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November 25, 2008
Source: Brown makes scout's job tougher
I had to chuckle Monday night, listening to a friend describe how the Charlotte Bobcats' coaching change added to his workload.
This guy is an advance scout for another Eastern Conference team. He says the Bobcats firing Sam Vincent and hiring Larry Brown changed them from the easiest team to scout to the hardest.
The way this scout put it, Vincent ran the same 10 plays the same way all last season, so other than personnel, nothing much changed between scouting reports.
Brown's plays expand and evolve by the week. A scout will hear a play called, think he knows what's coming, then realize the same call is now attached to a whole new play out of the same offensive set.
Posted by Observer Sports on November 25, 2008 at 09:42 PM | Permalink
Comments
Good job, Rick. In all honesty, you've really stepped up your game this season. This is the third time I've checked your blog today, and every time there's been a fresh update. Sweet!
Posted by: Earl Cureton | Nov 25, 2008 10:23:29 PM
"other than personnel, nothing much changed between scouting reports"
Two comments. First, how is changing calls so often a good thing? I mean, Jerry Sloan has used the same offense for twenty plus years, with slight adjustments for personnel, and nobody talks about what a lousy coach he is (managing personalities aside). Coming from my set of notions about the coach Brown is, changing play calls every week sounds like a bizarre wrinkle that indicates an inability to just let players execute. If the system and plays are sound, players will use them as a foundation for creative scoring, and changing play calls would be pointless.
Second, why would some scout care what Larry Brown calls out? Regardless of the actual calls, it's no secret what the Bobcats do with their base offense's mirrored screen curls and such. If I were an advance scout, the skeleton of the report is simple and adheres to what guys have done their whole careers: They don't score much because they play the slowest pace in the league, but we want them to do that because they're built to outrun any other team this side of the Warriors. Keep Emeka five feet from the basket and let him shoot if he wants from there or beyond. Let Gerald shoot from near the arc, but don't let him drive. Post up Augustin whenever possible. If you've got an ace defensive guard, use him to pester Felton full court, because he'll get frustrated and you might get a few steals that way. And by all means, target Ajinca whenever he's on the floor, because he clearly doesn't belong in this league.
Posted by: David A. | Nov 25, 2008 10:42:39 PM
David A.,
Great, impressive post.
We can bash Sam Vincent for many reasons. But there's no way Larry Brown is going to equal Sam's win total--and Larry has a superior roster.
I'm sure Larry Brown is a genius--but every genius passes his prime. Given his last 2 coaching debacles(wasn't HE the failed Olympic coach that got blown out by Puerto Rico?), we have every reason to question him. He is obviously a great man. But, in the words of former Big 10 coach Lou Henson, hoops ain't nuclear physics.
And regarding some earlier jazz about limiting possessions so we can have a chance to win in the 4th? How the HECK is this roster set up to excel in halfcourt basketball? The only way to win with these guys is to run the ball. That way we don't get our halfcourt inabilities exploited. So I hear ya on that, David A.
Did you see that 5-step traveling violation on Ajinca against Philly? The kid momentarily forgot the rules of the game. I haven't seen that since playing in a 4th grade league.
I'm a huge believer in length/wingspan. And Ajinca seems to be a good kid. So I'm trying to be patient with him. But it's not easy, given that his position(s) is our most glaring concern.
Posted by: DeLaQuest | Nov 25, 2008 11:46:40 PM
Currently, I see no proof that a genius coach keeping our Bobcats constantly confused about their plays is going to translate to more wins than Sam Vincent's 10 play system. And I'm shocked that Sam had as much as 10!!
Posted by: DeLaQuest | Nov 25, 2008 11:52:09 PM
I don't think he's going to get any more wins than Sam because there's no front court offense, and hardly any big men period. Unless you've got multiple all stars in the backcourt your team will be a bottom feeder with no front court. Even if you do have multiple all stars in the backcourt you'll have a hard time winning games with weak rebounding and no post offense.
