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May 31, 2010

Would you do Turkoglu for Diaw?

Based on what my buddy in Toronto, Doug Smith, is writing http://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/article/816425--smith-if-turk-wants-out-it-s-time-to-say-goodbye it sounds like Hedo Turkoglu and the Raptors might be headed for a quickie divorce.

Makes me wonder: Would Turkoglu-for-Boris Diaw be a good swap for the Raptors and Bobcats?

The salaries are fairly close so you could do a deal without too much trouble. The upside and downside for each team:

The Bobcats would likely improve offensively, and the playoffs demonstrated they need that. Like Diaw, Turk gives you an extra ballhandler at the forward position. Unlike Diaw, Turk can be a consistent scoring threat.

That's the upside. The downside is the Bobcats would be worse defensively for this swap .Diaw can guard all five positions and generally without fouling out. Often the Bobcats' best lineup was going small with Diaw at center. He's always going to be frustrating for his seeming lack of passion, but Diaw's versatility at both ends would be missed. Replacing Diaw with Turk would force Gerald Wallace back into the role of guarding a lot of power forwards.

The most obvious upside for the Raptors would be moving a player who doesn't want to be there and who is owed a lot of money. Beyond that, the Raptors would improve defensively, and they're just about the worst defensive team in the NBA. Also, Diaw would provide some insurance at the power forward position should Chris Bosh leave in free-agency.

The downside? Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo knows all of Diaw's flaws from Colangelo's days running the Phoenix Suns. So he'd know Diaw looks better the first six months after you trade for him than he does two years later. And he'd know Diaw can be moody when he doesn't touch the ball as much as he'd like.

I don't know if such a trade will be discussed, but it seems like something worth kicking around. 

Posted by Observer Sports on May 31, 2010 at 09:03 PM | Permalink

Comments

Do we really want to take on his contract? 4 more years at over 40 million. These are the type of contracts that have gotten us in salary cap purgatory in the first place (See Diop, Nazr, Matt Carroll, et. al.)

Posted by: bobcatrich | May 31, 2010 9:43:09 PM

No way. Though I like the trade for the first 2 years because Turk is an upgrade over Diaw even with those issues you mention. But he's got 4 years left contract and he'll be in his mid-30s when the deal is up. Diaw's contract expires in 2 years.

The Cats main problem is salary cap inflexibility (that and improving their collegiate scouting). Diaw, Diop, Nazr, Chandler all of them are eating up space that should be used by more productive players. Adding a guy who's not an upgrade at an area of need (PF, C, PG) and extends the salary cap problem is a bad deal.

We need to ride out the bad contracts and look to flip them the expiring contracts for better players OR use the space to pursue a difference making free agent.



Posted by: sfgiant | May 31, 2010 9:44:10 PM

It seems like a sideways sort of move, just changing faces without any real improvement, while taking on a longer term big contract.

With the Bobcats around the cap limit, why would they add another big long term contract, unless it offered more than a minimal improvement?

Posted by: FaithandTruth | May 31, 2010 9:47:23 PM

Even as frustrating as it is to watch Diaw to play, will Hedo be happy here down the road. Remember he picked the Raptors over the Blazers. Now he wants out.

Posted by: Steve | May 31, 2010 9:47:57 PM

Honestly Rick, how in the hell do you still have a job? You either post hypothetical questions or piggyback from another writer in a different town. I find it hard to believe that the Charlotte O is still in business. It would not surprise me the least to learn tomorrow that they were done.

Posted by: jimmy lane | May 31, 2010 10:01:00 PM

if the MJ's really want succeed, they have to figure out how to a) draft, b) trade and c) sign and do all three successfully. They are too dependent on trades and signing lower value free agents.

The only real way to get talent that exceeds what you pay them is to draft well and pay the rookie scale for 5 years.
(example: Rondo is still paid on the rookie scale and look at the value Boston gets beyond what they pay him!!)

