December 23, 2011
Nachbar or Moon as Charlotte Bobcat?
One of two NBA veteran small forwards -- Bostjan Nachbar or Jamario Moon -- could fill out the Charlotte Bobcats' regular-season roster.
Bobcats player-personnel chief Rod Higgins plans to bring in Nachbar and Moon for workouts Saturday.
The Bobcats chose not to match a Memphis Grizzlies offer sheet on restricted free-agent forward Dante Cunningham. Doing so would have obligated the Bobcats to about $4 million in total guarantees this season and next.
With long-range shooter Reggie Williams recovering from surgery to repair knee cartilage, Higgins would like another scoring option.
A 6-9 Slovenian, Nachbar was the 15th overall pick of the 2002 draft, chosen by the Houston Rockets. He also played for the New Orleans Hornets and New Jersey Nets before signing a three-year contract with Dynamo Moscow of the Russian league. His NBA average is 9.8 points per game and 2.6 rebounds per game.
Moon, a 6-8 forward who was not drafted, has played portions of four NBA seasons with the Toronto Raptors, Miami Heat, Cleveland Cavaliers and Los Angeles Clippers. His NBA average is 6.4 ppg., and 4.3 rpg.
Posted by Observer Sports on December 23, 2011 at 06:14 PM | Permalink
I love my Bobcats and always will support my Charlotte teams. But dang, this smells of going on the cheap.
Posted by: PantherHead | Dec 23, 2011 6:21:26 PM
They're saving money for next year for the next crop of free agents
Posted by: Jeremy | Dec 23, 2011 6:30:54 PM
When the circus comes to town.....two 30+ vets try out two days before season begins..Dante Cunningham could've been had for just a bit more....
Posted by: eduardo | Dec 23, 2011 7:29:22 PM
We have just sit around and watch Michael Jordan GUT this team and there are still people making excuses for him, what a shame
Posted by: TWC | Dec 23, 2011 7:52:04 PM
Posted by: Tim | Dec 23, 2011 8:06:23 PM
The Bobcats cut Melvin Ely and Taylor Griffin. Wasn't Ely brought in to give them some size? Guess he wasn't cutting it.
Posted by: Bob Loblaw | Dec 23, 2011 8:25:56 PM
if they sign one of these guys, the cho effect is over.
you're talking about 60 million in salary cap and you decided not to re-up cunningham over a million a year for 2 years? if they sign moon or nachbar I'm calling jerry reese and we're filing lawsuits that waste everybody's time and money just to make a point.
morrison or bust. rick i'm not effing around. morrison.
not melvin ely
not anybody else
morrison. the fans deserve it. he deserves it. and michael of all people benefits the most from it. it's BS if they don't even visit the idea.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 23, 2011 9:29:14 PM
I thought Dante was a decent asset that would be worth the extra coin, but I suppose they just didn't see much of a role for him here. While some may feel the front office is being cheap, they prefer the flexibility of being under the cap versus spending money during a rebuilding year. This season will be rough at times, as both the rookies will see lots of minutes to advance their development.
Posted by: Bassman | Dec 23, 2011 9:34:46 PM
The Charlotte Bottom Feeders
Posted by: TWC | Dec 23, 2011 10:28:10 PM
I'm disappointed, probably more so than most Bobcats' fans. For many, and apparently for the management too, it's like "he's not gonna be a star, so why spend on him?!" The answer is that in rebuilding a team, you look for a few, really few, players with very high potential, who can become difference makers, but you also need solid rotation players, who will support and complement the leading stars. For being such a player, the Grizzlies are taking Cunningham, at a price well below half of the current average NBA salary. They're doing the right thing, as a franchise which is also rebuilding around young players, but started this before the Bobcats, and is more advanced than the Bobcats in this process. Smart decision by the Grizz, and foolish one by the Bobcats FO.
Now, the FO knows they need another SF for the season, and they try getting one who - unlike Cunningham - isn't young and can't be part of the team's future, but will probably be available at the NBA minimum wage, for a season. Foolishness.
charlottean, just out of curiosity, why do you go again on campaigning mode?
