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June 26, 2008
Trade veteran? Here's the scoop
The Bobcats have been assessing the value of their players in trade, a fairly common practice around draft time. Based on the impressions of several NBA sources, the following patterns have emerged:
- If the Bobcats have an untouchable right now, it’s Jason Richardson. They have virtually no willingness to trade him.
- They’re not nearly as interested in moving Raymond Felton as some Felton-bashers might think.
- Gerald Wallace or Emeka Okafor could be had by another team (though with Okafor – a restricted free agent – that would have to be a sign-and-trade). That doesn’t mean either one is being shopped, but they’re available.
- The injured forwards, Sean May and Adam Morrison, could easily be thrown into anything to make a deal work.
Bottom line on all this: Other teams haven’t shown much enthusiasm for giving up much of consequence in trade for the Bobcats’ veterans.
Posted by Observer Sports on June 26, 2008 at 08:23 AM | Permalink
Comments
Well obviously they're not interested in moving Felton. I'm not even willing to believe THAT. Given that they've stuck with him this long despite a lack of improvement, they're not going to give up on him now, particularly with the addition of EVEN MORE Tar Baby staff members. They're still jizzing all over themselves because Felton "brought them a championship."
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jun 26, 2008 8:32:36 AM
If that was the case Mr. Procton, then they wouldn't even dream about trading Sean May. Remember May won the MVP of the Final Four and he was the one who "brought" UNC the championship.
Posted by: ED | Jun 26, 2008 8:57:08 AM
reports are that the bobcats just want to keep those picks, which COULD turn out alright, maybe westbrook and hibbert as back ups/contributors. or lopez/chalmers same difference. just really hope for INSTANT contributions thru vets, using these picks as assets to add to a package(like 9/russell westbrook, carrol, may and davidson to portland, who are acquiring picks to trade AND STILL stay in the 1st like charlotte, for PG steve blake, SG/SF martell webster and pick 13/C mareese speights). still leaves portland with pick 27(SG/SF cris douglas roberts) and charlotte still with pick 20(PF anthony randolph). its a win-win for both teams.
blazers look like this
pg westbrook/ jack
sg roy/carrol/douglas-roberts
sf outlaw/frye/miles
pf aldridge/may/davidson
c oden/pryzbilla
thats a great young lineup
bobcats look like this
pg felton/blake
sg richardson/morrison
sf wallace/webster
pf speights/randolph
c okafor/mohammad
and eventually when randolph eats a sandwich, we can switch the front court to okafor/randolph, plus it can still mix and match with big mohammad/speights/wallace or small okafor/randolph/wallace, because randolph should able to play sf
Posted by: brendan | Jun 26, 2008 8:57:09 AM
Yes, you are correct Procton. They have STUCK with Felton despite any improvement on his part (not due to a lack of a post player w/ any offensive moves or some reliable outside shooters beside J Rich of course) just as they have STUCK w/ one of the worst picks of all-time in Morrison and another terrible pick in Okafor. Gotta love drafting a guy #2 overall in the draft who will never be an all-star and has no real position in the NBA.
You always love to pick on Felton however look at his stats over the last 8 games of the season when Wallace was out of the lineup and Carrol and Dudley (both solid outside shooters) were playing. For the month of March, Felton averaged 16.8 ppg and 9.6 apg. Wow, those are just terrible numbers. Oh yeah, he also grabbed 4.5 rbg during that stretch, which is more than Morrison ever averaged over a similar period. Not too bad for your PG huh?
Posted by: Mason | Jun 26, 2008 9:02:44 AM
Everyone, let's just start a pact right now going forward. If no one ever responds to anything Procton says, MAYBE he will just go away! Who's down? He thrives off people responding to his posts, so maybe, JUSTTTTT maybe, this will work.
Posted by: Bobcat Matt | Jun 26, 2008 9:12:12 AM
Procton, I know how much you hate Tarheel nation, but as the Morning Sports Page guys noted, we got the 20th pick from the Denver chapter of the Carolina mafia.
As for the topic of this blog, if Bonnell says other teams are not showing enthusiasm for any of our veterans, then we can conclude that there is Plenty of enthusiasm from other teams.
Posted by: apauldds | Jun 26, 2008 9:15:07 AM
Sorry Bobcat Matt, I just broke the pact.
Posted by: apauldds | Jun 26, 2008 9:16:27 AM
Personally I feel Felton will be a good point gaurd if he is left alone and not switched to the two gaurd position. An example of that is when the released McInis towards the end of the season and Raymond was played exclusively at the point, his production was good and the team was better.
Posted by: solitude | Jun 26, 2008 9:27:22 AM
lol, the "Denver chapter of the Carolina mafia."
I wish that were the case. The pick we got from Denver is almost assuredly going to be less value than the pick we will end up giving back to them. It might seem like a nice deal now, but down the road, when we have to give up possibly another lottery pick, or a 15-18 pick, it probably won't look so good.
