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July 14, 2010

Dampier can be traded...with a hitch

A couple of you asked about the NBA's trade rules, and how they would apply if the Charlotte Bobcats wanted to quickly move center Erick Dampier's unguaranteed, $13 milllion salary. Since these rules can get complex, I emailed the league, and here's what I was told:

Dampier's contract CAN be traded right now, but couldn't be aggregated with another salary to make a deal work until 60 days after being acquired by the Bobcats. In other words, if the Bobcats needed to move about $17 million to make a trade work, they couldn't combine Dampier's salary with Matt Carroll's ($4.3 million) to approximate that number until mid-September.

Posted by Observer Sports on July 14, 2010 at 08:13 PM | Permalink

Comments

But a deal could be structured as two trades, correct? For instance, Dampier could be traded for a better player with a similar contract, one for one. Then with that, we could trade other pieces-- Diaw for a $4M and $5M guy, for example-- as long as they matched up money-wise, right?

Posted by: dnbman | Jul 14, 2010 8:40:16 PM

Great Rick, thanks for the update, but it means we could be in for a long summer (literally).

Anyway, read about the Livingston signing. Shame he injured his knee so badly a couple of years ago and I'm all about giving guys second chances, but I think the Bobcats will still have to do better than that going into the season. Basketball's a game where pretty horrific injuries like that often seem to take a lot out of players and they usually never look the same.

This team has to have something up their sleeves because when I look at the roster it's kind of frightening. I give LB and the front office credit for making so many moves, but at the end of the day it seems like mediocrity bringing in more mediocrity. I understand it's difficult to improve yourself, especially when the draft picks have not worked out at all, but I think fans have to be honest in their assesment of the team going forward and as of right now it doesnt' look like there is a lot to look forward to next season. Of course that could change if a team like NO, desperate to move Paul because of new ownership, cap room, etc., were willing to be fleeced by a team by Charlotte, but I wouldn't really hold my breath.

The fact is right now this roster is built around Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson. Wallace is a hell of an effort player and talented, but at the same time he's a bit of an over-achiever in my book. Jackson is skilled, but he's not getting any younger and does have some nagging flaws as a player (ball hog, turnovers, sulking, etc.). We also know how impatient LB is and if this team struggles next year, which I expect quite frankly, I could see him getting very antsy, which would not be pretty.

The bottom line is some way, some how, this team needs an infusion of legit young talent. The team has taken a couple of steps backward this offseason. Even though losing Felton and Chandler isn't the end of the world (team wasn't winning big anyway), these losses do leave gaping holes at arguably the two most important positions to build a team around. Bandaids, like the moves made so far, probably won't even get you back to the first round of the playoffs.

Like other fans, I'm not the most patient guy in the world. I can only hope something better on the horizon is coming pretty soon, or else things won't be pretty, and shouldn't be expected to be either.

Posted by: Ari | Jul 14, 2010 8:54:31 PM

C'mon Primoz Brezec round 2!!!!!!

Posted by: Bro D. | Jul 14, 2010 9:34:43 PM

understand that we CAN'T trade dampier 1 for 1 because then we would be way over the luxury tax. that's why the move was retarded. we just s'd away tyson chandler's contract year and 7 million in cap room for 2 years and 3 more in a 3rd year for nothing. and we threw in ajinca.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 14, 2010 10:10:01 PM

If Dampier's contract cannot be traded together with another player, then the only two real and viable options are:

1.) Mo Williams & Delonte West ($500K guaranteed) for Dampier; and then move either Mohammed or Diop (prefered) for Varejao in a separate deal.

2.) Gilbert Arenas for Dampier; and Diop for Javale McGee, also in a separate deal.

These two are teams in rebuilding mode, that are looking to unload contracts.

Regardles of what people say, as risky and crazy as it sounds, I still think Arenas gives the Bobcats the best chance to contend now. Larry Brown has a proven record of success when dealing with "bad boys". I'm all for giving him a 2nd chance, and the guy still an All-Star player and McGee is another All-Star caliber player. Then they can sign Theo Ratliff as a 3rd Center.

Arenas/DJ/Livingston
Jackson/Henderson/Carroll
Wallace/Diaw/Brown
Thomas/Najera/McGuire
McGee/Mohammed/Ratliff

IMO that would be a "Heck" of a roster, with one of the Top 7 "Bench Units" in the NBA and a Top 3 Defense in the NBA.

Posted by: RobC | Jul 14, 2010 10:20:23 PM

I really thought going into the offseason that the best thing for the cats to do would be to just blow things up completely and go for draft picks/cap space... and they've gone in the complete opposite direction. "Tysons expiring is a great asset! Let's throw it away for dampiers non-guaranteed! A mediocre former lottery pick is available? LET'S THROW 8 MILLION AT HIM"

When is MJ going to learn from his mistakes? Every move they make is only compounding the problems they have already, we're going to end up like the knicks a few years ago, a bunch of pieces that don't fit and ZERO cap flexibility, meaning we can't change the mediocre team that we have for 2-3 years... it was nice to make the playoffs, but the team they have currently constructed is going nowhere, the right thing to do is to start over.

