December 14, 2011
3-pt. specialist Reggie Williams a Bobcat
The Charlotte Bobcats are signing former Golden State Warrior Reggie Williams to address their 3-point shooting flaw.
Williams shot 40.5 percent from 3-point range in 104 games with the Warriors. Bobcats player-personnel chief Rod Higgins confirmed early Wednesday evening that he had an agreement in principle with Williams.
Coach Paul Silas has long been lobbying for a long-range shooter, after the Bobcats finished last season second-worst in the NBA in 3-point percentage.
Williams was originally a restricted free agent, but the Warriors rescinded his qualifying offer to sign Los Angeles Clippers forward DeAndre Jordan to an offer sheet. The Clippers matched that offer sheet.
Posted by Observer Sports on December 14, 2011 at 06:59 PM | Permalink
What was Matt Carrol? Does this signing signal another ending for him w/ the Bobcats? Also, is Reggie a better defender than Matt?
Posted by: jrguyiii | Dec 14, 2011 7:26:39 PM
this isn't a bad move at all. if nothing more, he's much younger than carroll which fits in better with the rebuilding.
that makes 14.....unless they plan on eating najera's contract.....not sure they would want to sign cunningham and carry a 15 man roster from jumpstreet.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 14, 2011 7:44:19 PM
Reggie Williams led the NCAA in scoring twice at VMI (Virginia Military Institute). I like this pick up.
Posted by: D1F | Dec 14, 2011 7:45:37 PM
ahhh... now this i understand... a good pick up from our GM. The GM must be scratchin his bald head ryt now for a good pick on a limited budget. geez. but who knows. diamonds are everywhere. just needs a little polishing here and there.
Posted by: arky | Dec 14, 2011 7:56:30 PM
I'm actually pleasantly surprised they were able to pick up Williams at a good price, especially considering all the other teams that were looking at him. Now the Bobcats FINALLY have someone that can shoot the 3-ball.
Posted by: PantherDave | Dec 14, 2011 8:23:48 PM
I like it!
Posted by: DL | Dec 14, 2011 8:42:13 PM
Reggie Miller is coming back from retirement? Wasn't he a TV commentator? It's good to see the Bobcats giving the old guys another chance...
Posted by: Luc Longley | Dec 14, 2011 8:49:56 PM
Thats Reggie Williams not Reggie Miller
Posted by: D1F | Dec 14, 2011 9:01:04 PM
I like this pickup. The other, Melvin Ely, is not even an upgrade over Diop.
Posted by: Bill | Dec 14, 2011 9:04:44 PM
23 years ago this month, the brand new and fledging Charlotte Hornets, winners of just 20 games in 1988, beat Michael Jordan and the Bulls at the buzzer at the Hive. If Bobcats' management could bottle up just 15% of the fun, the energy, the enthusiasm and all the good feelings that were at that game, they would be successful.
Posted by: Older than Dirt | Dec 14, 2011 9:32:57 PM
Great pickup...really is a great pickup. We need a center obviously but this team could be ok with a FA center and Bizmack on board. I'll watch.
Posted by: Brian | Dec 14, 2011 10:14:07 PM
It's a good move, and hopefully Reggie Williams will be a keeper and part of the rebuilding.
As for the 3-point shooting, I was really hoping Matt Carroll will get his chance for more serious playing time this season, but that seems to be fading away now.
The new Bobcat is probably about as good a spot-up long range shooter as Matt (who just needs consistent minutes to give you 40% from behind the arc), and is not a better defender; both lack lateral quickness. Actually, Matt is the better defender, because he's persistent in chasing guards who dribbled past him, and is able to change or block their shots from behind (a quality which wasn't noticed by many Bobcats fans).
Reggie Williams' advantages over Matt: better overall scorer, better ability to create his own shot and score in motion (not just spotting up), and, he's 3 years younger, which matters for a rebuilding team.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 14, 2011 10:16:13 PM
This dude is a proven 3 point shooter and has a lot of hustle plays. I watched a lot of the golden state games. This is what I was preaching earlier fairweather fans that continue to diss the team in the rebuilding process. They will surprise you people watch and see. I think we need another center because Ely is not a defender but he is a big body. Tyrus can play sometimes but they will address the issues. They want to better this team and the talent is there. Young talent.
Posted by: tbird | Dec 14, 2011 10:21:59 PM
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH THANK YOU. This guy in actually pretty damn good. Averaged 9 last year because they had Wright playing SF. But when Williams started in 09-10 he averaged 15 points 4 rebounds 2 assists. He can shoot the 3 well and is a scorer. He is a alright defender
Posted by: Austin McClellan | Dec 14, 2011 11:15:01 PM
Solid pickup by the Bobs. I really like all of the management moves so far. They showed restraint by letting Kwame go, 7 million is a bit too much for him despite his play last season.
Posted by: Clay | Dec 14, 2011 11:54:16 PM
Not to nitpick sandy but dude is 6 years younger than carroll. Matt will be backing up boris at center anyways.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 15, 2011 12:17:02 AM
I look forward to the day when Diop, Carroll, and Maggettes contracts expire. I would include Diaw, but his expires after this year.
Posted by: Jason Warren | Dec 15, 2011 12:38:51 AM
You're right charlottean, thank you.
HoopsHype has Reggie Williams born in '83 - Matt is born in '80 - but every other site shows R.W. is born in '86, so '86 it is.
I still don't like the way Matt is treated by this organization (though, again, Reggie W. is a good addition to the team), but I liked your joke on it.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 15, 2011 12:41:01 AM
Another smart move by the cats. Refused to overpay kwame and now this.
