July 01, 2008
Bobcats interested in Diop?
I've heard from several sources the Bobcats are more active than in the past, exploring free-agent opportunities. One possibility: Former Nets center DeSagana Diop. Don't know how serious their interest is in Diop, but certainly another big man "at an affordable price" is worth considering.
I've heard from several sources the Bobcats are more active than in the past, exploring free-agent opportunities. One possibility: Former Nets center DeSagana Diop.
Don't know how serious their interest is in Diop, but certainly another big man "at an affordable price" is worth considering.
Posted by Observer Sports on July 1, 2008 at 11:00 PM | Permalink
Diop would be a great move IF we don't spend any more than we were paying Harington. That might be really do-able, I don't know the market for Diop, but if he were offered more than $2.5 million I would be surprised. If we could sign him for two years, he would be a great player to backup Okafor and would give us some rim-defense if and when Okafor were to leave via free-agency.
What I'm worried about is that the Bobcats still don't really have a 4 or 5 that is suited to cover more perimeter oriented bigs (M. Okur, R. Wallace, A. Bargnani, etc). Maybe they're hoping to get some of that out of A. Ajinca. I think that would be the best case scenario.
Posted by: BustaCat | Jul 1, 2008 11:19:30 PM
Great, can you imagine Oak and Diop on the floor at the same time? Scarecrows would catch more post entry passes and loose balls than those two. Other than that, solid pickup.
Posted by: BroD | Jul 1, 2008 11:47:11 PM
I played blackjack beside Diop at Palm in Vegas last year. Diop may need more than 2 million if he plays like he was that day. He was playing between 2-5K per hand. He was funny as hell getting mad at some summer league guys betting 25 a hand messing up and hitting on 16s.
I do like Diop and he's still young but I would rather have a power forward who can guard the guys Bustacat listed. Diop is too much like Nazr.
Posted by: Diopistheman | Jul 2, 2008 12:09:57 AM
Diop's value's probably going to be inflated because of the dearth of true centers in the market and the fact that Cuban really wants him back. There's no way we get him for the same price as Harrington.
I agree that our biggest need is a 4 that can defend out on the perimeter.
Posted by: Jared | Jul 2, 2008 8:02:00 AM
I've heard that Dallas might be using the MLE on him which would be in the $6MM range. However, they might decide to act more fiscally prudent, either way I think he gets at least $4MM and will be going for the MLE.
Posted by: Mason | Jul 2, 2008 8:40:25 AM
Diop is a good pick to help with rebounds and is a good defender at a reasonable price.
BUT, I agree w/Jared & BustaCats that we don't have an athleticn 4-5 that can guard those perimeter oriented big guys or that can shoot a consistent 15-17 footer and spread the floor.
That being said, I beleive we should consider James Jones, former Portland PF. He will cost a little more than Diop but Nazr & Diop are pretty much alike. Jones would fulfill two needs. Here is why:
1.) 8ppg-3rpg-44%FG-44%3P-88%FT-20mpg is very helpfull. He is a great shooter, better than Hermann and a lot more athletic.
2.) He can guard this athletic PF like J.Smith, R.Lewis, D.West, L.Odom, etc. And he's a big that can make Free Throws (IMPORTANT in this team).
3.) He's a great shooter that will spread the floor and open the perimeter so: Okafor, Felton and Wallace can play more 1 on 1 close to the basket and be more effective and STOP settling for those jump shots that killed us last season. Plus Richardson and Carrol will not get double and will have more open shots.
4.) Nazr can do Diops job maybe better; after all he has been a consistent 10ppg & 8rpg (per 20+mpg)during his career. With the new coach and a full season in the Bobcats system he could be a 12ppg-10rpg in 25mpg. Plus he still 30 yrs. that's young enough to complete the 2 yrs left in his contract sucessfully.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 2, 2008 8:40:30 AM
Does anyone know how many roster spots the Bobcats have available? It seems like the team has more than 15 players. I think 12 can be on the active roster. They may have to send Davidson and Weaver to the D-League or place someone on the injured reserve list.
Posted by: Token | Jul 2, 2008 8:47:40 AM
We also need a 3rd PG. Telfair is one of the best fit after Duhon, but they're both too expensive for a 3rd backup. The best way here is to go with Tyronn Lue or Damon Stoudamire.
Both are veterans over 10 yrs. that will agree to an affordable deal (1yr/$500K) and to be a 3rd backup since they have nothing better in the market. Plus they know they will get more playing time in the Bobcats than anywhere else.