Should probably look into getting new talent evaluators while you're at it, no reason to accumulate 1st round picks if you're going to squander them on guys like May, Morrison, Augustin, Ajinca, etc.

Posted by: David | Jul 14, 2010 10:23:33 PM

charlottean,

How would trading him 1 for 1 put us over the luxury tax if the money is close? We're not in that territory now.

Posted by: dnbman | Jul 14, 2010 10:29:29 PM

robc......that puts us like 8 million over the tax line. any move with dampier puts us over the tax line. the only way it doesn't is if another team uses a trade exception which would defeat the purpose of dampier's contract to begin with.

david....the problem isn't the guys we picked, but rather what happened with them after they got picked. guys can't break their entire knees in year 2 and be given up on in year 3 or 4 based on their performance 12 months after microfracture surgery. nor can a guy whose production dwindled from a great rookie year getting 27 minutes a game to a below average sophmore year getting 18 minutes a game be called a bad pick. nor can the mavericks next favorite project be referred to as a bust until they determine him to be so.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 14, 2010 10:32:07 PM

dnbman:
Don't mean to speak for charlottean, but I think his point is that with all these other things they're doing, they'd probably have to waive Dampier and his unguaranteed $13 million to stay below that luxury-tax threshold of about $70 million.
So if you trade Dampier for a comparable guaranteed salary, you lose that option.

Posted by: Rick Bonnell | Jul 14, 2010 10:35:54 PM

we were just below the luxury tax prior to the trade. that's why we didn't resign felton. the trade included a trade exception and we were on the low end of the deal. we sent 14 million of payroll and got back 20 because of the exception. the kicker is that 13 of the 20 is dampier's unguarunteed. but if we were to trade dampier instead of waive him, that means we're over the tax again.

not to mention if we actually did sign shaun livingston to the deal reported......that adds 3.5 to the mix also.

we're effed. thanks guys.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 14, 2010 10:42:07 PM

The actual luxury tax is only an issue if the Cats are still in that plight over halfway through the season, not now. There are numerous combinations possible, including making two different trades. But the combination of salaries is helpful. Got to believe a deal is being negotiated now, while there are still deals to be made.

Posted by: Mark | Jul 14, 2010 10:47:09 PM

Charlottean, not necessarily.

1. We don't know what the second trade would be. We could trade down in contract size on both sides of the trade. That would fix it.

2. The second team might have space and could absorb some of our contracts in order to have bigger relief. Think giving them Augustin.

3. The luxury tax isn't applied until the end of the season. We could make a trade now that put us hovering over the tax, but then make a trade later that puts us below.

4. If the trade got us a true stud, I think MJ pays the luxury tax at least for the this season.

We're at the luxury tax, but we have possibilities if the right trade presented itself.

Posted by: dnbman | Jul 14, 2010 10:48:46 PM

Mark, basically right: luxury tax is determined based on the team's salary after the last regular season games.

Posted by: dnbman | Jul 14, 2010 10:56:59 PM

mark....we have until the beginning of the season to trade/waive dampier before his contract becomes guarunteed. we waive dampier, we're below the tax. we keep him and we're over. way over. after that the only way we could get below the line is if somebody takes on salaries for a trade exception.....that usually is only done in a VERY unfavorable way as in......utah sending okc eric maynor for nothing last year because they were going to be over the tax and then subsequently trading memphis ronnie brewer for nothing.

in other words......stop being optimistic. it's annoyingly oblivious to the situation at hand. we don't even have many tradeable players. we now have 3 contracts nobody in the league would touch and 1 more (jackson) that nobody wanted last year and maybe he played good enough to give us an option or two at best. and we have no future cap room because of all of this. we went from having a lot of cap room next year to nothing.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 14, 2010 10:58:58 PM

Sorry, Charlottean. I'll go blow out the candle and huddle in the corner now.

Posted by: dnbman | Jul 14, 2010 11:03:02 PM

Jiggaman, way to be a smartass but CharlotteMaple was quoting the movie Billy Madison.

Posted by: tom P | Jul 14, 2010 11:05:27 PM

Charlottean, you must be the saddest human on the planet. Cheer up

Posted by: tom P | Jul 14, 2010 11:10:21 PM

I have a question for you. If Dampier knows that some team is going to take him and then cut him to reduce their team payroll; why wouldn't he be willing to sign a new Bobcats' contract paying him less money and actually playing for the Bobcats? At least that way, Dampier would get to keep earning money and the Bobcats could reduce their payroll.

Posted by: 4Gross | Jul 14, 2010 11:11:15 PM

I think MJ has said that he would pay the luxury tax if he thought the team could contend i.e. top 4 in the east. So I think he is trying to use Dampier contract to swing for the fences. If he pulls it off, then he doesn't care as much about tax. If he doesn't pull it off, then it ends up as a negative, but I applaud the effort nonetheless. He's not satisfied being a 7 or 8 seed.

Posted by: Ben | Jul 14, 2010 11:18:18 PM

guys i'm trying really hard to be nice, but i don't get how you don't see this. this isn't hard to comprehend.....

1. no team has any reason or incentive to take on our bad contracts and give us cap flexibility unless we throw in assets which makes a huge negative move for us.