Posted by: crymeariver | Dec 15, 2011 1:04:05 AM
Nice move from the cats this time.
But I don't understand why they didn't use the amnesty on Diop to resign Kwame, maybe a bit overpaid, but really, they Needed Kwame !
Posted by: Radu | Dec 15, 2011 2:22:49 AM
Carroll should love the way this organization has treated him. We gave him a very hefty, and long contract. If he wants minutes he simply as to beat out Williams. Its that simple.
Posted by: Jason Warren | Dec 15, 2011 2:39:23 AM
::clap, clap, clap::
Posted by: tmack652 | Dec 15, 2011 3:35:55 AM
Man. If Reggie and Kemba anchor a 2nd unit. We could score some points.. Remember some of Larry Browns second teams? They could go 10 minutes without scoring.
Posted by: Cranky | Dec 15, 2011 7:03:59 AM
Carroll is actually a decent defender. In his first stint here, he gave Kobe fits in a game here early in our recent run of dominance over the Lakers. I think Reggie Williams shoots a little better, but we'll need both of them on the roster for when someone in front of them gets hurt. And somebody will; somebody always does on this team. It appears this team probably goes 20-46 this year, good for 3rd- or 4th-worst, but I remain skeptical that we'll get a decent slot in the lottery.
Posted by: J | Dec 15, 2011 8:27:58 AM
"Carroll should love the way this organization has treated him." Yes, Jason Warren, that was true for Bernie Bickerstaff's time - playing time, contract. Not anymore, beginning with the '08-'09 season.
No question, Matt Carroll goes now to the end of the bench. Look, I clearly acknowledged Reggie Williams' advantages over Matt, as a scorer, and also age-wise (which is important for a rebuilding project). I can still say that I'm sorry to see a player's talent not being well used - which happens to Matt repeatedly since 2008.
Oh well, it happened, and it will always happen, to a lot of players. It happened to Reggie Williams too, this season when he played in Spain: he only got 11 mpg, and averaged 5 ppg. Of course he can do much better than that!
Knowing Matt's work ethics, no doubt he'll keep working hard and be ready in case opportunity comes his way once again. Nobody wishes for injuries, I hope Reggie Williams (and Hendo too!) will stay healthy and will be very successful with the Bobcats - but, that's Matt's job now as a reserve: to be ready for any time he MAY become needed.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 15, 2011 9:55:57 AM
No team should ever be considered a legitimate NBA team with a player like Matt Carroll getting signficant minutes, much less a roster spot. The "talent" that is not being utilized consists of a slow-footed white guy who can't create his own shot, and has an above average spot-up jumper when he's open. Carroll is a great person off the court and in the community but is hardly an NBA quality player. Hopefully this is a sign of things beginning to move in the right direction, and I applaud the move to sign Williams and relegate Carroll to the end of the bench.
Posted by: Joey | Dec 15, 2011 11:12:42 AM
I agree with Sandy. Matt has definitely been through some rough times with the Bobcats. I was disappointed when he was traded away to the Dallas Mavericks awhile back, but glad he was brought back later on. I hope we keep him around, at least as a reserve for this team. I love the Reggie Williams signing, and I think he'll be a great contributor to the team! Before everyone starts declaring that we have no talent whatsoever, watch some games and see what they can do.
Posted by: Jay | Dec 15, 2011 11:13:50 AM
What does "white guy" have to do with anything? There was no point in acknowledging his race. Matt has actually shown in games that he can be a decent contributor. I give you credit for saying he's a great person off the court, but I disagree that he should be thrown to the end of the bench. He's got talent, or else he wouldn't have stayed in the NBA for this long. Reggie Williams may in fact be the better player, but Matt is still a good player for the Bobcats. The team is definitely moving in the right direction though.
Posted by: Jay | Dec 15, 2011 11:18:24 AM
Joey, shame on you for throwing race into this discussion.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 15, 2011 11:30:03 AM
yea this IS the organization that gave matt carroll his shot AND 25 million so I don't think dude has any kind of grudge about playing time.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 15, 2011 11:32:31 AM
Hey Charlottean are you smoking crack again?
Matt didn't get 25 million....again another dumbass comment from the village idiot. Crawl back in your momma's basement and stay there.
Posted by: really? | Dec 15, 2011 11:37:51 AM
Joey you are a dumbass.
Posted by: really? | Dec 15, 2011 11:39:13 AM
Charlottean, if you don't want confusion and misunderstandings around your comment, you should've added that Matt's contract is that amount for 6 years. Six years, not one (like Kobe!). But hey, it's more spectacular to just throw that impressive figure in the air!
And if you read about Matt, you should have no doubt that he wants to play and contribute; he's far from being the kind of guy happy to cash in for riding pine. There are such guys, but not Matt.
Anyway, this is too much treading water. It is what it is, and I can only hope that Reggie W. will do a good job for the 'Cats.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 15, 2011 12:04:05 PM
Anyone who thought Matt Carroll was making 25 million per clearly doesn't follow NBA basketball, let alone the Bobcats.
Posted by: Mike | Dec 15, 2011 12:18:58 PM
Any news about possible trade scenarios?
Although this move could certainly "screw" the Bobcats chances at a Top 5 pick in 2012 and give them another 9-11 pick, but from a competitive view, it would be good and it makes sense:
Charlotte Bobcats Gets:
Chris Kaman ($12.2M Expiring Contract)
New Orleans Hornets Gets:
Boris Diaw ($9M Expiring Contract)
Eduardo Najera $2.6 Expiring Contract)
NOLA needs PF's and Bobcats need a Center. They are all expiring contracts.
