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October 14, 2008
Time to trade a jump-shooter?
I buy that Adam Morrison didn't play against the Atlanta Hawks and Matt Carroll played little Monday because Bobcats coach Larry Brown needed to get another look at Andre Brown and Shannon Brown before trimming the roster.
However, that's probably not the whole story.
Brown has made it clear he has an over-abundance of jump-shooters and is short of players who think defense-rebounds-loose balls first. The two reserves best equipped to do that, based on the preseason so far, are Jared Dudley and Andre Brown.
In the first two exhibitions, losses in Orlando and Memphis, the Bobcats had five fewer rebounds and seven more turnovers than their opponents. So that's six extra possessions per game for the opponent. A team that defends poorly and shoots poorly (both from the field and the foul line) can't afford to give away all those extra possessions.
So I'm thinking if Dudley and Andre Brown can get back the ball, they'll be rewarded with minutes. And those minutes figure to come from Morrison, Carroll and starting power forward Sean May.
Beyond that, I have to believe Larry Brown is lobbying the front office to find an experienced veteran to rebound and defend. Would the front office give up a jump-shooter to make that happen? Interesting question.
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Comments
Hey look, Bonnell learned how to type in normal 12 point font! Good job!
We may want to trade a jump shooter, but who's gonna want who we have? Carroll is making too much money for most teams' tastes, and we couldn't trade Morrison or May for a burlap sack right now.
Posted by: Hater | Oct 14, 2008 8:45:15 AM
who is available? who could you see us going after?
Posted by: john | Oct 14, 2008 9:26:14 AM
Really, it's FINALLY time to trade a jump shooter?!?! Bonnell, I'm not a hater and tend not to respond to that many posts from anyone, but this one is a bit off base. Why wasn't it time to draft one when one was available during the draft with either of our picks? Why was it not time when everyone knew "Hot-plate" May wasn't in shape and probably will never get his lard a_s in shape?? The physical, mental and genetic make-up of this squad is so flawd! At this point we have to play with what we got BUT it was "finally time", quite some time ago.
Where's my man procton, I'm sure he'll have a field day with this one.
Posted by: dtnnc | Oct 14, 2008 10:29:24 AM
So you're saying they didn't need another point guard? It's that much harder to find a point than it is to find a power forward. For all the lather about taking Augustin over Brook Lopez, plenty of scouts (not Bobcats scouts, scouts around the league) told me Lopez and Okafor would have struggled to play together because neither can guard an athletic power forward out along the perimeter.
And by the way: I wasn't advocating them trading a shooter. I was saying that when you look at this roster, it seems something the front office will consider sooner or later.
Posted by: rick bonnell | Oct 14, 2008 11:57:50 AM
It does look like it's time to move some pieces with this roster. The East is getting better and the best way to compete will be to improve defensively.
There are a lot of guys on the roster that can score, yet there's an obvious imbalance caused by an abundance of jump shooters. The Ryan Hollins and Jermareo Davidson projects look frozen in progress. Ajinca looks destined for some D League stretches, so if a player with a style of play oriented in the paint is available in exchange for a jump shooter - why not?
Morrison, Carroll, May, and Shannon Brown lack any solid inside capabilities on offense or defense, so they should all be candidates for an upcoming trade. Brown has 0 value on the exchange market, while the other guys are all mentionable at the least.
Teams have scouted Carroll and game planned for him, so I wouldn't doubt that a "contender" in need of a reserve sharp shooter may have some interest.
Posted by: Baseline | Oct 14, 2008 12:38:04 PM
Lemme guess... these" plenty of scouts (not Bobcats scouts, scouts around the league)" are the same scouts that said draft Adam Morrison over Rudy Gay or Brandon Roy???
Posted by: dtnnc | Oct 14, 2008 12:38:39 PM
OKC Thunder is where we should focus our trade efforts. We could easily use Chis Wilcox or Nick Collison. OKC has a log jam at 4 and not a lot of shooters on the wings...
Ding Ding Ding!!
