July 11, 2013
Source: Charlotte Bobcats prefer retaining Gerald Henderson, but would explore trade options
While the Charlotte Bobcats still hope to re-sign restricted free agent Gerald Henderson, the team is prepared to consider other options, such as a sign-and-trade, an informed source said Thursday morning.
Bobcats management and Henderson’s representatives met by telephone Wednesday to discuss what Henderson wants and what the team might be prepared to pay him in a new deal.
Yahoo Sports reported overnight that the two sides appear to be at an impasse, pushing the team toward sign-and-trade options to get something for Henderson.
The source, speaking to the Observer on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the subject, said the Bobcats’ first preference is still to keep Henderson, but that other options should at least be explored.
Henderson, with the longest tenure on the Bobcats’ roster at four seasons, had a strong finish last spring. He scored in double figures in each of the Bobcats’ last 24 games, including 10 games of 20 or more points.
Lucrative deals signed by Toronto’s DeMar DeRozan ($9.5 million average) and new New Orleans Pelican Tyreke Evans (a reported $8 million-plus per season) have seemingly raised the asking price for young free-agent guards.
Henderson said at the conclusion of last season he’d like to re-sign with the Bobcats, in part because he’d prefer to be part of the solution after two seasons when the team went 28-120.
If the Bobcats delve deeply into sign-and-trade options, it could potentially rekindle their interest in Monta Ellis, an unrestricted free agent who last played for the Milwaukee Bucks. Bobcats president of basketball operations Rod Higgins was in the Golden State Warriors’ front office when that team drafted Ellis in 2005, out of high school in Mississippi.
Ellis reportedly has parted with long-time agent Jeff Fried, after being disappointed by the market interest in his free-agency this summer. Ellis averaged 19.2 points and six assists last season with the Bucks, following a March 2012 trade from the Warriors.
Ellis is 6-3 and 175 pounds, so if he became a Bobcat, the team would have a particularly small backcourt. The Bobcats have featured Kemba Walker, a 6-foot point guard with a scorer’s mentality, as its emerging star.
Posted by Observer Sports on July 11, 2013 at 06:49 AM | Permalink
I personally would like to keep Hendo but the thought of Monta coming to Charlotte is intriguing. New nickname for our backcourt: Munchkin Land.
Posted by: apauldds | Jul 11, 2013 7:39:56 AM
Who cares if our backcourt is a little undersized as long as they can shoot. I think Ellis is a better shooter than Henderson and would be an inprovement.
Posted by: Heywood | Jul 11, 2013 8:05:03 AM
Henderson is garbage anyway so getting rid of him would only help the Bobcats. They are making more out of him then he truly is. Charlotte should also get rid of Diop, Gordon, McRoberts, and Taylor and either trade them or bring in some better veterans.
Posted by: Tarheels72 | Jul 11, 2013 8:13:08 AM
Henderson is not garbage, but he is fortunate he landed on a team that gave him time to develop, as he has. He's not an 8 million dollar player either. Tyreke definitely got over-paid.
I could see 4 years @ 20 million, maybe with a player option for the last year.
Posted by: usc88 | Jul 11, 2013 8:24:30 AM
Personally, I would like to let Hendo leave. These Bobcat players continue to over-value their worth. Hendo is a backup player on almost all the other NBA teams. Sure, DJ Augustin thought he was all that and a bag of chips. So did Raymond Felton. So did Stephen Jackson, and Gerald Wallace, and Jason Richardson...I can go on and on.
Hendo is a backup Shooting Guard and the Charlotte team WILL upgrade, either with Monta Ellis or in the 2014 NBA draft. Either way, Gerald Henderson can see the writing on the wall. Once the Charlotte team gets a real Starting Shooting Guard, this team will start to see the win total increase.
Posted by: No more seatcushions? | Jul 11, 2013 8:26:20 AM
So Henderson is garbage according to Tarheels72. Shocking. Turn off your baby blue blinders and realize that Henderson is better option than Ellis on two fronts: 1) He'll be a much better option financially at about $8M a year versus the $12-13M that Monta Ellis is wanting (Sorry, Ellis is NOT worth that). And 2) Henderson continues to ascend. He's gotten better each year and has a higher ceiling. I'd rather over pay by a couple million for someone that has given you everything he has for 4+ yrs already versus someone that's looking to cash in by being WAY overpaid at $12M.
Posted by: PantherDave | Jul 11, 2013 8:39:14 AM
Hendo's not worth $8 mil... it's also telling that no team has offered him that (or even $6-7 mil), which would've forced the Bobcats to match or let him walk.
Stay away from Ellis. NOT worth the headache.
Next year's draft is swing man rich (Wiggins, Parker, Smart, etc.) Be patient.
Posted by: 704observer | Jul 11, 2013 8:47:00 AM
Panther Dave- I think if Hendo was willing to sign for 8M (or something close the deal would be done). I think $7m/ is what he deserves based on the contracts handed out to similar SG's this offseason.
For all we know Hendo is asking for the same amount as Monta... Personally I'd be okay if we signed and traded Hendo for a future 1st round pick. Then we would start Taylor/Gordon (who are clearly inferior to Hendo) but, that would increase our ability to keep our 1st round pick (only top 10 protected) and increase our chances of landing Wiggins or another star in next year draft and have enough cap space next offseason to sign a star SG if we don't get who we want in the draft.
Posted by: Season Ticket Holder | Jul 11, 2013 8:52:34 AM
Would hate to see Hendo go. He has improved every season since he's been here. On the other hand it's good to see the front office doing their due diligence. If there is a good sign and trade option I say go for it.
Posted by: nucat | Jul 11, 2013 9:06:19 AM
"Season Ticket Holder" stop posting well thought out responses. You obviously don't belong here.
Posted by: Boombot | Jul 11, 2013 9:26:11 AM
Henderson thinks his value is worth more than it is. It's easy to look good and show "improvement" on THE WORST TEAM IN THE NBA IN THE PAST TWO YEARS! Any other team, Hendereson would be coming off the bench.
Ellis is a an upgrade. Could you imagine that lineup; Kemba, Ellis, MKG, Zells & Big Al ?!? I would become a season ticket holder to see that team!
Posted by: D.W.G. | Jul 11, 2013 9:31:39 AM
Let him go.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 9:48:04 AM
Tarheels72 wanted to dump McRoberts too. Probably pines for Sean May. (Yes, I'm a Duke guy.) Henderson is worth re-signing although I don't know if he is quite worth $8M a year. If he can develop a reliable 3-point shot, then yes.
Posted by: BP | Jul 11, 2013 9:52:58 AM
i do not want to see them bring in monta ellis. he'd make the rest of our not very great team worse. the dude shoots a ton of shots and doesn't make very many of them.
regardless what they do with hendo, they need to stay away from ellis.
Posted by: joe | Jul 11, 2013 10:01:01 AM
Monta is a risky sign and although he can flat out score it takes a ton of shots to get him there. Henderson may be the better option but not at 8 per. No way. With Ellis - how much different is he than Ben Gordan? He's a black hole and shoots way to much for his percentage. I like the idea of getting a pick later but doubt we have takers. The UNC Duke thing is stupid, Henderson just doesn't excite me as a player no matter where he played.