2. augustin makes 2.5 million this year. he also has the most potential upside of any of the players, our best shooter not named matt carroll (who won't even play enough to shoot), we would have to play him up enough to where he would be the incentive mentioned in pt 1 for any team to take on a bad contract to help us reduce payroll so that means we would have to wait until augustin was playing lights out basketball great and then trade him. great strategy.

3. trades have to have match up salaries unless you have a trade exception or cap room but you also have to apply the roster space restrictions. we don't have any trade chips that are going to reduce payroll without gutting the team. we just gave up our best 2 trade chips in the worst deal ever. we aren't going to be able to cut payroll and simultaneously get better. this is only gonna get worse.

4. atleast for this season? we just traded away our future cap room so it wouldn't be for just this season. only contract coming off the books after this year now is mohammed and he's the only center we have on the roster now. and let's say hypothetically we drugged N.O. into giving us paul for dampier and let's say augustin. or even paul/okafor for dampier/diaw/mohammed......we're talking about being something like 8 million over the tax so we would be missing out on the tax money dispersal and paying an additional 8 million to make the cost of bringing paul in......23 million this year.......more next year. and we would have no room to manuever and even more bad contracts and a guy that we would be banking the house on resigning when he can opt out after '11-'12.


all of this after jordan specifically said he wouldn't go over the tax unless he felt like we could contend for a title. adding chris paul does not make us championship contenders. chris paul hasn't been ona championship contending team yet and we're talking about pairing him with a mediocre team and a max contract worth of suit wearers.


it doesn't work.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 14, 2010 11:20:50 PM

MJ's dream story!!!We trade Damps 13 mill, Naz's 8 mill or so along with D.J.,G.Henderson and 2, 1st round picks to the hornets. They get 2 good young cheap guys and 2 picks along with saving a boat load of money. We get Oak,Paul and the money should be close on both sides. Next we trade Wallace,Jacks for Mello. The money will be close and they will have Wallace,Jacks,Billups to compete. Since Mello will leave anyways, they will atleast get something in return. We now have Mello paired with Paul and both sign long terms deals with the bobcats. Next year we go out and sign a decent SG,but untill then we sign A.I and the teams looks like this!
Pg-Paul,Livingston
SG-A.I.,Caroll
SF-Mello,
PF-Thomas
C-Oakafor
I can live with that with good young talent!

Posted by: jaybird | Jul 14, 2010 11:21:21 PM

If we're over the cap, he'd have to be resigned with MLE money, if we have any left. My guess is that we'd get out bid.

Posted by: dnbman | Jul 14, 2010 11:24:29 PM

wow. MLE is not to resign the players you already have. larry bird rights allow you to go over the cap to retain what you already have. the MLE is to sign a mid level player from another team when you are over the cap.

and yes i'm sad. probably the saddest. i'm simultaneously an atlanta braves fan and we just traded a career .299 SS in a slump with one of the best arms and best contracts in the game for an overperforming career .248 hitter who gets paid like 5 times as much. its been a rough week for me.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 14, 2010 11:30:09 PM

You missed my point, Charlotte. If we waived him, he'd pass waivers and then essentially be a free agent. At that point, we couldn't sign him because we'd still be over the salary cap. We'd have to use some kind of exception, like the minimum salary or MLE, but I don't think Dampier would sign for that. He's still a valuable player, just not worth nearly $13M.

Posted by: dnbman | Jul 14, 2010 11:34:42 PM

why are yall even talking about ericka dampier? the guy turned 35 TODAY. whenever i say dampier, i'm referring to the mythical creature that is his unguarunteed contract. the player himself no longer exists in the context we knew. he's going into his 15th year with bad knees and i'm sure all kindsa other problems. he wouldn't be of help to us. nobody is concerned with THAT part of it. he's not playing anywhere for 13 million next year, he knows that. he's playing for a couple million at best. he's not worth it to us, we already have old bumps on a log, we need a real center. and we don't have any money to spend anyways.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 14, 2010 11:43:13 PM

Charlottean, the way the money works is we take on more long term debt in exchange for short term debt relief now. Let's use Paul as example:

Dampier for Paul: We gain 2m in salary

That deal works straight up.

Then we trade something like:
Nazr and DJ for Posey: getting 3m in salary back this season.

New Orleans would save almost $22M next season, which would make the organization leaner to sell the franchise.

And that assumes you go up with Dampier's contract rather than down, like trading for a 10M dollar player.

Posted by: dnbman | Jul 14, 2010 11:46:52 PM

Charlottean, I wouldn't want to resign him, but some playoff bound team would probably want him to solidify the center spot on the cheap. The guy can still be effective in limited minutes.

Posted by: dnbman | Jul 14, 2010 11:50:26 PM

wtf are you kidding me???

dampier's contract puts us like 6-8 million over the tax line. and paul makes 2 million more than dampier. HOW DO YOU NOT GET THIS. if we trade nazr (our only expiring contract left) and take back posey (2 yrs left), now we've added to next years payroll significantly AND this years and we're over the tax both years for always and forever.