Don't get angry, I'm not attacking you, I'm really asking you: don't you realize that this FO will never listen to either fans or professional journalists? They never will, and they shouldn't, because there isn't, and there can't be, an uniformity of opinion among fans. There are various fans' opinions - some smarter, some less - but still, various opinions, which is the only normal thing anyway. And the FO does what THEY want, and nothing else.
I mean: campaigning (i.e., repeated "do this, don't do that" messages) doesn't, and will never, do anybody any good. The only purpose of these message boards is to have a conversation, to exchange opinions (as I said, some smart, some worthless, and many in-between), but not to try to impose these on anyone else, least of all the FO.
An example of a difference of opinion: I would take Cunningham any time over Ammo (though, at a personal level, I like Ammo and not Dante). Why? Because D.C. can offer a better balance between the different aspects of the game than A.M.. Who's the more talented offensive player between these two? Ammo. But Cunningham is pretty good as an offensive SF too (and definitely more talented than Derrick Brown, this one having great athleticism, but not much in terms of skills). And who's stronger, better athlete (not as athletic as Derrick B., but now I'm comparing with Ammo) and better defender? Cunningham. Who's the better overall player between A.M. and D.C.? For me, it's clearly Cunningham, because of what he can give you at both ends of the floor. I don't think Ammo's offensive advantage is so big as to make up for his weakness at the other end of the floor.
A little personal statement: I love the NBA, I'm a Bobcats' fan from day 1, I also like chatting on basketball (though I hate arguing, because it's stupid, it makes no sense), I used to like the way Bernie Bickerstaff was trying to build up this franchise, with young players, improving gradually, based on the Draft - and I don't like the direction in which Michael Jordan is taking it.
I didn't like bringing in Sam Vincent (FoM) instead of allowing Bernie to coach a fourth season, I didn't like replacing Bernie as GM with Higgins (FoM),
I didn't like choosing Larry Brown over Paul Silas to replace Vincent, and I don't like the method of huge overhauls of the roster, instead of the path of continuity and gradual improvement that Bickerstaff chose. If all those FoMs have never been brought here to begin with, if Bernie stayed on as GM, and MJ would've actually respected his viewpoint, ain't no telling where the Bobcats would've been now. All I know, I would've liked that path a lot more.
(And I'm not saying Bernie was fault-free. It's human to make mistakes. But he had a very different basic approach to managing this team - sounder and more balanced than Michael Jordan - and that's why I prefer him, by far).
The way the team is headed now, to me it's at the same time very risky, and boring too. Yep, I'll say it very honestly, after all of their head-scratching and headache causing moves, this is the very first season when I don't feel interested by what they're gonna do this season. They're not going anywhere this season, the roster doesn't seem to hold great promise for the future (sure, there is talent, but that promise of great future achievements is a different thing), so?...
I am a fan from Day 1, and I'm very frustrated with the team as it is now.
I'm still going to watch them play, but I'll do my best to resist the itch of publicly commenting on the team, and will just post NO comments after the season begins (to the unspoken joy of all the fans who either believe that the greatest player ever is now taking this team to greatness, or hope that they have some magic way to "straighten out" this management).
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 23, 2011 11:37:48 PM
This will be the thinking fan's season for the Bobcats. We will have to take joy in subtle improvements and individual plays, without wins.
We're bad, but we have some entertaining young players who could become something. It wouldn't shock me if Kemba, G-Hen, or Biyombo were very good someday.
All it takes is one great addition or one solid trade to change the face of a basketball team. Look at how Diaw/Bell improved us in 08-09, and then how adding Stephen Jackson took us to a playoff level the next year.
Sometimes chemistry is simply everything. Memphis played far better than the sum of their parts in the playoffs last year. Hope springs eternal when it comes to hoops.
Posted by: DeLaQuest | Dec 24, 2011 12:00:15 AM
The Cunningham deal was for 2 years guaranteed at $2 mil first season and over $3 mil 2nd season with a 3rd year option. That was last I heard...so he isn't necessarily THAT cheap, as some of you think he only cost $1 million per season. Even so, I think the Bobcats should have retained him....with him averaging 14 pts/game, 4 rebs, 3 asts shooting over 50% towards the last half of the season, it would have been interesting to see how he'd develop with Silas.
