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November 28, 2008
Thoughts on Bobcats' future in Charlotte
I just read Max Muhleman's comments in Friday's Observer, speculating how Bob Johnson could either try to move the Bobcats or sell to someone who'd try to move them over the next five years.
Max has forgotten more about sports marketing than I'll ever hear. I respect him greatly. However, his comments disregard three factors that could be significant in any effort to move this team:
1. For all the city gave away to bring the NBA back to Charlotte, the arena lease includes perhaps the toughest relocation penalties in the league. Johnson or whoever he sold the team to would potentially have to pay the city hundreds of millions to move.
2. Where would you move an NBA team right now that would guarantee profitability? Oklahoma City is gone as an option and the league obviously has sports-book misgivings about moving to Las Vegas. Kansas City has a new arena but it's doubtful that market can support three major-league teams.
3. The NBA is less than happy with how the Bobcats have been run. When Johnson publicly called out the Charlotte business community in the Observer, he made no friends in the league office. I should think the bar would be set pretty high, as far as justifying any future relocation that would bail out ownership.
Posted by Observer Sports on November 28, 2008 at 10:36 AM | Permalink
Comments
I can't believe that two franchises failed in the vibrant Pacific NW region. A smart owner could make it work out there, so if not for the relocation penalties, could you say "Seattle Bobcats?"
Posted by: YellowPeril | Nov 28, 2008 11:09:26 AM
The key factor in Seattle was a complete disinterest in government building the Sonics a new arena. Unless that changed, there is zero chance of an NBA team moving there.
Posted by: rick bonnell | Nov 28, 2008 11:28:46 AM
Rick:
Those "relocation penalties" Pam Syfert thought she negotiated into the city contract with THE NBA are the legal equivalent of the Maginot Line -- fighting the last war. The owner up and moving is not the problem.
First, the NBA could merely assert that the city did not live up to its part of the agreement and dare the city to pay lawyers to argue the point.
Given that exactly no one on the outside knows the specifics of the financial arrangements between the city, the CRVA, and Bobcat Sports and Entertainment LLC -- go ahead and FOIA all contracts between BSE and relevant parties -- we do not what kinds of demands or adjustments have been made to the operating agreement -- or have been rejected, thus providing the basis for legal action.
We DO know, however, that it is routine for sports franchises to demand more favorable terms (increased subsidy) when conditions warrant, the NHL outlet in Nashville being one recent example of this.
Also, what penalty did Bob Johnson pay for folding the Sting?
This points up that the real threat to the NBA outlet in CLT is not relocation but contraction. Were the Bobcats and the Grizzlies to go poof, would the NBA really miss them?
Besides, with $130m. in guaranteed contracts on the books, it is pretty much impossible to sell the Bobcats for the foreseeable future, unless it is to MJ.
So. What happens? You really think Bob Johnson sits back and loses millions forever? I don't.
Wait until the Bobcats are officially out of playoff contention. Then everything will break loose.
JAT
Posted by: Jeff A. Taylor | Nov 28, 2008 11:29:09 AM
The Observer and other media print that the Bobcats can be seen on FOXSS. Since we have so many different cable and satellite systems it would seem more prudent to print what channels FOXSS is on with the different systems. The easier it is to access any program may increase viewers and maybe ultimately increase attendance at Bobcat games.
Posted by: Larry Falcone | Nov 28, 2008 12:02:30 PM
Let's all agree that the Bobcats are possibly the worst ran and marketed team in the NBA. If the team was really wanting to push and market the team, MJ needs to be the focal/front man if you will. He needs to be visible at the games (take a walk thru the stands meet the fans should be able to shake the whole arenas fan one night no more of a crowd than attends) and at Charlotte city/business functions, drum up corporate support. Just a few thoughts.
Posted by: merlose | Nov 28, 2008 12:12:42 PM
Maybe Obamanomics will kick in for the Bobcats....I mean if GM can get a subsidy for poor management.....
Posted by: Ralph Sampson | Nov 28, 2008 12:37:47 PM
I know many of us are frustrated with the Bobcat present performance. The problem with the team is the lack of athletic players who have being signed to multi-million dollar deals. These players some have not reach the 10 points mark since the beginning of the present leaque. What a shame on them with their big salaries. Waive May, carroll, and put Okafor on probation if his performance is not improving.The two best players now three (Wallace, Richardson and now Augustin)are really under-rated. Felton is starting to play better with Augustin's combination, but a lot of work need to be done with him. He is very anxious and his composure in the game is still very fragile. I know this is a young team, but come-on, loosing over and again to teams like the Buck, Pacers, Thunder, Wizards, etc should dictate something.
