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June 06, 2008
Basketball's culture of tease
Billy Packer called me, interested in what I wrote Sunday about players skipping games at the NBA’s pre-draft camp.
Packer, the Charlotte-based college-basketball analyst, makes a valid point: The system that carries a player from high school star to NBA player often discourages competition. It's what I'd call a culture of tease.
These kids are less about kicking each other’s butts and more about marketing their potential (and hiding their flaws). So if marginal first-round picks duck the competition at pre-draft camp, that’s tolerated as a business decision, rather than scrutinized as a character flaw.
Remember when Michael Jordan had a "love of the game'' clause in his contract, assuring he could play basketball whenever he wanted in the off-season? I'm sure today's draft prospect would consider that quaint.
Posted by Observer Sports on June 6, 2008 at 03:23 PM | Permalink
Comments
Wow.
Posted by: Bobcat Matt | Jun 6, 2008 3:40:53 PM
Get a handle on your font, Bonnell! For godsake why can't you have a consistent and legible font? is the size and spacing to make us ignore the fact that you have no content?
Isn't it a business decision? what does a lottery bound player have to prove by going to these predraft camps? if they're lottery bound, the team has seen all the need to see. The craziness is exemplified with Lawson deemed to have played his way into the 20th spot with his one day performance. What does that one day or three prove that the seasons of play before didn't?
It's the same craziness with the combine, how a player with a so-so career suddenly has 20 foot reach while only be 6'1 in shoes and is now considered a first round lock.
This is similar to bonnell posting multiple blogs with different types, that makes a less frequent visitor think he is prolific.
Posted by: Bonnell = Procton | Jun 6, 2008 5:27:24 PM
I agree. Thats why there are no great rivalries anymore.
Posted by: Jeremy | Jun 8, 2008 9:49:10 AM
Bonnell, I'm lonely. All this blog posting, it's like you don't have time for me anymore. And I can't get the smell of Larry Brown's arse off of me.
Posted by: Bonnell's moustache | Jun 8, 2008 11:18:08 PM
Did the Bobs take Ryan Hollins over Leon Powe in 2006? If so I don't like that decision so much.
Posted by: Frad | Jun 9, 2008 7:34:54 AM
Bonnell, what is going on with your Lakers?
Posted by: boywonder | Jun 9, 2008 9:06:31 AM
Actually, Frad, Leon Powe came off the board one pick before Hollins. Powe has seen limited playing time but produces when given the opportunity. I still think the 'Cats would have stuck with Hollins if Powe was on the board. Hollins upside was markedly better than Powe's due in large part to his athleticism, and that is always an intriguing factor in the NBA, choosing guys with size and strength or those who are 'tweeners with multiple skill sets. I like Powe's style though, always the aggressor and extremely physical. He seems like the kind of player that could really take his game to a new level if he saw consistent playing time.
Posted by: go'cats | Jun 9, 2008 10:28:55 AM
It also doesn't hurt to play with better players around you. Powe spent the most minutes on the floor with Rondo, Allen, Pierce, and Posey. Hollins spent his time with Felton, Carroll, Richardson, and Mohammed.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jun 9, 2008 12:21:44 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280405030
That is the link to the boxscore when the Celtics ran the Bobs out of their own building minus the big 3. Powe had a very efficient 22 points 9 rebounds. Powe can ball if given the opportunity.
Posted by: LeeL | Jun 9, 2008 1:36:08 PM
Yeah, Powe really struggled that game w/o the big 3. And Rhondo is not a better PG than Felton, please Procton do not ever argue that again.
Posted by: Mason | Jun 9, 2008 4:03:04 PM
This may be the first and only time I say this but Procton has a point. And Rondo is a better PG than felton. Felton is a better SG than Rondo as Rondo has not shot what so ever and Felton's in slightly better then that.
If you need proof, check the 16 record assist Rondo had last night in game 2 of his first playoffs.
Does any of that prove who is the better PG. I would take Rondo because he is a true PG and thinks pass first. Whereas Ray Ray (who is my boy still, but I speak the truth) is a combo guard better at SG then PG. And not that good at SG either. HA HA
Holla!
Posted by: T-Dub | Jun 9, 2008 5:04:08 PM
Come on go'cats, had you seriously ever heard of the great Ryan Hollins when the Bobs took him? No way, unless you are some super college basketball fan. Powe was 2nd team All-America and led Cal to the NCAA tourney his last year.
Posted by: Frad | Jun 9, 2008 7:31:16 PM
I never said I would pick him over Powe, Frad. I said I think the Bobcats still would have picked Hollins, not knowing how either of them have turned out, over Powe if Powe was on the board when they picked. And yes, I had heard of Hollins at that time, but that's neither here nor there, the Bobcats were the ones drafting, not me. NBA teams have been in love with these tall, athletic specimen over the past 5-10 years and I think the Bobcats loved Hollins' potential and where he was drafted the reward outweighed the risk. Now if they could have a do-over, knowing what they do now, I'm sure they would grab Powe in a second...but that was not my argument.