But I guess that's par for the course. Why can't the "Carolina mafia" be like the Celtic mafia? They give do trades that actually benefit their team. The "Carolina mafia" has given us a whole lot of nothing (from the questionable Felton, to the always-injured May, to the god-awful McInnis, to the 1st round pick that will probably be worth less than the pick we gave up to get it, etc).
Posted by: Will | Jun 26, 2008 9:28:38 AM
The Celtics did one trade in 20 years that helped their team.
Posted by: apauldds | Jun 26, 2008 9:34:58 AM
Maybe, but that's one more beneficial trade than the "Carolina mafia" has provided us with :)
Posted by: Will | Jun 26, 2008 9:52:19 AM
my last attempt at prognostication.
milicic & crittenton for #9 & mohammed.
charlotte will then pick up hibbert with the 20th pick acquired today.
Posted by: larry | Jun 26, 2008 10:35:59 AM
Trade #9, #20, and Morrison to T-Wolves for #3. They get a shooter, and if they're obsessed with the 'stache, let them have him.
Then trade #3, Boykins, and May (both potential fits or, at the very least, expiring contracts) to the Heat for #2 and Mark Blount. That way, Miami can unload some cap money and still draft Mayo. We get Beasley, unload our overpaid underachievers, and get a backup C/PF.
Get a backup PG in the second round, or make a play for Beno Udrih or Jannero Pargo with the cap room freed up by the departure of Boykins, Ammo, and May.
The 2008-09 lineup is:
C - Okafor/Blount/Mohammed/Hollins
PF - Beasley/Okafor/Davidson
SF - Wallace/Dudley
SG - Richardson/Caroll
PG - Felton/Udrih or Pargo or 2nd round PG
Posted by: The Doctor | Jun 26, 2008 10:40:11 AM
This not is for solitude. Yes the celts won a championship hooray but they didn't build a team for the future. Danny Aingle knew he was going to be fired and done what any other person would do give up the farm for a here and now. The current celts wouldn't even compete for a championship in two years. I respect the trophy they won but jus because you have a large pocketbook and willing to buy a championship don't make you a genius.
On to the bobcats I agree with most what they will get with the 20th pick will not come close to what they will give up. This draft class is the weakest in many years. What they get with the 20th pick will not be much more than they could get in the 2nd round or better and undrafted player. Anyone look at Rod Benson from the D league why the heck we don't pay him pennies. He is an anmial.
Peace
Posted by: mrgastonia | Jun 26, 2008 10:55:51 AM
Are you serious mrgastonia? According to most scouts who do it for a living this is a fairly deep draft. Not deep in the way that their is a proportionate number of prospects by position but deep in the way of talent. Sure a guy picked at number twenty might not be an immediate impact player but eventually that player may be a solid contributor. That is all you can ever expect from a player picked outside the top ten. Statistically, outside of the top two picks the ninth pick has been the pick to turn up a star or super star more than any other. That is according to NBA TV!! It may be best for the cats to keep pick nine.
With all that said, having an extra draft pick never has been a bad thing. What pick twenty gives us at the least is a bit of leverage and we can make a solid trade to move up in the draft or at the least add a solid veteran to add to this teams talent level and improve chemistry.
According to what I have read, depending on the way this team performs the Nuggets may not get our future first rounder until many seasons from now. By that time it won't matter. If our team becomes a playoff team a late first rounder won't be that big a deal.
Posted by: Gary Linger | Jun 26, 2008 11:36:58 AM
Procton, what lack of improvement are you speaking of? Are you talking about the organization as a whole? Because it isn't fair to say Felton hasn't improved when he ranks among the league's best in assists and his turnover rate is no worse than those same players. Although he takes too many shots and his shooting percentage isn't high enough to justify it in the first place. He is now entering his fourth season with a third head coach. Tell me how that could be beneficial to any young player? He was drafted after Williams and Paul, so compare him to those two simply isn't fair either. He is a playmaker, a slasher, and like his other two draft-classmates he gets his teammates involved. He isn't as efficient as those two, but you would be crazy to not see the similarity to Williams and Paul in his style of play. He is definitely the third best PG selected in that draft, and at his age I don't see the use in drafting the "PG of the future" as Bonnell wrote about today. Let's go ahead and abandon Felton when we just hired the winningest head coach in basketball history, draft another lottery PG and expect him to outperform Felton. Draft analyst John Hollinger uses an applied regression formula to achieve a player's efficiency rating (PER) in their third year. Coming out in '05 Felton had the third highest rating in that PG class, which is right along with him being the third best PG from the class now. Further his 16.29 rating is nearly a point and a half higher than the best ranker PG from this draft and Hollinger says, and I quote: "surprisingly, nobody rates as a slam-dunk lottery pick, not even Derrick Rose." Oh yeah, this seems like a great time to draft a PG. Felton will improve and step up his game under LB, this team goes as he does, and Brown knows this as well. I expect Felton to make huge strides this season. And as my name alludes to, I'm anything but a Tarheel fan, so don't pin that as the reason for my support of Ray-Ray.