I will prefer Damon Stoudamire, he has more experience he was an All Star and has a lot to teach Felton and Augustine, plus he have better stats and he is only 34. He can play 1 more year as 3rd PG very easy.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 2, 2008 9:00:32 AM
The Bobcats currently have 14 players:
If they get 1 more Big Guy and 1 more PG, they will have to send somebody (1 guy) to the D-League (Davidson, Ajinca or Weaver). The roster can have up to 15 players with 12 active players each night.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 2, 2008 9:09:09 AM
Can we send May to the D-league?
Posted by: apauldds | Jul 2, 2008 9:22:41 AM
Interesting that we have 4 centers, 2 of which are the same guy:
Posted by: apauldds | Jul 2, 2008 9:26:35 AM
I think we need to stop comparing Ajinca to Hollins. True, they are both lanky 7 footers, but from what it appears, Ajinca has more skill than Hollins. Hollins is in the league simply because he is tall w/ freakish athleticism. At times, it appears he has no skills whatsoever and is just out there jumping around. Sometimes you would think the guy has never even played basketball. Give Ajinca a chance before we compare him to Hollins.
Posted by: Bobcat Matt | Jul 2, 2008 9:46:30 AM
Alexis will not be in uniform opening night. I am not saying he won't pan out down the road, but this wasn't - I hope, given his stats in France - a pick to help now. He will be in a suit, at best, particpating in practice. The Bobcats need NBA ready players, Diop included.
Posted by: HJ | Jul 2, 2008 10:04:40 AM
scary trend forming with the draft and free agency for the bobcats. i believe every team needs balance on offense and defense and no matter how good you are at one if your roster is made up of defensive standouts and no offense you are doomed to fail at the most important time. boston played great defense all year, but never forgot to get shooters the ball like pierce and allen. garnett would get his points because he is a great player, but the point is that they REMEMBERED every game somebody has to score consistantly. with the draft we have playmaker(augustin) first offense second on this team. defense and boards first (ajinca) and maybe no scoring at all. then the free agents mentions so far(diop, turiaf, najarea, duhon) are all team players who play well but would not score much. i know richardson is our go to scorer and wallace will get his points, but the other "so-far" starters are not consistant scorers enough to leave those two as you standouts. fingers crossed morrison has a breakout year, and maybe MJLB is counting on just that, but points need to be just as important as defense. look to the reily-led knick teams of the early 90's. it only goes so far. then the other end of the spectrum would be the nash-led suns of recent. as long as we hear about some scorers mentioned as pick ups then i would feel better about the brown influence.
Posted by: brendan | Jul 2, 2008 10:10:14 AM
Diop would be a great sign. He's a big man who can add some toughness. I've always been a fan of Diop even though he's another offensively challenged player.
Dikembe Mutombo v2.0!
Posted by: Grant | Jul 2, 2008 10:25:42 AM
I kinda wish we could do a sign and trade for Maggette, Wallace for Maggette straight up. He and Richardson would be dyanmic on the wings and open up the floor for Felton and Augustin. Wouldn't solve the need for an athletic 4 who can shoot but Bobcats played much better last season when they had Richardson and Carrol spreading the floor and Maggette would be a significant upgrade over that line-up. I heard the Spurs are trying to sign him though.
Posted by: Mason | Jul 2, 2008 10:28:27 AM
Brendan, you're forgetting Caroll. Let's hope last season was a fluke and we get solid bench scorring with Morrison, Caroll and Dudley.
Posted by: apauldds | Jul 2, 2008 10:29:48 AM
Is Diop any different than Nazr Mohammed? They are both offensively limited players, known mostly for being decent defenders who can protect the rim. Personally, I'd rather have Diop, but I certainly don't want both on the same roster.
Posted by: PMK | Jul 2, 2008 11:21:12 AM
Solid point about James Jones RobC, though I don't know much about him his game kind of resembles Walter's. If he does play bigger than Walter and can improve his rebounding he'd be a decent pick up.
If we keep both Felton and DJ I really don't see a PG like Lue or Damon Stoudamire coming to us. If they're going to settle for 3rd string it'll probably be for a contender.
I hear everyone's going after Maggette so it probably leaves us out. Wallace would probably love to play w/ the Clip though. A front line of Kaman, Brand, and Wallace with the possibility of Baron at the point looks pretty good.