Posted by: Brian | Jul 11, 2013 10:17:18 AM
he's not worth 40 million but market value says he's worth 45. you give guys like derozan big money and situations like these get effed up.
if we let ANOTHER lottery pick go, its going to be insanely hard to stomach.
monta ellis and kemba walker do not equate to a good pairing. we saw the equivalent in milwaukee last year. it's just dumb.
our backcourt was not the problem last year. statistically, kemba + hendo was top 5 backcourt duo and at one stretch late, lead the league in backcourt scoring. the problem was front court.
henderson is worth every penny of 5 years 35 million. if that doesn't get it done, let him go sign an offer sheet OR play for the QO. if he plays for the QO, that gives you another 3 or 4 million to tack on next summer to out pay other teams. still might leave, but bringing in ellis would be a huge mistake. he's not a championship caliber player so why bother. walker is essentially becoming ellis on his own.
flashy names always work with this fan base. like moths flying into lights.
they need to get the deal done with hendo before atlanta or philly gives him a deal we don't want to match.
best sign and trade scenario I can imagine would be for evan turner. i could see him working well with kemba and mkg. but hendo fits even better.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 10:23:56 AM
Henderson's name hasn't come up in any free agency rumors this summer. I don't think he's on the radar of any other team. I believe the Bobcats stand pat and Henderson ends up taking the QO this season.
Posted by: Gate City | Jul 11, 2013 10:27:46 AM
Evan Turner. I like it. Tall SG who gets you assists and nice shooting percentages.
I would make that sign and trade.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 10:37:19 AM
I'm a tarheel fan and I think we should keep Henderson. The games I've watch, he played hard. Great defense, challenge shots at the rim, and dive on the floor for loose balls. He gave us everything he had. Keep Henderson.
Posted by: MIke | Jul 11, 2013 10:41:15 AM
Gate City nailed it!
"Henderson's name hasn't come up in any free agency rumors this summer. I don't think he's on the radar of any other team..."
Anyone can look like he improved...when you are on the WORST NBA team in the history of the sport. Those of you who believe Hendo has yet to "reach his ceiling" or is going to improve remarkably are kidding yourselves. This Charlotte team needs a genuine NBA All-Star Shooting Guard, and you are not going to get that out of one Gerald Henderson. Thanks for the comic relief.
Monta Ellis is an upgrade over Gerald Henderson, and everyone knows it. Michael has the money, the cap room, and he owes it to the fans that have supported this diabolically bad Charlotte NBA team. Spend the money and do the deal. Bye, Bye Hendo if you don't like it. Either way, Henderson comes off the bench in 2014-2015.
Posted by: No more seatcushions? | Jul 11, 2013 10:48:25 AM
Ellis is a cancer in the locker room, remember his comments about Curry when he first signed. The Warriors made the right choice even before they knew what Curry would be as a pro by letting Ellis go. Henderson is solid SG and can also play SF as well. He is probably worth 7M per year but I like the idea of a sign and trade for somebody in the Evan Turner mold. We need to continue to be patient and think longer term.
Posted by: TrueBBallFan | Jul 11, 2013 10:49:17 AM
Anybody who says that Henderson's numbers are attributed ONLY to the fact that he played for a bad team is a complete idiot. Both Tyreke Evans and Demar Derozan played on equally bad teams, posted similar numbers and got huge offers (North of $9M/Year).
Henderson is actually a pretty solid player who has not receive any attention because EVERY TEAM in the NBA know the Bobcats will match any reasonable offer.
Henderson Market Value and what he deserves is anything between $7-$8M Per Year. Yes it might be a little high at first glance, but when you compare hin to other players, that is what he is worth.
OJ Mayo: a better scorer, but a huge liability on defense and a ball hog with no leadership. (3Years/$24M = $8M/Year)
Kevin Martin: May be a better shooter, but is not a better scorer and he doesn't even know the word defense and is 30 years old. (4Years/$28M = $7M/Year)
JJ Reddick: Is 29 years old, again way better shooter, not necesarily a better scorer and not a better defender. He was the perfect fit with a Championship contender, the only reason why he accepted that offer. (4Years/$27M = Aprox. $7M/Year)
JR Smith: is a pain in the but and similar to JJ Reddick accepted a smaller deal to be with a contender. Volume shooter, inneficient and a locker room cancer. (4 Years/$25M = Aprox. $6M/Year)
Tyreke Evans: Younger tan Hendo, more upside and more versatile, better scorer and facilitator, but not a better defender. Posted similar numbers to Hendo in a similar situation. (4 Years/$40+M = $10+M/Year)
And if we add Demar Derozan and Aaron Affalo
into the equation is VERY EASY to see why a pretty efficent guy who averages 15-4-3, is a solid defender, a great guy in the locker room, and a high character leader at the age of 25 is worth between $7-$8M in the current NBA.
I think a 3 Year deal worth $23M with a Player Option in the 3rd Year is a pretty solid deal for Henderson and the Bobcats/Hornets.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 11, 2013 10:53:20 AM
No way we keep Hendo. He is not and never will be a winner. He plays at half speed every game. For a city who grilled the best football player to ever suit up in a Panthers Jersey (Peppers) it sure turns a blind eye to Hendo.
Monta is a huge upgrade from Hendo, but for the money he wants I am not sure that is a good way to go either. Keep looking guys!
Posted by: Section 103 Season Ticket Holder | Jul 11, 2013 10:54:07 AM
I'm over Henderson. He's a midrange shooter on a team filled with midrange guys. Zeller can give you midrange offense off the pick and pop. Kemba can give you midrange offense off the step back jumper. MKG is only effective midrange in at this point. Even Jefferson will score half his point from midrange.
I like Henderson. Great guy on the right team. But how does he help us accomplish spacing? We need a 3&D guy at the two. Someone like Danny Green would be perfect, and you can always find a guy like that later in the first round where we have two extra picks. Henderson is fine on a one year or a sign and trade.
But I don't see him as a key part of the Hornets.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 10:59:16 AM
Monta Ellis is NOT an upgrade on Henderson...not even at $7M per year. The guy can score, but he needs to shoot 50 FG attempts to score 20PPG. He is the 6th worst and most inneficient scorer in the entire league. Every single shooting percentage of Ellis is worst than Henderson. He is extremely undersized for his position and doesn't play any defense whatsoever. Ellis numbers Per minute are horrible when compared to Henderson, so is his plus/minus.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 11, 2013 11:15:46 AM
"Anybody who says that Henderson's numbers are attributed ONLY to the fact that he played for a bad team is a complete idiot. Both Tyreke Evans and Demar Derozan played on equally bad teams, posted similar numbers and got huge offers."
Yeah well anyone who thinks someone should get paid based on other teams' brain farts with overpaying equally mediocre talent is an idiot too.
Henderson is and most likely always will be a very average player, just like the laundry list of clowns you listed above. Ever heard the expression "don't follow bad money with good money"? That's what you are wanting the Bobs to do after finally getting out of Diop and Tyrus type contracts.
Henderson is worth about $5 mil max and not a guy you build a team around, so therefore paying him just because guys with "similar numbers" got "big contracts" is asinine and not what a good GM would do.