I agree with the other posters; it doesn't matter what the plays are, they're too easy to guard. You know they don't have anyone to feed in the post and they aren't going to hit their outside shots with regularity, so all you have to do is clog the lane and make it difficult to drive and watch them brick open jumpers all night long. On the few nights they're actually hitting their shots you're in trouble, but thats like 1 out of 5 or 6 games, so you gotta like your chances with that strategy.
Posted by: Jon | Nov 26, 2008 4:16:57 AM
Why was the well-derided Sam Vincent able to get 32 wins out of this bunch with no Augustin, no Morrison, no May, and no Ajinca? He had less big men than Larry does. Was it the influence of JEFF MCINNIS, DERRICK ANDERSON, and OTHELLA HARRINGTON????????? THOSE guys made us better????
At what point do the players stop being confused with Larry's complex coaching and just start playing instinctively? Perhaps they've already turned the corner on that. But I'll still be shocked if we win as many games as we did with last year's very questionable coach. What exactly does that say?
In fairness to Larry, he hasn't had JRich for a while. Will HE make the difference and help us get to last year's win total?
And yes, Jon and David A., I seriously hope that scouts don't bother to expend too much energy scouting Bobcat plays. The lineup is so simple to guard and attack, they should focus their efforts on other teams.
We are a full Chris Bosh, David West, or Al Jefferson away from approaching .500 status. Good luck on that one.
Posted by: DeLaQuest | Nov 26, 2008 9:23:46 AM
Red Auerbach had exactly a half-dozen plays in his playbook, and he used to say the perfect game would be when he didn't use any of them. Instead, he wanted his team to score easy baskets on the fast break.
I agree with the other posters who think Larry Brown may be "overcoaching." He's not the only coach who does this, but it leads to a stagnant offense. Guys stand around waiting for orders from the coach, rather than just playing basketball.
Posted by: Gboro Bobcats Fan | Nov 26, 2008 9:48:46 AM
Actually I think were a full Blake Griffin, Tyler Hansbrough, or Stephen Curry away from 500. That's my wish list for the next draft anyway.
Posted by: Keith Tartt | Nov 26, 2008 10:10:34 AM
Hansbrough or Curry wouldn't improve our record next year. Maybe Curry would be a decent back-up to Augustin if Felton leaves. Hansbrough will be a 20-minute energy/nastiness guy off the bench in the nba.
Blake Griffin could bring us a few more wins as a rookie.
Posted by: DeLaQuest | Nov 26, 2008 10:58:35 AM
Isn't it a bit early to be bashing Larry Brown's system? The one guy he's had a chance to develop, Augustin, seems to be coming along great.
Any basketball coach that focuses the team on scoring 100 points a game BEFORE focusing in on defensive fundementals is an idiot. Brown is not one.
Check the stats - the Cats are one of the league leaders in points against. It might make for less exciting, no "run-and-gun" basketball, but it wins championships. See Spurs, San Antonio, and Celtics, Boston.
Not to mention it may allow for G-Force to stay healthier this year.
I'm the first to admit this team needs work. We've spent unwisely and have no big men to show for it. But it looks to me that Brown is spending 75% of practice time developing a strong defense - and I agree!
Posted by: DJ_The_Longhorn | Nov 26, 2008 11:00:21 AM
De la,
You have to consider the fact that although Larry wants to win now, he looks more to the future than the immediate present. He wants his players to execute properly, play tough defense, etc... Frequently, as Rick eluded to before the season starts, LB's teams regress before improving later in the season. If the players listen to LB and we can make a few deals to align our roster more to his needs, LB will turn this team into a playoff contender.
And I agree with Gboro Bobcats Fan, we are a full Blake Griffin away from .500. That guy is a stud and exactly what this team needs.