Posted by: Jared | Jul 2, 2008 11:22:01 AM
Rob, James Jones is NOT a PF. He'd get destroyed every time any of those PFs you list posted him up.
Further, Mohammed cannot play enough minutes to be as productive as you want. Throughout the course of his ENTIRE career, he's never been able to play more than 26 MPG. He was 24 then; he's 31 now. Between his propensity for dumb fouls and his lack of stamina, he'll never be a consistent double-double threat.
Finally, NO, sending a player to the D-league is not an option if we sign more than 15 players. You only get 15 total players under contract once the season starts.
app, sadly, May cannot be sent down. He's got more than two years of NBA "experience."
Brendan, we'll get help if Augustin actually has the ability to get Okafor shots. Your top FG% man should be better than 4th on the team in shots, particularly if the guy in 3rd (Felton) makes shoots 12% worse.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jul 2, 2008 11:38:14 AM
The only way trading Wallace will make sense, is by getting Maggette. He is an upgrade to Wallace, not a huge one but a good one.
Still I don't think he will be interested in coming to the Bobcats when he has received interest from the Spurs, Celtics & Dallas.
How will the Bobcats Look:
Felton > 14ppg-3rpg-8apg
Richardson > 22ppg-5rpg-3apg
Maggette > 22ppg-6rpg-3apg
Okafor > 15ppg-12ppg-2bpg (LB effect,I hope)
Mohamed > 10ppg-8rpg-1bpg
Wow, good stats for a starting 5:
BTW, Maggette & Wallace's stats are very similar, so, this is possible with Wallace instead of Maggette. (But under L.Brown not S.Vincent)
If we can get 25ppg-10rpg-6apg from the bench it would be a dream come true.
We're talking about:
105-110ppg,40-45rpg & 20-25apg
Augustin/(Telfair? or Lue?)
Under Larry Brown I will expect to see an improvement on defense & teamwork. So, if we keep opponents to 101ppg-40rpg-20apg (same as last season)or better.
YEAH!!! We are actually a Winning team an a contender.
I hope this is not too good to be true. The stats I used are very realistic and more than possible, expected.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 2, 2008 11:51:46 AM
who is this guy, he is listed as a charlotte bobcat team member?
Posted by: brendan | Jul 2, 2008 12:17:25 PM
Procton, about James Jones I havent seen too much from him, but what I've seen so far is descent enough. I've seen him as a PF in Portland plus he is listed as a PF.
No he is not the best in the market, but good enouhg to help.
As for Nazr, even if his stats remain as they have: 10ppg-8rpg-20mpg along his career, he is same or better than most of the starting Centers in the league.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 2, 2008 12:18:45 PM
I'm not sure but I think he played for the D-League at the team supported by the Bobcats. I also think he played in last season's Summer league with the Bobcats.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 2, 2008 12:22:48 PM
Rob, when you start throwing all those hypothetical numbers around then it is most likely too good to be true.
You are also overestimating the value of Nazr. He is not a 10ppg and 8rpg guy. He's a 7ppg and 5rpg guy. He's an upgrade to what we had before but still not worth his contract. If we pick up any servicable front court player with a reasonable contract the first thing we need to do is look at getting rid of Nazr.
Posted by: Jared | Jul 2, 2008 1:34:55 PM
If we hadn't traded Walter Hermann's expiring contract for Nazr's overpriced remaining 2 years, we'd be able to sign Diop or another decent defensive minded center.
RobC, You can't take individual stats, mix them together, and assume that is an accurate estimate at the team averages for the next season. This is the type of logic that got us into the mess we're in now.
Why don't we give Wallace a chance under a coach who actually knows how to teach team defense? Look what happened to the Celtics when they brought in a well known defensive assitant? They even made Ray Allen look like a good defender.
Posted by: PMK | Jul 2, 2008 1:49:55 PM
It seems that, outside of Elton Brand, there's not really anyone that would add a whole lot to our front court in the free agent market. The best case scenario is that Hollins, Ajinca, May, and Mohammed can provide the production and depth we need. But there are other options.
Seattle just got through drafting DJ White, Devon Hardin, and Serge Ibaka, adding to a frontcourt that already included Collison, Wilcox, Robert Swift, Saer Sene, Johan Petro, and Donyell Marshall. I'm not advocating picking up just anyone, but if Wilcox or Collison became available I think it would address our needs brilliantly (especially Wilcox, but I'm just dreaming about that one I think).