THERE'S NO SHORT TERM RELIEF, THERE'S NO LONGTERM RELIEF

AND THERE'S NO CHRIS PAUL

HOW CAN YOU NOT GET THIS?

right now. without counting dampiers contract, we're at about 65.3 million with about a 68 million tax line. you add dampier's contract (or paul's in your little effed up fantasy world) and we're wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy over the line.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 14, 2010 11:57:04 PM

The one good thing about this whole thing is at least we are talking about the Bobcats! And at least MJ is trying to do something which is more that has happened in years past

Posted by: Ra | Jul 14, 2010 11:58:45 PM

eff your silver lining ra, michael jordan is playing golf.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 15, 2010 12:04:23 AM

I am from Toronto and I've been reading.

Charlottean is the only one who truly understands.

While all you guys are whipping up dream deals for Arenas and CP3, you lose track of the salary cap.

Teams that go over the cap are the Laker, Celtics, Magic. Teams who have something to show for it.

For the bobcats to go over the cap with a team as bad as this, makes no sense whatsoever.

Bobcat fans, not to disapoint you, but unless you guys get really lucky, and i mean REALLY lucky, this is the beggining of rebuild time. You're team is not competitive enough to compete in your division, nontheless the conference.


And for those of you who think Matt Carroll a big plus for your team, then you have a REAL problem.

Think about it...

Posted by: Dilly from TOR | Jul 15, 2010 12:06:15 AM

Charlottean: here's the math. Take a breather and watch how it works.

We make one deal that is actually two trades. This all works together though to meet NBA rules:

Dampier ($13M) for Paul ($14.8)

Bobcats gain 1.8 in salary this year.

DJ (2.5) and Nazr (6.8) for Posey (6.5) and whatever trade exception NO wants to use.

Bobcats lose almost $3M in salary.

We're still over the cap, but our exchange brings us down a million dollars this year.

If we're not that far over the cap and had a strong squad, Jordan said he would take on the luxury tax, especially for the premier point guard in the league who happens to brand Jordan.

Posted by: dnbman | Jul 15, 2010 12:09:52 AM

Oh, and the luxury tax is over 70.3 million.

Posted by: dnbman | Jul 15, 2010 12:11:55 AM

@dnbman

CP3 for Dampier, not gonna happen.

DJ and Nazr for poser, not gonna happen.

I hope this answers your philosophy

Posted by: Dilly from TOR | Jul 15, 2010 12:11:59 AM

Dilly, it's not about talent at all. Those two trades save the organization $20M, making them easier to sell.

Also, I was just trying to point out that trades could work that make our team better. It's not scorched earth yet.

Posted by: dnbman | Jul 15, 2010 12:16:27 AM

Here is a better way to explain it:

Miami have Lebron,Wade,Bosh,Igauskas,Miller,Haslem,and some role guys, and they are still under the cap.

If charlotte keeps dampier,or trades him for someone else (lets say CP3 for you unrealistic dreamers), they will be over the cap.


Do you guys realize how bad this is?

Posted by: Dilly from TOR | Jul 15, 2010 12:17:30 AM

dude we're not a little over the tax line with that deal.......we're WAY over. and we're giving up augustin (our only pg) and nazr (our only center) to take on posey's contract for an extra year. and we're wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy over the taxline.

again we're at 65.3 approx right now if we WAIVE dampier. if we keep him, we're at approximately 78 million. the deal you just proposed would never be accepted by new orleans but would also have us around 77 million this year and around the same next year too. that would be around 9 million over the TAX LINE. the cap is 58 million the tax line is around 68.

you are retarded. seriously. go read a book and try and get smart or something. this is so easy to understand and you're still arguing it like it isn't what it really is.

are you really rod higgins? tell us the truth.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 15, 2010 12:17:42 AM

LOL Charlottean. Be nice. The salary cap is not an easy thing to understand, dont be so harsh.


Dnbman, i know you mean well dude. But the trade you pointed out doesn't work because..

1.Like charlottean pointed out, charlotte would have NO pg. Big problem.

2. You guys would be waayyyyy over the salary cap for the next 2 years, minimum.

3.And frankly, adding CP3 and Posey will not make charlotte a contender. CP3 had a better supporting cast last year and look how it ended up there.

Just saying.

Posted by: Dilly from TOR | Jul 15, 2010 12:21:36 AM

i just saw where okc has a total payroll of 50 million. that might be wrong but i believe it. I know it will jump up as extensions kick in over the next few years but thats then. and that's a good problem to have....to be able to REMAIN a contender. and actually they have collison, peterson, krstic coming off the books and a whole lot of others with team options.

eff chris paul, we need sam presti.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 15, 2010 12:29:42 AM

Charlottean, the luxury tax is $70.3M, which I know doesn't change your main point.

http://www.nola.com/hornets/index.ssf/2010/07/nba_sets_higher_than_expected.html

While we go over the cap immediately after that deal, we can still make moves that could give us some relief.

However, if Jordan can put Chris Paul out on the court with Jackson, Wallace, Thomas, and anyone o.k. center, he's got a great squad. That's the type of trade that I think would push Jordan to go over the tax.

Again, tax is not applied until the final day of the regular season. We could do something like trade Boris to the Knicks for next to nothing to get closer to the threshold.