Posted by: dtnnc | Oct 14, 2008 1:09:38 PM
We need a versatile low post scorer, not another guy who just rebounds and defends. Okafor, Dudley and Mohammed do that, Ajinca may be able to do that. Andre Brown is doing that. We need a reliable scorer with a polished post up and mid range game. Thats the piece we're missing. The whole team cannot be those "glue guys" who can't score, but that seems to be what Brown wants. I don't think we have any moveable pieces who could get us a reliable low post scorer, much less anything decent in return. With so many teams desperate for a PG during the last draft, we should have moved the lotto pick for a proven big. Brown is also greatly overrating the jumpshooting ability of this team. Maybe they hit shots in practice, but they have a hard time knocking down open jumpers in games. Every shot can't be a layup, and if your bigs can't score or hit a shot outside of 2 ft then spreading the floor to get in the lane becomes much more difficult(I wonder if he realizes that Rasheed Wallace's perimeter shooting makes it much easier for Detroits guards to get to the basket). Aside from J-Rich and Carroll we're a garbage jumpshooting team, and Carroll isn't even getting to play and Brown doesn't want J-Rich taking outside shots, despite killing it from long range last season. The NBA is a finesse game. You need quality jumpshooters and polished low post scorers to win. There are teams with 2 or 3 bigs who are more gifted scorers than our best low post scorer(and pretty much all of those teams are contenders). Anyone with a decent work ethic and some athleticism can be taught to play good D, no need to trade away players for that, we just need the guys we have who can score to play better D. Morrison and Carroll might not be cabale of playing great D, but who are you gonna trade them for? I don't think Brown fully understands why he won a championship.
Posted by: Eddie | Oct 14, 2008 1:37:42 PM
How long has this roster been terribly unbalanced? For as long as I can remember. Was Vincent bad? Sure, but we haven't had a legit #1 PG since '06, much less a quality veteran backup. We've got no banger in the post outside of Okafor, and the aquisition of Mohammed did nothing to fix that. At this point, there's little we can give away that would get us anything in return. A guy like Al Harrington, who can rebound, play in the post, AND hit a mid-range or three-point jumper, would be PERFECT for this team. A guy like Brook Lopez, who can bang in the paint, play solid hustle defense, and rebound, would be a WONDERFUL addition off the bench. Sadly, though, we've got no way to get the first and we blew our chance to get the second.
H, Matt Carroll is paid at precisely the rate that most sixth men do...is the contract too long? Yes, but the salary itself isn't the problem.
Now, on to one positive note. It's very early and the sample size is very small, but our FT% seems to be up. After marks of 71%, 73%, 73%, and 71% over our first four seasons, our current mark of 78% would be a MAJOR improvement, and could win or keep us in quite a few more games. Particularly exciting is Okafor's 78% performance so far, which would improve on his career-high by 13%.
I get beat on for "bashing" UNC players, but here's something I know is true...this team will NOT win if we have two starters combine to go 22% from the field as Felton and May have thus far in the preseason. Whether May's conditioning is the issue or not, there isn't long to get it fixed, and, as I've said time and time again, he simply hasn't shown the drive and the desire to fix that kind of problem.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Oct 14, 2008 1:38:29 PM
The Bobcats did the right thing by selecting Augustin over Lopez. Lopez may have a respectable career, but he is a carbon copy of Okafor. I am sure the Bobcats knew they wanted to sign Emeka to a long term deal. Consequently, Augustin was the best selection because his skill set fills a need.
I'm pretty sure Hollins and Davidson are signed to one year deals. They could be packaged together with a shooter to get a defensive 4 or 5. There should be some teams interested in those expiring contracts. I really don't want the Cats to make any roster moves, but they may have to if the current big men don't get it together.
