June 01, 2012
Video: Rick Bonnell on the Bobcats' options at No. 2
What should Michael Jordan and the Charlotte Bobcats do with the No. 2 pick in the 2012 NBA Draft? Who will be the next head coach? CineSport's Noah Coslov and The Charlotte Observer's Rick Bonnell discuss.
Posted by Observer staff on June 1, 2012 at 02:44 PM | Permalink
trade down for 2 picks, grab barnes and sullinger both.
OR trade the sullinger pick coupled with next year's 1st to move up and get drummond to go with barnes.
we get drummond and barnes, i'm like eff anthony davis.
I know we eliminated ewing as a head coaching candidate, but I would love it if they made a run at him as an assistant. especially if we draft drummond. he and biyombo both would surely benefit from his tutelage.
Rick you should really include this FYI in your comments on the supposed 21 million in cap room. That has us with augustin and white playing at the QO (which is probably expected by everybody at this point) and amnesty to maggette. The true number is probably ~10 million cap room unless they amnesty thomas in which case it would be ~18.
Tough to say whether the smart move is to part with thomas now or try and resurrect him but using the amnesty card on maggette NOW means that we absolutely have to eat 8+ million in cap room every year for TT. Better hope thomas gains some muscle bulk if we use it on maggette.
Posted by: charlottean | Jun 1, 2012 3:51:34 PM
I'm no expert in scouting, but as I read the profile of Thomas Robinson, look at his strengths and weaknesses, it seems quite possible and not too difficult for him to become an NBA SF.
The guy is a superb defender with great lateral moves, super athletic, great leaper, strong work ethic, he is 6-9 and 237lbs. He has solid post-up game and rebounding ability, all he needs to improve is his ball handling skill, his perimeter offensive game and perhaps expand his range. These last three are the same weaknesses of MKG.
Thomas Robinson can be an NBA SF with a body similar to Lebron James. No, I'm not saying he'll be Lebron James, but I sure think he can be a Top 10 SF in the NBA in the next 2 seasons and I really believe he is a far better overall player than MKG.
I truly think he can be a better NBA SF than: Caron Butler, Rudy Gay, Danny Granger, Andre Iguodala, Luol Deng and Gerald Wallace. All of these are/or have been All Stars and really solid starter and contributors.
Posted by: RobC | Jun 1, 2012 4:56:56 PM
I'd take robinson over gilchrist but I would take barnes and sullinger over either so why would you keep the pick if 2 picks are available?
I understand gilchrist being a great pro prospect. I do not understand him being above barnes, sullinger, lamb, beal, etc. who severely outperformed him in college. seems like a marvin williams type pick to me.
as for robinson being a 3......i don't see it. not top 10. i would definitely take durant, melo, lebron, rudy gay, nic batum, paul pierce, luol deng, gallinari, danny granger, kawhi leonard, and chandler parsons over dude. maybe gerald wallace.
You're just so much better off taking players for the positions they play instead of trying to change them. Trade back and grab barnes and another pick. Trade the 2nd round pick up and grab melo or miller.
Posted by: charlottean | Jun 1, 2012 5:42:02 PM
seriously....Robinson a 3? Get out of here. His ceiling is low, the same with MKG. I thought the plan was to build through the draft...take risks and hope they turn out to be great players. The only two players worth the #2 pick are Drummond and Beal. Drummond is 18....he is going to take time to develop, but you can't teach his size. After all it takes big men a while i.e. Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum. At this point early in their careers were they raw? Yes. Was their desire to be great questioned? Yes...Bottom line, when you have a chance to draft a 6'11 275 monster...you do it.
Drummond and Beal are the only two players in this draft (besides Davis) who have the chance to be a real star one day. And unless we want to be where we were in 2010...barely making the playoffs...you have to take a risk and draft someone with enormous potential. Yes it will take time, and we have to be patient. But for us to climb out of the cellar we have to be opportunistic.
Posted by: CLO | Jun 1, 2012 8:35:19 PM
we got lemons time to make lemonade! trade #2 pick and next years first round pick for Dwight Howard and sign Williams!
Posted by: joe cool | Jun 1, 2012 10:13:12 PM
i agree with clo the 2 guys u decide to take r either beal or drummond. Beal can score right away and create his own shot a problem most of the bobcats cant. Drummond is a high risk reward guy but the bobcats stink so it might be worth the gamble. Mkg just isnt a good prospect at 2, u can find wings all over the nba and mkg doesnt have much range on his jumper. If you think the bobcats need wings there are a ton of wings in next years draft, the bobcats are going to be in the lottery again next year. They also have the first pick of the 2nd round and while this isnt a great draft it is pretty deep. i think they can get someone who contributes at that pick
Posted by: cats | Jun 1, 2012 11:13:42 PM
of all the players in the draft I think Charlotte should choose Harrison Barnes. I think he will be a superstar in the Nba.I think he has lot upside. I think game is made for the nba.