Paul aside, we could still trade Dampier down, taking less salary but still getting a quality player.

There's no doubt that waiving Dampier is the easiest and most likely solution. However, there are other realistic alternatives. The fact that the Hornets are for sell doesn't hurt matters for us at all.

Posted by: dnbman | Jul 15, 2010 12:29:55 AM

at least we are talkin about the bobcats and have something to talk about. we gotta realize that jordan WANTS TO WIN he and rod and larry all wanna win and if you really wanna go deep jac will demand a trade if were not trying to win. we still have boris to trade if we do just to dump his salary which would bring us some cap release. i think we starting to panic when we have a ton of time left before the season starts. dont you fret lb will have what ever team we have ready to play next year.

Posted by: reggie | Jul 15, 2010 12:31:23 AM

Dilly, Miami isn't a fair comparison. They're the only team in the league with any kind of arrangement like that. It's going to take everyone else much more salary to remotely begin to compete.

Our situation is bad, but we have options. This isn't a "you don't get it" situation. We just have to be smart with our trades now.

Posted by: dnbman | Jul 15, 2010 12:32:50 AM

and new orleans did not have a better supporting cast last year.

Posted by: reggie | Jul 15, 2010 12:33:47 AM

we are in the toughest divison in the nba. but crash and jac and tt will give everything they have. all we need to do is get better on offense we had arguably the best d in the league last year.

Posted by: reggie | Jul 15, 2010 12:36:10 AM

how is someone OK going to play center for us when we wouldn't have anybody on the roster over 6-8, most of our MLE used and wayyyyyyyyy over the tax? how is paul, jackson, wallace, thomas, and bill cartwright going to compete when they get dismantled at the trade deadline because we can't afford to pay them? all of those guys salaries go up each year. paul gets 16.3 next year, jackson 9.3, wallace 10.65, hell even diops goes up to a staggering 6.9 next year (lotta suits for 7 million).

not to mention all of this gabbering is about this guy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F3tptzEWmM

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 15, 2010 12:38:23 AM

@Dilly from TOR: This is definitley not the beginning of rebuilding.on rebuilding you have young guys with potential, and loads of cap room. We have 1-3 guys w/ potential: Augustine, Henderson, & Brown. And as you guys have been arguing, we have little to no money for the next couple years. This isn't rebuilding, this is just plan failure for years to come.

@dnbman: for Paul, which I would LOVE for us to get, we'd need to trade something like Dampier, Diaw, (maybe) DJ, and 1-2 first round picks, and even then we'd be basically borrowing CP3 because we couldn't resign him and he wouldn't want to resign. I would love as much as the next guy to see Paulbin a 'Cats uniform, but it is NEVER going to happen. Sorry :/

Posted by: Josh | Jul 15, 2010 12:38:52 AM

Here's the Deal, we are going to end up waiving Dampier and his 13 mill come off the books. My bet is that we then we start to reduce payroll, to be able to sign Paul as a free agent, assuming the he opts outs, after 2011/2012. If Paul is the target, then this is the plan.

Posted by: andrew | Jul 15, 2010 12:42:09 AM

we got swept last year in round 1 with felton and chandler. so if we trade that lineup for paul and diop we're going to be championship contenders? i know that's not what yall were THINKING (because yall don't know how to think) but that's what yall are saying. diop would be the only center left on our roster with a payroll around 78 million.


how can yall not see this?

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 15, 2010 12:48:17 AM

reports are we signed livingston to a 2 year 7 million dollar deal.

Posted by: reggie | Jul 15, 2010 12:48:39 AM

andrew....obviously there is no plan.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 15, 2010 12:49:21 AM

Paul will not sign with CHA once he becomes a free agent. I'll bet my life on it.

@Josh, you have to compare those to prospects of other teams. DJ Augustine isn't starting material. Atleast not yet.

The problem with the bobcats now is that

A)they have no wiggle room, money wise

B)They have little to very few assets to use as trade bait

C)They have no prospect talent. I really, REALLY want to know where the bobcats find their scouts! Bobcats drafting has been HORRIBLE. Bust after bust...

Posted by: Dilly from TOR | Jul 15, 2010 12:57:36 AM

CHARLOTTEAN,

I am a raptors fan and although I am upset that MJ flinched, I kind of feel bad for the bobcats cause Dallas put you in a worse position.

How does this sound?
First waive dampier then send Nazr or Diop, whoever has the expiring contact, along with Diaw to Toronto for Calderon.

That way you will have a solid PG combo in calderon and Livingston and you are still under the cap.

hmm i wonder if that would work...

Posted by: Dilly from TOR | Jul 15, 2010 1:04:02 AM

@ Dilly from TOR What are you smoking, if MJ wanted to make that trade he would have already. Also i can see us getting CP3 in some sort of trade.

Posted by: TD _Kid | Jul 15, 2010 1:19:36 AM

TD_Kid...

MJ pulled out from calderon and ended up trading for Dampiers complex but dumpable contract, and 2 deadweight contracts in carroll and naveja. After that, you think MJ will possibly work a trade for CP3? LOL what are you smoking?