Posted by: Token | Oct 14, 2008 1:46:35 PM
I still say bring in villanueva he has all the athletic tools and would complement a guy like okafor. The guy can knock down the three ball, shoot midrange, low post score and most importantly is a great offensive rebounder(check stats in mins.) When the bobcats used oak and primo for a while it worked and that was primo yall. Vill has a tremedous upside compared to a player like primo. Not to mention he can take a guy of the dribble and stopnpop or throw one down. He just really got lowballed on the timing of that injury and the drafting of the china dude. Now imagine the bobcats one the first two seasons without a consistent scorer. Now you have j-rich and a could have a lineup of
Oak
vill
wallace
rich
Aug eventually
The glue players would fill in for vill while one or 2 scorers off the bench.
With all that said though I hear that milsap from utah may also be out there along with aldridge from portland(injury to webster quotes them saying the need a defensive minded small foward(wallace for aldridge)
Posted by: faulk | Oct 14, 2008 2:37:04 PM
faulk : Too late to scoop up Chuck Newhouse (aka Charlie Villanueva), when the Bucks gave up on the experiment known as Yi, Chuck got his starting gig back at the "4". Odds are when he wasn't playing last season we could've gotten Newhouse for Sean May, a gallon of sweet tea and some Chinese Checkers...
At this point, we'd have a better shot at Aldridge or Wilcox.
Posted by: dtnnc | Oct 14, 2008 2:48:22 PM
I don't think it's so much about "jump shooters". We just have too many Wing Players. And serious Bobcat fans have been crying for MJ to trade a Wing for a Okafor-complimenting big man ALL SUMMER LONG.
Anybody who's seen Morrison's best games from his ONE season knows that he has some driving ability off of screens and swing passes. I'd like to think that Larry Brown hasn't given up on him 2 games back from ACL reconstruction.
And regarding Matt Carroll: The guy can absolutely bury 3's. Is there NO ROOM in Larry Brown's universe for that capability? It's not like Carroll is shy about driving to the hoop or trying hard on defense either.
To Token and others who already assume that Augustin was the right selection:
Brook Lopez does not entirely complement Okafor, but he is definitely not a carbon copy of him. He proved that he could post up, draw fouls, and knock down free throws at a high level of college basketball. It will only be a matter of time before he does this in the NBA.
If Lopez becomes a ten-year starter and DJ Augustin stays a 5'11" career backup, did we really draft the right player at #9? Time will tell. Lopez had impressive numbers in his first game, but DJ's stat-line against the Hawks wasn't so bad. We won't know the answer to this for a while.
Posted by: DeLaQuest | Oct 14, 2008 3:36:10 PM
And I mentioned this on another thread, but it bears repeating:
(Like most, I've only been able to see the Magic game so far.)
Jared Dudley was repeatedly burned by Orlando scorers in the second half. Even shooting guard Mikeal Pietrus posted him up for 2. Dudley might hustle and rebound, but his lack of length will prevent him from being a good defender over the long haul.
Posted by: DeLaQuest | Oct 14, 2008 3:40:08 PM
The idea above about Wilcox (as well as Aldridge) sound like viable options for the right price. Let's move a shooter and get one of those guys.
Eddie's above comment about the NBA being a "finesse game" is just outlandish. Finesse might get the Suns a few wins, but Amare's dunks get the other 40. Finesse might get Kobe ten points, but driving and taking hard fouls gets another dozen. Finesse might work for Duke, but it does nothing in the pros. Finesse is worthless in the Playoffs.
The only way the 'Cats are going to smell the Playoffs is if they toughen up and compete in the paint. That opens up things for the shooters, but those shooters have to be able to play defense.
Otherwise, we'll finesse Dwight Howard to 30+ points each time we see Orlando.
Let's get OKC on the phone and make a deal!
Posted by: Baseline | Oct 14, 2008 3:57:35 PM
DLQ, Augustin will be our starter by the end of the season. He's a better playmaker, has better shooting touch, and cares about making his teammates better than Felton has ever thought about.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Oct 14, 2008 4:31:06 PM
Procton,
Augustin overtaking Felton by season's end?
Quite possibly so. But to me, that says more about Felton than DJ, ya know?
I still don't know if that warrants a ninth pick over Bayless/Lopez for the longterm.