Posted by: bobfan1 | May 31, 2010 10:13:15 PM

No, no, absolutely not. I want to trade Diaw but not for that contract and player. I'd rather deal Diaw to Chicago for Kirk Hinrich. The salaries work, Hinrich's actually decreases over the next 3 years, and we get a blended PG/SG who can contribute in place of losing Felton. This would require signing Tyrus Thomas to a multi-year deal (or sign and trade him for another PF). Hinrich would be a better player on our team versus the Bulls.

Posted by: Mark | May 31, 2010 10:55:29 PM

I have to agree with the other posters, Turkoglu's contract as compared to Diaw's makes this a bad deal for the Bobcats. It's bad enough the Cats have on their hands Diop's contract, which runs out in 2013 only (with the last year being a player's option). Nazr's and Chandler's contracts end after next season, which will give the team more flexibility on the free agent market.

After the kind of performance Diaw put up in the first three games in the playoffs I wish he could be traded, but not in a way that would increase the team's long term contract liabilities without significant improvement. I also think that it's better to keep Felton (if he won't have unreasonable salary demands) than to trade for Hinrich.

Anyway, the Bobcats can't even think seriously about any player personnel moves before the coach situation is resolved. And, if Larry Brown decides to return, will he be open to the idea of trading Diaw? Versatility at both ends of the floor, especially passing ability and defense - these would probably outweigh lack of offensive aggressiveness for Larry Brown.

Posted by: Sandy | Jun 1, 2010 12:32:07 AM

It sounds like a bad idea on many fronts. Any loss on the defensive side of the ball will cost the Cats greatly. I've never known Turk as a defensive guy...and we have an established scorer in Jackson. Diaw was frustrating to watch at times but picked his game up at the end of last season. A guy who can play and defend multiple positions is what the Cats need. And who wants to make the Raptors better? Not this Cats Fan! Move one of the centers for a draft pick and get Felton signed to contract that won't choke the team.

Posted by: HPCatFan | Jun 1, 2010 1:25:55 AM

I like Hedo for us, but not on his contract. I could live with the deal if we get toronto's first this year and a second next year, give us something to work with.

Posted by: Tattoo | Jun 1, 2010 3:18:03 AM

What position would Turk play? He isn't a PF.

Posted by: Steve | Jun 1, 2010 6:59:25 AM

I agree with almost everyone's take that it's a definite upgrade, but we don't want his contract. I'd like for the Cats to pickup someone like JJ Reddick if the Magic don't re-sign him. They could potentially get him at a good deal and not have to overcompensate for him.

Posted by: PantherDave | Jun 1, 2010 7:40:32 AM

He would help us win more games but not enough to where his contract is worth it. That's the problem with the Bobcats. They didn't build up right and were looking for short term success. Who believes they are ever going to win a title with the team they have now?

Posted by: Tyler | Jun 1, 2010 9:27:39 AM

No, the guy is expensive and he has shown that when he's not happy somewhere, his numbers decrease greatly. Trading Diaw is a top priority in my opinion, but not for Hedo.

Posted by: Smitty | Jun 1, 2010 10:31:40 AM

1. Trading for Chandler was a good deal financially, because he had a much short contract than Emeka. I'd rather overpay for 2 years instead of five.
2. Diop was a bad deal...end of story
3. Pay Thomas and start him next year at PF.
4. Don't take on more long contracts for fringe starters. if you are going to pay, let it be for an allstart (Chris Paul!!)

Posted by: Roy | Jun 1, 2010 10:52:05 AM

NO...

Posted by: James | Jun 1, 2010 10:56:01 AM

NO...

Posted by: James | Jun 1, 2010 10:56:02 AM

Stay with the current roster and play Tyrus more at PF.