There are some restricted free agents that might be nice, Carl Landry or either Josh from ATL (Smith or Childress) but I think we'll be doing most of our whole plugging from the group we already have.
By the way, Weaver hasn't been signed yet and him being a second rounder means nothing is guaranteed.
Posted by: BustaCat | Jul 2, 2008 2:03:03 PM
Hmmm, why doesn't Okafor get more shots. Let me think about this one. Is it because a) He is terrible at the pick and roll b) has no jump shot c) has an average at best post up game and terrible one on one moves or d) all of the above. I am going to go w/ D all of the above. I found it interesting that the team actually had a positive point differential last season w/o him in the line-up and a negative one w/ him.
Posted by: Mason | Jul 2, 2008 2:53:20 PM
having mentioned the seattle/okc options before i will return to the topic of okafor being our best trade chip. sign him for 4 yrs 40 mill/ 10 per) and move him:
bobcats get wilcox, marshall, and ridenour
sonics get okafor, may, and carrol
PG felton, augustin, ridenour
SG richardson, morrison, weaver
SF wallace, dudley
PF wilcox, marshall, davidson
C mohammad, ajinca, hollins
go after a UFA of the likes of a fred jones or bostjan nachbar to add a total of 15. activate all except for weaver, ajinca, and send davidson to the d-league and you have your 12 man active roster with the two picks on the inactive list.
mohammad would play inside/rebound, wilcox outside shooting and defense, and the bench is vastly improved with vets like marshall and ridenour. morrison gets his shot at primary bench scorer/spot starter.
Posted by: brendan | Jul 2, 2008 3:53:07 PM
I don't know why I bother answering these trade ideas from brendan but I just can't help myself.
You want to give up our only good and proven post defender who averages a double double and our best outside shooter for Wilcox(decent but lesser talent than Okafor) Marshall(the next Othella Harrington) and Luke's 6 points and 4 assist per game????
We lose our best post player and best shooter for lesser talent? Not to mention you throw May in there who has a chance to be just as effective as Wilcox. Even if May rides the bench for another year(which I admit is very possible) this trade isn't worth it.
Posted by: Jared | Jul 2, 2008 4:05:13 PM
"Sources told ESPN.com that Diop, traded by the Mavericks to New Jersey in February as part of the Jason Kidd deal, will receive the Mavericks' full mid-level exception in a five-year deal starting at nearly $6 million." - ESPN.com
Glad we didn't sign him, he isn't worth that kind of money, but I guess Dallas really wanted him back.
Posted by: Yeah? | Jul 2, 2008 4:15:04 PM
Diop commited to Dallas
Posted by: ADR | Jul 2, 2008 4:50:51 PM
Brendan, Deji Akindele came with us to training camp last year. We're just his most recent team.
Rob, James Jones has played less than 8% of his minutes at PF in the last three years, and most of those came when he was in Phoenix. He was at 3% of his minutes at the position last year in Portland. ESPN may list him as a PF, but he ain't one.
Further, if Mohammed deserves $6 mil a year for being in the top 20 among centers, I should never EVER hear anybody complaining about Wallace's salary again. Also interesting, he's never gone for 10-8 in his whole career. The last time he was even close was 01-02, and most NBA journeymen don't get better as they approach their mid-30s.
Mason, you forgot the most important choice: e. Raymond Felton can't run an offense or feed the post to save his life.
Oh, and by the way, we had a negative point differential whether he was on or off the court, but don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jul 2, 2008 4:57:59 PM
Rick, you should really consider looking into getting some new sources. Yet again have you reported something and now, even faster than ever, it turns out to be the exact opposite or an impossibility.
Your sources are ruining your credibility.
Posted by: Someone | Jul 2, 2008 4:59:40 PM
How was Bonnell wrong? The fact that the Mavericks resigned Diop doesn't mean the Bobcats weren't interested "at an affordable price," precisely as was reported. Oh, and by the way, your unwillingness to even stake your name to your attacks is ruining your credibility.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jul 2, 2008 5:08:02 PM
I'm not saying Mohamed is worth $6M/Yr. But as we all know, in the NBA 95% of Centers are overpaid. What I wanted to say is that he brings more than what Diop can bring to the Bobcats or the same (worst case scenario). Also in 04-05 he's stats were 11-8 pg while with the Knicks, then he was traded to the Spurs where his minutes were cut by 35% still he was 6-6. Plus last year while with the B-cats he was 9-7 with Sam Inconsistent. With L.Brown he can turn 10-8 very easy or stay between 7-5 & 9-7 for the rest of his contract in 20 minutes.
