July 06, 2013
Charlotte Bobcats summer-league roster
Charlotte Bobcats veterans Bismack Biyombo, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and Jeff Taylor will play on the franchise’s summer-league team in Las Vegas, as will rookie Cody Zeller.
The Bobcats start play in Las Vegas Friday at 10 p.m., facing the San Antonio Spurs. They’ll play at least five games, possibly more if they advance in a single-elimination tournament later in the schedule,
The summer roster with name, position and affiliation:
Nick Barbour, guard, High Point
Bismack Biyombo, forward-center, Bobcats
Troy Daniels, guard, Virginia Commonwealth
Jerome Dyson, guard, Connecticut
Patrick Ewing Jr., forward, Georgetown
Abdul Gaddy, guard, Washington
Solomon Jones, center, South Florida
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, forward, Bobcats
Rodney McGruder, guard, Kansas State
Henry Sims, center, Georgetown
Jamie Skeen, forward, Virginia Commonwealth
Jeff Taylor, forward, Bobcats
Brandon Triche, guard, Syracuse
Deron Washington, forward, Virginia Tech
Cody Zeller, forward-center, Bobcats
Posted by Observer Sports on July 6, 2013 at 07:39 PM | Permalink
I've seen Nick Barbour from High Point play...he's seems to be pretty 1 dimensional, but in a good way. The kids shoots lights out behind the arc. He shot it at 48% which was good enough for 1st or 2nd in the country I think (Back in 2012).
Posted by: truth_cutz | Jul 6, 2013 8:18:25 PM
Skeen was a highly touted recruit for WFU, but only played 2 years, seemed to be a pretty good player, but I think he got in trouble...
Posted by: truth_cutz | Jul 6, 2013 8:19:47 PM
Skeen carried VCU to the final 4. Did not get in trouble at Wake
Posted by: Rickpitonoseyejob | Jul 6, 2013 8:26:12 PM
Nick Barbour reined at High Point for four years, also a very nice guy
Posted by: Thomas Belk | Jul 6, 2013 9:00:58 PM
Henry Sims from Georgetown could be a intriguing player to watch in Vegas. Did very well in the d-league last year for BayHawks (16.4 points, 8.5 rebounds, 1.5 blocks a game) (41 games played).
Posted by: will | Jul 6, 2013 9:14:06 PM
had no idea skeen was added to the summer league roster. DOPE.
if i'm not mistaken.......north meck class of '06.
We have 2-4 roster spots open assuming henderson is signed. I think troy daniels has a significant chance to prove himself to be the 3rd pg. Would be awesome if skeen and curry grabbed spots as well.
Skeen was projected an nba talent coming out of high school and then seemingly hit a wall at wake. thought somebody would have grabbed him with a 2nd rounder after what he did at VCU. that (like steph curry at davidson) was one of the greatest small school runs in the tourney carried by him.
he did get in trouble at wake, but he also was there when skip prosser died and it happened afterwards. had some injuries as well.
not as gritty as jeff adrien, but way more skilled. could see him have an anthony tolliver/chris copeland like break into the league.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 6, 2013 9:39:17 PM
i don't know too many normal people medaling at the special olympics procton.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 6, 2013 9:48:29 PM
If I'm picking up sides at Carmel park I take Kid Skeen over "The Next" every, single, time. That Kid Skeen knows how to play the game, he can catch, dribble AND shoot! WOW!!
I hope the BOBcats sign Skeen, love that kid....it would put "The Next" 5th on the depth chart behind Big Al, Cody, Josh and Kid Skeen...."The Next" might have to go D-league to get some minutes.
What's the over/under on Shorty shooting higher than 80% from the line in the coming season?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 6, 2013 9:55:27 PM
I go to High Point, Nick Barbour was lights out shooting. Played really well over seas last year too. Really hoping he'll make the team
Posted by: Tyler Blackshaw | Jul 6, 2013 11:11:52 PM
i don't know, but i'm definitely going over. he's right at 80% for 2 years and just over his senior year in college and now you have mark price on board.
i still don't understand your hate for biz. shot blockers are rare. they get drafted high. always. especially when they're 18 and have a great attitude/work ethic and you feel like they can learn A TON in the next 5 years to become a more complete player.
do not get how ANY bobcats fan could feel like he's not a huge part of our future and a positive part of it. he's not holding the team back in any regard. analytics say the team performed better overall with him on the floor than off it over the past 2 years.
skeen is definitely a 4 by design, but he's barely 6-8 in shoes. that's where the copeland comparison comes in.....dude can shoot it a bit.
would love it if he and curry both got a year look. we gotta start finding diamonds in the rough. makes no sense how the lakers and knicks and raptors and rockets can keep pulling these guys out of nowhere and outside of matt carroll, we can't find one.
especially this year where we have roster space that we HAVE to use and don't really have a need for it in the rotation at the moment.
walker/hendo/mkg/zeller/jefferson seems to be the likely 5 with sessions/gordon/taylor/mcroberts/biz being the 2nd unit. can't see us making any moves (or needing to) that would change that part of the roster unless it involves a big trade.
and carmel park is the go-to spot? weak. i don't think you would have those caliber of options out there unless things have changed drastically over the last few years.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 6, 2013 11:20:13 PM
It makes total sense. Those franchises have competent management.
The Bobcats have Jordan and a bunch of clueless noobs.
Patrick Ewing 's son is on this roster, pathetic. Lets bring Corey back in, and how about one of Jordan's sons?
Posted by: Frank | Jul 6, 2013 11:44:13 PM
^^^^^^ almost every single summer league team in the league has a coaches kid or a players brother or a former player's son on it. hurts nobody while throwing someone close a bone.
that said.......nobody actually goes out and signs their own kid like higgins did. that was insane.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 7, 2013 1:45:07 AM
Good point about Mark Price, that can only help.
I don't hate Biz, in fact I like him....I wish all NBA players were as polite and well adjusted as he is -- the NBA Thug Factor is off the charts and at all-time highs, would be non-existent is Biz were typical...
...but I have an opinion on his potential that is apparently far different than most "fans". Cho sold the fans a bill of good there...
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 7, 2013 10:24:50 AM
Summer league is about two things: player development and upside dreaming. You bring a few roster guys to accelerate their development and a bunch of guys with dreams. Give the latter a chance to show what they have to offer. Then you see if their dreams are compatible with your team's dream for the best kept secret with upside. Value in basketball is all about upside. Is there a lightning quick point guard who needs to learn judgment or an athletic guy with length who needs to learn better rebounding positioning?
I think it's ok to dream for a few weeks each summer, and there are always a couple of guys with upside who slip into the NBA and the next summer are playing as roster guys.
Plus we have to thank all those guys for dreaming big and giving their all so that summer league rosters can be filled out and guys like Biyombo and MKG and Zeller can develop in a game context.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 7, 2013 11:15:14 AM
i don't think most "fans" believe cho or listen to any logic at all.