Posted by: Dilly from TOR | Jul 15, 2010 1:30:11 AM

Dilly It seems that you still upset that Bosch left.. Then when we found out about the kicker in Calderon's contract and back out you got even more upset. Come on dude you can BS these other peep but not me.

Posted by: TD _Kid | Jul 15, 2010 1:36:19 AM

Why is CP3 brought up soo much on here????Why would he come here, because he wears Jordans???? Get over it Bobcats move to about 13th in the EAST.

Posted by: JC | Jul 15, 2010 2:36:17 AM

@ Dilly If the Raptors is willing to make a with us why not trade someone like Jarrett Jack and Andrea Bargnani? Jack fits our system better.

Posted by: TD_Kid | Jul 15, 2010 7:05:25 AM

@ Dilly If the Raptors is willing to make a with us why not trade someone like Jarrett Jack and Andrea Bargnani? Jack fits our system better.

Posted by: TD_Kid | Jul 15, 2010 7:05:54 AM

trade*

Posted by: TD_Kid | Jul 15, 2010 7:07:36 AM

These Raptor fans crack me up. The Calderon deal is dead, why are you guys still sniffing around Bobcats rumors like it impacts you whatsoever?

Posted by: George | Jul 15, 2010 8:16:35 AM

LOL why are you guys so bitter?

I am a big nba fan. I like talking ball, even if its not about the raps.

I just feel bad that unless MJ makes a super deal where he fleeces another team badly, you guys are pretty much screwed. And the funny thing is alot of you don't even realize it!

Do you read some of the things you guys write? OHH we're gonna get CP3!! OH MAN, we are gonna trade dampier's dead contract for a legit star! loolll... Don't be mad at me, be mad at Rod Higgins, MJ's puppet.


MJ is the only person who does deals on the golf course. smh.

Posted by: Dilly from TOR | Jul 15, 2010 8:29:17 AM

Look man, I agree. The Paul rumors sound outlandish.

But your attempts at raining on Bobcats fans just make it look like your pissed with MJ for not letting Colangelo fleece him in the Calderon deal. No one knows what will become of Dampier, just have to let that play out.

Posted by: George | Jul 15, 2010 8:47:34 AM

he's not reeeeeally doing that much raining. rod higgins already did that.

i just can't wrap my head around it. we used a trade exception to aquire a contract we have to waive to stay under the cap. i just don't see how ANYBODY could have looked at this deal and said "YES, DO IT, NOW." i don't get it.

rick can we please get a video interview/apology from rod higgins or MJ? or even better a reactionairy video from larry brown? i need to know that somebody in the organization REALIZES after the fact what they just did.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 15, 2010 9:16:05 AM

Dude, Im not pissed at all.

Rumour has it that Indiana trading Hibbert and Dunleavy, or Dunleavy and Murphy (2 big expiring contracts) for Calderon and Evans.

So with this trade, we are getting more cap space then the Diaw and Chandler deal. I'm happy as hell! Toronto is set up nicely for the next 2 years...

Charlotte? Not so much... I trying to see different alternatives with the dampier contract. And there isn't much. Not much at all.

Posted by: Dilly from TOR | Jul 15, 2010 9:33:38 AM

Dilly just calm down, I'm sure MJ is doing the best he can right now, we're just getting started you wait and see, and don't bet your life yet on us not getting CP3.

Posted by: Dan | Jul 15, 2010 10:01:30 AM

Why is there a question of whether he can be traded? Didn't we just trade for him? haha

Posted by: Brian | Jul 15, 2010 10:19:24 AM

@ Dilly ya man i heared that Pacers trade too. and they need a better PG than Ford. I also heared the Raps watched Adam Morrison work out. I like the comments section on this blog. its a lot more live than the one in toronto and with all these CP3 talk its more entertaining as well.

That guy who said the Cats backed out because they found out about Jose's trade kicker. If the deal was agreed on and MJ and Hig didnt know about the trade kicker then they are officially the worst execs. They new about it but wanted Dampier and wanted to take a risk with livingston.

Jack doesnt fit the system better. he is more of a combo guard but the cats need a true PG.

Posted by: Matt from T.O | Jul 15, 2010 10:19:24 AM

The thing about Toronto clearing out all that space, is you guys are in the same boat as us: no good free agent wants to play there so you have overpay for guys who aren't necessarily a great fit (like Turkoglu).

Obviously having cap space can't hurt, as long as you don't blow it on guys who aren't that good. Colangelo doesn't have the best track record in that respect though.

It's not clear what Charlotte's up to right now, but we're definitely looking to improve for next season rather than rebuild. I'm not sure I would go the same route but I haven't been in these trade discussions.