Yes he is overpaid as 95% of the Big Guys in this league are. You are correct in that aspect.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 2, 2008 5:16:03 PM
All this trade and free agent talk, while interesting, I feel is not relevant given the talent out there, money available, and roster we have to work with.
Best case scenario, May isn't hurt anymore, Okafor gets lowballed by some other team allowing the Bobcats to keep him at a more affordable rate than what we offered last year, Augustine ends up being a nice pickup, eventually leading Felton into more of a combo guard backup position (where I think he might be really effective), Morrison shows that he belongs in the NBA, and Larry Brown doesn't freak out on us. Oh yeah, Gerald needs to stay healthy and accept less -iso sets.
That being said, can Bonnell tap his "sources" to find out who the 'Cats will be inviting to summer league? Let's get a roster together Rick!
Posted by: BustaCat | Jul 2, 2008 5:27:26 PM
I'd like to see them give Goldwire a shot in the summer league
Posted by: matt | Jul 2, 2008 6:19:43 PM
Procton, Felton was not given the chance last year to be the fulltime point guard. Give the kid a chance, I know you have a beef with UNC after your glorious 1 year. As far as people not using their full name their are alot of NUTS out there and I would not post with a full name for safety reasons.
Posted by: JD | Jul 2, 2008 8:22:40 PM
Felton has been given chance after chance. Do you think the Bobcats were TRYING to make the team worse? The only reason Jeff McInnis is starting ahead of you is you're not a very good POINT GUARD.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jul 2, 2008 8:29:05 PM
just thought everyone who follows sports would enjoy this site.. a sports betting website that lets you bet for free, once you make more than $10, you can cash out.. it's fun if you're knowledgable.
Posted by: MG | Jul 2, 2008 9:05:02 PM
I agree with JD. In today's age people can use info against you. And I don't mean in a arguing-about-basketball-on-a-blog kind of way.
How does not posting your name make you loose credibility? If you know what you are talking about then you know what you are talking about. Credibility is built on reputation. Advertising yourself as "Michael Procton" doesn't make you more credible because you are willing to put your real name on the internet.
Credibility is lost if you are constantly wrong.
Posted by: Yeah? | Jul 3, 2008 12:23:26 AM
I agree with JD. In today's age people can use info against you. And I don't mean in an arguing-about-basketball-on-a-blog kind of way.
How does not posting your name make you lose credibility? If you know what you are talking about then you know what you are talking about. Credibility is built on reputation. Advertising yourself as "Michael Procton" doesn't make you more credible because you are willing to put your real name on the internet.
Credibility is lost if you are constantly wrong.
Posted by: Yeah? | Jul 3, 2008 12:24:38 AM
Could we really trade Felton for David Lee? If so, could we trade Okafor for Beno Udrih and draft picks? If so, and we signed Chris Duhon and Desanga Diop, I think we'd be pterry formidable. Under this scenario our 1st team would probably be Udrih, Richardson, Wallace, Lee, and Mohammed. 2nd team: Duhon, Carroll, Dudley, Davidson, and Diop. 3rd team: Augustin, Morrison, May, Ajinca, and Hollins, with Morrison and May moving up in the rotation when they prove they can stay healthy.
Posted by: Armchair GM | Jul 3, 2008 4:50:07 AM
Procton, felton has been a servicable PG, not the best by any means but not a bust. Why is Mcinnis gone and felton still here? As far as yeah stated putting your full name on the blog is not too bright, ever hear of idenity theft it is pretty common, Can you please post your social # next
Posted by: JD | Jul 3, 2008 8:42:12 AM
Diop has made a verbal commitment (as reported by espn) to the Mavs, they have offered him the MLE. A FA PG I think we should take a look at for a 3rd option is Royal Ivey. He should be available for pretty cheap.
Posted by: Patrick | Jul 3, 2008 9:34:18 AM
Procton posts his full name so we all know how bold and courageous he is, but don't google him or look at his facebook profile because he'll get uncomfortable and start making homophobic comments. He's a confused young man.
Armchair. Your trade proposals aren't realistic but even if they were I honestly don't like that team. Even if we could get Udrih(doubtful since Scato was so keen on getting him signed) he's not worth losing our only good post player. Diop is a good players but will command more money than he's worth(already has from the Mavs). Lee is a rising hustle guy but he's never been a starter, you think he's ready to take over for Okafor?