I think those in support of biyombo are in the minority. but the guy is ALREADY nba caliber at 20. how can you think his potential isn't solid 15 year starter based on that and his work ethic to lead to improvement?
i don't see where there's any reasonable negative for the guy as a prospect given the facts. he's NOT as bad offensively as its been presented, he's just a very low usage player. you need guys like that to pair with guys like walker. if he gives you a higher rebound rate, slightly more blocks, improves his free throw %, and fg % a bit.....he's solid.
if someone sold you on him being shaq or olajuwon, let that go because that was never the case and a horrible reference point for comparisons.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 7, 2013 12:26:36 PM
Charlottean is right again. Biyombo is ahead of the curve if given the proper comparison. The proper comparison is Ben Wallace, and Biyombo is a couple years ahead of Big Ben at 20. That is a guy I want on my team either as a complimentary starter or as a break the heart of my opponent sixth man off the bench.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 7, 2013 12:50:26 PM
The comparisons of Biyombo to Wallace are laughable, at best. Excuse me, but didn't Bismack get drafted in the top 10? Yet, Ben Wallace wasn't even drafted and was a one-dimensional player. Yes, you would expect a one-dimensional player when they are NOT drafted...not when they are a top 10 pick.
When you are a top 10 pick, you should have many dominating qualities, along with loads of potential. So far, all Biyombo has is a bit of rebounding, as his scoring consistency is just a bit lacking. Face it gang, Kahwi Leonard, Klay Thompson, or Kenneth Faried would have been so much better of a choice than dealing with a potential bust in Biz.
Posted by: Bob goes Horny in 2014 | Jul 7, 2013 2:43:23 PM
I'm confused. What does it matter that Ben Wallace wasn't drafted? He was a starter and a key component on a championship team that made two consecutive Finals appearances. I'd take that. The fact that he wasn't drafted speaks to teams missing his potential. Just like Rodman (drafted 27th), who went on to be one of the top rebounders of all time, and won multiple championships with two teams as a key contributor despite never being a factor on the offensive end.
The Bobcats should be applauded for not missing Biyombo's potential. At 23 in his second year, Wallace averaged 3 points, 5 rebounds, and 1 block. At age 25 Dennis Rodman averaged 6 points, 4 rebounds and 1/2 a block. At 20 years old, Biyombo averaged 5 points, 7 rebounds, and 2 blocks. He projects to be better than either of these guys.
That's pretty good for a 10th pick. I'd much rather Biyombo than guys like Michaek Olowokandi and Raef LaFrentz who were picked 1st and 3rd respectively in their draft.
Did the Bobcats find a superstar with the 10th pick? No, but I'd say that's a pretty high bar. What they did find is a great character guy with loads of potential on the boards and the defensive end. I'm satisfied.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 7, 2013 3:38:03 PM
there goes that hindsight draft BS that charlotte fans LOVE to play with. Faried and Wallace are golden nuggets that EVERYBODY would use top 10 picks on if the draft were redone. Both were missed on mostly because they came from no name schools.
And in faried's case......he's 3 years older than biyombo, so not at all fair to compare his contributions thus far with biyombo's.
we're talking about a guy that was the youngest in the league and finished top 10 in blocks back to back years while playing less than 30 mpg. that's significant. it's something to build on.
there have been plenty of guys FAR WORSE than biyombo drafted top 10. PLENTY. every year there's a few. vesely and freddette appear to be among them from biz's class, but that can also be circumstantial.
you can never fully analyze a draft until 5-10 years later to really see how things panned out AFTER guys settled in and developed.
we haven't seen royce white play outside of a few d-league games (where he was impressive). is he a bust? blake griffin didn't play his rookie year either.
you guys have got to have more patience with these young guys. biz is NOT going to be out of the league in a few years which would indicate he was a bad pick and/or failed to develop. the guy is going to be a starter for the next 15 years. how is that a poor use of the #7 pick when you're talking about a center? this is the same fan base that wanted to take alex len 4th overall?!
biyombo would have gone for 20/12/6 last year in the ACC. dude would have looked like shaq going up against guys like mcadoo and plumlee and howell. while len was putting up mediocre numbers there, biyombo was putting up mediocre numbers against dwight howard, brook lopez, tim duncan, kevin garnett, joakim noah, etc. etc. etc.
if you don't see significant improvement going into this season, i'll be very surprised. keep in mind the kid had NO summer league, NO offseason workouts going into his rookie year (just like kemba) and is already on his 3rd coach.
we're betting against the raw 20 year old who already is a 2 tool player and is now going to be coached by patrick ewing? you would bet against that?
only in charlotte would sports fans expect more out of the youngest players in the league.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 7, 2013 4:15:09 PM
With young players, a lot of the evaluation process is perspective.
Are you judging them on their positives or negatives?
Everyone is saying Oladipo had a fantastic first summer league game because he had a stat stuffing line, but one could just as easily focus on the fact that he went 5-13 from the field (an MKG type shooting performance) or that he had six turnovers to go with those 7 assists.
If you're positive, you can look at the contributions guys like Biyombo and MKG make and then figure out how to adjust the coaching and personnel around them to benefit from their positives and minimize their negatives. Just like the Grizzlies learned to do with Zach Randolp or the Pistons and Bulls learned to do with Dennis Rodman.
Other than maybe 5 or 6 guys in the league, every player has limitations. That's why the rare flawless players (James, Duncan) make so many Finals appearances. They're impossible to stop, and few teams have the equivalent.
You go out there and compete and develop a program, and if you develop the organization the right way, one day you have a breakthrough. Look at the Rockets. It took them years before Hakeem broke through with those two championships (and it helped that he didn't have to face Jordan).
But I think the Bobcats are on the right road now. Great, respected coach. Assistants who have achieved excellence at the positions they played. An improving cap situation coinciding with talent finally being open to signing with the team. A roster full of young talented players with upside. A treasure chest of future first round picks. And a name change on the horizon that's going to contribute to team identity and fan support.
What more could you want less than ten years into a franchise's existence?
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 7, 2013 5:31:58 PM
seth curry and a more educated fan base.
and for the organization (and observer writers) to officially state for the record that adam morrison's career "bust" label was way more their fault than his.
then i'm good.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 7, 2013 5:59:27 PM
Why not. I'd sign Curry to a short deal with a team option. If we draft a long combo guard with one of our picks in the 2014 draft, then Curry could play SG with the second unit on offense, guard pg's on defense. Otherwise I don't know how he'll do. He's kind of in the Ben Gordon mold and will do better if he doesn't have to carry pg duties or cover shooting guards.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 7, 2013 7:06:17 PM
You guys really just started to follow basketball, so I will allow for your ignorance.
Jeff, drafting a player is important and does matter. BTW, Biz was drafted 7th...I said he was drafted in the top 10, so you already failed.
As for Charlottean, you must have been prescribed some medicinal marijuana from another State, because you are smoking something. Don't waste my time, or anyone else's trying to sell Biyombo as something special.
For you boneheads, he hasn't done jack, and he hasn't proven anything. Now, if you want to be convinced that this guy will some day be a rebounding king, be my guest. Today, you're getting laughed at. Kawhi Leonard was on the radar on draft day, so tell me that hindsight is 20/20; I wasn't the one calling the shots. Therefore, I can make fun of this bomb of a draft choice until the day you can prove me wrong. As of today, you're wrong about Biz...and I am right. Stats don't lie.