Posted by: go'cats | Jun 9, 2008 8:39:45 PM
Rondo plays with 3 guys who were #1 scorers at their respective teams before uniting and can all SHOOT jumpshots. Rondo is not a pass-first pg. He is a pass first, second, third, and fourth point guard. How many other pgs in the league play like that? NAME them. Most of them can't get away with it, b/c they don't have the type of and depth of personnel that the Celtics do.
Felton is not a freakin combo guard and plays pass first despite the rhetoric developed here in Bobcats fantasy land. As I showed in another thread, when putting up against all the "pass first" pgs and combo guards, his shooting rate (how many shots he put up per minute) was around 40th! That is not combo or shoot first.
BTW, I love how Procton listed the main players minus Wallace and Okafor as the people who held Hollins back as if the other 2 are in the same class as the Celtics Big 3. Typical overrating of the chosen 2. Hollins biggest issue is that he has not gotten a consistent shot to show what he can do.
Posted by: jperry | Jun 9, 2008 10:43:23 PM
BTW, early in Felton's career, he set the Bobcats record for assists in a game with 19 helping lead the 8-21 Cats to a road win against a full strength, playoff bound Indiana Pacers team. This was the team's 4th game in a 5 day stretch as well and less than 24 hours after a triple overtime win against the Lakers.
Those 19 assists came with the following minutes breakdown from the various stars:
Gerald Wallce--18 minutes (injured)
Emeka Okafor--39 minutes
Primoz Brezec--18 minutes
Adam Morrison--38 minutes
Derek Anderson--16 minutes
Jake Voskuhl--12 minutes
Matt Carroll--28 minutes
Sean May--17 minutes
Bernard Robinson--2 minutes
Othella Harrington--5 minutes
*Raymond Felton--41 minutes
Folks can keep mistakenly labeling Felton a combo or whatever, but the reality is that when he has played in situations with decent shooting on the floor like most productive pgs in this league, he has produced. You guys continually miss the fundamental part of the equation of having SHOOTERS around the pg. BTW, I REALLY like Rajon Rondo's game, but to think that he could successfully play that way with the Bobcats personnel would be BEYOND DELUSIONAL.
Posted by: jperry | Jun 9, 2008 11:04:48 PM
Preach it, Perry! I could not agree with you more. Felton has proven he can get the job done. He definitely makes a lot of mistakes but so do all PG's. His assists are there, his turnovers are up there with the likes of J-Kidd, D-Will, and CP3, and my only knock on him is that the shots he takes do not go in at the same rate as the top tier of PG's. If Larry Brown can work his magic and tweak Ray Ray's game then he has the potential to be a top 10 PG for sure. And Rondo is the basketball equivalent of Trent Dilfer...a game manager. He simply goes in there and makes sure he doesn't hand the ball to the other team. It must be real hard dishing the rock to 3 all-star-caliber veterans night in and night out. If the Bobcats draft a PG at 9, I will have officially lost all hope for this franchise.
Posted by: go'cats | Jun 9, 2008 11:46:54 PM
Aha...so it's only the lack of talent around him that allows Rondo to get more assists. OK, fine, I'll go with that. Why, then, though, does Felton shoot a career high of 41% from the field this year, when Rondo has shot 46% for his CAREER? I'd take that extra basket every other game in a heartbeat from a kid who shoots whenever he wants.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jun 10, 2008 12:19:53 AM
Oh, and before you begin to compare their 3PT%, let's note that Ray Ray has foolishly decided that it was a good idea for him to shoot 200 threes this year at 28%. Rondo may only shoot 23% (not THAT much worse), but he's only taken 48 of 'em for his CAREER. It's not just Ray Ray's terrible shooting, it's his SHOT SELECTION. Send the message if you want to be behind your boy so much.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jun 10, 2008 12:23:08 AM
Procton,
I'm not shocked that you continue to try to sum up pgs by their fg percentage as if that alone defines their value since it fits your anti-Felton rhetoric. Unfortunately for you, there is more to a pg's worth than his fg percentage and to think that all pgs roles can be ubiquitously passed from team to team with success is flat out wrong.
Rondo is able to play the way he does, b/c there are enough threats to compensate for the fact that the opponents WONT EVEN GUARD HIM. While I LOVE watching him operate, the stuff that flies with the Boston roster with the various SHOOTERS and talent on the Celtics roster. Put him on the Bobcats roster and let him run from shots, and you would be forced to bench him b/c we would be way too easy to defend.
Folks can continue to ignore what I say about the need for shooting on the floor, but the reality is smacking you in the face everytime you turn around. If you think Rondo could run the offense he did without shooters on the floor like Allen, Pierce and Garnett (that's right a pick and pop frontcourt player), you're nuts.