Posted by: Mason | Nov 26, 2008 11:12:31 AM
I'm impressed with the large number of clairvoyant posters who also seem to have a large amount of NBA coaching knowledge. I think someone should call David Stern and inquire as to a way to get these guys hired coaching teams...
Posted by: Daniel | Nov 26, 2008 11:40:52 AM
sorry to break yalls hearts, but blake griffin will be the #1 pick in the draft. we r not going to get him. i foresee someone like wake forest's al-faroug aminu or connecticut's hasheem thabeet. aminu can score and is athletic while thabeet is a defensive game changer who is dwight howard minus the explosive offense
Posted by: Pnation | Nov 26, 2008 12:39:39 PM
sorry to break yalls hearts, but blake griffin will be the #1 pick in the draft. we r not going to get him. i foresee someone like wake forest's al-faroug aminu or connecticut's hasheem thabeet. aminu can score and is athletic while thabeet is a defensive game changer who is dwight howard minus the explosive offense
Posted by: Pnation | Nov 26, 2008 12:44:24 PM
I'm unimpressed the small number of arrogant assholes (Daniel) who come on message boards and contribute nothing. This article is about Larry Brown, our coach. WTF else do you expect people to post about?
Posted by: rico | Nov 26, 2008 12:50:22 PM
There are a lot of coaches who could come here and maximize wins out of the roster and their skill set as is. But coaching, from Brown's point of view, is not to eke out wins but to get a team playing to its full potential by learning how to play "the right way".
This is the same reason our high school system is a joke. Our high school athletes know how to run and press and dunk because that's the easiest way to rack up wins at that level. But true player development does not take place.
Posted by: Jesse Blanchard | Nov 26, 2008 5:09:22 PM
Sounds like I struck a cord with someone. Must be some truth to what I implied.
And I did contribute something, at least as much as you just did rico. Am I not entitled to my own opinion as you are? At least I had the maturity to refrain from denigrating language. I left e-fighting back in high-school.
So to contribute even more; I still trust in Larry Brown's decisions to coach the team since he has a proven track record. And it's way too early in the season to be freaking out or thinking lottery pick just yet.
Posted by: Daniel | Nov 26, 2008 6:04:22 PM
By the way, sorry if I offended anyone. That wasn't my point. I love satire, so that tends to show through in my posts. I just don't think we should presume to know better how to run a team than a proven coach (regardless of who it is). Sam Vincent, sure. Larry Brown? Probably not.
Though I guess I do understand the frustration this early in a season, but I would at least try to have more faith in the proven system than assume the end is near.
Posted by: Daniel | Nov 26, 2008 6:09:09 PM
Mason and Jesse,
How long do we allow Brown time for his team to get worse before they get better? If he ends up winning less than Sam Vincent with a better roster this season, has he really done his job? Are we really playing for 2009-10 or beyond? Maybe we are. But we fans are allowed to be frustrated with mounting losses....
Blake Griffin maybe would turn this team around in his 2nd or 3rd NBA year. Not his first. Remember what a stud Kevin Durant was in college? It takes time.
I'm concerned about Griffin's length. He might be a mild 'tweener.
Posted by: DeLaQuest | Nov 26, 2008 6:23:00 PM
Daniel,
Let's not forget Larry Brown's 2 most recent coaching failures. Every great one has to bow out sometime. Every "correct way" of basketball play--or many other things--becomes obsolete or too rigid over time. Let's hope that Larry is determined to prove himself all over again--after his recent debacles. No way am I saying bring back Sam Vincent. But a coach in his prime might have been nice. Out of 3 coaches, we haven't had one of those YET.
I'm not calling for Larry Brown's ouster, of course. I'm just saying that I have a right, as a paying fan who played the game for many years, to second-guess him.