I guess the Bobcats and Silas really wants Derrick Brown to success and will give him every opportunity to do so. I think they know this season is going to be a trial and error, similar to the Panthers...keep the players that WANT to win and can show promise, and remove those that are only for the paychecks. I think Silas and MJ wants Derrick Brown to make it...and it's quite clear they covet him even when he was released last season, as they believed they could have brought him back after waivers.
After this season, I'm willing to believe MJ will go after good FA prospects without overpaying....a strategy utilized by OKC and look how they've turned out...profitable and successful (ranked #2-5 by most NBA analysts).
Listen, like it or not, Charlotte will NEVER be able to bring in marquee players like the CP3s, LeBrons, Melos, Stoudamires, via free agency. They will have to severely overpay, and there is no way the Charlotte market will allow for such. MJ won't be able to market up those ticket prices to compensate for such signing. The ONLY way we can survive and still success is to do it via drafts and develop these young talents and hope one or two develop to be budding stars. If you can't accept that, then move to the big cities or open up your wallets to the Bobcats and stop bit**ing they can't get a marquee player because we all know without revenue, there is NO WAY they can afford such a player even with MJ's wallets.
This is a business...and if you want a good product, you got to pay up...simple as that. Would a Charlottean pay $100 for the cheapest ticket on a regular basis to watch a big-3 team here? My guess is no, because all I hear at the arena are crybabies who complain about the concession prices, parking and their tickets too high. Get real...we have ONE of the cheapest season tickets out there on the planet and you still have a reason to complain. Worse yet, I see idiots who attend the games wearing former Charlotte Hornets gear and protesting to bring the Hornets back!?! What morons....if you can't support this team, then don't even come to the game with your garbage. And you wonder why MJ can't put a good product out there...why should he? Only a select FEW fans out there really cares about this team, while most are just egotistical, self-serviing fools who come to the game because they either got a free ticket or the company they work for comped them out.
In conclusion, if you want this team to BE BETTER and grow, get behind this team and support them. If not, don't even bother showing up to the arena...there are more deserving people who can't afford these tickets that would LOVE to trade places with you just to attend a Bobcats game. 'Nuff said.
Posted by: KYL | Dec 24, 2011 2:31:05 AM
On a side note...I heard that Mickael Pietrus was waived by Phoenix....he is WILLING to sign a NBA minimum contract to play for Boston. Charlotte can offer slightly more and give him a starting role, and I'd consider him an upgrade over Dante Cunningham...
Point is, don't JUDGE the Bobcats' yet until the season actually started...there's still moves that can occur before the start of the season.
We do have 2 rostor spots left, and I don't see the 'Cats signing both Moon and Nachbar...he could easily replace Cunningham's spot.
Posted by: KYL | Dec 24, 2011 2:39:21 AM
The Bobcats need to grab PIETRUS!!!! The dude is a legit player and can hit the three!
Posted by: KW | Dec 24, 2011 4:03:53 AM
Wah Wah. "I'm mad at MJ and the staff!" "I'm not watching the Bobcats this year!" Bye! I'm soooo sick of fair weather fans here in Charlotte. You people have no idea how to support or stand behind your team. All of you are armchair point guards and quarterbacks. I'm sure when Newton was having difficulties in the preseason many of you were acting like the sky was falling and screaming doom and saying how terrible a pick he was.
PATIENCE. Please learn what this word means and apply it to being a "fan".
Posted by: D.W.G. | Dec 24, 2011 4:31:56 AM
D.W.G....well said. I swear since moving to Charlotte, these fans are the most fair-weathered I've ever witnessed. I don't get how someone who calls himself/herself a fan attends a home game only to complain, curse, deride the team to a point you'd believe they hated that team. Only in Charlotte I tell you.
That's why Charlotte can only build via the draft and hope they get a bonafide star from it. No support from their fans means no revenue to pay for the top-tier talent. OKC was able to prove a small-tier team can win by building through the draft. But they have ONE huge difference the Bobcats don't have: fan support! Since day 1, even when they that team couldn't even win 20 games for the entire season, the place mostly sold out and the arena rocked.
All I see here are mostly so-called fans who say they support the Bobcats, but they never cheer, never applaud, only gripe and complain, or worse yet, wear a former team's jersey to the arena wishing on something that will NEVER happen. I agree with you, those types can stay home.
Posted by: KYL | Dec 24, 2011 5:11:44 AM
Well said KYL.