My only concer is that both Boris and/or Kaman are in contract years, which could meaan they will want to play hard to get one last big paycheck. In the weak East where the last two playoff's spot could be hade by "anyone", this move could screw our chances at a high Top 5 or Top 3 pick.
NO, I"M NOT EVEN IMPLYING THE BOBCATS COULD MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. But a team with:
this team can actually end up 9-10 in the East and completly out of the Top 8 in the draft. And that would be bad for this team in such a deep 2012 Draft.
Posted by: RobC | Dec 15, 2011 1:12:38 PM
did i EVER say per year?! do you guys even read. we gave him a 25 million dollar contract. FACT. i never said he made 25 million a year. i shouldn't have to add that it was over 6 years, YOU GUYS SHOULD KNOW THAT ALREADY.
we still gave him more than we should have, given that he wasn't going to be given the chance to earn it. he played his way into the contract and then we didn't use him during the life of it. and managed to trade him for diop and then trade tyson chandler for him so we could pay both he AND diop and not use em.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 15, 2011 1:43:10 PM
You're too arrogant charlottean.
Yes, you had to add that it's for 6 years. "You guys should know that".
Well, those who knew the number of years also knew the $ amount, and didn't need you to repeat it.
Why did you bother to write it, if you assume other fans know it ?! You could've just written your opinion ("this player is overpaid"), and not repeat facts you assume are known.
You can't have it both ways, mr. arrogant. Either you give the correct facts ("25 mil per 6 years"), or you don't bother repeating known facts. But, you certainly shouldn't throw a big fat figure without the pay period, to make a bigger impression.
How would you like somebody to tell you: "I'm a public middle school teacher, and the salary they paid me was $500,000." You'd either say: "Wow, what a crazy overpayment!", or, you'd say: "That was over the past 10-11 years, wasn't it ?".
In ANY CASE, you'd say the person's statement was skewed and misleading.
Back to basketball. The way Matt played before getting that contract, I think he earned a 4X4 (16 mil per 4 years) contract. So, yeah, Bernie splurged on him; on the other hand, after 2008 he became underutilized. I wish that could change, and I accept that it won't (unless the injury bug bites other players, which I certainly wish WON'T happen).
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 15, 2011 2:40:05 PM
Posted by: C.Bax | Dec 15, 2011 3:49:24 PM
Can you believe the Angels gave Pujols $250 million?
Posted by: Sambo | Dec 15, 2011 5:12:14 PM
it makes me arrogant that when i say "they gave matt carroll 25 million" (which was actually 27) people flip their ish like I was talking about yearly salary instead of being able to infer what I was talking about?
If that's arrogance, call me trump. IMO that's just stupid mfers talking before they actually think.
your example lacks merit because i never used the word salary.
same guys that don't understand how valuable it would have been to sign kwame to the one year deal and then trade him in a month or whenever you can. same people that wanted to trade dj and boris for jose calderon last year. etc. etc. etc. same kind of people as rod higgins in other words.
and carroll deserved the contract, but that doesn't mean he earned it based on play prior to the contract. that doesn't make sense given the bobcats gave him his chance to begin with. they didn't give him the chance to earn it, but the guy only played significant minutes in year 1 of a 6 year deal. had nothing to do with him, but everything to do with how poor this organization has been run. signing guys to long term deals with no long term plan.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 15, 2011 5:17:54 PM
Ahhhhhh....progress...it can be painful...
Good pickup by the Bobcats. I do worry about the middle of the floor though. That 5 spot on either end of the court could be tough on the team this season. Assuming Diop is 'out' then you have Pryz and Ely. Ely has always impressed me more as a 4 than a 5, but he can play the role. They need another Mark Eaton type to spell Pryz when he's out.
Lotsa youth and then there are also some young players. Yeah...even the youth on this team is young. I wouldn't be all that surprised to see some wily 10-15 year vet signed to help instill some 'old man law' on the floor.
Posted by: sc_cards | Dec 15, 2011 6:37:06 PM
And he is now out 6-8 weeks with a torn meniscus. Sounds about like Charlottes luck.
Posted by: Jason Warren | Dec 15, 2011 6:57:08 PM
So how come the almighty matt carol was not used at all in Dallas. They misused him in that organization too? He signed that contract and never was the same. Any other player would be called overpaid. So to me, he is overpaid.
Posted by: crymeariver | Dec 15, 2011 9:49:03 PM
To all Bobcats fans, please skip my comment below. I wish I wouldn't have to waste my time typing it, but still, I'll answer charlottean (5:17 p.m.).
So, unless you're charlottean PLEASE skip this. Seriously. You have been warned.
1. Somebody who refuses to admit when he's obviously wrong (as in, e.g., giving a skewed version of facts) shall be called "arrogant". That's you, ch. (as an usual thing, not just this time).
2. Both pro athletes and teachers (and, so many others) are paid salaries - whether the all-important mr. arrogant used that word or not. So, my example was a perfectly matched one, just replace the profession and numbers in it, and it turns into the same story exactly.
3. When a pro player is given a contract, the word "earned" is frequently used in reference to his previous performance, to mean the same as "deserved" (very much as in "earning", or "being deserving of", a prize, which a big contract certainly is). It is common usage, though in a different sense than "earned" as in having earned it after having performed the job that salary pays for. What can you do, same word can be used with different meanings.