Posted by: apauldds | Jun 1, 2010 11:37:21 AM

I agree with several others here. We need to get rid of Diaw, but not for Turkoglu. Package Augustine, Jackson, and Diaw for CP3. We've never had a star here in Charlotte. Can you imagine CP3, Wallace, Thomas, and Chandler lineup? oooh. I would pay twice what I paid last year for tickets.

Posted by: flanahan32 | Jun 1, 2010 12:20:22 PM

Rid of Diaw = YES
Bring in Turkoglu = NO!!!!!!!!!

I want to see Tyrus on the floor more. He has the agressivness and pasion we need.

Posted by: Chris | Jun 1, 2010 12:22:54 PM

Seriously... Can we generate enough noise over here to bring in CP3? Trade the whole freakin' team if you have to. WE WANT 3! WE WANT 3! WE WANT 3!

Posted by: flanahan32 | Jun 1, 2010 12:25:01 PM

flanahan 32:

Few weeks ago I mentioned a scenario similar to yours. The scenario you proposed wil not work under the current NBA Rules, salaries don't match and there is no "real" incentive for NO. However my scenario was:

Chris Paul for:
Stephen Jackson, Nazr Mohamed and 2014 Pick

New Orleans will get the SF they desperatly need in Jackson, some financial flexibility with Nazr expiring contract and a 1st Rd Pick. I really don't care about the pick here, since we don't know how to draft.

The Bobcats can then try to sign John Salmons to 3Yrs/$24M deal and try to extend Tyrus Thomas and Flip or Graham. The team will be:

Paul / DJ
Salmons / Henderson
Wallace / Brown
Diaw / Thomas
Chandler / Diop / Ajinca
Flip and/or Graham and maybe Ratliff again.

That Team will be like $8M over the Cap space, but this will be a highly competitive Team in the East, we can even win the East if Larry Brown continues his Magic touch and is back.

Paul is by Far the "Super Upgrade" in both scoring, defense and decision making; and he will thrive with Brown as a Coach. Salmon's replaces Jackson scoring even though is not a great defender, but we have Graham for that. Wallace will be even better with Paul and Chandler might be inspired once again, by playing with his longtime buddy.

If Chandler's contract can be renegotiated (since Paul is now in the equation), the Bobcats can sign him to a 4yrs/$27M contract (Equals 3Yr/$15M extension) ne would never find something better. That would put him at $6.75M per year which will put the Bobcats only at $2-3M over the Cap. Chandler can then be a great backup (he thrived in that role late last season) at a similar price of Diop (however, Chandler is far more worthy).

Posted by: RobC | Jun 1, 2010 12:37:56 PM

What is wrong with starting Tyrus Thomas at PF?? He's a high 1st rounder and he's experienced.With the very little time he was given he put up some very good numbers. He certainly doesn't play as soft as Diaw or Ajinca. I may go for the deal for the offensive boost start Thomas and back him up with Derrick Brown or a bulked up Ajinca. Thomas reminds me of Sheed a bit just not as Loco but just as aggressive, nice touch from mid range, but without that 3pt range. If he developed that he'd be an all star. My two cents.

Posted by: ripp | Jun 1, 2010 4:26:22 PM

Felton is the only expirenced point in free agencyt his summer. He will get top dolar. No way we keep him. The numbers do not lie. Too bad though, I think he is a star!

Posted by: Phuck_Dook | Jun 1, 2010 5:26:53 PM

hey rick, what is up with this isma'il muhammad kid they are bringing in

Posted by: jcb | Jun 1, 2010 8:06:24 PM

jimmy Lane quote"Honestly Rick, how in the hell do you still have a job? You either post hypothetical questions or piggyback from another writer in a different town. I find it hard to believe that the Charlotte O is still in business. It would not surprise me the least to learn tomorrow that they were done."

Dude, I was asking myself the very same question when I read the title of this post. He had another head scratcher headline that read "Might Bobcats trade into the draft" I don't know Rick, you get paid to cover the Bobcats. You are better equipped to answer that question.