When they hired Cho, from day one he said the team will be bad before it gets good. He doesn't want to put a few good player out there just to almost make the playoffs or get swept in the first round. He said, he wanted to build a playoff team for the next decade. just like the Panthers who now have high potential to go a long way in the playoffs, we can draw elite players, that's what he's trying to do. Hopefully Kemba Walker can be that guy. MJ already said we need a super star. Look at the teams who have super stars that are trying to leave because team team can't win consistently. To many people want instant gratification. Remember it took a while to screw this team up. But at least we're looking great for next year.
Posted by: JT3 | Dec 24, 2011 8:38:51 AM
I agree with JT3, etc. We needed to gut this team, but this will be a tough season and it hasn't started yet, a lot like last year trying to cheer for the Panthers. At least we get to watch the bobcats version of Cam instead of having to wait a year.
Posted by: Cranky | Dec 24, 2011 10:22:59 AM
You people making excuses for MJ is sick he will not put a good product on the floor this year or in 12\13 in 13\14 in 14\15 or ever, he is to cheap to pay any decent talent and no free agents is coming here to play with J Moon or our Million Dollar Baby Mullen, we had a chance to keep a decent small forward to grow with this team and we refuse to sign him for a little over 2 mill a year that is crazy, if you people thank MJ got this team for anything more than to satisfy his EGO you are just as sick as he is.
Posted by: TWC | Dec 24, 2011 10:26:26 AM
I agree with above that Bernie Bickerstaff was underappreciated. I also think that it turns out the high point for the Cats over the last few years - and unfortunately for the forseeable future - may have been the Larry Brown playoff season. They were building something. Then they wouldn't go to bat for Raymond Felton; Brown knew that was the beginning of the end. There is only 1 previous executive job by Mr. Jordan - that was Washington - we know how that turned out. How many players would come to Charlotte with Michael looking over their shoulder; how many will remember how anti-player he was in the labor negotiations. Time will tell. I hope I will be proven dead wrong about all this. But things don't look good for this franchise; again - I hope Michael proves me wrong.
Posted by: D Thompson | Dec 24, 2011 12:25:59 PM
Nick Young, the player who ripped mj during the lockout is already appologizing to him and wanting some air jordan shoes. So you can put that anti player bs to rest.
Larry Brown is the reason we are where we are. Filling this team with one bad contract after another just to get to 7th place in the east and the team losing $20m in the process is not the way to go. No business can survive that way.
Give cho a chance. It will get worse before it gets better but you gotta beleive.
Posted by: crymeariver | Dec 24, 2011 2:36:28 PM
Inorder to boost your argument you fail to mention cho who is ten times the gm your beloved bikerstaff is. Good.
Posted by: crymeariver | Dec 24, 2011 3:03:50 PM
His ego is exactly why he will spend on this team. It has to be killing him to show any discipline. But it is exactly what he needs to do. There is no doubt he will spend as soon as he has the cap space. No one is making excuses. If he is far under the cap in two years, you will have won your argument, but that is not likely. He will spend, the question is will he spend wisely. If Cho is still here, I think he will.
Posted by: Cranky | Dec 24, 2011 3:03:56 PM
i know nobody is listening. i'm not dumb. it's a cry to the basketball gods that clearly hate charlotte basketball fans.
and i agree about cunningham. I'd take him over morrison. i think i've said that lately. between he and brown it's debatable. brown has more potential but cunningham is no question the better player RIGHT NOW. he's like taj gibson is with chicago. he could be the 7th or 8th guy on a championship contender.
and cunningham's deal is 3 years 6.3 million. 2 years 4 million guaranteed. so no.....it wasn't more expensive. and that's actually better because the value in that deal is the team option for year 3. he's going to be worth a lot more than 2.3 million 2 years from now.
it's cool if they said.....hey we want to carry 14 going into the season and leave a spot open. or if they say....cunningham wants to go to memphis, we'll let him. it's not cool if they bring in moon or nachbar or somebody similar over cunningham to save a million. those dudes are like 7 years older than dante. and not really better. nor would they be here any more than 1 year. what's the point?