Posted by: DeLaQuest | Nov 26, 2008 6:30:42 PM
Give Brown time to mold this team. Its been 14 games this season and he's been without his primary, reliable scorer in J-Rich and is trying to clean up Sam vincents mess. The talks of the draft and some superstar coming out of college is getting extremely old. A few years ago everyone probably said we need to draft so and so and our team will be great in the future. Well were in that future that everyone was talking about then and nothing has changed. The draft next year is moderate at best. Why focus on a draft pick that will take a few years to format the player to the NBA style when there are players in the NBA that are available and experienced? Brown will find his footing..give it time. The examples of the last two teams that he coached are junk, considering they are completely different teams in time periods, nothing is the same now. The bobcats werent guaranteed a 14-0 start with his immediate arrival, teams like the Bobcats take time. And the scout needs to just do his job, maybe he should get the blame for a 4-9 start haha
Posted by: Brett Johnson | Nov 26, 2008 8:32:49 PM
DJ's 7 turnovers sure didn't help tonight. And why didn't J-Rich play? I expected a blog entry on his status for tonight's game.
Posted by: Yeah? | Nov 26, 2008 9:41:36 PM
It's too early in the season to try to summarize it already. It's simply wrong for anyone to think they know now how many wins will the Bobcats have at the end of the season. It's equally mistaken to declare Brown's coaching of this team a "failure" because it has a 4-9 record, as it is to presume that he will make this team for sure, with no doubts tolerated, a success story, as long as he's given time and the management continues to bow down to his roster changing wishes!
My point is: Larry Brown is certainly a great coach, I also don't agree that he is "past his prime" and therefore unable to coach successfully anymore, but he is quite a quirky kind of a basketball genius, and he is not automatically a good fit for each and every team he gets. Whether he will be a good fit for the Bobcats or not, time will tell, it's just too early to conclude now.
Daniel, here you go again with your "the great coach knows best, how dare any of you question him ?!".
Please understand that this is nothing but an empty statement, made possible only by that kind of blind faith in coach Brown that I mentioned above. Please understand that there is an important difference between expertise in a field (and no one posting here can even approach, let alone rival, Larry Brown's tremendous expertise in basketball), and judgment, choices, preferences. The latter involve a lot of subjectivity, and it's this subjective approach - which greatly differs from one coach to another - that is open to challenge, questioning and criticism. This is exactly what several fans did here, much to your displeasure, and they made some really good points.
Posted by: Sandy | Nov 27, 2008 1:23:24 AM
More fun with the ESPN.com trade machine ... both of these trades work:
Gerald Wallace to Cleveland for J.J. Hickson and the expiring contract of Eric Snow ($7.3 million)
Or, even better ...
Jason Richardson and the expiring contract of Sean May ($2.6 million) to Cleveland for J.J. Hickson and the expiring contract of Wally Szczerbiak ($13,775,000!!!)
Both of these deals give us a young power forward and allow us to dump a big, multi-year contract in favor of an expiring one. Having Hickson at PF lets Okafor play center, where he is much better suited on defense. Then wed have a little cap space to re-sign Felton and maybe go after somebody like David Lee, Marvin Williams or Danny Granger (each of whom will be a restricted free agent this summer). Most teams will be saving money for 2010, but since we don't have a prayer of signing LeBron/Wade/Bosh anyway, we might as well capitalize in 2009 free agency.
Posted by: Earl Cureton | Nov 27, 2008 9:48:52 AM
horrible trades, and thank you sandy
Posted by: Brett Johnson | Nov 27, 2008 10:26:44 AM
I love how I've been reduced to a one-liner. I was merely making an analogy of experience, which unless I'm mistaken, is not fallacious at all. There always are exceptions, but at the same time, experience tends to trump the inexperienced. In understanding: desk jockeys are not a at an athletes' level; athletes are not at a coach's level, new coaches are not at an experienced coach's level, and so on and so forth.