Posted by: Frank | Jul 11, 2013 11:16:41 AM
considering how much he improved his range last year and he continues to work on it.......at age 25.......i would be surprised if by 30 he isn't considered a shooter.
I think his reluctance to shoot from range early had more to do with his KNOWING that he was more effective going to the bucket and pulling up mid range.
we keep talking about shooters and seth curry is rehabbing away in our backyard unsigned.
for all the ellis talk.......i repeat......where does that get us? does signing ellis get us into championship contention? no. is he a guy that will thrive in a 3rd or 4th option and defender mode? no. so how is he MORE valuable than henderson especially when he costs more and takes away from walker in a lot of ways? does not make sense.
all the same that you can talk about stat stuffing on a bad team you can talk about how teammates took away from his production by teams being able to key in on hendo and possessions were taken away by poor rebounding and turnovers and poor passing. like mentioned above, what's the difference with ellis and jefferson? they came from mediocre teams also who had wayyyyy more talent around them.
the hate for henderson in this town is inexplicable. it's as if we hate our best players and want to get rid of them instead of just making them our 4th best player by adding TO them. the goal should be to get kemba/mkg/zeller PAST hendo and or bring guys in that are above him and keep him to compliment. not to replace him with someone slightly better (or slightly worse) that doesn't improve the team significantly either way.
and for all the "no rumors" that are being claimed.......that's partly because he's restricted and partly because EVERYONE assumed he was coming back to charlotte. boston, indiana, and the clippers all made trade offers at the deadline. it's not like he's unwanted in the league at all. dude is a starting caliber SG in this league.
somebody please name 20 shooting guards better.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 11:25:45 AM
In the NBA, just the same as any other pro-sport or any other industry for that matter, you use comparables to establish how much you will pay for a certain good or service. It can be a house, a car, or an NBA player. That's the way it is, regardless if it is true or not.
Based on your argument, 90% of the players in all sports are overpaid. Which is a true statement. It is true that Henderson is a $5M per year player, however, because of how the NBA (and all pro-sports)works, he will most likely end up getting close to $7M Per Year, unless he decides to take less money to go play for a contender. Very rarely do you get a bargain on a player, unless your team is a contender or the player is coming off a bad season or injury.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 11, 2013 11:30:52 AM
Jeff makes a very good point. Henderson adds nothing special to this team. They are all filled with midrange jumpshooters. Anyone can do what Henderson does.
The thing with him is he is the most unexciting, uninspired SG I have ever seen. It's like he's half sleep on the court. He's ALWAYS been like this. No fire, no emotion, just ho hum oh well.
How does keeping him help this team improve? He's been here for four years and they are still horrible. How many excuses and chances must one guy get?
Some of you are so stuck on wanting to be bad or mediocre. I don't get this town. Any other city would be clamoring to get Ellis, especially a city with this Bobcat history of losing. But yet some still want to hold on and cling to the hopes of Henderson being an all star caliber player. Ellis IS AN ALL STAR. Henderson WILL NEVER BE AN ALL STAR.
Posted by: D.W.G. | Jul 11, 2013 11:48:37 AM
My gut feeling is no other team sticks their neck out for hendo and we get him for a season at the QO.
Posted by: apauldds | Jul 11, 2013 11:58:48 AM
The priority should be to keep Hendo. If he's asking for too much, then a sign-and-trade may be needed.
What should not happen, is to let him leave for nothing. We already wasted too many lottery picks (for nothing or for too little value), this weakened the team and shouldn't happen again.
I'd much rather keep Hendo than replace him with Monta Ellis. Ellis is a volume scorer (19.2 ppg last season, compared to Hendo's 15.5 ppg). His offensive aggressiveness can help win some games, but overall, his shooting percentages are much lower than Henderson's, and really, they are unacceptable at his level of pay ($11 mil last season); now, that's overpaying.
Last season: Henderson shot 45% from the field, 33% for 3 points; Monta Ellis went 42% from the field, 29% for 3 points.
Also important: Hendo's defense is far superior to Monta's.
On the business side of it, I generally agree with Charlottean's paragraph on it (including trying the q.o. or, another team's offer sheet, routes), with one difference, on the duration of the contract. I would rather overpay a little (still, within the range RobC mentioned) in order to keep him, but, on a more limited time contract (three or four years, with the last year being a team option), rather than having a 5 years guaranteed contract, that takes away flexibility for the future (since he is a good and dependable starter, but, not a franchise player).
A sign and trade for Evan Turner would be nice; probably too nice for us, so I don't believe the Sixers would do it. It should be tried, at least.
Posted by: Sandy | Jul 11, 2013 11:59:27 AM
that's BS that ANYONE can do what he does. come on dude that's INSANE statement. how many guys in the LEAGUE can do what he does? like 5? j.j. reddick can't dunk on dudes and finish in transition and get to the cup like hendo. but hendo can spot up and shoot if he were on a team that called on him to do JUST that. mayo is locking up on defense and making plays OFF THE BALL on offense.
it's as if you guys have never watched henderson play. he is better than ALL OF THE free agent shooting guards we're talking about in all around game. the difference? clippers and wolves needed low touch, range shooters and got them. monta ellis is a more qualified GO-TO guy. but henderson is the better overall guy among the bunch. THAT's why he's asking for 8 a year. because all of those guys got it more or less. derozan's deal REALLY throws the market off, they overpaid that dude BIG TIME. that's a 5 million a year guy they gave 9.5 to.
D.W.G. - ellis is an all-star on mediocre teams. henderson would be the 3rd wheel or 4th guy, on a contender. there's more value in that. that's why guys like reddick and martin get good money as role players. henderson falls in that category because he plays a floor game and doesn't have to be a high usage guy to be successful. ellis has to have to ball.
anybody that thinks walker + ellis is a good idea is an idiot. I'm not going to sugar coat it. that's not smart at all.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 12:03:06 PM
Monte Ellis 3 times in how many yrs. and
Bobcats letting another 1st round pick leave. 2013 a munchkin back court, 3 guard who cant shoot and must guard the Lebron and Durants of the world. With no defense Jefferson and a rookie at the 4 who got boos from the pick on draft night, with bismack, McRobets, gordon, and Sessions coming off the bench. Sure hhahahaha stop playing NBA on video games and translating it to a real roster. Henderson does everything well, score Yes, defend 3 position, creates his own shot yes, being on a sorry team doesn't help cause running into and getting hit buy pics is no easy task and not have bigs to set you up with picks is no easy task, but let he's improved into a 15 to 20 and sometime 30 on given nights. Sure take else and watch the games high like you do when your on your video game. Monte 5"11 out of high school over Gerald Henderson 6'5 out of Duke at your shooting guard position. Yeah right you guys like wishing about the playoff and high draft picks rather than winning and the plyoff.
Posted by: just being honest | Jul 11, 2013 12:09:55 PM
Monte 3 teams in how many years, and 3 position who cant shoot, my bad
Posted by: just being honest | Jul 11, 2013 12:11:53 PM
You are just plain wrong Charlottean. Hendo is a cancer. He never gives his all and has ZERO fire. He is the epitome of what is wrong with athletes today. His effort level is less than 40% most games. He is a lifelong bench warmer on the majority of NBA teams. And you stating he is a worse SG than Ellis only shows how little you know of the game. 98 out of 100 people in the nation would take Monta over Hendo, anyday and everyday.