and kyl and d.w.g. that has nothing to do with not supporting the team. charlotte is filled with fairweather fans but most of the people on here complaining are die-hards. bobcats fans have had every reason to complain about the mismanagement of the roster. from sam vincent being hired, larry brown being given too much say so, jeff mcinnis taking development away from felton, felton not being resigned but thomas being given more money, the DAMPIER TRADE, THE DIOP TRADE, giving up on morrison coming off of a surgery instead of letting him come back, etc. etc. etc. etc.
not to mention, i don't miss games. i don't go to every single home game because my travel schedule doesn't permit it but I haven't missed a single game televised and have been to more games than most anybody. fairweather is far from applicable here.
i also don't criticize the panthers moves because hurney (a real gm) actually makes logical moves. they don't always pan out but that's based on bad luck, not idiotic moves like trading a 14 million expiring contract of a starting center for 20 million in pretty useless salary over 3 years. again we have the right to complain when they do things like that.
they are definitely more so on the right track right now but it's so easy to suspect the worst because their history has shown just that. not resigning kwame was tough to swallow because there were not better options available however we were able to acquire mullens which was a solid move. not signing cunningham is easier to swallow because we already got brown but it just lacks logic because we can trade the guy. it's an asset we just let go for free. there are a lot of teams that would want cunningham but can't sign him because they are over the cap. you sign him and then trade him later and get a ton of value.
and for that i don't want to trust cho so quickly. absolutely loved the hire, anything to get rod higgins further away from calling mark cuban to discuss trades i can get behind. the draft and trades and recent moves have been very solid but there's still hesitance to trust so early. he got canned after a year in portland. he's not sam presti. don't give him credit for what presti did while cho was his assistant. not all of it. i'm sure he wouldn't have been there if he wasn't of value i'm just saying he's not presti is all.
i still say we should bring back morrison.
and i would love it if all my other fellow die-hards would get behind it and start some "we want ammo" chants at the home games this year. it helps us ZERO to have maggette being a black hole on offense. i would rather lose by 50 and give those shots to somebody that stands to do something for our future. let the young'ns figure out how to win on their own.
that and some "L-V-P" chants everytime stephen jackson takes free throws in charlotte would be awesome. thanks kids.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 24, 2011 4:35:36 PM
I want him back, hungry to prove himself where it all started. It could be a healing process for him AND us.
Posted by: DeLaQuest | Dec 24, 2011 5:44:16 PM
WITH HAIR AND STACHE!
i remember when larry brown said "that's not a ball players hair cut" and dude showed up next day with the buzz. dude was never NOT hungry. just discouraged.
i'm calling for some denver'esque ish. demand that ish. it's just too right to not do it.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 24, 2011 5:54:54 PM
These are the Michael Jordan's Charlotte Bottom Feeders.
Posted by: TWC | Dec 24, 2011 6:01:18 PM
Posted by: joe cool | Dec 24, 2011 6:05:01 PM
Cho was fired because he told paul allen that they needed to start from scratch. Exactly what he is doing here. Yahoo reported it during the lockout.
Posted by: crymeariver | Dec 24, 2011 6:08:55 PM
Charlottean, I have some points of agreement with you - on Cunningham, on the management, and I suppose we're pretty close on Ammo - and also some disagreements. On Cunningham and Derrick Brown: even before seeing him in the NBA, I wished we could get D.C. in the 2009 Draft, because he was obviously showing great potential, and I knew he'll be gone before our pick: 40, which was Derrick Brown. All I can see in D.B. is athleticism and fierce competitiveness, but very limited skills. So, I just don't know why you think he has better upside than Cunningham - while you also said that D.C. will "be worth a lot more than 2.3 million 2 years from now"; just my thought when I got upset by the FO decision not to match that (very modest) Memphis offer. You answered those guys who call "fairweather" us fans who supported this team throughout its seven seasons, which include six losing seasons; that's just lowly name-calling, not worthy of an answer.
crymeariver: "cho ... is ten times the gm your beloved bikerstaff is". Wow, what an overstatement this is! It's regular underappreciation of Bickerstaff, and it's rushing judgment on Cho. There's a good reason I didn't mention Cho (it happens to be one of my points of agreement with charlottean): so far, I'm far from convinced of his great value to the team, but I'm not writing him off either. He simply didn't prove anything special as Bobcats' GM yet, he was part of some decisions I liked and also of some I didn't like. Time will tell whether he'll be as valuable to this franchise on its basketball side as Curtis Polk is on its financial side (see Rick's very interesting article on Polk today).