Also, I don't expect Duhon to sign on to a team with a starting PG in place and a lottery PG expecting to get a lot of burn. I may be wrong but I don't expect any of the FA PG's of any significance(Duhon, Damon Staudamire, Tyron Lue) to sign w/ us and become a 3rd stringer.
Posted by: Jared | Jul 3, 2008 9:46:50 AM
What do you guy's think the impact of Michael saying they wanted to trade Wallace and replace Raymond will have on the team chemistry?
Posted by: Chris G. | Jul 3, 2008 10:40:08 AM
Mohammed, Diop, Lee, Dudley, Davidson and May are all above average in the post (some better offensively and some defensively) and Lee and Davidson can guard 4's, unlike Okafor.
Having Okafor as a PF on our team is not unlike having Mugsy Bogues be your PG. It skewes everything else you have to do because just like Bogues not being able to guard opposing PG's, Okafor can't guard the taller, longer, more mobile, and more agile PF's that the league is moving towards. Lee can, and does in NYC. He doesn't start because they have Zach Randolph.
Plus, if we move Felton (who is NOT a pass first PG) we only have an unproven rookie to run the show. Why wouldn't PG's who are confident in their skills want to come here to prove themselves for a year while the rookie learns the ropes?
Under my scenario the 1st and 2nd teams each would have a PG who passes first, a center who rebounds and blocks shots, 2 scorers, and hustle guy who will do whatever dirtywork need doing. As a bonus, we would have a 3rd team with loads of potential and extra draft picks from the Okafor for Udrih trade.
It would be a win, win, win situation.
Posted by: Armchair GM | Jul 3, 2008 11:45:26 AM
You guys are totally right...that's why millions of people the world over have their full names...in the phone book.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jul 3, 2008 12:16:57 PM
Procton,the point was this day and time their are alot of KOOKS out there and it does not matter if you use full name or alias. Credibility is what matters but the way that you constantly belittle people who disagree with you I would be hesitant to use a full name but then again credibility has never been one of your stronger suits.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 3, 2008 1:57:46 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't describe Procton as a credible source either
Posted by: Yeah? | Jul 3, 2008 3:26:20 PM
Procton, you seem like a worthless troll who hangs around on these boards spewing out anti-UNC garbage and nothing really positive about the team.
As for posting my real name, I could if I wanted to, but why should I? I'm not bound by any rules for naming here. It doesn't give me any credibility nor does it take away from it. Your phone book analogy was extremely week. Take Mark Twain for example, that wasn't his real name. What about George Eliot? The name actually belonged to a woman. A name is an identity, something that makes ones recognizable. If you don't want to be recognized, you don't have to have a name. You should probably look into an alias because your popularity/reputation is awful.
Posted by: Someoneagain | Jul 3, 2008 3:37:00 PM
Frankly, I don't give a damn about the opinion of someone who comes on a website to anonymously attack others. That takes a lot of class and courage.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jul 3, 2008 3:44:52 PM
You obviously do care since you come to an old blog and reply to what I have to say.
Besides, I read these blogs whenever their posted. If I decide to comment, it's because I have something to say. You sir, instigated this by making a smartass comment on my anonymity.
Posted by: Someone | Jul 3, 2008 5:29:43 PM
Someone, Procton is a classic underachiever who just cannot handle the truth and contradicts himself more than his facts are actual.
Posted by: Ht | Jul 3, 2008 5:53:06 PM
Armchair, I disagree completely with your comments. Nazr, and Davidson are not above average. Davidson was a second round pick last year and barely played on a bad team. Nazr is ok, but not worth the contract and certainly not as good as Okafor. What are you basing these opinions on?
I agree that Lee's a good player but he does not replace Okafor. May is a good player as well but you should know by now that we can't count on him to be healthy. I think there's a good chance he will but we can't take it as a given.
Diop is unavailable and most people have known that for a couple days now. Dudley is a small forward and would have just as much trouble as Wallace guarding 4's. None of the players that you listed can replace Okafor. You seem to be overvaluing a lot of generic level players or misunderstanding their positions. Okafor has plenty of size to be a power forward by the way and Lee is listed as being an inch shorter.
I made my comments about the PG's under the assumption that both Felton and DJ being on the roster, so you're right with only DJ then a decent PG would probably want to sign w/ us. But I'd still rather have Felton and DJ than DJ and Telefair or Lue.