Posted by: Section 103 Season Ticket Holder | Jul 11, 2013 12:12:43 PM
for the record monta ellis was never 5'11. dude measured at the combine 6'2.5 w/o shoes. still small by nba shooting guard standards, but not that bad. the problem is he's ball dominant and inefficient. he's everything an 8 seed dreams of and everything a contender disdains.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 12:16:08 PM
@Tarheels82: Just get rid of Henderson, Taylor and McRoberts? Some UNC bias? Too late on McRoberts- already signed him. And he has shown good skill and effectiveness. Getting rid of Taylor right now would be just plain dumb. He's a a relatively high draft pick who's still young and learning with alot of skill, athleticism, and size for a 2guard. It would be good to have Henderson but not for more than 8mil- that would be fair market value. He's not worth anymore than that.
Posted by: PantherD | Jul 11, 2013 12:19:28 PM
Is it just me or does G.H. walk around every game as if he just ate a handful of Xanax? We have a young energetic team with hyper active kids like Kemba, MKG, Bizz, and Cody. Why subject them to the constant sulking and moping from our "star"? Let him go, he is the last remembrance to the horrible teams of days past. It is time to move in a new direction.
Posted by: I'm Hyped! | Jul 11, 2013 12:20:15 PM
93 out of 100 might take ellis over hendo.......you know who the 4 would be?
sam presti, r.c. buford, danny ainge, pat riley, mitch kupchak, larry bird and daryl morey.
henderson's biggest knock is his lack of 3 point shooting. guess who he outshot last year as he added a 3 point shot........monta ellis.
hendo posted a 16.4 PER vs. 16.2 from ellis.
ts%: 49.3 from ellis 53.1 from hendo.
you guys will never ever learn but JUST BECAUSE YOU TAKE MORE SHOTS, DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE A BETTER SCORER. anybody can take dumb shots and make a few of them.
and anybody questioning henderson's effort is just making ish up now. you didn't watch any of the games clearly from that comment. stop lying.
who does gerald henderson closely resemble? gerald henderson sr.
what did gerald henderson sr. do?
win 3 championships.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 12:25:05 PM
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 12:25:31 PM
I want Henderson here.
Posted by: 3pt expert | Jul 11, 2013 12:32:48 PM
I guess you can't read either. It says 98 out of 100.
And yes, anyone who knows basketball or anything about sports knows Hendo gives little effort. He rarely even breaks a sweat. I sit close, I see it every game. He does not care, has no fire, and is not in any way or at any time a leader. He is not needed here. We are better off without him, no matter who we get in return.
Posted by: Section 103 Season Ticket Holder | Jul 11, 2013 12:37:37 PM
that is a JOKE.
and i know YOU said 98. I started with that, but couldn't stop naming people that would disagree.
popular opinion also thinks lady gaga and macklemore and wiz khalifa are cool.
so yeah......popular opinion is that monta ellis is better. educated opinion differs. stats differ. cost analysis differs big time.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 12:46:49 PM
i have a question........do you think al jefferson + monta ellis is winning a championship?
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 12:47:39 PM
Defense is about effort (plus several physical attributes). You're not a good defender without effort. Hendo is an elite defender at his position, so that should put to rest the notion of his supposed "lack of effort".
He's not a bad shooter (that would be Monta Ellis); he's rather a mediocre (and still improving) shooter, and still a pretty good scorer overall.
The main knock on him is that something is missing in his attitude. It's not lack of effort; but, it's the mind-set, the desire.
This is why he'll never be a franchise player, or an All Star. He's not a fiery competitor, not a fierce "attack dog", not somebody who's itching to grab that ball and score it, again and again.
You know who saw that first about him, and said it?
Larry Brown. Not at all a "Tar Heel vs. Duke" issue. Larry Brown wanted Henderson in the '09 draft, above Tyler Hansbrough (who, of course, is a born fighter).
You can't change Hendo's mind-set - but you also can't take away from him everything he's good at.
If he's "average", well, that's among NBA starters. We should keep him (in the pay range mentioned before), and keep the options open for an upgrade at the SG position in the future.
Posted by: Sandy | Jul 11, 2013 12:53:50 PM
No I do not think they will equate to a winning championship. I do think however they are a vast improvement over Jefferson and Henderson.
As far as your self proclaimed superior intelligence....laughable is all I can come up with. You have little basketball knowledge as far as I can tell and I have read your constant drivel for a long time.
We are not within three years of contending for the title. That is not my concern. My challenge is for this team to improve. Monta is an improvement whether you agree with it or not.
Posted by: Section 103 Season Ticket Holder | Jul 11, 2013 12:57:58 PM
but if monta is NEVER going to be part of the championship team, bringing him in hurts your chances of finding someone else to be that guy. don't see how you don't understand this.
bringing him and jefferson in are short term patches that get us JUST good enough to get out of the top 5 and avoid landing another key franchise talent. but not good enough to contend.
what is the goal here?
and yeah we COULD be 3 years away from contending if we had legit managament. other teams have pulled it off. but we're going to make half-steps like these instead of waiting on the bigger/better move and in the meantime developing young guys INTO better players AND getting draft picks.
monta ellis doesn't improve the team over gerald henderson. he costs more and takes away from walker and probably zeller also. he isn't good enough to win a title as the man and isn't capable of being productive NOT being the man. so WHY bring him in? why not give other guys a shot to see if they can't be better than ellis. if they aren't, you get a better draft pick. if they are, you just hit jackpot. you sign ellis......you are saying "yes i'll have some mediocre please." great.
I would put major money up that says if you gave seth curry monta ellis' shots TODAY that he would hit a better % over the next 2 years than ellis would.
you're proving your "basketball knowledge" by saying henderson lacks effort. insane.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 1:17:54 PM
We will agree to disagree.
Go away Hendo, and Go Bobnets!
Posted by: Section 103 Season Ticket Holder | Jul 11, 2013 1:21:11 PM
only in charlotte would "fans" boo zeller and hate henderson.
and hate delhomme. and hate marty hurney. and hate john fox. and even hate michael jordan who kept the team from being moved to st. louis. and hate boris diaw. and hate mike dunlap. and hate adam morrison. and now hate jon beason and deangelo williams?!
only in charlotte.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 1:30:52 PM
I understand some of Charlottean's feelings about Henderson. Yes, he has some legitimate basketball skills on offense. Unfortunately they are not the one skill this team needs from that position: 3 point shooting. Now you could overpay the guy and lock up multiple years on the hopes that he will develop shooting range, but why would you do that? You've already been paying him to develop. What if you keep paying him, and he never develops into a 40% shooter from deep. Or worse still, finally gets there in his last year of the contract.
Let me also say this.
Whether it is lack of effort or ability, Henderson's athleticism and quickness has not converted into defensive prowess. John Stockton, who was hardly the barometer for athleticism, averaged over 2 steals a game for his career! Henderson is averaging less than 1 steal per game for his career and just 1 steal per game last year despite averaging 31 minutes per contest. Stockton's last year in the NBA, at the age of 40, he managed to average 1.7 steals while playing 27 minutes per contest.