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 24, 2011 11:19:42 PM
I guess I should've posted my whole looong comment at one time, rather than have its second part blocked now. Is this franchise so scared of free speech?!
Really, no critical comments posted here can have any broad impact. Whether people will go to the 'Cats games this season or not will depend on how the team does, and only on that. These message boards are nothing but chatting, of no practical consequence. So, why close the discussion tread ?!
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 25, 2011 12:55:12 AM
I tried to explain before my main reason I don't like what's going on now with the Bobcats, and I know it's not popular (I don't care, I'm not trying to win a popularity contest, I just like an exchange of opinions on basketball).
Bernie Bickerstaff's manner of leading showed sound and solid judgment, based on a huge wealth of experience with, and knowledge of, NBA basketball. He wanted to build up and achieve improvement gradually, and he didn't believe you skip stages, or you wreck something good first, in order to jump up to greatness. He certainly wanted success, moving up steadily, yet cautiously.
Michael Jordan is the exact opposite: impulsive, impatient, if he sees limited success (which was achieved in ONE season only - it's not like we were a perennial first round playoff team), he looks for a shortcut to the top; moving up steadily and cautiously is not the way to take for him.
That's why he brought in Larry Brown and not Paul Silas, in 2008. Of course Silas was successful with the Hornets. But Larry Brown's record has two titles in it (NCAA and NBA) and he's a Hall of Famer! To me, that was a ridiculous attempt to take a shortcut to the top; ridiculous, when you look at the discrepancy between having a HOF coach, and the roster we had.
With LB at the helm. the franchise didn't take too long to dismantle Bernie's legacy, and moved away from building up a young team, to reaching quick success with well paid veterans.
In 2010, this approach spelled "failure", so MJ proceeded to his second huge overhaul and change of direction. We're gonna trust again building up with young talent, we'll get rid quickly of veteran stars and their big contracts!
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 25, 2011 1:04:37 AM
So, why I - Bernie's fan - still don't like it? Because of the hectic, "wreck-the-rebuild" Jordan approach.
This is the third overhaul (turning a team upside down and inside out) that MJ is presiding over, matching well his impatient, impulsive, character (and by the way, I liked seeing these terms used by Rick in his two very good articles today:
I didn't just borrow them from there, it's what I've been thinking of MJ for years).
First overhaul: Wizards, season '02-'03, record 37-45. Second overhaul: Bobcats, seasons '08-'09 (losing season), '09-'10 (only winning 'Cats' season), the failed again in its early third season. Say, if you want, that it was "pleasing LB". OK, but it was still MJ's responsibility: bringing in LB (knowing very well his approach), then approving his roster changing wishes. And third overhaul: started last season (with known results), and is going on now.
Sure, crymeariver, Cho was brought here because he agrees with this frantic/hectic way of managing a team (wreck and rebuild). I deeply dislike it, because it involves wrecking something that worked while it involves high risk, it's an uncertain path to success. I like a steadier way towards improvement, in which you try every season to improve as much as you can, and you also keep the perspective that some contracts will draw anyway towards expiration; which will leave room under the salary cap, or, can be traded in their final year (e.g., Gerald's and Jax' contracts expire in 2013). And good teams can sometimes also trade for higher lottery picks, without sacrificing whole seasons to that purpose.
That's why - this approach, plus looking at the current roster and what it can do this season- I'm so frustrated with the 'Cats.
I NEVER said that this approach is bound to fail. I NEVER said that Cho, who is in agreement with MJ on this risky project won't achieve success. Of course, this MAY just work out according to plan. But, it wasn't the only way to move up, and it has its disadvantages compared to the steady and more cautious approach I prefer.
Anyway, good luck on this path, since the other way was discarded!
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 25, 2011 1:06:34 AM
An explanation on my 12:55 post.
I've tried 6 (six) times to post my last comment, and each time it was "lost in cyberspace" (after I completed each time all the needed steps for posting, and I even got the note "your comment was posted"). So, I could only conclude that this whole discussion thread was closed (which is actually common practice in electronic media - only, you are usually notified when it's done). To my surprise, that "protest rant", meant for the newspaper only, went through! So, I then broke my looong comment in two parts, and that worked.