Posted by: Bob goes Horny in 2014 | Jul 7, 2013 9:31:33 PM
Don't know why you had to bust out the ad hominems, but I've been following basketball since Bird was posting triple doubles back in the Boston Garden on his way to winning three championships. By the way, I was there for many of those games, and I remember how Hakeem in the 1980's would come into the building, play a great three quarters, and then run out of gas in the fourth. It wasn't until Rudy T surrounded Hakeem with the right players that he finally won it all.
So that's where you're wrong about Biz. He hasn't had any big men or 3 point shooters around him, so the defense can collapse on him and protect the rim. Now that he has a couple bigs around him, let's see how he does. And then let's reevaluate again when the team has a few three point shooters.
By the way, Leonard was picked 15, so a lot of teams passed on him after Biyombo was picked, and I doubt very much he would have been as good on any of those teams as he has been on the Spurs. Systems matter, and The Spurs have one of the best systems in the league. We're only now on our way.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 7, 2013 9:53:07 PM
Why haven't we signed Seth Curry. Forget the fact that he is from Charlotte, the fact that he is a Curry is good enough. He is a no nonsense type of player and can flat out shoot it from anywhere. We are stupid for not having him on our squad.
Posted by: William Ham | Jul 7, 2013 10:13:46 PM
Well Jeff, since you ask...
...10 years in the Hornets had already been to the playoffs 4 times and won a couple of playoff series.
In years 11-15 they went to the playoffs 4 more times for a total of 8 playoff appearances in first 15 years.
That's what I want.
By comparison, in 9 years the BOBcats made the playoffs once and then promptly sank to depths never before seen in NBA history. 15 years in if the BOBcats have been to the playoffs more than 3 times I will be very surprised.
21-120 (15% win rate)...BOBcats combined record in years 8-9. Hornets were 95-69 (58% win rate) in same time frame.
Yeah, I want that too...58% that is.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 7, 2013 10:14:53 PM
True, the original Charlotte Hornets did get off to a quick start.
I think the reborn Charlotte Hornets will as well....
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 8, 2013 12:13:45 AM
I can't believe nobody here is talking about Rodney McGruder being on the roster. Kid was a baller at K State, leading their team.
Posted by: Marty Hurney | Jul 8, 2013 9:15:19 AM
There are some very interesting unsigned guys on this roster. Skeen, Ewing, Sims, Triche and Daniels all catch my eye... We need to add five players to get to 15 unless we sign another FA. So I would likley add Skeen, Ewing and Sims for sure. Add a PG - either Daniels or bring back Pargo. Add another shooting guard - likely Triche or Curry. All these guys would be on the bench most of the time but could contribute if someone on the first or second team gets injured.
Posted by: Dom | Jul 8, 2013 9:54:29 AM
And throw McGruder into that list for third string two guard. Bobcats are doing some solid scouting and have some very solid prospects on this roster!
Posted by: Dom | Jul 8, 2013 9:56:10 AM
I'm such a bonehead that I was campaigning for leonard in that draft. literally blown away he was even available at 9. doesn't make biz a bad pick because someone else has had more success quicker. leonard has thrived because he's on a great team, biz is on his 3rd coach in 3 years. different players completely. if he hasn't shown you ANYTHING then you clearly haven't watched the games.
you CANNOT compare the hornets and bobcats and blame it ALL on jordan. it's largely his fault, but bob johnson was one of the worst sports owners of all time. he was horrible. we had a scouting department of 1-2 people for years. he set us back 10 years with what he did (and didn't do) in the first 2 years of the franchise alone.
things have been righted, reset button has been hit....things appear to be moving in the right direction. rod higgins still needs to go though.
that all said, i didn't like the jefferson signing.......but now i hate it. j.j. hickson got 15 million for 3 years and we're paying jefferson almost all of that PER year. given THAT context......jefferson was BEYOND overpaid. if hickson gets 5 a year, jefferson is worth 7 or 8 a year TOPS. would have much rather had hickson.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 8, 2013 9:58:19 AM
I wanted Sims when he came out of college. Was hoping we could get him as an undrafted FA then - but I think he actually was drafted late second round. I think Sims could develop into a solid big man off the bench. Skeen can play three or four so I like the idea of signing him. There are quite a few guards on this roster that are interesting. Daniels is blasing fast; Triche has a nice all around game and has two guard size. McGruder needs a long look too - and once Curry is healthy we need to find a way to get him on the roster too. Dyson is decent too - and could be a diamond in the rough. Again - I am pleased with this roster...
Posted by: Dom | Jul 8, 2013 10:09:59 AM
I'm with you on Hickson. I was wondering why there wasn't talk of the Bobcats going after him given that it seemed he would receive less money than Jefferson. Did anyone expect it to be this much less money? You wonder if his agent made a contact with the Bobcats, and if not, it's possible that JJ wasn't interested in playing for a team in the middle of a rebuild. Certainly he has a better chance of winning right now with Denver.
I wonder how much of the Jefferson signing was an attempt by the Cats to change their reputation? To communicate to future free agents that this is a team elite talent will sign with? That said I would still have preferred the younger, cheaper guy with more upside, especially since his skill set is less likely to land the team outside the top ten pick. Which of course is an admission that Jefferson is the better player. But at what price?
Here's another thought. By league rules, I believe Jefferson can be traded after December 15. I wonder if there's a possibility that might happen here. One reason to collect talent is that it can help you pull off desirable trades. As the season goes on, Jefferson might seem valuable to teams, and picking up another draft pick, some talent, and cap space may seem valuable to us.
As might avoiding that 11th seed.
We'll see what this adds up to.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 8, 2013 10:10:03 AM
I thought about that - regarding trading jefferson.
It's a 2 year deal with 3 year player option so I mean......very tradeable. especially if someone like boozer has a rough start to the season and they want to slim their payroll a bit going into the following season.
But we could have overpaid hickson all the same. the only thing I could see there is them saying........jefferson is older, will mentor and then leave......where hickson might hurt the development of biz/zeller by being just far enough ahead of them to play in front of them and not help them out.
i still say i'd rather give hickson smaller money and throw the difference at another mid level guy. hickson wouldn't be quite as a good as jefferson RIGHT NOW but his ceiling is higher at 24 and would have the potential of being here long term. and a much better fit personnel wise.
the only thing that convinces guys to go to small market teams is winning and money. we didn't have to sign a guy to prove we could. tyrus thomas is walking proof we've never been tight with money. so is emeka okafor who is STILL eating off his bobcats contract. i think guys get turned off by the coaching changes and by the jordan stigma and by the way we've handled our business (pulling QO's late and what not).
I'm excited for summer league. I was impressed by olynyk yesterday. I was NOT big on him going into the draft but he looks like he is going to be the new scola pick and pop guy. 25 points in 26 minutes is impressive even in summer league. Hate to draw the comparison because of the hair and the headband, but their games are VERY similar. i bet olynyk has a scola poster on his wall. still.
carter-williams had 9 turnovers. yikes. drummond looked rough but man I wish we would pound the ball to biyombo this summer like they do. Last summer was way more about kemba....this summer should be about biyombo and mkg.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 8, 2013 10:43:19 AM
I'd like to see them work MKG more in the high post this summer. Similar to what Antoine Walker used to do when he was effective. Posting up high, then using quickness to work his way into the lane, finishing with runners, floaters, and baby hooks. MKG seems to have those same skills, but can also finish harder, and would be more selfless finding open players on his way to the rim. If MKG can draw doubles in the high post, then he could find guys like Biyombo cutting to the rim.