So whatever Henderson's innate skill, athleticism, or effort, it hasn't translated into range shooting or defensive prowess.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 1:38:18 PM
True that Jeff. We have two SG's who are much better defenders right now in Taylor and MKG. Hendo can't create his own shot, and is a poor outside shooter. He has just one move, drive to the right and hoist up a semi jumper at 12'. Other than that he is aces though.
Those Dook fans sure are a funny bunch!
Posted by: Section 103 Season Ticket Holder | Jul 11, 2013 1:45:48 PM
steals are not the barometer of defense. they get attributed to the player who picks up the ball, not the guy who deflects it. there are a few sites that track deflections and last I checked, henderson was near the tops in the league on those trackings but they tend to vary site to site.
Not to mention there are plenty of guys that are bad defenders that come up with a few steals every game. it's very comparable to the corner that cheats often and gets burned often, but comes up with a few interceptions. if he has great safety play behind him and that's what the scheme calls for, great....but more often than not......that hurts the team.
regarding the shooting.......i get the sentiment about the team needing shooting and henderson not having it. but neither does ellis. so i don't get the idea that swapping henderson for ellis improves us in EITHER defense or shooting.
and henderson IS showing an upward trend in shooting. he started out VERY hot last season shooting over 40% the early stretch of the season before cooling off from deep. but he IS a prolific mid range shooter. again better than ellis. so subtracting him IS subtracting shooting even if it isn't subtracting 3 pt shooting.
3 pt shooting is an absolute necessity for title contention. but look at miami.........big 3 aren't shooters. they added shooters TO them. lebron's gotten better, but he used to be bad. wade's horrible and considered one of the best 2 guards not just in the league but all time.
here's the big thing I say about henderson.......he's the best talent we have RIGHT NOW (even after signing jefferson) and you don't let that walk away for nothing. if we trade him for an evan turner, cool. trade him for a young guy with talent, cool. but ellis isn't a good fit and appears to be the most likely candidate thus far. it would make FAR MORE SENSE to keep henderson to trade later or keep him as the 6th man after you bring in a better option later on.
what you don't do is say "our best guy isn't good enough so we're going to let him walk away" instead of saying "our best guy isn't good enough, we need to get better guys in front of him and move him to a complimentary role which suits him better".
8m a year is too much for the guy, but it won't take that much to resign him. he's a steal at 6 million and worth every bit of 7.
ellis wants 10-12 and you can basically guarantee we'll be taxed for him to come here.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 1:59:55 PM
I don't want Ellis either, but I'd take an expiring contract and a first round draft pick or a true 3&D guy.
Steals aren't everything, but neither are deflections.
At this rate, Taylor predicts to be the better 3&D prospect than Henderson. Losing Henderson might prove to be addition by subtraction with Taylor developing into a starter at SG.
Where you are right is that we shouldn't undersell Henderson's value. He could be great on the right team. He could play the Sprewell to an Allan Houston. He would fit perfectly next to Carmelo Anthony, for example. I'd take Shumpert--who provides better range shooting at a much cheaper price--and a pick.
If we can't work a sign and trade or affordable multi year, we can hopefully keep him on the minimum qualifying offer for the year and then trade him before the deadline for value in return.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 2:25:48 PM
Jeff, Henderson is a very good defender.
He has a great ability to stick with his man and stay in front of him - which is a combination of athleticism and effort. It's very hard for any SG to drive by him. Being strong, he can also defend the small forwards.
Steals are just one aspect of defense, and not the most important one.
Steals come from risk-taking, from reading the passing lanes and venturing away from your assigned player, for the ball; great when it works, if not, you lost your man.
Kemba is very good at that, with 1.95 steals per game. Still, he doesn't count as a good defensive player overall.
Henderson is so much better than Kemba at man-to-man defense. Exactly the same can be said about Monta Ellis. Very good at steals, but not at man-to-man where Hendo prevails, by far.
Now, man-to-man ability, that's the bread and butter of defense. It's important throughout the game. Steals? Congratulations for getting two of them in a game; one more per game for a good "pick-pocket" vs. a not-so-good one! It matters, too, especially in close games, but nothing to compare with the basic man-to-man ability.
Posted by: Sandy | Jul 11, 2013 2:26:20 PM
Hey Section 103 maybe you should consider cheaper seats and use the savings to get lasik surgery because clearly your vision of Henderson and Ellis capabilities are "cloudy" at best.
Posted by: TrueBBallFan | Jul 11, 2013 2:35:20 PM
Problem with Henderson's defense is the taller SG's can shoot over him. Coupled with his limitations from 3, he's not the right fit for us. How do you create space for MKG if Henderson doesn't hit 40% from outside? That's the other problem. And especially when you factor in cost, I'd rather keep MKG and move Henderson.
As long as the guy you trade for or use a pick on is as good on defense as Henderson, then you go with value and 3 point shooting.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 2:42:17 PM
Gary Neal. I'd even prefer Gary Neal. One inch shorter and not much of a defender, but he's great from distance, doesn't turn the ball over, and has big game, I mean Big Game, experience.
If you could get Neal at 2/3 the price of Henderson, you do it. Then you let Gordon and Sessions come off the books at the end of the year, see who you draft, and use all that cap space to sign an all star and fill out the roster.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 2:55:14 PM
I don't think anyone here is saying that Henderson is or will be an All-Star. He is a similar player to: OJ Mayo, Kevin Martin, JJ Redick, JR Smith and Aaron Affalo, with certain strength and weaknesses depending who are specifically comparing him. He is a better defender than everyone on that list. Several of those players are better shooters than hendo, but Hendo is equal or better than all of them as a scorer and efficiency.
None of thos player are the 1st or 2nd option on their teams, some of them are the 3rd or 4th option and/or coming off the bench. All of them and many others in the league (with similar skills) are all making $6-$8M Per Year on multi year deals (3-4 Years). Henderson is a solid player, versatile, athletic and an above average scorer that deserves a 3 Year deal in the $20M-$23M range with a player option on the last year. He is also a player the Bobcats/Hornets will need either as a starter or off the bench.
In addition, Henderson is a far superior OVERALL player than Monta Ellis. Monta Ellis IS NOT an upgrade on Henderson. There are many players in the league who can be an upgrade on Henderson (none of them is currently avaliable), but Ellis is clearly not an upgrade.
Regardless if the Bobcats re-sign Henderson, trade him or let him go, Monta Ellis is not the right choice, is not an upgrade and is clearly not the better player.
Larry Brown never gave Henderson a break, which is common of Brown, since he hates rookies. When Silas came in Henderson finally played and has been improving every single season, even in the worst circumstances sorrounding this team. No he is not an outspoken alpha male like Kemba is, but he doesn't have to.
Within NBA SG in 2012-13 he was 10th in PPG, 7th in FG%, 12th in MPG, 14th in FT%, 13th in RPG, 12th in APG, and 14th in SPG. What that shows is he is indeed a Top 15th SG in this league in basically every category. Regardless of how much he screams or yell on the court, that is a guy worth keeping. All these numbers are based on ESPN. He may not be listed in some of the categories because he only played 68 games and ESPN uses a 70 games minimum to report in the stat list. But 68 games and almost 32 minutes per game is a very good sample.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 11, 2013 2:55:33 PM
I'd rather see use cap space next summer to sign that all star caliber SG (or pick up one in the 2014 draft) and have someone come off the bench who can play combo guard. Backing up our SG and Kemba at point guard for brief stretches.