Sorry for the length. It's meant only for those who enjoy chatting on the 'Cats while putting things on a wider perspective than what is being done, or what is being said, by this franchise right now.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 25, 2011 1:18:35 AM
For the record, I never liked the LB hiring. I was completely against it. But once LB left there was no other option but to tear down the team. Too many bad contract and no way to improve.
I think people need to seperate the management into two. When MJ was a minority owner and when MJ became majority owner. He has people in the organization now that tell him "no". His finacial advisor was not working for him when he was a minority owner. Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before they start listening to people. And I think the cats hit rock bottom last year.
Posted by: crymeariver | Dec 25, 2011 3:30:14 AM
The best news on this blog is that Sandy is not going to post after Monday when the season starts. As usual Sandy shows up with the same pompous attitude and "lectures" people. Must have been a school teacher or wanted to be one. Any half way intelligent person even for one second thinks that the Bobcats ownership or front office even reads this blog no less pays attention. This is just a bunch of guys in an "electronic" bar talking sports.
For all those who assume that if you criticize a team you must be a fair weather fan, well it may come as a surprise to you but people that are true passionate fans care so much that their frustrations show through and that they speak out. I have followed one MLB team for over 50 years and bleed the team colors but I have been very vocal about the decisions they have made and the directions they have chosen at different points and it doesn't make me any less a fan.
Queue Sandy's pompous dissertation.
Posted by: True BBall Fan | Dec 25, 2011 7:56:27 AM
Crymeariver. You are dead on. It is amazing that people can't distinguish between the two. There is a huge difference when you actually own something and there is a clear difference in his approach. Bringing Cho in, seeing the Polk story and assessing some of the moves signals a new approach. You might disagree with it, but to not acknowledge shows a complete lack of perspective.
Posted by: Cranky | Dec 25, 2011 9:02:56 AM
Less than a day until the Kemba Walker era kicks off in Charlotte.
Posted by: Gary | Dec 25, 2011 10:36:37 AM
I'll certainly take MJ and his staff over the cry babies who post here. It doesn't happen overnight dimbos, and we don't care
what you wah-wah about. Choose another team to support, we'll be glad to see you go. Get back to your church league.
Posted by: mikey | Dec 25, 2011 1:27:46 PM
I actually loved the larry brown hire. But you have to consider that was coming from sam vincent. I also hated basically every trade we made in the larry brown era except the jason richardson for raja and boris deal.
All I know is, we look to be on the right track but this not signing cunningham seems crazy. Not signing kwame seems crazy. Trading for mullens calmed me on that, but it still doesn't make sense. Not unless we luck up and get barnes because of all of this.
And sandy....what I meant about brown was more potential based. Like he has a 20% chance of being a josh howard or rashard lewis type player but a 75% chance of being a solid long term role player. I feel like cunningham is already 100% the solid long term role player and has maybe a 10% chance of being more. I hope that makes sense.
As for cho, that assessment of his firing can't possibly be true. He traded for wallace and gave up draft picks right before he was fired.
And we need adam morrison.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 25, 2011 4:12:04 PM
Can we get a player like Carmelo. Where the question is can we stop him from getting 50. Instead of maybe he can score 20.
Posted by: Altheus | Dec 25, 2011 5:07:48 PM
Yes. We just have to draft barnes and develop him into a better version of carmello.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 25, 2011 5:15:52 PM
Maybe cho made the best possible trade to bring wallace because his owner wanted to win now. Woj. wrote an article about it for yahoo. I completely believe it because this is philosophy. He believes in building from the bottom and that is why he always talks about the thunder but never mentions portland
Posted by: crymeariver | Dec 25, 2011 5:24:34 PM
Crymeariver, and Cranky too, you make an interesting point. Still, it’s more complicated than that.
MJ didn’t change his approach anytime soon after acquiring ownership of the team.
If there is a change, that only began recently, more than a year after he became owner.
As minority owner, MJ was already in control of basketball operations.
He decided then on a change of direction: bring in LB and let him dismantle Bickerstaff’s legacy.
MJ became the team’s owner in March 2010.
Afterwards, and after seeing that the LB experiment ended in failure, MJ decided on a second abrupt change of direction. The coach was fired, and the best veterans were traded.
