaration he wasn't signing with Charlotte...they'll still have the right to match anybody else's offer to him if they so choose. Furthermore, I appreciate Okafor as a player willing to do all the little things (defense, rebounding) with no regard for how flashy his play is, as opposed to Felton, who will hot dog it with some And1 wannabe crap to get off the Chapel Hilltards and blow easy plays doing so.
As for your enjoyment of this blog, it's not my responsibility to ensure that you have a "pleasant reading experience." If you tire of having to defend your boy from my perfectly relevant and accurate points, you don't need to do it.
And finally, you whine about how Felton "hasn't had much time." How long have Chris Paul and Deron Williams had? Or maybe you'd rather defend his performance against Daniel Gibson, Rajon Rondo, or Jose Calderon, all of whom have played significantly less games, were drafted significantly lower, and have production nearing or better than Felton's on superior teams.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jan 15, 2008 9:56:29 PM
It's funny how the young guys you picked have played on better total teams in more established situations than Felton. You were right with one part, they play on superior teams and have from day 1. They have had consistent coaching in consistent positions with solid offensive talent around them. As I said, it's not a coincidence that Felton's assists and such are better with Mohammed here. The other pgs that you mentioned have played well individually, but in large part b/c of their systems and the surrounding shooters, finishers, and stars around them as well.
You whine about paying Mohammed like an All-Star (you're really just mad about Primo being gone) but defend Okafor commanding a MAX contract and being outplayed by Mohammed. You show NO consistency in your arguments and flawed logic. You call Okafor unassuming, but he said he deserved Dwight Howard money. That is not unassuming. Okafor is in his 4th year (more time than Felton), not dominating or the carrying force for the team, asking to get paid like it, and yet you are going after Felton. The only word that works to describe your posting is vendetta.
You only expose yourself further everytime you post. You complain about people playing favorites, but you might want to read your own posts. Projection is the psychological term that fits here.
Posted by: jperry | Jan 16, 2008 12:32:36 AM
How can you complain about the Mohammad trade. The only reason Primoz started was for the jump ball. He played all of 6 min/game and average 2 points a game. Mohammad is nearly a double double every night, coming off the bench and a far better scorer. Primoz isn't young either. He's getting old. I admit getting rid of Hermann wasn't a good move, but getting rid of Primoz was. We actually have a center who can play, unlike Primoz who just runs around with his hands in the air.
Posted by: wade | Jan 16, 2008 11:43:18 AM
The Jazz and Hornets were both AWESOME before Paul and Williams arrived. It's a good thing they landed on teams that were so good. Wait a minute...they landed on teams with 18 (Hornets) and 26 (Jazz) wins the season before and increased their win totals by 20 and 15, respectively. Yes, that was in their FIRST SEASON! As for Felton, he arrived on an 18-win team (the same as Paul's) and their win total increased by...eight. AWESOME! I've still yet to see the quote where Okafor either "commanded a max contract" or "said he deserved Dwight Howard Money."
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jan 16, 2008 5:35:37 PM
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