Posted by: mountaaineerdynAsty | Jun 26, 2008 11:53:17 AM
I'll have to agree with Gary. The professional do for the most part agree that this draft is quite deep and many teams are looking for extra 1st round picks. I did read that Danny Ainge isn't impressed with this draft class but until the "celtic mafia" handed a championship roster he was widely seen as total loon. Also I doubt he's been scouting the class that hard considering he's got the last pick and a roster that doesn't need many changes.
Doc, I don't think you realize how little cap space we have to work with, even if we can retain Okafor, Wallace, and Richardson while absorbing Blount's contract(not likely), we won't have any space left for a desirable back up PG. We're better off keeping the picks we have, bringing in two solid contributor from a deep draft, and letting Larry Brown coach the hell out of this team. The Bobcats were widely considered to be underachievers last season because the core is talented. We don't need to bend over backwards shooting for impossible trade scenarios to get Beasley.
Posted by: Jared | Jun 26, 2008 12:02:25 PM
Adam Morrison has played in ONE NBA season, and his contract has been extended ZERO times. Felton has played in THREE NBA seasons and his contract has been extended TWO times. Terrible comparison. Further, I'd rather look at a 237-game career than a single eight-game stretch. And unlike people like solitude believe, he's consistently been a more efficent player and the team has achieved more success throughout his career when he's playing off the ball
Emeka Okafor is an All-Star right now on a playoff team.
Hey mountie...Felton's minutes have gone up every year, and his rates have gone down in everything. Pretty sad that you can't compare a player to the guy who gets picked ONE slot in front of him. I guess I should never have to hear Okafor compared to Dwight Howard again. Also interesting that you'd compare Felton's college PER to other players given that the '05 UNC team had more talent on it than any other team in recent memory. It's easy to put up good numbers when you've got three lotto picks suiting up next to you. I just plain don't understand why you'd suddently expect Felton to have a jump in development when you've already whined about how much it hurts to change coaches and he's done nothing but get worse every year.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jun 26, 2008 12:11:54 PM
First of all PER was developed as a baseline way of determining how a player will perform down the road. Hollinger took into effect multiple factors to create a level playing field among draftees, otherwise what's the point? So, he has thought that out already, Procton. And it is acceptable to judge Felton against WIlliams and Paul, but when those two were actually drafted in front of Felton, I would expect them to outperform him, that's the point. But his game is similar, and his numbers aren't that far off. He is the third best PG from that draft, you can't dispute that, and of course you didn't, you decided to nit-pick minute details as always. I also wasn't whining about the coaching changes either, I was drawing attention to that fact, not doing it wouldn't be doing his career thus far justice. And as I mentioned, LB is the only coach to win both NCAA and NBA titles, so that speaks volumes to me. Most notably though, the fact that he can coach young and veteran players. He also has a history of developing players, Vincent and Bickerstaff were not strong suited in that area. With that being said, that's why I feel LB is going to elevate Felton's game, with his track record and where Felton's game stands, he isn't that far off.
Posted by: mountaaineerdynAsty | Jun 26, 2008 12:24:13 PM
Yes...he's great at coaching young players. Just ask Darko.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jun 26, 2008 12:26:27 PM
Procton, stop lying about team success. Our greatest stretches of winning have all come with Felton the bulk of minutes and closing time at the point guard postion.
Carry on with the rest of your fabrication and rewarding players for being injured (unless they are Sean May) like the season doesn't go on with those injuries. Durability be damned.
If Felton had gone out and Tonya Harding'ed May and Morrison and injured Gerald, Emeka, and Brevin the past few years I would get your casual approach to their injuries and disproportionate dumping their effects on him. However, as this is not the case, I'm not sure of your basis.
Posted by: jperry | Jun 26, 2008 12:28:12 PM
Our frontcourt is a lot different than the Detroit Darko walked into.
Posted by: jperry | Jun 26, 2008 12:36:52 PM
Until further notice I concede to all points and arguments made by the one and only, Michael Procton. His vastly superior knowledge and foresight brings me to my knees as I am incapable of achieving the omnipotence he commands. I am now convinced that God did not create the universe, but rather Michael Procton did and it took him a mere seven hours to do so. I beg for his mercy and that he might hold me in his favor as I am forever petrified the knowledge he imparts might cause my cranium to explode.
Posted by: mountaaineerdynAsty | Jun 26, 2008 12:43:25 PM
I think you are all missing the point.
How is this entry described as a "scoop"
He's points were: J rich is untouchable (really?!?!?!)
May and Morrison are available in any trade scenario (what?!?!?)
How does he get paid for this?
Posted by: bonnell=procton | Jun 26, 2008 1:01:12 PM
Procton, what is your beef with Unc players. More time on the books and less on the blogs and you still might be attending UNC
Posted by: Sam | Jun 26, 2008 1:01:49 PM
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