They've already talked about MKG getting more shots that he can hit. This might be what they have in mind.
Plus MKG's lack of shooting might be an advantage to prevent him from drifting outside as Walker would often do.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 8, 2013 11:22:41 AM
I absolutely can blame it all on Jordan and I do and until they win a playoff series I'm gonna hammer on him relentlessly. Yes, Johnson was a very bad owner, but MJ has had complete control for 7 years so the days of blaming Johnson are long since past.
"Restart button"? What good is that? Air Minimum has continuously hit the restart button for years...
Sam Vincent, 82 games, restart.
Larry Brown, 192 games, restart.
Silas & Son, 120 games, restart.
Mike Dunlap, 82 games, restart.
You guys slurped it up and spewed it out every single time those other guys were presented as your new coach -- "we're cooking with gas now"!
Can't even estimate how many times I asked a slurper if he thought Silas & Son was the long term coaching solutions -- "oh yeah man, this is perfect, Daddy coaches another year or two and then turns it over to Sonny and we are off to the races".
There's no doubt Clifford is a much better candidate than Dunlap but unfortunately he's signed up with the franchise that kills coaching careers and he's aligned himself with the gang that can't shoot straight.
20-121. When will a winning season be posted?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 8, 2013 12:37:43 PM
no doubt that jordan gets the blame for the last several years. all i'm saying is, he can't be blamed for 10. 5, sure. but we DID make the playoffs 1 of the 5. that's all i'm saying.
the jefferson signing reeks of jordan meddling in cho's office and jumping the gun on the rebuild but it remains to be seen.
seriously......why the eff has seth curry not been signed already. they seriously want that dude to show them he can shoot the ball? they don't even have to guarantee the deal. how is this worth even thinking about?
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 8, 2013 12:45:23 PM
You guys following Terrance Jones in Summer League? I was prosing a trade of Jeff Taylor and Portland's first rounder they owe us to Asik and Jones... I really think Houston would have jumped on that now after signing Howard. Jones will likely end up starting in Houston along with Howard, Parsons, Lin and Hardin... Jones and Parsons are going to light teams up!
Seth Curry is still recovering from his chin surgery - that is why he hasn't been signed...
Posted by: Dom | Jul 8, 2013 1:06:25 PM
houston isn't giving up asik for nothing. he's a young starter....they would want a starter at the least in return. I think asik is a great player. I would go biyombo and taylor for asik and jones. maybe throwing in one of the picks.
seth is in the gym right now. dude just wasn't ready to be judged on a summer league stage when he's still getting over that injury. seriously.....they don't need to see him 100% to sign him to a minimal guarantee rookie minimum deal.
insane. they're gonna eff around and let him sign with the lakers and go ape all year.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 8, 2013 1:12:29 PM
Here's an interesting question...
...why are details of BOBcat coaching contracts guarded like a state secret?
Celtics came out and said Brad Stevens got a 6-year deal for $22 million. The length and size of the deal show the Celt's are committed to Brad and vice-versa.
What kind of commitment did His Minimumness give Mike Dunlap? What about his commitment to Steve Clifford?
Is Air Min embarrassed by the details of the contracts? (like shockingly low pay)
Who wins the most games/playoff series over next 5 years, Celt's or BOBcats?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 8, 2013 1:35:13 PM
I believe those details did come out, nobody cared.
Pretty sure dunlap got a 2 year deal with a team option for a 3rd and it was like under a million a year or some ish.
I believe clifford got 3 years fully guaranteed and a much higher salary than dunlap's though don't remember the numbers.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 8, 2013 1:57:12 PM
I go with over 80% on Kemba's free throw shooting. Of course it took Tony Parker more then 10 years to finally eclipse 80% at the line, but Kemba should get there much quicker.
Posted by: Spencer | Jul 8, 2013 2:43:12 PM
Love where this team is right now. Pretty good in 4 years as an owner for MJ. I don;t care how committed he was or wasn't previously. It is clearly different since he bought the team. A couple of mistakes, but for the most part good decisions that have put them in a good place right now. Season will be interesting and with the picks they and cap space, next year will be even better.
Posted by: JIMBO | Jul 8, 2013 2:51:10 PM
I'm not aware of Dunlap's contract details ever coming out, at least no $-terms. I care. Can you direct me to that info?
I stand corrected on Clifford's contract, forgot about seeing the details there. Minimum, Yes Co. & Cho must not feel so great about the signing if they are only willing to commit for 2 years. Kind of funny to think about but Doc started coaching the Celt's the same year the BOBcats came into the league -- and here we are on coach #6! Five since 2007 when His Minimumness took over. Three since Cho The Savoir got here!!
Indiana high-school girls shoot over 90% by the thousands...if you're going to play PG in the NBA at 5'10" you have to put in the work to be good at things in your control -- like FT shooting. It's a *free*, throw. And Shorty is throwing them, he needs to learn to stroke them. 5'10" guys don't get many *free* looks, anything less than 90% for him is unacceptable.
21-120 over last two years and JIMBO "loves" where they are! Exactly what MJ's business plan hinges on, suckers...
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 8, 2013 3:17:53 PM
john stockton - career 82.6% shooter.
gary payton - 72.9%
kenny anderson - 79%
mark jackson - 77%
ron harper - 72%
isiah thomas - 75.9%
some of the greatest shooters in the game didn't shoot 90%. it's insanely hard to do. especially for guys who are taking a BEATING to get to the line. that said.....i think 80% is a far more reasonable line.
pistol pete was an 82% free throw shooter.
that's what made nash and what is making durant so impressive.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 8, 2013 4:07:58 PM
Interesting take on the Jefferson signing from Grantland:
"We’ve been gearing up for Tankapalooza 2014, but look carefully around the league and try to spot the True Tankers. Portland has spent to fill out its bench in hopes of backing up a solid starting five. The Pelicans are aiming for that no. 8 slot. The Cavaliers, fresh off lottery night boasts, opened the checkbooks for a 29-year-old backup guard in Jack and explored all sorts of trades before the draft that would have improved them this season. Dallas is piling up veterans to put around poor Dirk Nowitzki. Detroit signed Josh Smith, a huge boost to its rotation. The Wizards are in Playoffs Or Bust mode, Atlanta will be solid (assuming they lock in a point guard), the Bucks are using veteran rotation guys to stay afloat, the Kings are at least trying, and even the Bobcats overpaid for a veteran possession sponge in Al Jefferson."
"That’s a large pile of potential Tankers doing stuff that might help them win basketball games this season, though a few could pivot to Suck Mode (and not Blow Mode) midseason if need be. Only Orlando stands out as a team that could have gained major cap flexibility but has chosen instead to stand pat and go slowly."