I don't have blind faith in anything. But I do have faith that Larry Brown (or Poppovich, D'Antoni, Scott, etc.) knows more about how to run a basketball team than anyone on this board. And that is a fact. Facts are kind of hard to erase with armchair rationalizations or presumptions of coaching methods and shortcomings. We can complain all we want about the larger picture, and chances are we will be correct at some point or another. It's just when it comes to the more minute details that our assumptions become error-filled by the complete lack of experience necessary to make a detailed and logical assessment. Some things are obvious, and some more are not.
I'm just preaching a message of moderation. And I regret ever posting. For the sake of not becoming some Michael Procton pariah, I'll just go back home to Bobcatsplanet.
Posted by: Daniel | Nov 27, 2008 2:03:50 PM
The only way my beloved cats will ever get to .500 is if theres a front office change. Obviously jordan and johnson have to go. I mean, any owner willing to give up their franchise player (the wallace trade winds) is just stupid. Thats like the magic trading howard
Of corse we need a big, and emeka isnt one. So we trade may for some bench seats, save cap room, and become very aggressive during free-agent season.
I actually think this was the smartest draft in franchise history. Augistin is not only another chris paul, but his talent allows for us to drop felton if need be, and frenchie has massive potential. Im somewhat rethinking the brown hiring after seeing avery johnson still free. But im going to use a old s. car gamecock saying: maybe next year.
Posted by: Reggie | Nov 27, 2008 4:31:37 PM
I see they're talking Richardson for Kaman again? I'm good with that. Ajinca becomes a backup offensive-minded C/PF off the bench on a team with two point guards. Draft Thabeet and with Okafor at PF you've got a HUGE mix-and-match front-line rotation. Gerald is an extremely difficult inside match-up at SF and all the action directed at the hoop frees up the guys like Morrison and Carroll (or whomever else they may acquire) at the perimeter.
They're not going anywhere this year but they're really not quite as far away as it may currently appear.
Posted by: bugjackblue | Nov 27, 2008 6:23:27 PM
Reggie,
Augustin is another Chris Paul??? Whoooa there, fella. Let's remember that Chris Paul greatly improved his team's record as a rookie. Augustin hasn't shown that ability YET.
Time will tell. If you check the boxscores and standings, Chalmers and Lopez look like a better twosome to help this team than Ajinca and Augustin. Ajinca's complete inability to rebound--with all of his length--is especially disconcerting.
There were a lot of good players to be had in the 2008 draft, and I hope we got more than one(Augustin).
Posted by: DeLaQuest | Nov 27, 2008 6:24:20 PM
DeLaQuest,
Im almost 150% sure that the one word we can use for the cats is patience. I didnt mean for it to sound like i was calling DJ paul right NOW. Of corse, i agree with you, but i find it fair to compare the two.
Besides, any rookie on a garbage team that can average a double double as a starter deserves applause.
True, frenchie cant rebound, but im going to take the high road and say he will be better than may in about 2 years.
Lets not forget people, almost all the blame should be pinned on jordan. I mean morrison over gay?!?! Pleazzzzzzzeeeeee.
I say the cats make a wild carde chase in the garbage east, but like i said, maybe next year. Maybe that center from uconn (monroe i think) will leave early.
Posted by: Reggie | Nov 27, 2008 7:34:07 PM
Reggie,
Paul was making a major impact on New Orlean's record at DJ's current age. DJ has started to put together some nice games, but he is not turning the Bobcats around yet. Rookie Paul most certainly did that for New Orleans.
Jordan is also the guy who got us JRich for a number 8 pick. I think we have to split the blame between Jordan and Bickerstaff for the 2 drafts that brought us Felton, May, and Morrison.
Posted by: DeLaQuest | Nov 27, 2008 8:24:06 PM
Paul had a solid core of players to work with. He had a post player who had a breakout year(West) and one of the greatest spot up shooters in the last 15 years(Peja). This team will remain trash until we get a post scorer and guys who hit their open jumpshots. Very little blame can be put on the PG's here because nearly every mid-long range shot we take is completely wide open. Lopez is starting to get consistent, so it's a valid argument to say that he would help us out much more right now. That said, DJ looks really good. He doesn't have the size to be the defensive presence that Paul is, but he looks great on the offensive end. Chalmers and Lopez would have been a much better choice if you want to improve now, but DJ may be the better choice if we do indeed decide to rebuild.