Posted by: lb | Jun 2, 2012 1:39:00 AM
Why is mj talked about as if he is the gm? He is the owner, why can't people get that right?
Posted by: crymeariver | Jun 2, 2012 2:29:04 AM
CLO, I agree with the logic but I think barnes belongs in that category as well. He's every bit the scorer beal is but with better size. beal is an effing player. but so is hendo. if i'm picking between beal and hendo, I'm probably going beal but if i'm picking between beal or hendo AND barnes....i'm going hendo AND barnes.
If we go beal or drummond, I would love to see them trade up for miller late in the first. They could get 3 upper echelon nba starters in this draft with the right maneuvering.
we should do everything possible to get 2 picks in the top 8 and get that 2nd rounder turned into a late 1st to get miller or melo.
Posted by: charlottean | Jun 2, 2012 2:59:47 PM
I also agree with CLO. Charlottean, no way am I taking Barnes over Beal. Barnes can't dribble! Beal is the only one with the offensive skill to complete in the NBA right now and that's what the Bobcats need players that can score and score right now. The Bobcats are terrible because they have a history of drafting guys with suspect offensive games. They get to the league and surprise they can't score consistently. A team full of players like that and you get a team that can not score consistently. The Bobcats need scoring and Beal is the best scorer in the draft PERIOD!
Posted by: moboythunder | Jun 2, 2012 5:21:14 PM
Are u people kidding me? For the ones that believe T. Rob will be a star. Thank you, this dude is no less than number 2 in the draft. If we trade away the pick I mean who else is out there. Ok Beal, Barnes, and Sullinger, Drummond. Let's get real do you want 2 average players. Plus the only team looks to do that is Portland. 6 and 11 and whose to say they last to those numbers. People laughed when I said Paul Pierce would be a superstar and all star. Man do u people understand basketball. Take Robinson at number 2 and grab a Granger or Iggy. Try to get a pg in the long run hopefully that can play with veteran experience. Ray felt or Jeremy Lin.
Posted by: tbird | Jun 2, 2012 11:37:59 PM
I don't see how beal is this incredibly consistent scorer and barnes isn't. Numbers completely dispute that. The problem with beals is he's a 2. He's a really good 2, but so is hendo (or will be). Beal is clearly better than hendo and has edges over barnes but for US, the better move is barnes and henderson instead of beal and henderson. Unless you have a deal for henderson for a top 7 pick.
Otherwise, you are hurting both beal AND henderson by splitting their minutes instead of givingg them 36 mpg they deserve. You get barnes and you get the same kind of scoring without him being a ball stopper, and you have offense from 1-3-4 and stellar defense from 2 & 5.
Watch how good augustin looks this year when he's healthy and actually knows his teammates strengths. He and mullens in the pick and roll is going to be something.
Because his last few games were weak, people forget how many HUGE games barnes not only played in, or won, but lead his team in the clutch. I think beal is just as good and there are pros and cons to both guys but barnes fits way better with the pieces we already have. Way better than mkg too.
Posted by: charlottean | Jun 3, 2012 10:40:24 AM
How about this break down...
1. Trade tyrus thomas, gerald henderson, and dj (sign and trade) for amare stoudemire
2. trade kemba walker and cory maggette for kyle lowry and the 14th pick in the draft
3. draft bradley beal with the 2nd pick, draft tyler zeller with the 14th pick, and draft jae crowder out of marquette
4. sign antwan jamison, jonny flynn, reggie evans, and resign derrick brown
PG-- Lowry/ Flynn
SG-- Beal/ Reggie Williams
SF-- Crowder or Brown/ Brown or Crowder
C-- Amare/ Zeller/ Mullens
Fill out the rest with whoever but this would not be a bad core at all. Amare plays better when he has a pg who can pass (lowry) and is the go to guy. Beal gives us three point shooting. Crowder brings toughness. Jamison brings scoring. Zeller brings a BIG body who can succeed as a role player
Posted by: Charlottecatsfan | Jun 3, 2012 11:44:41 AM
Thomas Robinson should be the best pick at #2. Then take O'Quinn from Norfolk St. with the 1st pick in the 2nd round.
Posted by: Chuck | Jun 3, 2012 9:22:08 PM
Houston isn't going to do lowry AND a pick for walker AND maggette.