DJ could be the, most fundamentally sound point guard in existence, but he looked a slight-framed child standing next to little Jameer Nelson the other night. That worries me. It's not like he has Nate Robinson athleticism.
Posted by: DeLaQuest | Oct 14, 2008 5:19:11 PM
I am sorry, Bob and I were drunk during the draft and we drafted from the wrong list.
I was shut up in a room because Bob would not pay me an appearance fee. I was surfing for white women on the internet.
We are thinking about letting Dean Smith come and sit on the bench. The only concern we have is if he will be able to stand after each BobJohnson Cat score. (That's what we did at the Tar Heel school)
But on second thought no more that the Bobcats score Dean should be ok.
We will have to make sure he does not wander up to the upper level. It is so high up there that he will lost oxygen to his brain. (Did I mention we have some cheap seats. You can sit upstairs and watch the bigscreen.
Well I better get going If Bob ever gets to Charlotte he and I have a double date tonight, we are looking for white vagina.
Posted by: mj | Oct 14, 2008 5:35:18 PM
DLQ, you may be right, but here's my thinking: Felton's biggest problem is that he doesn't make the players around him better. Bayless has that same problem. If we're smart enough to let Ray Ray go, it would have been bad news to not have any kind of a successor on the roster. And who's going to come out next year that would have been any better than Augustin? Brandon Jennings? That whole Europe situation scares me. Seems to me the guy thinks much of himself first, and that's not what I want MY 1 doing. The only other potential lottery point is Stephen Curry, and he's being slotted into that position because of size, not because of his skill set.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Oct 14, 2008 5:49:25 PM
Yes i commented on the forums about trading 1/2 of our shooters and possibly May for an athletic power forward.The Bobcats are really kidding themselves if they think May will provide us with consistent inside scoring,dude can't grab a frickin rebound.
We really need a Posey type player coming off the bench.I don't trust Felton to be the point guard that will carry the Bobcats to the playoffs,he's way to inconsistent.The good thing about him though is that he knows this is his last chance to show LB,MJ and Higgins he has what it takes to take the Bobcats to the next level,or get traded.The roster really needs a shakeup and a consistent inside scorer who can stick with the quicker power forwards in the league is what the Cats need.
Posted by: Rufus | Oct 14, 2008 7:47:45 PM
Hey Proctie get back over to the Panther board and answer my questions about your boyfriend Jake Intercepterlomme.
Are you a special needs kid? This is all you do is type and use your adding machine?
Posted by: Jason | Oct 14, 2008 8:01:01 PM
Procton you get bashed because you bring it on yourself and are innacurate and arrogant about 90% of the time. I am giving you the benefit the other 10%
Posted by: David | Oct 14, 2008 8:39:05 PM
Whoa, did Procton say something positive about the Bobcats? It's a sign! Championship in Charlotte this year! Oh, and our big men are trash, just awful. And I have never understood Dudley's proponents, he is not very good.
Posted by: Bro. D | Oct 14, 2008 10:46:15 PM
"Augustin is a better playmaker than Felton". "Felton's biggest problem is that he doesn't make the players around him better." Michael, you sound like a broken record, but please, never let the facts get on your way. Here are a few stats, of the kind you don't like (since they don't support your point). In these three preseason games: Felton: 6.3 APG with 2 TO/G in 24.5 MPG; D.J. Augustin: 4.3 APG with 2.33 TO/G in 23.5 MPG. I already posted previously college stats, showing that Raymond was the better college playmaker. True, Felton's shooting from the field this pre-season is horrible; he never was a shooter, but there can be no doubt he'll be back to where he was the last three seasons in terms of driving and scoring. And how about DJ shooting 6 of 21 from the field so far? More important, you couldn't stop fuming against Felton's jacking (and missing) those 3 pointers - which was what happened when he was part-time PG, part-time SG. This pre-season: Felton is 1 of 3 for 3 point shooting (33%), DJ is 2 of 11 for the same (18%). That's TWO shots going to waste from Felton's 3 point attempts in THREE games, versus 9 shots wasted the same way by DJ.