4. When arguing angrily against my comments, you also mentioned support for a trade for Calderon. There was such support, but not from me. Yet, you say "same people", and all the rest of your comment was arguing with me. As for not re-signing Kwame for 7 mil for one year, most fans (including me) agreed with the management. You have a right to your opinion, but your manner of writing is, again, excessively self-righteous and arrogant, as you're in possession of a great truth that the other poor benighted minds aren't capable to see. You do this very frequently, whether you're aware of it or not.
5. You have an insatiable passion for arguing, on and on. How many time you posted already your opinion on the Kwame deal, just to argue again and again with the rest of us, benighted minds? How many times in the past you went on campaigning for your ideas, repeating them again and again, day after day, week after week?
I remember now that thing, with Gerald leaving the court before some crucial FTs because he was in serious pain - you stated your opinion, me and other fans stated an opposite opinion, and then we couldn't see the end of it, because you wanted to argue on it endlessly. I remember answering you once, then I gave up. And you kept bringing it up over and over.
Darn, I wasted a lot of precious time on this; I had no interest in arguing, but I felt you had to be answered.
This time, not again.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 15, 2011 10:12:15 PM
All whinning matt carol fans should be happy now.
Posted by: crymeariver | Dec 15, 2011 10:17:30 PM
There was a news update posted on rotoworld that Bismack Biyombo wasn't cleared for the season. Anybody have any info on this?
Posted by: Tyler | Dec 15, 2011 10:17:32 PM
Is it true that the FIBA just ruled that Biyombo cant play here? Can we buy his contract out? Any hope he gets a chance to play this year. Whats the latest, saw it on rotoworld, but cant find any thing else confirming it
Posted by: Rob | Dec 15, 2011 10:36:50 PM
So looks like the only free agent the cats could attract won't even be able to play half the season, if that. FML.
Posted by: apauldds | Dec 16, 2011 7:36:41 AM
You got to be sh!ting me, guess there is no point in commenting. So we had 14 guys now we are down 2 with a compressed season when we are going to need everybody contributing on this concentrated season.
Posted by: David Stern gas to go!! | Dec 16, 2011 8:31:34 AM
Is it too difficult to report the terms of the contract Wicky Bonnell?
Posted by: Sambo | Dec 16, 2011 8:54:18 AM
i completely forgot about wallace leaving the floor with the game on the line. hilarious of you to remind me. THAT DUDE LEFT THE FLOOR WITH THE GAME ON THE LINE FOR A NON-INJURY.
and no, it's not arrogant of me to say "matt carroll got 25 million" and not feel the need to say "matt carroll got 25 (27) million over 6 years broken down as year 1 salarY: _____ year 2 salary: ________"
FOH. you're just mad. he signed a 27 million dollar contract. anybody that's a bobcats fan remembers because we were ALL happy he got it when he got it.
i'm not arrogant I just hate stupid people.
and regarding biyombo, he SHOULD still have the option of just paying the buyout which I believe to still be his plan. I can't remember what the total is, but I think it's like 1.5 million. so a million after the team pays 500k. that should still leave him ahead THIS year because a #7 pick gets around 2 if i'm not mistaken. i don't think he was getting a mil out in spain this year.
could be wrong on this, but that's the way it was reported back in june. i'm not sure on the buyout number but I remember it being reasonable enough to pay out of pocket unlike rubios which was like 4 or 5 million.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 16, 2011 9:43:10 AM
Hoops Hype is reporting that Biyombo's case was dismissed, and the trial won't take place. FIBA also denied his transfer request, which means that he's not likely to play here this year.
Way to be on top of it CO!
Posted by: Phillip | Dec 16, 2011 10:48:11 AM
Bizmack will at least be playing overseas and hopefully improving. We need to get better via the draft and the next one should be pretty loaded. Maybe its our time to be bad again, if only for 1 more year...hopefully!
Posted by: Brian | Dec 16, 2011 11:17:47 AM
i'm still not seeing where he's forced to play overseas and or sitout.
that's not what the case was about. the case was about whether or not the contract was valid. they're saying the contract is valid, so dude has to pay the buyout.
i still can't see where the number is unreasonable to be paid.....hoopshype says 1.2 million....i thought it was more than that but that would only leave 700k to be paid. dude is gonna make about 2 million this year........he just has to pay the buyout.
am i missing something?
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 16, 2011 12:19:11 PM
Biyombo can't pay his share of the buyout because he wasn't paid yet any salary by the Bobcats. He can't be paid by the Bobcats before he signs a contract with this franchise, and it's impossible for him to sign that contract because he's under contract with Fuenlabrada.
This was so easily predictable since he was drafted, that I can't understand how the management didn't see it coming, and didn't advise the player to play in the Spanish league this season, for the sake of his development. Not only his team already played 11 games this season, but the way he turned his back on them makes me wonder whether he can still go back to play for them, or it's a case of burnt bridges. Hopefully, he can.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 16, 2011 1:17:12 PM
In terms of personal relationships, I thought it might be kind of hard for him to show up there, after being so publicly outspoken, that he doesn't want to do it, and after missing quite a chunk of the season (and the preseason).
But since the contract stands, he should just swallow his pride and go back and do his best for his own development.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 16, 2011 1:35:40 PM
I am a fan, but this is ridiculous. No Biyombo. Acquire a gaurd that can't play, absolutely no back-plan for Kwame. We were never going to be good, but for the love of God field a team. I was going to get tickets just to watch DJ, Gerlad and Kemba, but forget it, they are going to get destroyed. It will be hard to even tell if they are developing. If Silas wins 20 games he deserves coach of the year.