Besides, Jordan need to be a little more visible, afterall, he's now in charge of major decisions for the team. Why is he hidding? Don't repeat the mistakes in Washington, because you're highly respected as a sports icon. The failure of the Bobcat will mean your management failure. Wake-up Cats, let's wiiiiiiinnnnnnnn!
Posted by: aaronsiafa | Nov 28, 2008 1:07:25 PM
Maybe they should have named the team the Charlotte Flight liked the majority of the fan base wanted. Bobcats sounds like a d league team.
Posted by: wundrbread33 | Nov 28, 2008 4:35:47 PM
dude -- flight sounds like a D League affiliate of a WNBA team...awful...there is nothing wrong with bobcats
Posted by: Bobcat Matt | Nov 28, 2008 5:23:23 PM
I believe that contraction of the league will occur. Nothing lasts forever and we all will have less expendable income in the future. The NBA will become the new NHL and the players union will kill the league like the autoworkers union killed Detroit. Better have a plan b Rick.
Posted by: Steve Thomas | Nov 28, 2008 5:33:04 PM
Am I in a time warp? Bonnell, that is some of the same stuff you said about the Hornets. And some of the other crap posted in the comments (the Bobcats are the worst run team, yadda yadda) is the same stuff said about the Hornets.
And they still left.
And there are plenty of options where the Bobcats could relocate. I would prefer a city briefly talked about during the Hornets' relocation, Norfolk, or one of the other VA cities. It's close enough so that true Bobcat fans could still follow the team, but they'd be leaving the poisonous Charlotte market, which would be a good thing.
There can be debate about whether or not the Bobcats are the "worst run team in the NBA" (they have the 2nd best record of any expansion team after four seasons in the past 20 years), but if Charlotte lets two NBA teams relocate in less than a decade, there is no doubt that the city would solidify its position as the worst market in the NBA, and one of the worst in all of sports.
Posted by: Will | Nov 28, 2008 5:35:45 PM
The Bobcats are the exact same as the Tampa Bay Rays. They're in a similar boat where they need a front office change, and a playoff run to really get the fans interested night in and night out. With more fans means more money, and once the money begins to come in, and the team begins to win, the Bobcats will hopefully begin to make a name out of themselves. They need to go through that basic process every new teams goes through to become something, they just havent hit that point yet. A winning team really makes a difference, and it goes all the way to the top to blame for no fans, poor records, etc. The organization needs to become more involved with the fans during he game, have game promotions and everything else. But, we'll see what happens.
Posted by: Brett Johnson | Nov 28, 2008 5:36:08 PM
good work Rick
Posted by: Bobcat | Nov 28, 2008 7:21:45 PM
Will, how can you say worst market? Because the fans know when they've been played or an owner is trying to play them? Shinn and BJ have a lot in common...they can't read the fan base. Shinn was too cheap to sign Alonzo. BJ just does't have a clue. And that's our fault? Bottom line, we like having BJ doing his economic stimulus thing here in Charlotte....keep the bucks flowing! I hope Bob keeps the faucet open...we need the spending.
Posted by: greg smith | Nov 28, 2008 8:02:22 PM
Does ANYBODY really care about the Bobcats. Seriously...does anyone care? By bringing this league back to Charlotte we blew away MLB for an few more years. Had the Bobcats not come to down construction would be going on right now for a Major League Baseball Stadium. The numbers ARE there.
Posted by: mike nelson | Nov 28, 2008 8:05:22 PM
Who cares about the Bobcats? Better question...Who cares about baseball? Baseball has been in a nose dive since 1994. At least with the resurgence of the Celtics, there is still a hope for the Bobcats. Baseball is one scandal away from totally collapsing, much less expansion.
Posted by: Adam | Nov 28, 2008 8:21:29 PM
I hope that MJ and several other ex-basketball greats will buy the Bobcats from Bob Johnson. Johnson has not hired good enough people to run the business side. That has hurt ticket sales and marketing opportunities. To save $1 Johnson will spend $100. The NBA should demand more from it's owners.
MJ, Larry Bird and several others want to be owners but will never have enough money to solely own a team. They will have to work together in some type of ownership team.
Posted by: Mark | Nov 28, 2008 8:33:58 PM
Yes, Charlotte is the worst market, and having a second team relocate in less than a decade would just prove that fact.