Amare's contract iisn't insurable and he's too old for a rebuild. The last thing this franchise needs right now is a brandon roy allan houston type situation with an amare type contract.
Much easier to trade back, get barnes and someone else probably a 5. Keep henderson. Try to get dragic but keep d.j. if unsuccessful. Trade our 2nd rounder up to get quincy miller or fab melo.
Only way it makes sense to trade henderson is if we get a top 10 pick in this draft for him. If we can parlay him into getting beal AND barnes or beal AND drummond, that's a solid play. But to move him just to move him and draft beal to hurt both of their development is nuts. Hendo is worth a 6 to 10 pick. It's very clear he will start in the league as long as he's healthy and could be a starter on a champiionship caliber team.
Posted by: charlottean | Jun 4, 2012 8:02:44 AM
Hey Rick, how about rather than your general, vague conjecture actually propose some viable options that the Bobcats could sign/draft?
Posted by: Sambo | Jun 4, 2012 8:57:42 AM
Charlottean you must be smoking something. You can't go by college numbers some players have a college game and other players have a pro game. To think TROB is not a top ten player in the draft. You are comparing hime to guys with 3-13 years in the league. He is more ready for the NBA than the over inflated Davis.
Posted by: TrueBBallFan | Jun 5, 2012 10:22:17 AM
some kids can't read.
i was responding to someone saying thomas robinson would be a top 10 small forward in the nba in 2 or 3 years or something.
never once said he wouldn't be a top 10 or top 5 pick in this draft. but he's a power forward. i don't think he should be our pick but I won't be devastated if he is. He, mullens and biyombo should make for a pretty solid front court rotation. We have multiple holes and he won't be the answer to all of those problems. he's also not leaps and bounds better than the other guys that are top 8 prospects. Trading back to add a pick in this draft would be great.
Our biggest hole is small forward. barnes is a better prospect than gilchrist and barnes should be available somewhere 5-8. If portland wants robinson, beal or gilchrist....we could get barnes and sullinger at 6 and 11.
I will say this....sullinger>robinson. everything robinson did as a junior, sullinger did as a freshmen.
Posted by: charlottean | Jun 5, 2012 5:05:53 PM
Sullinger will amount to an undersized, soft, backup small forward. He's too small to play PF and he's not strong enough. Thomas Robinson is much more well rounded and a better athlete, without question. They should make a trade Clevelend the 2nd pick, the 31st pick for the 4th and 24th pick and take Andre Drummond at 4 and an athletic SF at 24...maybe Quincy Miller.
Posted by: MikeASU | Jun 5, 2012 10:47:31 PM
sullinger is listed at 6'9 265
robinson is listed at 6'9 237 and people have openly questioned his height measurement and think he's 6'8 or under.
hilarious how you guys invent ish in your head. 17.5 and 9.2 as a freshmen on a 32-2 team. sullinger is a year younger than robinson yet more experienced and accomplished.
the thing that is exciting about drummond is he is young and looks insanely good in spurts. but at the end of the day, marvin williams, jonathan bender, anthony randolph, andray blatche all looked the same way. gamers win out ask rondo. it would be different if he was 7-1 and going to a team with good leadership like andrew bynum did but you just can't build around a guy like drummond given his track record.
every single year people overthink the draft and let solid talent go past and get to the contenders.
Posted by: charlottean | Jun 6, 2012 10:12:35 AM
What are you going to do with Biyombo if Sullinger is drafted? I wouldn't mind trading back and getting Barnes though.
I would spend every waking hour trying to figure out how to get rid of the Thomas contract if I'm in the FO.
Posted by: Sambo | Jun 7, 2012 10:37:25 AM
biyombo will be our starting 5, regardless of who we draft. sullinger, mullens, biyombo in a 3 man rotation at the 4/5.
looks like barnes will be gone at 4, so no trading back to get him unless cleveland wants beal more which doesn't appear to be the case.
thomas will need to play his way into his contract being moveable. the only way we can move it now is for something like andray blatche or charlie villanueva. rather just ride it out with the guy and amnesty him next summer if it is of benefit. it probably won't be. his contract will become tradeable by the time the amnesty means anything to us.
Posted by: charlottean | Jun 7, 2012 2:45:31 PM
This "ceiling" thing's got to go. Does anybody remember Kevin Love? If you have a motor and a great work ethic + the physical traits, it's a no-brainer - take Robinson and at the very least you have somebody who'll give you 17-10 from the get-go. He will give you that and more for the next 10+ years. Do it.