Who exactly is in charge of the roster? I would have been fired if I was that unprepared for my job.
Posted by: Skip | Dec 16, 2011 2:02:02 PM
since when do banks not lend to nba players under these circumstances?
his agent can't get 700-900k financed? what is that?! that can't possibly be the facts there has to be something missing here.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 16, 2011 2:28:29 PM
i don't think everyone would have been adamant about him playing here this year if he couldn't just pay the buyout.
this has to be a case of misinformation on the internet.
and i hope that's the case about najera being out 6-8 weeks also. not that he was in the plans or anything, but if diop isn't ready, williams is out, biyombo is in limbo........cunningham unsigned and possibly not even still having QO on the table anymore..........that leaves 10 guys INCLUDING melvin ely.
i joked about matt carroll being our backup center but as it stands right now.......we're like one injury away from that happening. somebody tell matt to get on the boris diet and bulk up. somebody get that man a segway.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 16, 2011 2:49:42 PM
The team is actually asking for 4 million Euro, not dollars. According to the current exchange rate, he's looking at 5.27 million dollars. Also, the 1.2 was the original buyout, but has now increased to the 4mil because of penalties, etc. Basically, Biyombo would have to pay more than he'll make the first several years.
Banks are less reluctant to gamble on unknown players than the Cats. Considering how adament he was that he would play here this year, it has to make you wonder about other things, like how adament he is about his age.
Posted by: Phillip | Dec 16, 2011 2:57:38 PM
Here's something else you have to wonder about: why no coverage from the local papers? There was an article about Biyombo and Willaims today, but absolutely no mention of either change in availability.
Quick Rick, tell us how dumb we all are so we'll know you're still around....
Posted by: Phillip | Dec 16, 2011 3:00:20 PM
yea I just don't get how it escalates from 1.2 or 1.4 million to 5+ million in "penalties". especially when there was a court case pending.
non of that sounds right at all.
and there's no risk in dude's contract with the bobcats. it's an NBA rookie scale contract, it's guaranteed for 2 years and somewhere around 5 million. dude hops in a plane to head to spain along with agent, cho, lawyers, bobcats lawyers, hard money lender/banker, more lawyers, a ball point pen, bobcats contract, maybe a bottle of champagne, maybe soda (dude is young) they go to team and wire the money for the payoff and he signs the contract with the bobcats simultaneously. everybody wins.
the court case (to my understanding) was to determine if the contract was valid or not. I would imagine the 5+ million buyout is posturing. FIBA would tell em to eff off talking about penalties in excess of exponential growth of the dudes entire annual salary.
until I read otherwise FROM the bobcats or cho or FIBA, i'm assuming the guy just has to pay the original buyout fee.
either way the guy has missed mad practice time and we play our first game that counts in 10 effing days. and we have like 9 guys on our roster who can suit up by the 26th. none of which are nba centers.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 16, 2011 3:25:01 PM
Maybe I was a little confusing, but the reason you may not get it is because, like I said, is because they're not asking for dollars; they're asking for euros. Once you convert the claim from euros (more vaulable on the exchange rate currently) to dollars, then amount would roughly translate to 5 million US dollars.
I haven't read the contract, but other news outlets, unlike this paper, are reporting that the base buyout without any other penalties is 1.2 mil euros. However, because he has missed playing time and the team probably included liquadated damages and penalties for players that don't fulfill their contract, then that's probably where the other 2.8 comes in, for a total of 4mil euros. Again, 4 mil euros equals about 5.27 mil US dollars.
Also, there isn't a court case pending any longer. The Spanish court dismissed Biyombo's lawsuit.
Add all of that up, and Biyombo would lose more money than it is worth to come over now, unless a lower number can be negotiated.
Posted by: Phillip | Dec 16, 2011 3:44:09 PM
Also, FIBA didn't tell them to eff off, they told the NBA to eff off until Biyombo pays whatever number they can settle on.
Also, if you're waiting to hear anything from this paper, or from Cho for that matter, please feel free to hold your breath. I wouldn't suggest it, but you can if you'd like.
By the way, you don't have to believe me. Look it up for yourself. You can also look up capitalization and punctuation while you're at it.
Posted by: Phillip | Dec 16, 2011 3:48:01 PM
no i understood what you said, I don't think you understood my response.
I'm saying, the lawsuit was whether or not the contract was valid, it had nothing to do with the actual buyout. he was trying to get out of the contract altogether.
The GM of the spanish team said that they are currently negotiating the buyout. There's no way they actually try successfully to hold this dude up for 5 million when the buyout is actually between 1.2-1.4. Not when they HAD (past tense) a lawsuit pending.
FIBA nor the courts ruled (according to everything i read) on the buyout actually being 5 million plus. they just ruled on the contract being valid.
FIBA absolutely would tell them to go eff themselves if dude is trying to pay the 1.4 million buyout plus some sort of penalty (if applicable) and they try to say it's 5 mil. no effing way. the dude was making like a hundred grand a year if that. he pays the buyout and the issue is solved. all this other ish is just vengeful posturing. They clearly don't even want the dude back.
no effing way dude has to pay 5+ million. no way. the buyout was reported between 1.2-1.4. They can't go to court to determine if he even has to pay it at all, win and then say "now it's 5". that won't fly.
eff your punctuation and capitalization. it's an effing blog.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 16, 2011 4:34:56 PM
If it were so simple (take a loan, pay the buyout, then you're good to go), why wasn't it done by now? Evidently, young Bismack had no real court case against his team - so, what were they waiting for?