Posted by: George | Jul 15, 2010 10:21:33 AM

and lets end all of this Raptor/Bobcat fans hate. that was so two days ago. let just talk B-ball. lets make nice. Me and Dill will send you some Maple syrup if you guys send us some krispy Kreme

Posted by: Matt from T.O | Jul 15, 2010 10:22:40 AM

@George ur kinda right in that its hard to get FAs to go to toronto but once they are there some re-sign which goes to show that as long as a team is winning players will sign wherever. If the cats have another year or to like last year and DJ turns into something i think Jack and wallace would re-sign and other FAs would go there. The thing about CP3 tho, just like with Bosh, i think he wants not a big market team but a huge market team. he wants to be on billboards, magazines and sneakers ect. I think a big part of why Bosh left T.O was because he couldnt get as much exposure there. i dont think ppl other than T.O fans watched Bosh and the Raps but people in every city will watch Miami so he will get more famous

Posted by: Matt from T.O | Jul 15, 2010 10:26:57 AM

somebody at hoopshype is playing a mean game http://hoopshype.com/salaries/charlotte.htm

they took gana diop's contract out of the equation....they're also showing tyrus thomas making 12 million this year which is what I heard to begin with so yea...we're effed. we probably could have bought out tyson chandler for like 8 or 9 million and saved the same amount this year and wayyyyyyy more next year.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 15, 2010 10:27:45 AM

@Matt Man, I really don't care about this season. I'm looking forward to the 2011 draft. We got 2 first round picks. He we could get 2 awesome picks, with the fast improvement of Derozan, weems and Davis, (Also Dorsey and Alabi, but that could be longer) with all the cap space, we will have an exciting solid young core(they are average age 23) and we could sign some key guys..

Back to charlotte, why are you telling me to calm down? lol im not even upset. I just sympathize with what you guys are going through. I feel for Charlottean.
He actually understands the financial restrictions the bobcats have right. And NO, CP3 deal will NOT happen.

I have an honest question...TO ALL CHARLOTTE fans...

I know CP3 is a local boy..but if LeBron can leave a 60 win team in his native of cleveland(or akron), then i doubt CP3 will go to a mediocre team like charlotte.


If CP3 is available for trade, there are wayyyyy more teams that are better suiting him with more cap space and better assets.


Face it, it's not happening.. Sorry to rain on your parade boys.

Posted by: Dilly from TOR | Jul 15, 2010 10:30:38 AM

Two 1st-round picks for 3 guys who won't even play? That's not a good trade?

Guys...the Bobcats DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING! Why is this a surprise? They don't have a legitimate front office, they have MJ and his pals. Higgins and Whitfield ran the Wizards into the ground along with MJ. Look at their resume, what's in their background that says we should expect them to excel with the Bobcats?

Embrace mediocrity guys, it's here to stay!

Posted by: BobsRealist | Jul 15, 2010 10:32:03 AM

lets face it MJ will end up tradeing for g.arenas (wait 2 months) then trade b.diaw and damps contract maybe throw in dj as well and avoid paying the luxury tax

Posted by: jason winks | Jul 15, 2010 10:32:13 AM

@BobsRealist - you have the best name here

Posted by: Matt from T.O | Jul 15, 2010 10:34:42 AM

Why is the Dilly clown still hanging around this board...these dumb ass Raptor fans are really starting to piss me off. Go worry about your own sorry team & let Charlotte worry about the Bobcats

Posted by: Toriano | Jul 15, 2010 10:39:02 AM

I wonder if they held on to Morrison longer if he would've developed. sure he is a bench warmer now but thats on the Lakers. Morrison was supposed to be the next Larry Bird. remember his commercial where he was like " ya i cried. when i get to the NBA more people will cry" Truer word have never been said

Posted by: Matt from T.O | Jul 15, 2010 10:40:48 AM

CharlotteMaple, great billy madison reference! although the guy made good points lol the timing was right for that one.

Posted by: kyle | Jul 15, 2010 10:43:57 AM

This team is the Titanic and Mike Jordan is the iceberg.

Posted by: Brian | Jul 15, 2010 10:46:54 AM

Well looks like that Maple Syrup isn't going to be mailed any time soon

Posted by: Matt from T.O | Jul 15, 2010 11:02:15 AM

@ Dill what does espn rumour page say where Adam Morrison might be headed? i dont subscribe

Posted by: Matt from T.O | Jul 15, 2010 11:11:36 AM

@Matt It says he is working out for the Celtics and the kings are watching him too.. Nothing mentioned about the raps.

In the insider free agent report, the only person they said is possible to the raps is Luis Scola from the Rockets.

Posted by: Dilly from TOR | Jul 15, 2010 11:15:40 AM

morrison could have been bird. but here in charlotte, veterans like flip murray and larry hughes get applauded for 30% shooting and morrison gets killed over 38% shooting as a rookie or 2nd year guy coming off knee surgery.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 15, 2010 11:26:58 AM

@ charlottean- i think a lot was expected of him b/c he was such a high pick. plus he averaged like 28 points per game at Gonzaga at one point. didnt Brown say that Morrison couldnt handle the pressure of his hype?

Posted by: Matt from T.O | Jul 15, 2010 11:36:12 AM

either way Marrison has more Champ rings than Lebron

Posted by: Matt from T.O | Jul 15, 2010 11:59:25 AM

The Bobcats will be netter served trying to unload assets for any 2011 draft picks they can obtain. H. Barnes or Perry Jones would be a nice building block.

Posted by: Yanni C | Jul 15, 2010 12:06:54 PM

anyone else wish we did the Calderon trade instead?