Can we get some off-season info on what the Bobcats may do this summer? What "You" think the team needs this summer to get better next year. What are your thoughts on Raymond, Ajinca, and if you think DJ can run this team full-time. Something other than a post talking about Cousins eating habits. He's not coming to the Bobcats, so why would that be a headline story? Earn your keep!!

Posted by: Bobcatsfan | Jun 1, 2010 9:03:54 PM

Don't think I'd do it, mainly bc of the contract, and Hedo seemed to regress last season. He's also not getting any younger. Maybe if Toronto through somebody else in to make it more enticing, but straight up, no.

Posted by: Ari | Jun 1, 2010 10:36:07 PM

Don't think I'd do it, mainly bc of the contract, and Hedo seemed to regress last season. He's also not getting any younger. Maybe if Toronto through somebody else in to make it more enticing, but straight up, no.

Posted by: Ari | Jun 1, 2010 10:36:08 PM

threw that is

Posted by: Ari | Jun 1, 2010 10:36:34 PM

i don't know if you do it but you have to consider it. i mean to me.....jackson is already playing turkolu's role and it would just be too much duplication. on the flipside......we've got tyrus thomas to resign and he's definitely capable of the starting 4 spot and we could bring turkolu off the bench and have a SOLID 3 man rotation between him, jackson and wallace occassionally playing all 3.

i don't like the trade much but i also don't like diaw;s lack of passion and wouldn't mind adding a guy with a similar salary but with an OBVIOUS chip on his shoulder. its tough to say. i don't think it fits well to have 3 similarly positioned guys paid over 10 mil a year but then again paying a guy 9 to be a bump on a log isn't great either.

i say no...let's develop the young'ns instead. ajinca and thomas have way more upside at this point and way less risk.

Posted by: charlottean | Jun 1, 2010 10:38:26 PM

Monta ellis from G.S. for Turk .

Posted by: Future GM | Jun 2, 2010 3:03:07 AM

^^^ga tech guy....dunks on everybody. think shannon brown on drugs. not literally.

Posted by: charlottean | Jun 2, 2010 10:03:13 AM

Keep Diaw just because he had a bad playoff series don't trade him and especially for turkgolu. Trade him for someone like David Lee who actually plays PF and give them a 2014 first rounder along with that. But in my opinion keep DIAW

Posted by: KEEP DIAW | Jun 2, 2010 10:21:27 AM

No way I'd make this trade.

Based on his play in Toronto this season, Turkoglu looks like a guy who is now over the hill. He's at that age where many players start to decline - and sometimes, that drop comes steep and fast.

Plus, Turkoglu spent most of the season griping about minutes and shots.

I wouldn't make this trade straight-up. But given Turkoglu's huge, multi-year contract, plus the fact he was a distraction for the Raptors, I'd say it's a no-brainer.

Posted by: Gso Cats Fan | Jun 2, 2010 1:18:13 PM

hell yea bring in the turk, you think we are the best defensive team in the nba cause of boris diaw? if he leaves we wont be as great defensively but we will finally be a BALANCED team

Posted by: parker | Jun 2, 2010 5:31:01 PM

hell yea bring in the turk, you think we are the best defensive team in the nba cause of boris diaw? if he leaves we wont be as great defensively but we will finally be a BALANCED team

Posted by: parker | Jun 2, 2010 5:31:01 PM


I have to agree on the poster who said that our NBA coverage is well below average. We hardly got any news on any of the draft combine or who might not get drafted and who might we sign as a rookie free agent for summer camp. On another note, I have to agree with Rob C, that's good trade I hope the Cats do this trade!

Posted by: jah p | Jun 2, 2010 5:49:59 PM

Hey Rick,

Are the rumors Cleveland is looking at Larry Brown true? Would Larry be interested?

Also, is Philly officially out of the Larry-chase now?

Posted by: Josh | Jun 3, 2010 11:36:41 AM

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