I really have nothing against D.J. Augustin, I used to like him as a college player, but I think our lottery pick had to go to a versatile power forward (I named several in the past - certainly not a center like Brook Lopez), not to a back-up point guard.
Sorry to tell you Michael, but David (above) is right: you're very often inaccurate, and you're horribly arrogant and conceited (as your avatar choice for the other Bonnell articles clearly shows it: KING, no less!). King, my foot.. Too bad, since you're a really intelligent guy (I'm the only one ever giving this compliment on this blog!), but your nasty personality makes you a lot of enemies.
Also, Matt Carroll's contract is over bloated (27 million over 6 years, with 5 years to go); I don't see how he can be traded. Here's an example to show what I mean by overpaid. Ronald Murray: I watched him since his days at Shaw University, and he's definitely a better player than Matt. He can shoot it from long range, he's more effective in penetration, better defender, and he can play both guard positions; he's a legit back-up point guard at NBA level (though his main job is SG). His salary: 1.5 million per year.
Posted by: Sandy | Oct 15, 2008 12:10:07 AM
A clarification to my other post: while Matt Carroll is clearly the better shooter, Ronald Murray is the better overall player
(for the reasons mentioned above).
Posted by: Sandy | Oct 15, 2008 12:20:55 AM
morrison, may and davidson for milicic and jarvis crittenton. brown backs up okafor, milicic starts at center with nazr behind him. ajinca then gets to develops his game without pressure or criticism. in two years he'll be the best big in charlotte.
Posted by: larry | Oct 15, 2008 1:21:17 AM
Mr. Procton,
Yes, DJ made his teammates better in college. I am just concerned that he doesn't have the right combination of size, length, and athleticism to pull off his game in the NBA.
Bayless has just enough size and athleticism to attack the basket in the NBA. He should become a better scorer than Felton. That could make all the difference. He might be a poor man's version of Gibert Arenas. If he creates 6 more points a game by scoring rather than assisting--I'll take it. As you know, an NBA offense doesn't have to be run through a point guard.
And I think we're asking too much of rookies to solve our point guard problems anyway. I'd like to think that we could have gotten one through a trade (OF Brook Lopez?) or free agency.
Posted by: DeLaQuest | Oct 15, 2008 8:09:05 AM
I cannot BELIEVE you're trying to say Flip Murray is a better player than Carroll. As a member of some pretty terrible teams, he's NEVER started more than 27 games in a year. He's HORRENDOUSLY inefficient as a scorer (even if he does put points up), he can't hit a 3 to save his life (28% career, 32% career high), he doesn't give as much rebounding as Carroll does, and he's just not as tough a player. I'll take a worker like Carroll over a guy like Murray who's been thrown off of any good team he's ever been on.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Oct 15, 2008 10:28:29 AM
Sandy wtf. How in the hell can you compare three PRESEASON games between a rookie pg and veteran pg? Way too early to start comparing the two. At least wait until about a month (or longer) in the season before you can talk seriously about a comparison. And Flip Murray over Matt Carroll? Come on. I have to agree with Procton on that one. As far as making a trade goes, IMO we will have to give up a starter or a draft pick to get anyone worth while in the front court. Trading Morrison or Carroll won't get us crap right now. Another Andre Brown type at best. I say let Larry do his job, and let's see what happens when the games actually count.
Posted by: Zach | Oct 15, 2008 11:27:45 AM
Michael, I already said that Matt is the better shooter. Murray is better overall because he's more versatile; better at penetration, defense, and the greatest plus: can do point guard duty. Anyway, my point with this comparison was simply to show that Matt is overpaid (not his fault, of course) and that makes him a tough proposal for a trade (hopefully, not impossible).
Posted by: Sandy | Oct 15, 2008 11:37:27 AM
Sadly, it looks like Sean May has quite possibly eaten his way out of the league. I honestly thought it would be his knee that would be his undoing.