Posted by: Catnation | Jul 15, 2010 12:54:25 PM

Dilly thats big talk considering your all way up in Toronto, my problem w/ you & the rest of your Raptors fans is that every since this trade didnt happen, all of a sudden you guys are flooding the Bobcats board on every site with negativity...your like the chick we dumped that wont stop coming around or calling!! If you want to talk basketball kid we can, but how the hell are you guys such bobcats experts all of a sudden. I've been on this board & other for years...never seen you clowns before this week but now all of a sudden you guys know it all?!? GTFOH

Posted by: Toriano | Jul 15, 2010 12:55:39 PM

http://forums.hoopshype.com/forums/index.php?topic=58455.0

Posted by: jason winks | Jul 15, 2010 12:55:56 PM

@Toriano first you said "if you wanna talk ball kid we can"..then you said GTFO?

Posted by: Matt | Jul 15, 2010 1:31:36 PM

lol...common guys, leave toriano alone.. it`s not his fault... Anger can cause one to say stupid sh*t sometimes...

Posted by: Dilly from TOR | Jul 15, 2010 1:43:52 PM

Dilly... unlike most i can appreciate other fans coming here, i do the same to other sites and i apologize for the surprisng amount of ignorant jackasses that reside in charlotte.

however i must confess, you and charlottean are dead wrong on cp3 deal. in fact ive heard paperwork already sent it yesterday jordan wanted to wait until fri with the espys to announce it.

i may be way off but heard this from a guy whose history in things like this are impeccable.

i thought MJ the dufus owner as everyone else but he may surprise us... the trade after the cp3 one is the trade everyone will really be talking about though.

if i am wrong i will be here do admit my shame i hope dilly and charlottean will do the same if their respected opinions are proved to be not the case as well.

Posted by: Will | Jul 15, 2010 3:39:38 PM

Will: What 2nd trade are you talking about?

Anyway I can see us waiving Dampier, signing AI for the vet min. and re-signing Graham. Then we'll be:

AI/Augustin/Livingston
Jackson/Henderson/Carroll
Nazr/Diop/?
Diaw/Thomas/Najera
Wallace/Graham/Brown

Obvious weakness at the 5. I can see LB finding another Ratliff type player to help out there.

Basically we traded Chandler's expiring to solidify the bench.

Posted by: apauldds | Jul 15, 2010 4:02:13 PM

it's not so much that logistically it's impossible......it's that we'd be wayyyyyyyyyyyy over the tax and unless N.O. is as retarded as we must be........we're going to have to give up a lot of young talent, draft picks, and or take back more bad contracts. I just don't buy that jordan is going from "we're not going over the tax line unless we're contenders" to paying nearly 90 million in payroll with no bench. I could see it if we were losing game 7 of the 2nd round and he was rolling the dice to get us over the hump but getting swept in round 1 doesn't scream "all we need is chris paul and more bad contracts"

if they get paul, jordan was wrong, not me. if they get paul AND manage to get under the tax line......then i'll admit i'm wrong. and i'll be here to do so, i'm holding out hope it goes that way but i know better.


and what do we have that dallas didn't or couldn't obtain via a 3rd team?


Posted by: charlottean | Jul 15, 2010 4:12:54 PM

@apauldds i unno man. That stuff makes sense but look at Iverson now. didnt want him in Denver, Detroit, Memphis, or Philly. Plus he demands the ball so much he will take touches away from Jax and G-wall. if ur gonna sign a graham might as well make it both Joey and steph. I wanna see how the PG situations plays out if they splits PG time evenly between DJ and Shawn

Posted by: Matt | Jul 15, 2010 4:14:26 PM

@charlottean true - and if Chris Paul leaves after 2 years ur probably going to be stuck with those bad contracts still

Posted by: Matt | Jul 15, 2010 4:15:58 PM

Matt: I see your point. The advantage to AI would be ticket sales and reuniting with LB. I would love for Livingston to work out and maybe that's what will happen. They need to get a 3rd PG regardless in order to keep LB happy.

Posted by: apauldds | Jul 15, 2010 4:23:53 PM

The ideal situation for CP3 and the bobcats would be..

If I was MJ, I would start rebuilding for the cats. Meaning, I'd get CP3, and give N.O whatever they want for for him, excluding draft picks. Which would then get rid of some big or bad contracts. Then I would use CP3 and trade him for some young talent and some first round draft pick. That would give bobcats some young prospects and some draft picks, hoping that they wont draft bust after bust like they do. I'm convince you guys don't have scouts. Just MJ and Rod Higgins wingin it on draft day.

Posted by: Dilly from TOR | Jul 15, 2010 4:27:41 PM

@apauldds shoot i totally forgot LB coached A.I. If there is ONE guy to keep A.I inline its LB

Posted by: Matt | Jul 15, 2010 4:27:42 PM

wait now we're talking about iverson? seriously? yall don't think that we would have already signed iverson BEFORE we signed livingston? and i don't think people are paying to see iverson anymore either.

yall have got to be kidding. and rebuild around chris paul? because that's what he's going to do.....come here, get surrounded by a bunch of young guys for 2 years.....win 30 games at best and then......resign? seriously?

think guys. think. please.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 15, 2010 4:48:29 PM

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