"And the Bobcats understand they are dealing with a major perception problem. There is being bad, and there is being a total embarrassment, and the Bobcats over the last two years have been the latter. That is untenable for a team holding a very fragile grip over its local market, likely losing money (before revenue-sharing), and carrying max-level cap space into the foreseeable future."
"The Jefferson contract is bad. There is no way anyone could have watched the NBA over the last few seasons and concluded Jefferson might be worth double Millsap over the potential length of their deals, and about $4 million more than Millsap over a per-year basis. He’s a slow-footed, not intuitive defender against the pick-and-roll in a league in which just about every team runs a pick-and-roll on every possession. Want to be depressed, Charlotte fans? Find video of the Spurs-Jazz series from the 2012 playoffs."
"And using up cap space on Jefferson early removed Charlotte from the list of teams that could have plucked an extra pick or two from Golden State in the Andris Biedrins–Richard Jefferson salary dump. There is always a cost to overspending one’s cap space — a lost opportunity to do something else, whether it’s snagging extra picks as trash ground for another team’s mistake, bidding on an amnestied player, or something else."
"But Jefferson is a very good offensive player, if an overrated one, and the Bobcats over the last two seasons have been just as terrible on offense as on defense. Jefferson shoots 47 percent like clockwork, draws near-automatic double-teams to his residence on the left block, and avoids turnovers at a historically unprecedented rate. He’s not ultra-efficient — he rarely gets to the line — but he’s efficient enough, and he’ll take a ton of possessions away from very bad offensive players dotting the rest of this roster."
"And there’s no long-term cap damage here, especially if Jefferson flees the scene after two seasons, as his deal will permit. Tyrus Thomas is the only other Bobcat on a non-rookie contract going forward, and the Cats have to vaporize his awful deal in order to sign Jefferson. Charlotte will still have max cap room next summer and (as projected) in 2015, and free agents will be more likely to at least consider the Bobcats then if they are a run-of-the-mill mediocrity and not a D-League outfit."
"And Jefferson does enough damage to his team’s defense that he can only lift a club so high. The Bobcats this season will still be bad, perhaps bad enough to snag a top-five pick even while improving their leaguewide standing. Win-win?"
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 8, 2013 4:35:30 PM
i feel like i wrote that. but i know better.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 8, 2013 4:50:02 PM
I don't care what any long since retired players shot -- I care what Kemba can control -- he needs to be at 90% in order to make up for other shortcomings. Did you know that in 1994 Spudd Webb only missed 16 FT's of 242 and was 93.4% from the line?
As for Big Al, in a recent column written Sorenson he made mention of Al's signing possibly being a "PR move" of some sort... Initially I dismissed this as foolish but the more I think about it the more I think he is onto something.
charlottean, I believe your past analysis of this Big Al deal is on the money -- poor timing, nonsensical, departure from "plan", overpriced, etc...
...so what would prompt such a move?
So what would cause such intense fear?
A: A money losing year unlike they have ever had before.
Think about this, how do people react to a team that wins 7 times the whole year -- they cancel season tickets and generally avoid games like the plague. I watched BOOBcat home games where the first 4 rows behind the opposing bench had fewer than 10 people in them. Two rows would be completely empty and the other two would have 3 or 4 people in the ENTIRE ROW - night after night after night after night.
I can see a scenario where Minimum told Yes Co. & Cho "...you get me some damn wins and you get them NOW! I need some fannies on those seats..."
Now while I always disagreed with The Plan, now is not the time to abandon it as the pundits do seem to be suggesting the 2014 draft might be pretty good.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 8, 2013 6:04:07 PM
^^^Can someone explain to me what the deal is with this moron?
Posted by: James R. | Jul 8, 2013 6:49:39 PM
Has something to with his MJ, his wife and DNA test. You can figure the rest out.
Posted by: Steve | Jul 8, 2013 7:51:50 PM
OK. Now the comments make sense. Had to be something like that.
Posted by: James R. | Jul 8, 2013 9:50:40 PM
Truth kinda scares you guys huh? Hey, help a brotha out, send MJ some more money would ya?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 8, 2013 10:11:28 PM
anybody heard anything about Henderson? most blogs aren't saying anything
Posted by: JC | Jul 9, 2013 2:25:15 AM
Signing Jefferson was mainly a way to improve the bobcats reputation and to sell more tickets. He is terrible on defense so he will not improve their win total while keeping the Bobcats in the Wiggins lottery. All we need is wiggins and nobody will remember how bad we were lil nobody remembers how bad the thunder were 5 years ago
Posted by: Nick Ryder | Jul 9, 2013 3:17:22 AM
13 mil for Big Al. Amnestying Thomas at 9 mil. Picking up Gordon's contract for an extra pick. Spending to switch to the Hornets. Hiring a new coaching staff. Oh sure.money looks to be a real concern. He could have pulled back on a number of these decisions if money was an issue.
Someone said NASTAR was fired by the team. Reading the comments there was certainly something that happened. I think the wife thing makes more sense. Probably would have gotten over being fired.
Posted by: Steve O, | Jul 9, 2013 6:17:28 AM
Jefferson signing was big. 17 and 9. They addressed 2 huge needs. Lakers just signed Kaman. Not exactly reloading after missing out on Howard. Playing all year last season without a low post scorers had to be tough. How good can Kemba and Henderson be with someone you have to guard down low? We can finally find out. I think that part of the signing is being underestimated.
Posted by: Michael Hauth | Jul 9, 2013 6:29:13 AM
Now that was some funny Nastar stuff. Sad thing is they might both be true. What is ironic is that these people have about as much insight into his whatever kind of life Nastar leads as Nastar does into the Bobcats. Unless of course he did get fired from there. Then any insight would still depend on when that happened.
Posted by: JIMBO | Jul 9, 2013 8:51:56 AM
Amnestying Tyrus doesn't cost any money, they were gonna pay him anyway. Ben Gordon deal over a year ago so no consideration now (and paying $15 million for a draft pick prob a bad idea). Name change is a non-event monetarily...
...so, back to why sign Big Al now? Fear?
OK, I admit it, I used to work for the BOBcats. I was an insider and my contacts at the Cable Box and around the league remain intact, so it goes without saying my information is better than yours and always will be. Shut up and learn something idiots.
What is this wife related stuff you are speaking of? Are you saying the MJ continues to screw around behind the back of his wife? By screwing around with married women? High character guy that MJ huh?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 9, 2013 10:48:41 AM
now you're contradicting yourself wayyyy too much. amnesty to thomas and signing jefferson = spending more money than just keeping thomas.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2013 10:51:13 AM
Anyone who says that is unacceptable for Kemba Walker to shoot under 90%FT is a complete moron and has no clue about the NBA. Last season there were only three (3) guys in the entire league that made over 90%FT, the best being Durant at 90.5%FT, followed by Curry and Reddick at 90%FT both.
Kemba is currently shooting almost 80%FT (79.9%) and ranked 57th in the entire league. There are aprox. 500 players that play in the NBA every year, that means Kemba is a better FT shooter than 80%-85% of the rest of the league...let me explain that agaian, 80%-85% of the players in the NBA shoot worst than Kemba from the FT line.