Posted by: purplerain | Jun 7, 2012 7:17:32 PM
^^^ flawed logic. I know what you mean about reaching for potential and don't disagree at all. that's basically how I feel too. but to use that logic to justify thomas robinson at 2 is backwards. he put up 18 and 12 LAST YEAR 1 year. and as a junior. That does not project a consistent 17 & 10 guy in the nba. I think he'll be solid in the pros (maybe as good as aldridge but more likely to be okafor-like at best consistent but unspectacular (not comparing game, just production). at worst kurt thomas esque.
But so if you want to go the safe route for the proven guy with stats......why would you not trade down, pick up an additional pick and get sullinger or zeller or henson or whoever. sullinger gave you 17 and 10 as a freshman, turned around and gave you 17 and 9 as a sophmore in slightly less time and with a huge target on him. he also made more 3's in college than robinson did in 3 years. and shot better %'s.
zeller gave you 16 and 10 on a stacked team. and in less minutes and better %'s.
henson 14 and 10. less minutes, same %'s more or less. way more blocks.
point is....with all the holes that we have, it's more valuable to trade back if we can. even if thomas robinson is a sure thing and turns out to be better than both of the guys we pick....we increase our probabilities getting 2 guys in this bunch.
you move back and get sullinger and miller, you now have your starting 3 and starting 4 not just starting 4 and either of those 2 guys could be better than robinson based on all the pedigree evidence.
if we stay at 2.....different scenario, only people to consider is robinson, beal, and barnes. if portland doesn't want 2, then you tell cleveland you're taking barnes. we need to get 2 permanent rotation caliber players for a contender. we missed on walker last year, we should absolutely be interested in moving him for another pick in this group. If we could get one of portland's picks straight up for walker, you can take beal @ 2 and a big or miller with the other pick.
that talk about this being a 1 player draft is GARBAGE. this is a significantly stronger draft class than last year.
Posted by: charlottean | Jun 8, 2012 12:59:57 PM
will say this....sullinger>robinson. everything robinson did as a junior, sullinger did as a freshmen.
Robinson didn't get his shot until junior yar as there were other ahead of him at Kansas and the issue is yes Sullinger did it as a feshman and has regressed evry year since then
Posted by: TrueBBallFan | Jun 8, 2012 1:03:48 PM
Charlottean, I'm a Tar Heel born (via the Army) and I'll be a Tar Heel dead but to suggest that Barnes, Zeller or Henson in a package for Robinson is better for our team is near-sighted. We'd be jumping the gun. I'd take Zeller if we were picking 10 to 15, but I would not gamble on Barnes or Henson any higher. We need pieces, but it's going to take time. Robinson passes the eye test. Everything that I've read, seen or heard about him suggests that he'll be the piece of a "big three" that any successful NBA team needs now-a-days. Trust me, our time will come.
Posted by: purplerain | Jun 9, 2012 12:12:38 AM
Regressed every year since? He put up the same numbers as a sophomore with a target on his back the whole season. No regression what so ever. Where do you guys get this stuff?
Barnes is equally on the level of robinson. He did more than pass the eye test these last 2 years. He has 2 bad games to end his college career and he goes from last year sure fire #1 to this year's #4 or back. We definitely don't need 3 tar heel players in 1 draft. Doesn't help team chemistry, or fan support. I'm saying, those guys did everything robinson did and had tougher competition within their team and conference.
There have been a lot of underwhelming "can't miss" #2 picks lately....i think turner and williams could still turn out okay but haven't shown much yet. Johnson, thabeet, beasley. Since durant it's been rough. Most gms reach at that spot instead of doing something safe.
Beal is the safest pick here but you just can't feel like shooting guard is a good pick for us. That said, you can trade back and get sullinger AND someone else instead of taking robinson.
I don't dislike robinson at all, but anyone arguing he's better than sullinger has no justification for their reasons. They are at the very least equal, so why would you take robinson @ 2 if you could have sullinger AND a playerr to be named.
There are a ton of high talent prospects in this draft. And 1 guy does not get it done anymore. 2 Wasn't getting it done for miami. 3 Did. We should try and get multiple picks here.
Trading walker for a pick would be smart but I know they won't.
Posted by: charlottean | Jun 10, 2012 9:23:00 AM
First of all, Deron Williams was traded when it became apparent he may not re-sign with Utah and shortly after his falling out with Jerry Sloan, which eventually led to Sloan retiring.
Second, Williams was traded for Devin Harris (a solid starting point guard who once played in the All-Star Game), a 2011 first-round pick that turned up being the No. 3 overall pick (Enes Kanter), a future potential first-round pick (top 6 protected in 2013, top 7 protected in 2014) and rookie Derrick Favors (the No. 3 pick in the 2010 draft). It's safe to say New Jersey gave up a ton to get Williams, which is typical when you try to acquire a player of his caliber in a trade.