By him not showing up for all this time (after the off-season), sure there will be steep penalties, and probably interest charged too. So, the amount he owes them keeps growing. It seems hard to believe, but not impossible, that it's already over $5 mil. - we'll see).
And the silence of the 'Cats (management) on this whole mess is very weird.
Looks like a huge management blunder - unless they'll prove otherwise anytime soon.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 16, 2011 5:27:51 PM
You really aren't getting the point. The contract includes both a buyout clause and a pebalty clause. Plus, the suit was not challenging the validity of the contract, but whether the team had breached it, which would have allowed Biyombo to unilaterally declare it voidable. Might not sound like much of a difference, but it's actually a big difference.
Also, you seem to keep comparing the jump as being from 1.2 to 5. It's not. It's 1.2 to 4. The 5mil figure comes in only if he has to pay the full 4mil in euros, which is 5.27 US.
FIBA has, in fact, said no release will be given until the team gets what it is asking for. If the team rejects an offer for the original buyout amount, FIBA has no say in the matter. The contract issue is between the player and the team. Regardless of how much Biyombo made last year, teams include large buyout clauses so as to prevent players from leaving easily and leaving the team high and dry. It happens all of the time here and overseas.
Posted by: Phillip | Dec 16, 2011 5:47:46 PM
1 - that is the same thing. or at least the same thing i was saying. the case was about whether or not the contract was valid. a breached contract isn't valid anymore. same thing. stop trying to argue for the sake of arguing.
2 - the jump from 1.2......the 1.2 figure comes from DOLLARS not euros. everywhere the figure was stated as either 1.2 or 1.4 million DOLLARS. it wouldn't matter if it was euros. that's still exponential penalties on his salary. there's NO WAY that's legal. not even in spain. they are posturing to try to get the most out of him possible. the longer he waits, the more he loses in NBA salary and development time so they are trying to get the most out of him because they have leverage.
i haven't seen the contract and neither have you so how do you know there's a penalty clause in it? even if there is, what's the maximum allowed by spanish law? the guy was getting paid less than 100k from what i read so if that isn't slavery, i don't know what is. how can you charge a guy 4 million in "penalties" over 6 months when the guy made a fraction of that per year. i've read everything possible so i'd like to know where you're getting your information.
3 - fiba said the issue needs to be resolved. if the contract says he pays 1.2 million dollars and he says he'll pay it and the spanish team is trying to play games....it'll be in the courts. if the contract says they are supposed to get 5 million then the bobcats REALLY REALLY dropped the ball here big time. I just find that really really hard to believe at this point. It's not possible that it went from 1.2 million dollars in June to 5 million plus with litigation pending. had he won the case, he pays nothing.
huge effing blunder either way. no one will ever ever ever ever ever be able to call adam morrison a bad pick ever again if this dude can't even suit up for 3 more years.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 16, 2011 8:09:32 PM
sandy, loans are that easy. that's why a ton of foreign players get their buyouts worked out long before you ever even hear about them having had a buyout.
the problem here is that somebody (i believe bismack and his agent) tried to circumvent the buyout altogether and got effed. either that or the club didn't want to let him go so they're trying to eff him in spite. either way, we're the ones getting effed.
but loans are easy. especially for nba players when it's based on their contract. these dudes' deals are GUARANTEED. no other sport is that way except the elite baseball players. it's crazy. not even peyton manning has a guaranteed contract in football. high interest loans mind you, but loans nonetheless.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 16, 2011 8:12:25 PM
Classic from Simmons:
Needs: Size. They're starting Boris Diaw at center this year and can't even amnesty DeSagana Diop because rookie (Marv Albert voice) "Bis-mack Bee-YOM-bo!" might be trapped in Spain for awhile.
Additional Notes: When your center combo is Boris Diaw and DeSagana Diop, you're pretty much daring the league to contract you.
What They SHOULD Do: That's a loaded question. The Bobcats have cap space and DON'T think they need Sam Dalembert. I don't know what to tell you. Why is this team still in the league?
Posted by: We need Bismack | Dec 16, 2011 9:11:10 PM
1. No, it's not the same thing. Even a breached contract is only voidable, as opposed to being void. One falls apart after the fact, and the other is not enforceable from the beginning. Unless you're an attorney, which I'm guessing you're not from your posts, then I don't expect young understand the nuiance.
2. Please try to understand that the continent of Europe and those countries involved in it's economic structure don't use dollars. There is a reason they use a different little symbol in front of the numbers denoting monetary designations. To borrow the Rick Bonnell method, where exactly did you read that the 1.2mil figure? Because wherever it was, they misled you, inluding this paper. I know there are penalty clauses because I read about them in other reports and I know a thing or two about contracts. Plus, the whole common sense thing that apparently everyone else gets. Try to keep up.
3. FIBA has as much control over teams concerning player movement as the NBA has over every team, except the Hornets. All they do is act as the " clearing house" that certifies that players within the league it governs are under no enforceable obligation to one of it's member leagues. If a player does have an obligation to a member team, then, by agreement with the NBA, it will not give the NBA permission to allow the player to sign a contract with a team that comes under the jurisdiction of the NBA.
The Spansh team may be trying to spite Biyombo for trying to get out of the contract and are charging him to the fullest extent of the contract, but that doesn't mean what the team is doing isn't within what the contract that Biyombo signed allows for. The overall money that Biyombo may have to pay, when converted to US dollars, is more than half what he'll earn under the first contract. Even if a bank loans him the money, it is still not worth paying the interest on the money when he can simply wait a year, and then allow the contract to expire. Then, at most, he'll have to pay a fine like NFL players that hold out of camp.