In addition to that, Kemba averaged under 5 FT per game last season, mainly because the defense would concentrate on him and Hendo (who by the way is 36th in the league at 82.4%FT). Now that defense will have to adjust and defend Jefferson and hopefully Zeller, that should open a whole new window of opportunities for Kemba, Henderson and even MKG. If Kemba continues to shoot 80% or more from the line, he is very good. If he happens to improve to 85% (which he can do easily) he will be formidable.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 9, 2013 10:59:52 AM
charlottean, you are right, amnestying Tyrus will cost some money -- my bad, don't know what I was thinking there. Depending on what % of the cap the BOB's decide to spend at will determine the true incremental cost.
But amnestying Tyrus is unrelated to signing Big Al, BOB's had plenty of cap space to do both if desired.
RobC, Shorty ranked 21st among the top-30 PG's in FT shooting last year (including centers and such doesn't fly). You cite "better than 85% of players", he's gonna need to get to 86% for that to be true -- let's see if he can pull it off. To be elite, he's gonna have to get up to 88-89%...you guys sure make him out to be elite, prove it Shorty.
Stephen Curry shot 90%...why can't Kemba, not as good?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 9, 2013 11:46:27 AM
^^^Oh my. You were wrong again. Do you even know how amnesty works? Probably not since you said there was no way the team would ever amnesty Thomas. MJ was too cheap. Wrong again bozo.
At least we know where the grudge comes from. So were you terminated? Hard to beleive you were not based on all of these ridiculous comments. Not exactly taking the hiugh road. Still promoting Ben Wallace's ball handling skills? I wonder if the team will ever change to the Hornets? What a complete jackass you are.
Posted by: Season Ticket Holder 2 | Jul 9, 2013 11:54:45 AM
You are correct, I did not think they'd amnesty Tyrus, I admitted that...make you feel better? Frankly, I don't understand why they did it this year after not doing it last year -- can you explain? MJ is cheap, the pressure just got to him.
Do you really believe I worked for the BOBcats? If so you are dumber than I thought.
You're a sensitive one aren't ya?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 9, 2013 12:16:18 PM
Upon reflection, 21st out of 30 is about right -- and the competition only gets stiffer every year. When will we get a top 15 player at any position?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 9, 2013 1:53:43 PM
read on a blog today that if Rondo was to be traded Bobcats, and Rockets were lead candidates......
Posted by: JC | Jul 9, 2013 1:59:47 PM
they could not sign al jefferson to the deal they gave him without amnesty to thomas AND withdrawing henderson's QO. any cap space they have right now is mostly taken up by henderson's cap hold and would not exist at all without amnesty to thomas.
i think henderson is quite possibly a top 15 SG in the league. If not, he's just outside that. he's def not top 10, but he's def not below 20 either.
MKG will soon be a top 10 SF in the league. Zeller and Walker will both probably crack the top 15 and Biz is quite capable of doing so.
if we keep those guys when they hit their primes, i would say we might have 5 guys in the top 15 of their positions. at least 3 of them. but i would bet against the bobcats being smart enough to keep them when they're good.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2013 2:12:58 PM
Not sure how you being consistenly wrong makes me senstive. Good to know you are just goofing with most of your comments. Makes more sense. No one could believe most of that garbage. Thanks Feel free to troll away in that event...
Posted by: Season Ticket Holder 2 | Jul 9, 2013 2:14:45 PM
^^^You are not seriously trying to converse with someone who thinks 80% free throw shooting in your second year in the league is an issue. The guy obviously makes things up just bust people's chops.
Posted by: Mac | Jul 9, 2013 2:29:31 PM
Crankie Frankie is a dumazz noob! Move back to Mayberry and watch the local high "skool."
Posted by: Hugo Panther | Jul 9, 2013 2:43:28 PM
Mac, what's your problem?
20 college girls shot 90% or higher last year, lead by Jaqui Kalin from N. Iowa who only missed 8 in 177 attempts! 95.5%!!
You telling me Shorty can't keep up with college girls?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 9, 2013 3:08:23 PM
college girls aren't getting banged around by 6-10 290 pound bigs prior to shooting those free throws.
not to mention, physics says a 5 foot tall human has a more probable trajectory than a 6 foot tall human let alone a 7 foot tall human.
that's where the rick barry underhand motion comes from. also why what durant is doing as a near 7 footer is so insane and pretty much unprecedented.
i'm all about dudes improving their free throw shooting. but I think there's far more culpable guys than kemba in that department. lebron shoots like 73% or some ish.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2013 3:35:11 PM
forgot to note earlier that........i realize we won't be making any minimum type signings (like of a seth curry) until AFTER we hit the cap or go over. making those signings now only limit what we can or can't do in trades or signings or amnesty wire pick ups, etc.
that all said.........WHY ARE WE EVEN TALKING TO MONTA ELLIS. i don't care if its supposed to be giving us leverage with henderson......THAT DUDE HAS NO BUSINESS HERE. spread some trade rumors about aaron aflalo or something. DO NOT EVEN SCARE ME TALKING ABOUT PAIRING ELLIS AND WALKER.
effing insane. more insane if they AREN'T just doing it for leverage.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2013 4:15:00 PM
I know that guy this clowning. 2 players in the entire league shot 90% last year. To bust on Kemba is just lame. I would rather see his assist total go up this year. With Big Al on board it probably will.
Posted by: Mac | Jul 9, 2013 4:16:01 PM
charlottean, Jaime Printy from Iowa shot 92.5% while making 135 of 146...she's 5'11', an inch taller than Kemba ;) Kalin is 5'8" so can't chalk it up to height.
I am LAUGHING at your screed above! I'm telling you, Minimum, Yes Co & Cho are buffoons and they will disappoint you -- just a matter of when!!
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 9, 2013 4:20:14 PM
From ESPN on Ron Artest:
Morales said World Peace would be "upset" if the Lakers amnesty him, and that he would even consider retirement if any team with room to fit him under the salary cap claimed him off waivers. Morales said. "If one of these small-market teams picks him up, he won't be happy with that. He doesn't want to play there."
When The Plan was rolled out Air Min said he would use his gravitas to attract big time guys...
...that sort of commentary seems to indicate otherwise.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 9, 2013 4:36:39 PM
I saw the rumors about the Monta Ellis signing and I just hope that is "Media BS". The last thing we need is Monta Ellis.
However, I am intrigued by the Rajon Rondo rumors. Apparently Bobcats and Rockets are the front runners to complete a trade for Rajon Rondo. The kid is an All-Star and a pass first PG who know how to make others better. He is 27 with only 7 seasons under his belt, meaning he has anywhere between 5-8 more seasons to play at a high level. But I wonder if that means Kemba Walker will be gone, the Bobcats will most likely need to include the expiring contract of Ben Gordon to make it work (even if Kemba is in the deal). I'm not completly sure I like this move...I think Kemba can be as good as Rondo in 2 years. Rondo is more a by-product of Garnett/Pierce/Allen, thatn his pure talent.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 9, 2013 4:47:50 PM
Why would anyone care if Artest would not come to Charlotte? Would rather have him that Al Jefferson?
Puruing Ellis and Rondo? This team means business. Rather have Rondo, but either makes them an automatic playoff team.