Gary Neal can do that. Can Henderson?
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 3:03:52 PM
But the biggest thing I'm curious about is why people are trying so hard to find a spot for Henderson.
Are we to be the Charlotte Hornets or the Charlotte Hendersons?
The goal isn't to watch Henderson blossom. The goal is to watch the team blossom. Henderson can have a nice career elsewhere, and if we can trade him in the process, everyone might end up happier.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 3:06:14 PM
Rob C...you win the award as the Idiot of the Century. Stick to playing shuffleboard, for you don't know the first thing about how to build a NBA Championship team. Charlottean falls right in line with that, too.
You dumb rednecks can cheer for your Duke or UNC players all you wish, but the FACT remains that Gerald Henderson is not, nor EVER WILL BE a NBA Star. Please, wipe yourself off after you pull your head out of your azz. Gerald Henderson IS A BACKUP PLAYER...that is all he is. Sure, he can contribute, but he will NEVER, EVER be considered anywhere in the top 10 at his position.
Maybe you wankers need to stick to NASCAR. Hendo can sign for $5 mil...and wait to sit the pine in 2014-2015.
As for you, Charlottean...this Charlotte team will NEVER, EVER be in a position to win a NBA Championship, so please check yourself at the door. You simply want your Charlotte team to be competitive and attempt to reach the 2nd round. I told you that Al Jefferson was the guy to target 2 1/2 years ago, and I was right. You keep being a screw-up and believing that Nerlens Noel is gonna be a star. Zeller will eventually be a backup player, too. This team needed a presence inside and low post scoring.
You bozos probably think NBA Stars like Chris Paul, Melo, and D Howard would actually consider Charlotte for their team...reality check, please. When you win some NBA Rings, please let me know. My team has, so I know how it works...you don't
Posted by: No more seatcushions? | Jul 11, 2013 3:11:13 PM
Gary Neal is a reserve in a franchise that knows talent when they see it (that's why he's there). He's an asset from the bench, so, all chances are the Spurs will re-sign him next summer. I think that's all we need to know about Gary Neal.
Posted by: Sandy | Jul 11, 2013 3:19:15 PM
I agree that if there is a REAL upgrade out there on Gerald Henderson, the Bobcats/Hornets should definetly pull the trigger. But signing Henderson to a 2-3 Year deal in the $7M range, given the lack of any other choices is a good thing to do. That is also a pretty good and manageable contract for a guy who is worth it.
I think we can all forget about Wiggins or Parker, since it seems like a fact the NBA will never allow the 1st Pick to go to Charlotte, we've been screwed to many times on that end. So we might as well keep the assets we have (Henderson being one of them), and try to use them in the best way possible. For crying out loud, Chicago gave $5M to Richard Hamilton two years ago and they guy couldn't even walk.
Henderson at 25, with his skills and a contract in the $7M for not more than 3 Years, is a very good, manageable and tradeable contract. If the Bobcats give him a 3 Year deal in the $20-22M range (with a player option), next summer he will only have 2 years left in his contract and still very productive. Keeping Henderson makes perfect sense or if trading him, make sure you get an upgrade or something similar with a decent 1st Rd pick.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 11, 2013 3:20:36 PM
You know who would fit in well as an up and coming all star 2 guard for $4/5M a season? Ben McLemore. Except we drafted Zeller instead, and then paid twice market value for Jefferson to steal his minutes. And that extra 5 mill for the one way big Jefferson means we have no money for Henderson. Meaning we now have a gaping hole in our back court again.
Charlotte is the new Clippers. I knew I shouldn't have stayed with this team when they let Rod Higgins and his balltarded kid stay around.
Posted by: sfinsf | Jul 11, 2013 3:31:14 PM
We also need to recognize Gary Neal wants to get paid.
And the new cap rules are already working. Even all stars will now sign with Charlotte. Ask Al Jefferson. So maybe Neal would consider it. Start for a year at SG, then become our sixth man.
Next summer, if we don't overpay Henderson, we will have a ton of cap space. A ton of it. Max money type cap space. See who wants to get paid with the new rules limiting what teams can do.
Let's get a guy who everyone agrees is an all star.
And let's find a SG in the draft.
Unfortunately for Henderson we drafted MKG instead of Barnes.
How many championship teams have had starting SG's and SF's who can't make threes?
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 3:34:10 PM
No more seatcushions?
First of all, I hope you work with Miami Heat Front Office, since you claim to know how to build a Championship Team.
Second, when or where did I mentioned that Henderson is or will be an NBA Star. I specifically said that Henderson is and will be the 3rd or 4th option in any team, or maybe come off the bench, just like each of the players I listed in my comment (i.e. Mayo, Reddick, Smith, Affalo, Martin, etc.). And all of those players are making aprox. $7M per year, which is what Henderson seems to be asking for. Yes, I also stated that realistically he should be paid $5M Per Year, but by NBA comparables, he will most likely get something close to $7M Per Year.
Third I NEVER SAID he was a Top 10 SG. I specifically said that based on the stats provided by ESPN, last year (2012-13) he was among the Top 15 SG in the league, in basically every key category.
I don't understand your hostility...and I actually find amusing your "redneck" comment and your Duke/UNC comment since none of those even apply to me. Finally, since you claim to be a bandwagon fan of a Team that already won a Championship, then why are you even posting comments here? This is a website for Bobcats/Hornets fans. See you in the 2014-2015 playoffs!!! :-)
Posted by: RobC | Jul 11, 2013 3:35:20 PM
where the eff did this conversation go.......we went from ellis to NEAL?
neal is a great role player. ROLE player.
and to clarify......we CANNOT sign henderson to the QO and trade him at the deadline. we've been through this before with felton. unless they changed it in the new CBA, players playing on a qualifying offer coming off their rookie year can only be traded if they agree to the deal.
his trade value would be limited anyways because he would be an unrestricted free agent regardless of what happens and his cap figure would be like 4 million. not a whole lot you can do there.
walker/hendo/mkg/zeller/biz CAN WIN and contend as a group (throw taylor and others in there) if they get played up for a few years. all those guys will be long term starters in the league. 20 year olds don't win. it's that simple. we can either be patient and win or eff up the whole program and have ellis and jefferson and win 40 games. awesome.
there is NOT a better SG on the market and the ones that become free agents next summer aren't coming here no matter how much money we throw at them.
henderson IS a top 15 SG in the league. if you think otherwise, please name names to show us how foolish you are.
kobe, harden, wade and...........? thompson.......johnson.....ginobli? j.r. smith? after that anyone else is highly debatable. i think he's probably around 12th, personally. he's far from the weakness on this team and there is NOT a better alternative on the market right now.
you want a shooter sign seth curry. anything gary neal can do for 5 or 6 million a year seth can do for the minimum.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 3:55:01 PM
Nobody in their right mind believes that Hendo will ever be an allstar. Why is this a discussion. Either do a sign and trade or let him walk. Taylor is just as good, and a better three point shooter.