Charlotte simply doesn't have the leverage to get a player the quality of Williams, one of the top point guards in the NBA. It's simply an unrealistic attempt at a parallel.
Posted by: Najee12 | Jun 10, 2012 3:42:04 PM
Agree completely and to add on, new jersey didn't win much this year and williams hasn't signed the extension yet, nor has he successfully lured anybody else there yet. Maybe that all changes with an orlando trade, but favors, kanter, a future pick, harris AND they gave up number 6 this year for gerald wallace who they are going to have to overpay to keep.
And harris was an allstar but he isn't that caliber. He was overpaid big time.
I really think we need to think a walker for lillard or marshall trade draft night. After bringing in olshey, portland looks prime for trading back to 6 and 11. They want vets to surround aldridge. Might could even throw an augustin or henderson their way and not have to give up #2 and get both their picks for one player and facillitating a trade that gets them another vet.
A lot of options should start to become available as teams start showing their hands more.
Posted by: charlottean | Jun 10, 2012 8:03:29 PM
t-rob, barnes or sullinger, i would take either one, barnes can be your sf..i prefer the pick be traded for a 2 for 1 deal
Posted by: pantherlove | Jun 11, 2012 10:04:19 AM
sullinger and t-rob both measured 6'7.75 w/o shoes. robinson with half the body fat, I think he had slightly better wing span and sullinger had slightly better standing reach.
no question robinson has the better athletic body but shaq didn't exactly have 5% body fat. neither did barkley. nor malone. Safer bet health wise is definitely robinson but there's always going to be freak injuries and there will always be dejaun blair's and such.
kemba walker for shawne williams and no. 6 from portland. swap 2 for 4 and 24 with cleveland. pick 4,6,24,31. maybe do the deal for 11 instead of 6. Maybe. I really like trading walker and getting rivers back. Same guy more or less but rivers has slightly better size, slightly bigger balls (crazy to think) and he's what? 3 years younger? and he'll get a lower rookie scale more than likely he'll get picked in the early teens. He would be IDEAL to pair with augustin. far more capable of guarding a 2 than augustin or walker. If they made THAT move, it would prove that cho actually has a say so in things.
also very intrigued by the bulls situation in need of moving luol deng because of luxury tax issues and hoping to replace him with barnes/mkg/beal on rookie scale. we could absorb the contract AND potentially give up that top 5 pick they want if they can sweeten the pot enough. maybe you get houston involved with their picks and players. deng straight up for maggette to be amnestied after makes a ton of sense. and we would still be able to amnesty thomas if we decide to. deng is only 26 so he's not too old to have in the rebuild and his contract isn't TOO long to think you would be stuck with him forever. this makes a lot of sense for us. he and mullens are international teammates. he and biyombo are from the same region. he and thomas were teammates in chicago. he and henderson are duke alumn. lot of tie ins chemistry wise and his defensive backround fits what it appears we are wanting to do.
Posted by: charlottean | Jun 11, 2012 3:05:33 PM
Bulls wouldn't be able to amnesty Maggette due to the fact that the player amenstied (word?) must have been on the team at the time the CBA was signed. A team cannot trade for a player and then amnesty such player.
Tell me why Portland would give up a player and the no. 6 for Walker considering Walker was the 9th player taken last year in a weaker draft? I say let Kemba progress and if he can hit a jumper he could be a solid player.
I think I'd rather have 6 and 11 from Portland than 4 and 24 from Cleveland, but MKG, Beal, or T-Rob would be there at 4 (any of which would be a solid pick). That said, I think either of those moves would be productive trade.
Posted by: Sambo | Jun 11, 2012 8:58:05 PM
1) you could be right about the amnesty rule but all I ever saw was that the contract was signed prior and that each team only gets 1.
2) portland needs a point guard. They don't want shawn williams, that would just be to strengthen the offer by taking him off their hands. Walker isn't going to be more than what he was last year. I'm thinking sell high while people might still see potential. He's going to be a good rotation player in the nba, but not an elite starting point guard. Another draft pick in this draft would be far more valuable.
3) agree. 4 might be the best pick in the draft. I want as many picks as possible. I don't think it's farfetched to swap 2 to cleveland and then swap 24 and 31 for something higher up OR 31 and walker for 6 or 11.
I am really starting to hope we pull a deal for luol deng somehow. It's such a good fit but I think they would view that as a half step instead of a full step. Daddy Kane said it.
Posted by: charlottean | Jun 12, 2012 3:53:09 PM
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