Posted by: David | Jul 9, 2013 5:29:11 PM
Cool to see Kemba here working out. Hopefully he spent some time with Mark Price. Love this young squad!
Posted by: Mac | Jul 9, 2013 5:31:15 PM
david........ellis makes us an automatic 8-9 seed and never anything more. he's a small, inefficient go-to guy that if paired with a good big (dirk/horford/cousins) could be a lot better than if he was on a team like ours. henderson gives us the same value per dollar.
rondo would be different but there's NO EFFING WAY boston is giving that dude away. i bet they'd ask kemba, mkg, biz and our expirings for rondo, wallace, humphries. no thanks.
any package not involving mkg or zeller for rondo would be a coup.
artest vs. jefferson? i'm going artest every day of the week. especially when you're talking vet minimum vs. 13.5 a year. artest has no reason to play for anything other than a championship this year. and on his own terms, he's getting paid either way and nobody is giving him MORE money, just splitting the bill with the lakers. doesn't speak to anything other than how the amnesty process works and the fact that we aren't contenders or his hometown team.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2013 5:43:10 PM
Well. An eigth seed would be in the playoffs.
You can pay Artest zero and Jefferson would be better. At 33 he does not address any of your real needs unless you are looking to tank this year.
Posted by: David | Jul 9, 2013 6:03:59 PM
Anyone that has not really seen Big Al play is on for a treat. Exactly 2 players have averaged 17 and 9 the last six yeas and Al is one of them. The Bobcats have one of the most consistent low post scorers in the game. That will have a positive domino effect on the rest of their key players. It is a game changer. People will be shocked how much.
Posted by: Skip | Jul 9, 2013 6:38:11 PM
I only advocate impatience when it means transforming your team into an immediate contender. Like when the Celts turned their roster over (and their picks) to unite Ray Allen and Garnett with Pierce. There is nothing like that here. Even if we gave away nothing but picks, there is no guarantee Rondo would lead us into contention, especially coming off of a serious injury.
Hold the line. I want to see how these young guys look when paired with a low post player like Jefferson. Give it at least half of season. Forget about Ellis. If you lose Henderson somehow, start Taylor at SG with Gordon off the bench and pick up your wing in the 2014 draft. Then let the good times rolls with the Hornets.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 9, 2013 7:44:25 PM
This nashole guy has no credibility. Lets recap, shall we?
There is no way Jordan amnesty t Thomas. He is too cheap. Wrong
Jordan will not pay to change the teams name. He is too cheap. Wrong
Al Jefferson will never come here. Why would he? Wrong.
MJ is too cheap to pay for al Jefferson. Wrong
Now even when you have a legit point no one should ever listen to you because you have an agenda. Please feel free to add on to the things nashole has been wrong about.
Posted by: Anon | Jul 9, 2013 8:20:28 PM
if making the playoffs were the goal then milwaukee would have had a parade recently.
we want to make the playoffs EVERY YEAR for a long time and contend for titles. that's exactly what happens when you build a team through the draft like indiana/okc/memphis/chicago/etc.
you pair ellis with jefferson and we are right back to the wallace/jackson/felton type lineup. good enough to win 40-45 games at their peak, never good enough to win 50. no room for growth. and no cap room to leverage into improvement.
which scenario is better
2013-14: win 41 games 2014-15: win 41 games 2015-16: win 41 games - rebuild
13-14: win 25 games 14-15: win 38 games 15-16: win 48 games - resign your core with an average age of 26 coming off a 2nd round playoff appearance.
because that's exactly what we're talking about and not in hypothetical terms at all. history has repeated these steps over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and yet every single year there's somebody dumb enough to go blow the money on B level players (like ellis and jefferson) to placate the idiotic fans and or DA (not district attorney) owner.
and joe dumars gets a pass on that because somehow he won a championship with the most random group of mixed parts that worked together perfectly. nobody else has managed to do that. in the past 30 years.....that's the outlier and the rest of them were built through the draft where at some point, they were horrible and drafting high. magic, kareem, shaq, jordan, bird, dirk, duncan, d-wade, lebron, garnett, zeke, walton, unseld, wilt, barry, havlicek, etc. etc.
all top 10 picks. most top 5. there aren't ANY championships built on players drafted in the teens. 0.
even that outlier detroit team had top 5 picks in wallace and billups, they just weren't drafted there.
if history says you win championships by drafting high, then i think you want to draft high until you get the guy that doesn't let you draft high anymore. and then you build around THAT guy. but you don't go abandoning that proven plan after 3 drafts simply out of impatience.
the only way they're doing it right by signing jefferson is if we've already got our GUY on the roster (have to be walker/mkg/zeller) or if by some stroke of insane luck we win a top 3 pick after winning 35 games this year. either way, jefferson isn't the reason anybody gets anywhere that matters.
there's no jefferson jersey retirement scheduled for 10 years from now. he should have macguyvered his way back to boston.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2013 10:01:44 PM
Hey wait a minute, why do we need/want Rondo, thought Shorty was just as good? Is Shorty not a championship calibre PG?
Tyrus -- as stated 3 times before, I was wrong.
Name Change -- advocated for it, said MJ was dumber than thought if he didn't, never ever said he wouldn't.
Jefferson -- never commented on him one way or other prior to announcement of deal.
Anon, you're an idiot who can't think for himself, exactly the type of slurper MJ looks for to pad his pocket. Here's a littel exercise, name 2 things you take issue with in terms of BOBcat front office decision making? Bet you can't...
As for Artest, I wasn't suggesting we should try to get him to CLT, just pointing out the article illustrates the mindset of the elite players in terms of coming to a market like CLT. MJ said he could lure the elites, but he can't...
...and hate to break it to you, Big Al ain't elite.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 9, 2013 10:53:10 PM
the rondo thing is LEGIT RUMOR..I really believe Bobcats would have to give up some players for him,,but knowing Danny Ainge,,it would probably mean draft picks are going to Boston,,maybe Walker or Henderson..remember last year Henderson to C's was talked about..Walker would be a killer backup to Rondo maybe could play Walker as a 2 (ala IVERSON)/////
Posted by: JC | Jul 10, 2013 1:30:35 AM
hey bloggers HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT CHARLOTEAN AND NASTAR ARE THE SAME PERSON,,,S#IT they been on here for years...
Posted by: JC | Jul 10, 2013 1:38:54 AM
^^^based on what I have read, not the same person. NASTAR simply criticizes every move and every player. Just look above. Trying to make a case why great players like Artest won't come here, when a better one like Jefferson just did. He really is little more than an Internet troll attempting to flame everything Bobcats. Even predictably tries to turn the positive of pursuing an elite point gaurd into a negative.
Charlottean takes a much more pragmatic approach. He has strong opinions, but clearly is a fan and hopes for the team be successful even if he disagrees with a move. Also offer legitimate suggestions on how to improve the team.
Safe to surmise they are completely different people.
Posted by: Michael Hauth | Jul 10, 2013 6:45:52 AM
JC. That was a massive insult to Charlottean. Yes he may be a bit verbose, but the other guy is a troll. A creative and relentless troll. But a troll none the less.