Posted by: Stanley | Jul 11, 2013 3:58:42 PM
Charlottean, you're normally spot on, but you're missing the point with Henderson. Henderson is also a role player.
Paying him starter money will not change that. The fact that he started and scored some hustle baskets and short jumpers for some of the worst teams in league history also doesn't change the fact that he is a role player. I'm not sure he could even beat Zeller in a game of horse, and Zeller is 7 foot tall.
So why not pay Neal role player money if Henderson is asking for more than $6 per year? I'd rather give Neal 3 or 4 million a year than give Henderson 7 or 8.
And I doubt very much Henderson is better than Neal. Neal has succeeded against elite competition when it matters most. Henderson got his in regular season games against teams that were often resting their starters or playing them short minutes.
How many baskets do you think Henderson would get in a seven game series if he was being guarded by Wade or James?
As for the other Curry, he hasn't demonstrated he can handle the ball or get his shot off against those guys either.
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 4:09:50 PM
^^^^ I will hear the argument that taylor CAN be as good as henderson. he's definitely not there yet or hasn't proven that yet, but I could see THAT argument.
all this neal/ellis nonsense is ridiculous. no henderson is not an all-star. there are only 4 or 5 every year. but there are 30 starting spots. he's a top 15 but not top 5 SG.
if you have 5 starters that are top 10-15 at their position + you have a solid bench you are a contender. that's indiana in a nutshell. hibbert isn't the best 5, hill isn't the best 1, george isn't the best 3, west isn't the best 4, and stephenson definitely isn't the best 2. but they have a unit that works chemistry wise.
walker and henderson work together chemistry wise. if zeller works the way it looks like he will with biz and mkg, and if mkg and henderson both improve their deep shooting (and walker for that matter)......we have a better team in place than our record will indicate right now.
if ellis was worth having, golden state wouldn't have traded him for a guy they know can't stay healthy and milwaukee wouldn't have given up their franchise guy for him only to turn around and let him walk. those are both alarming red flags from an investment standpoint.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 4:12:31 PM
curry demonstrated everything in the book last year while hurt. reggie bullock got drafted as a defender and shooter. curry ate him up twice last year. absolutely destroyed him in the tourney. i'm a carolina fan. curry destroyed bullock. it was embarrassing. his handle is fine. it's not flashy, but it's not as weak as portrayed either. his shot is upper echelon. just as good a shooter as his brother.
as for henderson being a role player.....no. I mean gary neal is a 6th man 20 mpg guy. henderson is an intangible 3rd or 4th option starter 35 mpg guy. you pay THAT guy more than the role player guy.
let's keep this in perspective.....the spurs gave danny green money, they resigned old manu......they aren't paying neal. they know he's replaceable. he's flip murray. he's nate robinson. he's boobie gibson. he's norris cole. he's jordan farmar. he's every other professional 1-2 guy that scores in bunches. those guys come a dime a dozen.
henderson is more than that.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 4:17:39 PM
You know, back in the day, I played some pickup games at Duke University with a guy who'd played some pick up games with Duncan while at Wake Forest. The two of us would take on some serious athletes on the Duke courts, some of them Division I players, and we smoked everyone in 2 on 2. Then we'd get into 5 on 5, and whatever team we were on, we always won. Always.
Sometimes I'd dribble the ball up, and these guys a foot taller than me would pick me up at the three point line after seeing I could hit the three, and then I would hit bankers from between the three point line and half court. The other team would shake their head, and my friend would say I did it all the time.
So I asked my friend if he thought I could do it against Duncan and the Wake Forest starters he'd played in pick up games. He laughed. He said you don't understand. The starters on elite teams are faster than you can believe, more talented than you can believe.
He said when he played pick up games with Duncan, Duncan always wanted to play point guard. I asked how could he play point guard, and he said because against 90% of guys, even guys down the bench on a good college team, Duncan was faster than them. He was better with the ball than them. He was elite.
The point is Henderson's numbers, like mine that summer, were in games that were mostly meaningless to the competition. I'm afraid he'd turn into a pumpkin in playoff games just like what happened to most of the Bobcats players that one revealing year against the Magic. Look what happened to Ellis agains the Heat.
(That's what is heartbreaking about Barnes. He just proved himself big time in the playoffs).
If you're talking about a championship caliber teams, which we should be trying to build, Henderson is an 8th or 9th guy.
Forget about stats. Someone had to score for the Bobcats in regular season games that they mostly lost anyway, and Henderson sure did that, but do you really think he's better than guys like Ray Allen, Lance Stephenson, Jimmy Butler, or even Nate Robinson, all of whom he outscored in the regular season?
I'd rather pay to see any of those guys in a big game. You know why? Because they all have elite skills that allow them to change the OUTCOME of the game. Not just play nice, but dictate who wins and loses. Each of those guys helped their teams win games they shouldn't have (including game 6 for Ray Allen).
Or put another way. The year the Bobcats won 7 games how many of those games were won because of Henderson? Shall we say 2? Robinson, Butler, Allen, Stephenson, even Neal won more games for their teams in a single playoff run than that.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 4:30:28 PM
Or let's think about Henderson if he played for the Heat. Great example because they just won the championship.
If he played for the Heat, do you think he'd star over Wade? Or come off the bench before Ray Allen at SG? Could he handle the ball like Norris Cole? Or change the momentum like the Bird Man? Could you count on him to hit all those threes in game 7 like Battier?
I have Henderson about the 9th best player on that championship team. So if the Bobcats want to win a championship, then they need at least 6 or 7 guys better than Henderson, and Henderson should get paid accordingly.
Otherwise you are just paying for guys with nice games who lose in the first round (Milwaukee South).
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 4:39:51 PM
henderson is 3 years and change younger than neal.
neal is like half an inch shorter than henderson....not at all a height issue. BUT.....he has a 6'5 wingspan vs. henderson's 6'10.25 wingspan. that's a big difference in defense.
how many points would henderson score in a 7 game series against miami? with tony parker, and tim duncan? come on man. neal got hot in the finals. he average 7 ppg through 21 games in the playoffs and shot 35% from 3 and 38.5% from the field.
you guys must not watch all the games......just the big ones. too much bandwagoning. not enough loyalty to the guy here doing it already. hendo isn't the problem and hasn't been. he's shown athleticism. he's shown clutch gene. he's shown leadership. he has shown he could be the perfect scottie pippen if we could ever find a michael jordan. you don't let pippen go because he ISN'T michael. that just doesn't make any sense.
your story is completely pointless in this discussion. i know what you are trying to get at but you're talking about DUNCAN who is arguably top 5 dead or alive. i don't even know who would argue it either. you're talking about curry. if we all recognize he's not as good as his brother THAT STILL MAKES HIM AN NBA TALENT just not an elite all nba potential hall of fame talent. if steve kerr can play in the league successfully for as long as he did.......seth curry can no doubt do the same. elite shooters with that quick of a release and that kind of range can ALWAYS get their shot off. and he's crafty enough to draw the fouls to keep guys honest as well.
henderson is absolutely as good/better than robinson/stephenson/butler. the last 2 are actually great comps for what he could be for us. a starter on a contender.