Only AFTER this change of direction took place, he hired Rich Cho (on 6/24/11), as a GM who agrees with the “wreck-then-rebuild“ approach.
Rick’s article last night shows that Polk is putting some brakes on MJ’s impatience in his player personnel moves; it appears that this is happening after the dismantling of LB's legacy was mostly done.
“SINCE BLOWING UP the team that was swept out of the playoffs in the spring of 2010 (discarding Raymond Felton, Tyson Chandler, Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson), the Bobcats' front office has reassessed. …the Bobcats pay closer attention to strategic planning.”
Also, Polk’s contribution is in the financial planning, and it still remains to be seen how valuable Cho’s input on the player personnel decisions will be.
This (more careful and patient planning for the future) is a process that barely started, after the second big shake-up of this team. We still have to see how this plays out.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 25, 2011 5:44:56 PM
Charlottean. I understand the skepticism. It was well earned by MJ. But this approach started in his first full season as an owner which is why I put stock in it. Can't blame him for not blowing up a Playoff team before the season in 2010. However it seemed like as soon as he realized that team was not going any where and that LB kneaded or wanted to go, he started the process in earnest. It will be ugly and they need to draft well, but the path seems clear. I am not sure they can pull it off, but this approach is the only way. Hopefully we will see some additional trades this year that bring young players or more picks. looking forward to seeing Kemba play Monday and hoping to see a lot of Biyombo. He won't be good, but he needs court time and this is the year to give it to him.
I enjoy reading your stuff whether I agree with it or not.
Posted by: Cranky | Dec 25, 2011 7:57:10 PM
no, it wasn't that he realized it wasn't going anywhere and then he decided it was time to rebuild that he did so.
this is the guy that traded chandler and signed thomas instead of felton. he decided to rebuild accidentally by thinking he could upgrade from an 8 seed to a contender by taking away 2 starters and replacing them with with their backups and adding a ton of BS payroll on guys that won't play much.
he was FORCED to rebuild after HIS decisions forced it. his first full year as an owner was an utter failure as far as player personnel goes, not an implemented plan.
i absolutely love the way the direction is going, but they have a lot to prove. jordan was the greatest player ever. he is not smart. he is not a businessman. he made billions off of the brand created by him being the greatest ball player. that being said, i was and still currently sort of am.....thrilled he's the owner and not bob johnson. anything was better than bob and jordan stands to keep the team HERE as opposed to moving it like others wanted (st. louis, seattle). atleast we will be able to say he cares at the end of the day. he does care. its not just business. but he still doesn't know what he's doing.
and rod higgins absolutely has to go. anybody that makes a deal like the dampier deal doesn't deserve to get promoted. they deserve to die (in the basketball sense). that was the most brainless transaction I have seen since the marko jaric fiasco.
i'm hype about tonight. "L-V-P" chants every time jack shoots free throws. WE NEED REAL FANS IN THIS CITY ALREADY. even if our team is horrible we can make something special happen THIS YEAR like it used to be back in the late 80's early 90's and like it still is our in chapel hill and durham. "fi-re hig-gins" chants would be just as approved.
"we need ammo" everytime maggette forgets whats important here.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 26, 2011 2:37:40 PM
OKC was able to prove a small-tier team can win by building through the draft. But they have ONE huge difference the Bobcats don't have: fan support! Since day 1, even when they that team couldn't even win 20 games for the entire season, the place mostly sold out and the arena rocked.
The Seattle Supersonics moved to OKC WITH a young STAR. Charlotte rocked and rolled when the Hornet's were an expansion team, and was the only show in town, much like the Thunder. The Hornet's didn't have a star though, and still led the league in attendence. So don't compare apples to oranges between cities.
Give the team some time. You don't need a team of superstars to win. You need unselfish guys that want to play together to win. It seems Walker will do for the Bobcats what Cam is doing for the Panthers, bring a will to win and attitude to accept nothing else. You will never get top tier free agents in here because the shoe companies have too much say in the process. Get rid of guarenteed contracts and the product would get 10X better.
Posted by: DaveT | Dec 28, 2011 1:55:22 PM
Whoa, why were people writing books in the comments section?
Posted by: long | Dec 28, 2011 3:11:43 PM
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