Posted by: Skip | Jul 10, 2013 8:17:36 AM
i would be offended, except on the internet, near anything is possible.
I'm not an MJ hater, just a rod higgins hater. Cho is hit or miss thus far, but i'll take what I can get as anything is better than higgins. but MJ? we wouldn't still have a team without him being the owner. bobcats would be in st. louis or seattle for sure.
nastar hasn't been around THAT long.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 10, 2013 9:52:23 AM
and i really don't think boston would give up rondo unless we gave up the house for him.
i could see walker/henderson/biz for rondo or walker/henderson/mkg or walker/henderson/and picks
but I still doubt ainge would do it and I also don't know if it would be worth it. would rondo really want to play here? and giving up that much for him coming off acl? That said, rondo is an absolute player and I would be thrilled to watch him play 82+ times a year. definitely a guy you can build a franchise around. if we could do the portland and or detroit pick plus walker and henderson for rondo........that would be great. except would he sign to stay here? probably not.
i just don't see boston doing it. he's 27 and has one of the best contracts in the league for this year and next.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 10, 2013 10:14:24 AM
Not sure how it fits into rebuilding, but this team will be the most interesting one since the playoff year. Looking forward to seeing Zeller play. I like the fact that Biz, Zeller and McRoberts can all run the floor. They can put a very athletic team out there. Rotations will be interesting and probably more strategic than what Dunlap would roll out. Alot more to look for and potentially enjoy.
With some guys coming off the payroll next year and still having all the picks, adding pieces will not be that difficult so I still think they can build a solid team
Posted by: Chris | Jul 10, 2013 12:04:55 PM
I never understood all the griping about dunlap's rotations. I thought he managed the minutes very well with the roster he was given.
Most of the complaints centered around him playing 3 guard lineups in the 4th quarter, but given context, that was the only way we were going to win ball games and he knew he had to win SOME OF them.
walker, sessions, gordon, and henderson were the only consistent scorers we had. playing 3 of them at a time created defensive problems both ways. it was better he tried that than tried nothing.
absolutely great coach, would have had great success if he had been afforded a chance. the comparisons to guys like sam vincent (who was an idiot) are wayyyyyy off base.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 10, 2013 12:43:49 PM
I thought his rotations were inconsistent for an NBA coach. Guys would go from 20 minutes to zero. Disappear for games and then reappear. Just doesn't traditionaly work well with NBA players. I do agree the roster presented challenges, but he seemed to create some of his own. Clifford has much much more to work with already and quite a bit more NBA experience. Should lead to more consistent performance.
Posted by: Chris | Jul 10, 2013 2:42:39 PM
the only people that disappeared over the course of the season were gordon, thomas, and haywood. and with reason.
unless you're talking about jeff taylor, but his role was as consistent as his play AFTER henderson got back from the first few games.
mullens got consistent minutes until he proved he didn't deserve it and mcroberts took his spot. if that was the wrong move, then mcroberts shouldn't have been retained and mullens should have been.
walker, henderson, biz and mkg all played consistent minutes and those were the guys that mattered. sessions did too. and his rotations were almost IDENTICAL to every other nba coaches. first guy off the bench around the 6 minute mark, all starters off the floor by the end of the 1st, all starters making there way back by around the 6 minute mark of the 2nd. repeat in the 3rd and 4th but go with the hot hand and the lineups that worked in the 4th.
he got inconsistent play. his substitutions were fine. larry brown had some head scratching substitutions and inconsistent roles during his time that royally screwed up augustin, morrison, nazr mohammed, etc.'s time here. like flip murray getting minutes over augustin and henderson?!
randomly starting sean may and criticizing how out of shape he was?!
randomly starting alexis ajinca to prove some sort of point but not actually committing to the kid's development?!
brown would bring morrison off the bench COLD for a 1.6 second end of half possession. not even remotely a good use of morrison, effed with his stats (which brown i'm sure intended), ignoring the fact that morrison is not j.j. reddick or matt carroll or steve novak and then he would put dude right back on the bench for the rest of the game.
absolute insanity took place under vincent and brown, normalcy returned with silas and dunlap committed to the rebuild and all of a sudden his rotations were a problem?
I feel like I watch a different sport than you guys. Is there a Charlotte bobcats wheel chair team that dunlap coached also? Must have done a horrible job. I don't get that channel.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 10, 2013 3:14:05 PM
Michael, Michael...don't let your emotions cloud your judgement.
Ron Artest started every game for an NBA Championship team, he's been an All-Star, been All-NBA, been All-Defense, Defensive P-O-Y, NBA Citizen of Year, etc...
I'm inclined to like Big Al but he's never accomplished anything of note in this league. He did make All-Rookie 2nd team (as did Artest) but since then, nothing. NOTHING!
They play different positions and offer different skill sets but if you think Big Al is "better", you're kidding yourself.
I'm not painting the pursuit of Rondo as a "negative", what I'm interested in illustrating is that no player on this team is sacred, completely opposite of what the slurpers believe (they think Shorty is best PG in the league, LOL).
BOBcat fans deserve better than what His Minimumness has provided, much better -- but Air Min has so many slurpers in the fold that....
Skip, thank you for the compliment, best to you and yours ;)
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 10, 2013 4:22:56 PM
I am sure there are some people that like Kemba. I personally enjoy watching him play. However I have never seen anyone say he was "as good as Rondo" or call him a "championship calibre" point gaurd. That is a nice step for you to go from embellishment to straight up liar. Congratulations.
...at least regarding Ron Artest that is simply your opinion. Would not think many would share it at this point in their careers, but who knows.
Posted by: Michael | Jul 10, 2013 5:14:09 PM
Michael, Michael...you must be new to the scene...the line of slurpers that think Kemba is as good as Chris Paul or Rondo or take your pick is almost endless.
As for Artest, that's not my opinion at all, but rather simple facts. Just look at their respective resumes...just the facts ma'am, just the facts.
BTW, if the Lakers amnesty Artest he will likely be able to be had for the veteran's minimum of $1.7 million for the acquiring team -- if you don't think he'd be a HUGE addition (toughness, rebounding, toughness, defense, toughness, etc...) to this team, you're kidding yourself. You seem to do that a lot...
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 10, 2013 6:04:03 PM
artest is NO QUESTION better than jefferson. not even debatable. no reason he and the bobcats would be a good match though. unless he wants to take the year off to mentor MKG which would be 1.7 million well spent.
i've never heard ANYBODY say walker was a top 5 point guard in the league. I don't think I've even heard top 10. but realistically......he's starter caliber and still developing. hard to hate on THAT guy. i wasn't a fan, but he got a lot better last year. I expect he continues to improve along with the team.
i really don't know where you get this "slurper" ish from. there aren't a lot of people that are fans of the bobcats at all, let alone fans who obliviously think they've done a great job with management over the years. kinda delusional there.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 10, 2013 7:27:32 PM
Ron Artest is better than Al Jefferson? At what, compiling misdemeanors? Debatable in his prime, but at 33 everything is trending down. If you are talking for the money. Sure, because he won't get much. Another example of his value now. Would love the Artest from 04-05.
Posted by: Michael Hauth | Jul 10, 2013 9:40:22 PM
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