Posted by: Phillip | Dec 16, 2011 9:35:38 PM
By the way, Spain may not have the usury laws the US has against excessive penalties, and, even if they do, this contract most likely doesn't fall within the prohibition. If it did, the Spanish court most likely wouldn't have dismissed the action.
Posted by: Phillip | Dec 16, 2011 9:39:27 PM
Fuenlabrada valued the player €4M: 1.2M as buyout, plus the federal rights until December 2014, plus a fine for having missed 4 games and 64 practices last season before ACB playoffs when Biyombo left to have some workouts in the States. The Spanish team is ready to negotiate a buyout to help Biyombo to leave but the NBA team are allowed to pay maximum $500.000 as buyout and the difference, in this case, should be paid by the young player. Sportando
CHARLOTTE BOBCATS, SPAIN, BISMACK BIYOMBO, FUENLABRADA | SHARE
See, where they start off with 4mil euros, then break it down, it's still euros; not dollars. Are you able to follow?
Posted by: Phillip | Dec 16, 2011 9:49:41 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who gives a Sh!T!!!!! Really!!!!!!
Does anyone of you really matter, in your VERY INTELLECTUAL DEBATE.... Does anyone of us,, give a shit about how much research,, can be done over the other, too make a bigg pile of who gives a TURKEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????? ABOUT THE OTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU GOT INFO SHARE IT OR SHUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: David Stern gas to go!! | Dec 16, 2011 11:53:47 PM
Listen I am very impressed with everyones research in this very important matter, TOO US!!
I love it and thank all of you , because obviously it was not going to get covered!!!
I love the passion from evry one.. but damn we are all wanting the same thing!
We could debate, if the sun is shining when it is cloudy!
what is the plan if we are down 2 or more players from 14?????
Posted by: David Stern gas to go!! | Dec 17, 2011 12:12:51 AM
Sorry, my "SOFT!" disclaimer is, I have got 2 kids(and Work) and am beyond BUSY!!!!!
Home Team Baby!!!!!
WE All want the same thing, RIGHT!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: David Stern gas to go!! | Dec 17, 2011 12:20:47 AM
This story is a lot more ridiculous than what it already appeared to be.
Biyombo had 2 more years on his contract with Fuenlabrada when he was drafted. "Biyombo’s contract with Fuenlabrada of the Spanish ACB has a buyout of $3 million." On top of it, "The club also owns 80 percent of Biyombo’s rights until June 2014, the report said." (both quotes from Hoops World, quoting Sportando - so, that's the meaning of those "federal rights"). Then, there are the penalties for not showing up for practice, pre-season and regular season games. So, that's how we get to the 4 mil. euros, or over $5 mil., figure.
We've been hoodwinked all this time, it seems: "Biyombo and his agent previously have said that the contract has a buyout of $1.4 million." By "we" I mean the fans and the media (so, don't blame Rick Bonnell for what he previously reported!). But, no question, the management, including the pseudo-savior Rich Cho, had to know the true data of Biyombo's contract. They just HAD to, or else they drafted this guy without knowing what the heck they're getting into, and accordingly they should be fired.
It only gets better: with every day, the penalties can only increase. The figure reported above refers to 4 games missed, but Fuenlabrada played by now 11 games in the Spanish league!
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 17, 2011 12:36:02 AM
Even if the band of geniuses known as the Bobcats management didn't know the details of Biyombo's contract on Draft day, no way they didn't find out all about it after they drafted this prospect. So, I repeat my question: what were they waiting for? This situation got, and keeps getting, worse by the day (since the penalty meter keeps running).
The amounts required for Biyombo's buyout (according to the quoted report) were simply not worth it, not worth taking the loan (though, since the amount of the buyout is not what we were originally told, I also don't know how easy to get that loan would've been; more important, it's not worth it).
This is a very inexperienced and raw player, who would've been greatly benefited by playing this season (and possibly, the next one too) in the pretty strong ACB league, rather than talk big about playing in the NBA, and sounding as if the contract he's signed on is a meaningless trifle.
I can't blame an overly eager kid, who believes that if he wishes it hard enough, it will surely happen. But I totally blame the wise guys from the 'Cats FO, who just had to advise him to calm down, play this season for Fuenlabrada, then show us how much he improved, and by how much his actual buyout figure was decreased, and then see if he needs another season in ACB, or, if the (more affordable) buyout should be tackled with a loan. Instead, they let him go on this losing course - both money-wise, and also basketball-wise (since he can't play, or even practice with our team, all this time).
Yep, we witness a huge management blunder. Now, let's wait and see what spin they can put on this mess.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 17, 2011 12:59:37 AM
Just to hear those emphatic words Biyombo used, scared the crap out of me! When you hear that SO! SURE!!.... You almost know it is assured it is not going to happen!!!
Posted by: David Stern gas to go!! | Dec 17, 2011 1:21:44 AM
Time for cho to speak up. This is his guy. What kind of gm doesn't speak to the media?
Posted by: crymeariver | Dec 17, 2011 2:38:58 AM
My posts were trying to straighten out charlottean. Realized too late that it was a waste of time. You're right in that we all want the same thing, but if you're so busy and you don't otherwise care, why take the time to make three posts? I passes along the info I had, so I suppose it's time for you to take your own advice.
Posted by: Phillip | Dec 17, 2011 9:16:33 AM
Its as if you don't read what I say and then tell me how wrong I am.