Every strong initiator of offense in the current NBA needs multiple shooters on the floor to support their driving and play making. Whether it is Nash, Paul, Williams, Parker, or Lebron, there is a constant battle to get the right balance of shooters to spread the floor so they can do what makes them special. Why you folks continue to think Charlotte is immune to this, I will never understand.
Posted by: jperry | Jun 10, 2008 12:48:14 AM
Felton, like all the Bobcats has plenty of room to improve. I would have given him a list of shots to really work on in the offseason (floater, midrange jumper, layup off one foot, and 3 pointer off pass/NOT dribble (scrap that shot)) and have him work to master those as they would fit the type of shots that would come from the pick and roll and ball rotations/kickouts. Felton like the other Cats also, he has not had much legitimate coaching development. Seriously, how many of our young draft picks have made large strides in their development? It's not just drafting of players. It's UTILIZING and DEVELOPING them properly that makes the difference.
The Bobcats have not had this type of direction since their inception. They had a guy who got them to play hard in Bernie (who had a good sense of expansion business and team building), but the actual development of personnel has been minimal. Furthermore, they have NOT had a clear SYSTEM with LEGITIMATE DIRECTION either. They have young pieces, but have lacked the architect to cohesively matchup and build on proper pieces and mold them into a legitimate unit.
At this point, I hope we get that frontcourt player that can pick and pop and spread the floor especially if we keep Gerald at the 3. No matter how we try to run from it, we will need jumpshooting on the floor to suppliment the ability to drive. Otherwise we better run, run, run, and avoid the halfcourt like a plague. I think with the right pieces, Larry can do a lot for this team and for the coach who succeeds him.
BTW, anybody care to look up Finals MVP Chauncey Billups TOTAL numbers from the year before LB got there, and the years when LB was there including when they won the finals? Surely, they would dwarf those of a "bum" like Felton, right?
Posted by: jperry | Jun 10, 2008 12:56:12 AM
My boy? What are you Tony Kornheiser now? Keep it coming Young Procton.
Posted by: jperry | Jun 10, 2008 12:57:25 AM
Yes, Procton, having better players around you will account for the better assist numbers, that is basic.
Further, what you can't tell by the numbers is that having these better players will also account for a higher field goal percentage. This is because the individual guarding the lethal Rondo is doubling one of the Big 3 or is playing off of him hoping he will shoot. Realizing this would involve actually watching the game rather than scouring the stats.
Posted by: LeeL | Jun 10, 2008 9:05:04 AM
That is a great point LeeL. Obviously Procton has never watched an NBA game in his life, but if he had, he would realize that teams often do not even guard Rondo. They play off of him at least 5 feet and swing the rotation and help defense away from him and onto Pierce and Garnett. If teams did this against Felton he would eat them alive, which is why they do not ever leave Felton.
Also, playing with one of the best pure scorers in the game w/ Pierce and one of the best all around players in Garnett, also a perfect pick-n-pop big man, along with one of the best shooters of all-time in Allen should lead to a ton of assists. I promise you that if the Bobcats offered to trade Felton for Rondo straight up, the Celtics would pull the trigger immediately.
Posted by: Mason | Jun 10, 2008 9:31:34 AM
Agreed Mason.
Above Procton argues that Powe is not as good as he seems because he plays with the Big 3: "It doesn't hurt to play with better players around you."
However, when speaking of Rondo and his assists, it is irrelevant who he plays with. Hilarious.
Posted by: LeeL | Jun 10, 2008 10:24:30 AM
I absolutely could not agree more Perry, Leel, and Mason. It's ludicrous also that Procton says he will take Rondo's career FG% over Ray-Ray's which is 5% higher and his 3-Point % which is actually 5% lower, even remarking how it's not that much higher. Hmm...that's weird how he will take that extra shot a game, field-goal wise, but he claim it isn't that much in his next sentence. I know he is going to say Ray-Ray's bloated attempts number justifies it, but you would be a fool to think LB isn't going to come in here and transform Felton's game...limiting his shots, increasing his FG% slightly, and reducing his turnovers...which are no worse than the top-tier of PG's as I have shown before. What do you suppose we do, Procton? Draft Augustin? He has NBA STUD written alllllll over him....yeah, right. Fact of the matter is, CP3 and D-Will will always be linked to Felton, but neither were on the board when the 'Cats picked. Felton is a legit PG in this league, and given Brown's track-record, he can become a top-tier PG. I don't think any NBA analyst would rank Rondo up at the top right now...the kid is a game manager as a said above. When your job consists of not turning the ball over and handing it off to a bunch of all-stars and hall of famers, you're sitting pretty. The Celtics could bring Robert Parrish in to run the point and that team would still click.
Posted by: go'cats | Jun 10, 2008 11:29:55 AM
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