And Shinn offered Mourning a huge contract, larger than Johnson's (which was one of the largest contracts at the time), but Mourning wanted to go elsewhere where he didn't have to play second fiddle to someone. LJ and Mourning got into a fist fight later in their careers...you think there wasn't some bad blood there?
Charlotte is an awful market, period.
And no other professional team is going to expand to Charlotte if the Bobcats leave. One of the main reasons Charlotte was finally granted an NFL team was due to their support of the Hornets in their early years. No team is going to come to a market that has run two other professional teams off.
Johnson was stupid enough to take a chance on this market; no other professional owner will make the same mistake.
Posted by: Will | Nov 28, 2008 9:06:44 PM
Given that Charlotte has already given two professional sports teams as much support as they needed, why can't we do it again?
Charlotte has grown so much since the Hornets left, and is still growing. Give the Cats a couple years to give us a taste of winning there's no reason they can't get as hyped here as the Hornets were.
Besides, why does everyone have to be so shallow to demand wins for support? Be a true fan for crying out loud. Love 'em when they're good, love 'em when they're bad. GO BOBCATS!
Posted by: Keith | Nov 28, 2008 11:46:42 PM
I am a huge Bobcats fan and I attend as many games as possible. The team is not relocating and the Bobcats are getting better under Larry Brown. The win tonight was great. Felton played phenomenal and Richardson looked good coming back from his injury.
Posted by: Token | Nov 28, 2008 11:50:41 PM
The bobcats are getting better and hopefully they'll be around for a while. I just don't understand what you people complain over! You have a professional team! Support them! Take your woman or your kid out for some entertainment man. Also, Felton was clutch tonight. The guy is versatile and brings the right attitude to the team. Brown is coaching this team effectively and I know we'll see more numbers in the win column.
Posted by: rod | Nov 29, 2008 1:00:44 AM
As the Hornets proved, the market is there. They led the league in attendance for years, until the T'wolves came in and started playing in a larger arena. It takes hard work and dedication by sabatorial ownership to go from 23,000 a game to 8,000 in 2-3 years. You have to WANT to fail in order to sour that many fans. and Geotge Shinn did just that.
The problem is, Bob J. & Co. have done nothing to wash that bitter taste left by the Hornets. They are running the organization cheaply and poorly.
The problem isn't the market. The problem is the ownership.
Posted by: Drew | Nov 29, 2008 2:37:12 AM
Keith said: "Besides, why does everyone have to be so shallow to demand wins for support?"
Because Charlotte is a poor sports, certainly now in the case of the NBA.
And your question points out why Drew is wrong; the city of Charlotte that supported the Hornets when they lost is not the same today. The reason they supported the Hornets was because professional sports in this area was something brand new, and they were in the honeymoon phase.
And, Drew, yes, the problem is the market.
You had an owner that did nothing but attend the games, and you ran him off. Now you whine that another owner doesn't attend enough games.
You had an owner that basically stopped his business ventures to invest himself in his professional sports team, then you whined that he was too cheap and didn't pay his players. Now you have an owner that keeps himself involved in his businesses so that he is able to support a franchise that is losing money, and he has paid every one of his main players that have come up for an extension, and you whine.
It goes on and on. Shinn and Johnson are almost two completely different owners, and you have whined about both. As I've said before, Charlotte is the Goldilocks of the professional sports world.
And I was just thinking today; everyone whines about Jordan, but if he had never joined this franchise, you can be damn sure all those whiners would be complaining about how stupid Johnson is not to add Jordan into the mix.
C'est la Charlotte.
Posted by: Will | Nov 29, 2008 4:15:03 AM
Will=alias for Jerry Reece
Posted by: James Reed | Nov 29, 2008 8:05:06 AM
Rick, I know you're trying to put a positive approach to this, but if the great pundits of Charlotte keep throwing this out there (the Bobcats leaving) then it is bound to happen; and a what a great waste that would be yet again.
Please don't keep bringing this up or feeding it as the prognostication will become the reality. The gloom and doomers will have gotten what they want; even though they don't really have an interest in it. The Cable Box will sit empty for the "I told you so'ers" delight, but to the detriment of the region.
And if the NBA bailed out Shinn and Bennett it'll "bail out" anybody. I mean really it facilitated a move of a team from freaking Seattle to Oklahoma City; instead of helping the long paying fans work out a way forward. Don't count on the NBA to do anything but screw a city to serve an owner. It won't do the right thing.
Posted by: Keetch | Nov 29, 2008 8:30:49 AM
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