Reggie, I agree that patience is needed here, but at the same time, how long will it take? The article about the ratings showed a 65% drop in our audience from last season. Every game I go to there are less and less people in the crowd. This team has to be on the brink of going under, how long can they afford to wait? Finding a great PG is cool, but as most championship teams will show you, they aren't a necessity. Having a star big man and guys who knock down shots are much more important. I hate to say it, but PGs are really overrated at the moment. CP3 and Deron Williams would not have made this team win. We don't have the shooting or post scoring that those teams have, and you cannot credit the PG for those things. Boozer and West do not have to rely on their PGs in order to score, they can create and get them on their own. Without the shooters and bigs all they(CP3 and Williams) could do is score and play some defense in a losing effort. All that said, I don't think Lopez will be a real star, and DJ might be, but Lopez would at least help us win games and possibly contend for a playoff spot and maybe generate some buzz in Charlotte.
Posted by: Eddie | Nov 27, 2008 9:04:25 PM
DeLaQuest,
All im saying is that DJ has superstar potential. Sure, maybe he hasnt made that superstar change just yet, but im sure it will come.
As for j-rich, obviously that was the GREATEST move jordans made. But its his first out of many.
Good to know that theres some people who still care about this team other than me.
Posted by: Reggie | Nov 27, 2008 9:11:51 PM
Reggie: Getting Richardson was far from a genius move. Would you rather own a 2BR house with a $500,000 mortgage, or a decent apartment in the same neighborhood for $100,000? He's pretty good, at times the best player on the floor, but don't be taken in by points alone. He's not the defensive player or rebounder that Gerald is, and I'd rather have Emeka at his contract than Richardson at his.
Only one team in the modern NBA has ever won a title without a surefire Hall of Famer leading the way, the 2004 Pistons; only a couple others have even made the Finals without one. No team is a surefire playoff contender without a perennial All Star. We should only be paying the kind of money Richardson gets to someone who has a shot at being an All Star every year. Richardson didn't when he was a truly dynamic player and he won't now that he's started losing steps. If we can trade him for Kaman and a smaller, expiring, contract, we should do it in a heartbeat.
Posted by: David A. | Nov 27, 2008 11:05:54 PM
David,
I dont think Kamans the best defensive player, but ill take him over may. I think if we could keep gerald and j-rich and try to get tyson chandler, lamarcus aldridge, or kendrick perkins, wed be good.
I feel that wallace is underated and would have a shot at being an all star if it wasnt a popularity contest. Same with j-rich. But until we start winning, nobodys going to hear from them. I live in columbia sc, and the games are blacked out on tv. This team needs a star, but without giving up their core.
Posted by: Reggie | Nov 27, 2008 11:22:40 PM
WOW! There have been some interesting convo's on here since a long time ago when I used to post... Sandy came with a real strong point, the bobcats hands down have been fortunate to get a guy like Larry Brown and it is yet to be seen if he will be a positive in whole for this team and city... But overall the guy knows his basketball and his players... I think in basketball a lot of the time you have to breakdown to build up... and what I mean by that is these player come out of college and are taken into a new system and taught that by what ever coach and execs are behind the team, with the coach being the frontrunner of the whole thing... and with a coach like Brown he wants to break these players of habits that will effect his system negatively and after you break that down from your players they can start to recognize and rebuild... the bobcats have the tools point blank.. they do, they just have to play within each other and know to be true to each others skills (and maybe a pick and pop guy)... And let Larry lead them...!
Holla!!!
Posted by: Tylan Ward | Nov 28, 2008 1:10:53 AM
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