Posted by: apauldds | Oct 15, 2008 11:59:38 AM
Lamar Odom is a guy I would like to see in a Bobcat uniform. It looks like there is too much youth and talent at his position in LA. Carroll, May, and Morrison, plus a draft pick.
Posted by: GM | Oct 15, 2008 12:33:00 PM
Matt Caroll is a better basketball player than Murray is, hands down. And I don't believe his annual salary overpays him. Look what he does when he consistently gets minutes.
Any word on Felton, Bonnell? ESPN has him as one of the most likely players to have a new team this year. What is the team, Higgings, etc saying?
Posted by: Yeah? | Oct 15, 2008 3:00:56 PM
Sandy,
Do you like how Procton never answers posts directly at him which prove him wrong? I love how he constantly imposes his opinion but when you add a rebuttal featuring facts he never responds.
Felton, when played at the point only, played very well last season, especially over the last 1/5th of the season when he averaged around 10 apg. If you look at Hollinger's predictions for players PERs for this season he comments on that very fact.
However, I do think we will attempt to trade Felton over the next two months and will move DJ to the starting PG. If the Bobcats can get a decent big in return, I think its a good move for both Felton and the Cats. I saw an article on espn today which listed Felton as I think the 8th player most likely to be traded, looks like it was looking at starters and big name players only.
Posted by: Mason | Oct 15, 2008 5:03:51 PM
No way in hell would i take Flip Murray over Carroll,trade Felton he's ahd is chance to prove himself and he hasn't delivered,i say include Okafor in that trade too now we're talking baby.
Posted by: Rufus | Oct 15, 2008 6:36:49 PM
Sandy, I simply didn't need to respond to a guy who was really proud of a FOURTH-YEAR player's performance in the preseason relative to a kid playing in his first three games ever in an NBA uniform. If that's what we're banking on, we really ARE screwed.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Oct 15, 2008 7:12:11 PM
The only reason for my comparison between Raymond and DJ after three preseason games only was to show that Michael Procton's relentless attacks on Felton in this preseason period (of which I quoted) have nothing to do with the facts, as they are now. As Mason noted, when, in previous posts, JPerry and I repeatedly provided statistics to show that Raymond did a very good job as a playmaker in the final part of last season, when he finally had the chance to do it by himself (without McInnis around), Michael chose not to respond. Hatred against facts can't work very well, I guess.
I don't know what's sillier, to think that I'm somehow "anti-Carroll" (never), or that I was talking about trading him for Flip Murray (nonsense, by NBA rules, and considering the team needs). However, I think that Carroll's contract is way too big, and that makes it close to impossible to trade him in order to handle the wings overload. The comparison with Murray was simply meant to emphasize that, if a player who, in my opinion, can do more for his team than Matt, due to superior versatility, for one third of Carroll's salary, than Matt Carroll is overpaid, and not many GMs in this league will be ready to take over his contract. I didn't mention Adam Morrison at all in this trade conversation because I don't think he can be attractive to other teams at this point. He needs to prove himself this season, and honestly, how will he get a real chance to do so with our current overload at the wings?
Posted by: Sandy | Oct 15, 2008 8:53:58 PM
Carroll has earned his salary.Over the last 3 seasons he has shown improvement relative to an increase in minutes.Flip Murray is a journeyman and he's getting journeyman money right now,Carroll has been with Charlotte 4 seasons and is a consistent 40%+ 3 point shooter.Only a handful of players that can shoot the ball from deep at that percentage.
Posted by: Rufus | Oct 16, 2008 5:30:00 PM
Trade Felton for David Lee.
Knicks need a speedy point for D'Antoni and the Bobcats need an athletic rebounding team-first power forward.
Sign a veteran point like Dan Dickau to backup Augustin.
Posted by: Mike G | Oct 22, 2008 1:57:07 AM
larry brown is a great choach and if he thinks hard-nosed d and rebounding is what we need hes probably right
Posted by: jshshts | Oct 22, 2008 4:42:51 PM
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