I'd be ok with most any player on the team being traded as long as we get a balanced roster with equal quality players back.
Posted by: Jared | Jul 3, 2008 8:50:41 PM
Okafor is not a 4, that's why they can't play him with Mohammed. He has Karl Malone type size, so you are correct about him looking the part. However, he lacks the footspeed and lateral quickness to play the 4 and must remain near the rim (both offensively and defensively) to be effective. Problem is, he doesn't have legitimate 5 size, hence my Mugsy Bogues reference.
As far as pointing out that we have decent post players, I wasn't suggesting that Dudley was a 4. I was stating that he has good post-up skills, a fact the was mentioned often last year. The coaching staff and management also was quoted as saying they were high on Davidson's post skills and he is a legitimate 4.
Finally, don't confuse above average with All-Star status - I was referring to post skills, not a players all-around ability. As a matter of fact, Dudley and May both suffer the same limitations and liabilities as Okafor. I know they play different positions so don't use that in your counter argument - that fact is well known but extraneous. What is germain to the central problem all three face is that they have skill sets suited to taller, bidgger players. Dudley and May are much cheaper that Okafor though, as is Lee, and Lee is a true 4 so you can play him with whoever we have at center - something we can't do with Okafor.
Posted by: Armchair GM | Jul 4, 2008 1:13:28 AM
I'd rather have Udrih and Duhon than Felton and Augustin, but to paraphrase the most verbose of all football coaches - we have who we have:)
Posted by: Armchair GM | Jul 4, 2008 1:15:29 AM
I've always agreed that Okafor plays more like a center and that him and Nazr create sort of a log jam in the middle. But Nazr is an undersized center as well, and has less skill. So giving up our best post player(whether he's playing the 4 or the 5 he's still our best in the post) doesn't make sense when you're only getting back a second string hustle guy. Lee may turn into a starter in this league but Okafor already is. They do play different positions but you lose a lot of talent getting rid of Oka and bringing in Lee. A front line of Nazr and Lee is hardly ideal.
I can agree that Dudley is a good player and has post up skills. But if we both understand that he's a 3 and not a 4 there is no point in mentioning him as being able to replace Okafor. Maybe he has better post skills for his position, but he can't play Okafor's position so he shouldn't be mentioned as a reason why we can afford to get rid of Okafor. Can he guard centers? Can he block anyone's shot in the lane? No that's a center's job. They don't play the same position so don't belong in the same conversation.
I agree that May's good when healthy but you should know by now that we can't count on him to be healthy so he's until the season starts and we see what he can do he's out of the conversation as well.
I don't care what management says about Davidson. I agree that he's the more mobile body but I haven't seen anything from him that makes me thing he's ready to play big minutes. He's not replacing Oka.
What I'm saying is that none of the players you're touting as being productive in our front court bring the same talent and skill as Okafor does. I'd love to upgrade the 4 and have him move to the 5, or trade him for an upgrade at 4, but there's not that much available that's better than what we already have.
As far as the PG's, we have Felton and DJ. There's no reason to down grade that to Tyron Lue(career backup) or Staudamire(aging backup) and DJ. Felton isn't the best PG, he's not an allstar, but he's better than any of the REALISTIC options you proposed at PG. Udrih would be a nice pick up, but as I pointed out, he's not a realistic option so should be out of the conversation.
Posted by: Jared | Jul 4, 2008 10:09:38 AM
No player that I have mentioned has been signed by another team yet - at most there have been verbal commitments but that's it. Additionally, I am discussing the team as a whole not player for player swaps. I would never argue that Dudley replaces Okafor and no one in their right mind would think I was. Our low post offense does not HAVE to come from the 4 or 5 and I would be comfortable with our low post defense being held down by the 5's that I mentioned (Mohammed, Diop). Nothing we suggest on these boards will ever happen anyway, it's all just pure speculation. Fun to imagine though:)
Posted by: Armchair GM | Jul 4, 2008 12:12:51 PM
You did suggest that we give up our best post player in Okafor without getting a player close to his talent back. Diop is unavailable. You're right it's not official yet but don't expect it to happen.
I have to disagree with you, our low post play DOES have to come from the 4 and 5. Well, I guess it doesn't have to, but if you want the team to be anything close to good you probably want your best post players to be the 4 and the 5, you know the guys who actually play in the post.