I know all that fiba does is clear the guy. Im saying if he pays the buyout that's in the contract, they're going to clear him. Its not possible that 3 times the buyout rate apply in penalties. Not possible.
Conveniently, my wife is a lawyer specializing in international cases and licensed in multiple countries so you can miss me with your first year law school regurgitation. Im not debating the difference between the two, I am saying in this case the outcome is the same. The implication was the same.
Me not understanding the euro symbol is laughable. Tell me about yuan, and francs and quetzales and pesos and rubles while you are at it.
What I said 5 times for the slow kids was that the figures given back in june ALL said dollars not euros. Some articles said 1.2, others said 1.4, others said slightly more. I don't know how you can't read this in english, I can go spanish or italian if you preferred.
Also funny for you to bicker about caps and punctuation and you got typos out the A.
And also for the slow kid. Court case was not to determine monetary value owed, but validity of contract. So the jury is still out on how much dude has to pay legally which is the whole point of everything I've said. The only person saying 5 million DOLLARS is the team. Until we hear that from somebody of merit who isn't posturing for the purposes of negotiations, that's not credible.
You act as though you read his contract. I've read everything you have regarding this. You are infering way more than is out there.
You gotta be the most marvin gaye kid on here.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 17, 2011 9:28:35 AM
The worst thing is....we might find out later this dude is really 27 on some julio franco ish.
I thought it was a great move in june assuming the contract wasn't an issue. Now they have outdone themselves for worst move in cats history.
Moving jack for maggette is still addition by subtraction but kwame still not worth 7 for one effing year? Eff outta here. Now we are going to struggle to get ANYONE to come here without overpaying the ridiculous. The same guys negotiating minimum contracts with the heat will want 10 mil here. Sucks being a diehard.
Im still laughing at this dude "straightening" me out. Hilarious. Dude can't read so that makes me wrong.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 17, 2011 9:35:35 AM
The multiple posts was because I felt I was out of line after my first.
I do have to Make time as per my time stamps. So fair enough, I will take my advice thanks.
I am amped about monday night and hope this Biyombo mess gets worked out.
Anyone know how the TV coverage is going to work this season?
Posted by: David Stern gas to go!! | Dec 17, 2011 10:27:15 AM
supposedly same as last year. no national coverage, every game on sports south or whatever.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 17, 2011 2:09:46 PM
Same here. Hoping that Biyombo will also play this year, but it wouldn't be the worse thing to allow him one more year there, as long as he doesn't get hurt. I know no one wants to say this out loud, but since the team appears headed to a top 5 pick it might not be the worst for the team to keep the cash, and then have him available for a full off season.
Posted by: Phillip | Dec 17, 2011 3:29:57 PM
If the guy is under contract 2 seasons and they hold his rights until 2014 as it has been reported, how does his situation change next summer?
I swear every report regarding this thing has had different details, nothing consistent at all.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 17, 2011 8:01:30 PM
IF Biyombo had played this season for Fuenlabrada, then evidently, a buyout for one season ('12-'13) has to cost less than one for two seasons. Of course, we don't know the details of the contract, because the 'Cats FO feels that it's more convenient for them to keep us in the dark.
Still, it's already fair to say they are messing this up big time.
(a) IF the initial reports were anywhere close to true ("$1.4 mil. buyout"), then they had to either decide to tell Biyombo to take a loan and pay his share, so he can sign with our team, or tell him to go back to play in ACB at least another season (for the sake of his development as a pro player), have thus the buyout cost reduced too, and then we'll see (loan + buyout, or, one more season in ACB).
(b) IF the recent reports are true, or closer to the truth than the initial one (and I suspect this may be the case - I don't see how anyone would make up those "federal rights" until 2014), then they certainly should've directly advised him to stay this season (at least) with Fuenlabrada.
I mean, they refuse to inform us, they think that their positions of power entitle them to do so, but it's obvious that - in any case, various alternatives being considered - this is a putrid mishandling of this situation. They just let things to go from bad to worse (money-wise and basketball-wise, as I mentioned in my previous post). Pathetic management.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 17, 2011 11:07:04 PM
The citizens of charlotte should file suit against the bobcats demanding real management. You can say its just sports if you want, but think about the economic impact of charlotte losing ANOTHER nba team.
Anybody with half a brain could do a better job. Even david kahn managed to manuver the rubio fiasco better than this. Even kahn. That's pathetic. The league is hurting its brand by not doing something about how poorly this team has been run.
I feel like a bengals fan.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 17, 2011 11:38:24 PM
Right on, Charlottean.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 17, 2011 11:47:00 PM
gas to go... Too funny on my idiotic mistake!
Hey I'm with yah!!
Something seems as if though maybe not everything was disclosed for something so stupid to happen! Maybe "they" can turn this around and use as a negotiating tool.
I may be wrong, but really... you think our FO is THIS stupid or could we have an angle??
Posted by: David Stern has to go!! | Dec 18, 2011 12:04:15 AM
Is our front office this stupid? Please see the erick dampier trade where we supposedly saved money by dismantling a playoff team and giving up an expiring deal worth 14 mil for a starting center to bring back over 20 million in salary for matt carroll and najera.
Then reference the giving up on morrison fresh off injury because larry brown (mr. Temp coach) didn't like him.
Can we talk about not resigning kwame brown or are you guys still delusional thinking he's not worth it when guys like dalembert have been getting 10 million a year on long term deals and diops been getting 7. And when we had NO backup plan.
Yea they are completely that stupid. Starting to think cho isn't the presti that we hoped and that's why he got fired quickly in portland.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 18, 2011 11:41:47 AM
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