You didn't explicitly say that Dudley replaces Okafor, but I'm just wondering why you mentioned him at all when the issue for me was all about giving up Okafor and not getting a good 4 or 5 back. Even bringing him up in that context made me think you were saying we didn't need Okafor because we have Dudley and Davidson. Is that not what you were saying? Why else would you bring them up as a reason that we can afford to lose Okafor?
I agree that we have this discussion all in good fun, but I try to be realistic about the team's options as well. Have a great holiday!
Posted by: Jared | Jul 4, 2008 2:00:11 PM
Leaving your roster recomendations aside, I would like to defend one the greatest Charlotte basketball players of all time, Tyrone "Muggsy" Bogues.
First off, your comparison with Okafor on the basis of their both being undersized is laughable. Okafor is "undersized" by 1 or 2 inches (of course, that doesn't stop him from being one of the best rebounders and rim-defenders in the league). Muggsy was undersized by at least 7 inches.
Second, the old Hornets rarely had to adjust their defensive gameplan to cover Bogues because the refs would let him take the knees out from under anyone that tried to post him.
Third, you have to evaluate what a player brings, positive and negative, to the court. What Muggsy lacked in height he more than made up for in steals, assists, and ball-handling (never turned the ball over).
I wouldn't care if Okafor were 4'3", as long as he blocks shots and rebounds he is a great fit at the 5 (and an indespensable part of this franchise).
Posted by: BeustaCat | Jul 4, 2008 2:21:15 PM
To the guy saying we should have Udrih instead of Felton. Here's what Hollinger thinks of Ud:
Udrih had a nice run as the Kings' emergency replacement at the point this past season, but that's the whole point: He was seen as a success mainly because the expectations were so low. Sacramento signed him as roster filler and was pleasantly surprised when it turned out he actually could play a little.
That doesn't mean the Kings should pay him the full midlevel for a half-decade, though. Udrih is 26 and a career 43.9 percent shooter. The most similar players at the same age are Vonteego Cummings, Khalid Reeves and Doug Overton, and his projected PER for 2008-09 comes in at 12.99. He's a good backup, but that's about it.
Posted by: Areyoukiddingme? | Jul 5, 2008 4:31:55 PM
Raymond Felton is 24 and is a career 39.6% shooter. HIS most similar players are William Averitt and Michael Dickerson. Not that I'm saying...I'm just saying.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jul 5, 2008 7:21:10 PM
I think michael jordan made a big mistake informing the public about possibly trading gerald wallace on draft night. i think the chemistry with gerald and the team will be screwed up now. Sean may will play 30 games this year before retiring officially from the nba due to injuries.
Posted by: BIG TEE | Jul 5, 2008 11:57:10 PM
Chris Quinn, Stephon Marbury, Drew Gooden, Roger Mason, Derek Fisher, Fabricio Oberto, Rodney Stuckey, Antonio Daniels, Andreas Nocioni, Luther Head, James Jones, Jared Dudley, Carlos Delfino, Bobby Jackson, and Kelenna Azubuike.
The list of all the players with higher PER's than Udrih and lower than Felton's. They're actually pretty close to each other, but doesn't make Udrih seem all that much better does it?
Posted by: just saying... | Jul 6, 2008 6:52:54 PM
I've certainly never said Udrih is the answer. But naming a bunch of crappy players (the majority of whom aren't even starters) to lump in with Felton and Beno doesn't help the cause much either.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Jul 6, 2008 9:22:35 PM
Maybe Augustin will be the player we need at the point - someone who passes 1st and shoots 2nd. Either way, I still maintain that we should trade Okafor and stop kidding ourselves about him being a player to build a team around. We don't need someone with the skills of a 5 and the body of a 4 trying to play either position. If we could get players and picks of value I say trade Okafor, Felton, May, and Morrison...
Posted by: Armchair GM | Jul 6, 2008 9:58:27 PM
I was responding to the person who DID say that Udrih was the answer.
Listing those players does put the Felton and Udrih comparison into perspective, which is all I was trying to do.
Posted by: what? | Jul 7, 2008 3:35:23 PM
I understand your criticism of Okafor, but if we do get rid of him it'll have be a trade that clearly makes the team better. I don't think a starting front court of Lee and Nazr, as you've suggested in the past, does that.
Posted by: Jared | Jul 7, 2008 4:58:39 PM
Hell I'd trade the whole team if it made the team better, but it's easier said than done.
Posted by: Jared | Jul 7, 2008 4:59:32 PM
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