he's not an 8th/9th guy on a contender, he's a 3rd-5th guy. he can be ginobli if he had a duncan/parker duo out front. he could be a better version of his dad with bird and mchale out front.
you're deflating his stats as stat stuffing as if he was volume shooting. he scored efficiently with other teams defenses completely keyed in on him. we had 2 options last year.......gerald and kemba. everyone in the league knew that. he drew other teams best defenders the sefoloshas and the artests and the lebrons and the tony allens and the avery bradley's and the igoudalas. it's not like he was scoring 25 ppg on 39% shooting. that's stat stuffing.
i'm with you on barnes......i campaigned heavy for him last year. he was THEY guy and henderson + walker + barnes would have been STELLAR. but i'm not convinced MKG won't be as good as barnes. I think we're getting ready to see MKG explode in a major way this year. paul george had a similar start to his career and I think the skill set is similar although MKG is going to be better physically and george better shooter.
barnes is a way better scorer than mkg but MKG is a playmaker AND defender. I keep saying it.......the 5 we have can work if given the chance to grow up. 20 year olds don't win in this league. but 27 year olds do. let them grow up together and build chemistry and mix in pieces. continuity is insanely underrated.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 4:54:04 PM
Jeff you can do the same thing with the Spurs - Henderson is #8/9 on that team. The Thunder, he's probably number 7. Golden State he is 8/9. Minnesota? 7/8, Brooklyn, 8/9. The only playoff teams he might get some run on (using last year's rosters) are the Lakers and maybe the Knicks. He's a 5M/year player, and proof of how bad the Horncats are.
Posted by: sfinsf | Jul 11, 2013 4:57:08 PM
You're right. Henderson could be the 4th guy on a contender. The Pacers didn't even get to the finals.
But he'd be an 8h or 9th guy on a championship team like the Heat. Particularly with the formation of super teams, there is a thing called talent inflation. Henderson is not as good as anyone in the top five on the newly formed and forming super teams (Nets, Heat, Clips, Rockets).
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 4:59:40 PM
Sign and trade for 2014 first pick
Posted by: Rahshon Gamble | Jul 11, 2013 5:11:14 PM
Charlottean, maybe we're not that far apart here.
I'd happily give Henderson 5 million per.
I'd probably give him 6 million per.
I might give him 7 million per if he fit right on a team that was ready to win now.
But I wouldn't give him more than 7 million per under any circumstances unless he FIRST developed 40% accuracy from 3.
So 7 million. How do you feel about that?
My guess is that he may be asking for more than 7 million per year. This would not only impact the Bobcats willingness to sign him, but their ability to find another team willing to pay him more than 7 million per year after a sign and trade.
Sprewell ran into something like that when he rejected 3 years at 21 million. He thought he was worth more than 7 million, but like Henderson, he was good at many things, but not elite (top 5) at any one thing. That's a great complimentary guy--there I just upgraded him from role player--but not an 8/9 million guy.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 5:24:17 PM
the pacers went to game 7 of the eastern finals and lost to the eventual champs......they aren't contenders? or they are? they could absolutely win a ring this year with the exact same lineup.
dirk won with caron butler as the 2, detroit with rip hamilton, hendo could definitely be those guys. i think he basically IS a more physical rip hamilton with the off ball and mid range game.
sfinsf......no dude, he is on par with sefolosha and green, minnesota didn't make the playoffs and he would definitely start there last year, he and kmart are on par....different skill sets.
golden state and brooklyn are 2 of the 7 or so teams that DEFINITELY have a franchise shooting guard better than henderson. and johnson is on the decline and insanely overpaid. posted a 14.1 PER last year.
henderson could start for a championship team. he would NOT be the leading - go-to guy. but he could be the 3rd or 4th guy.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 5:26:37 PM
If Ellis starts alongside Shorty we're looking at a backcourt going 6'1" and 5'10"...
...yeah that'll go over real well.
Matter of fact I'd love to see it, be hilarious to watch! Don't put it past Air Min, he's capable of anything.
(last year CO writes used 6'1" to describe Shorty, today Bonnell uses "6-foot" -- gaining on it)
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 11, 2013 5:28:25 PM
CLT, did you just say Hendo was the same caliber as Rip Hamilton and Caron Butler?
Did you forget your med’s today?
Posted by: Section 103 Season Ticket Holder | Jul 11, 2013 5:37:06 PM
i've been saying definitely 6 million and PROBABLY 7 million but not 8 million for the past year and a half.
but i don't think anyone else is giving him 8 million either. they will if we give him the QO and he plays that out into next summer though. unrestricted free agents are different than restricted ones.
hendo not as good as top 5 on any of the 4 teams you named? that's crazy to me. first off, he's 25 and most of the top guys on those teams are 28-32. second...... top 5 on the clippers? after paul, griffin, you got jordan, redick, dudley. hendo is definitely better than jared dudley and redick. redick is not doubt the better shooter but hendo is better at EVERYTHING else.
miami......miami is stacked with guys that are bandwagoning. if we talked 2010 miami that's different but now they got all-stars like lewis and allen playing for less than what they would have gotten elsewhere. but henderson is no doubt on mike miller and shane battier level to me. which would put him in 5-8 range on the heat.
houston.......chandler parsons is arguably better than henderson and arguably looks better because of playing in houston and not in charlotte. that said........i campaigned heavily for the bobcats to take dude in the draft. our pick was literally right after houston took him, but I had zero hope we would actually take him then. i absolutely love parsons game.
outside of harden, howard and parsons.....you have lin and asik. henderson is definitely top 5 on that team the problem being harden playing his position immediately takes him out of the lineup.
the nets? they're just old and overpaid. don't kid yourself....they will not win a ring with that group. williams lopez and johnson are all overrated and overpaid and pierce and garnett are fighting the undefeated champion of the world (father time). i would take henderson over johnson in that lineup any day. nobody in that lineup has a floor game. henderson does. johnson isn't diving for loose balls and setting nasty screens for teammates. hendo is.
i bet they would make that trade straight up today if we asked them. s&t hendo and expiring for johnson.
you guys are really undervaluing henderson because he's the best player on the worst team. that doesn't make him the worst player in the league or the worst player on the best team.
he's roughly the 12th best at his position in the league.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 5:37:09 PM
One thing I will say, no matter how we disagree here, it is good to see all the posts. There were many times over the years where there were no comments on Bobcats stories even mid season. As much as I didn't want the Hornets name to return, it may be what the Dr. ordered for the fans to return.
Posted by: Section 103 Season Ticket Holder | Jul 11, 2013 5:40:19 PM
for the sake of facts: kemba walker is 5'11.5 w/o shoes and monta ellis is 6'2.5 w/o shoes.
and yes i think henderson is on par with rip hamilton and caron butler. you're the guy that thinks he doesn't play hard or sweat enough for your satisfaction. i'm the other guy.
hamilton is a career 34.6% 3 pt shooter, caron butler is a career 33.9% 3 pt shooter. butler was 30 when dallas won and while I used him for sake of reference point.....technically j.j. barea was the 2 guard on the championship team. for the sake of facts and all. butler was injured.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 5:43:49 PM
who saw that dunk agains the Lakers??
Posted by: Hornets619 | Jul 11, 2013 5:48:46 PM
The 2004 Pistons was a thing of beauty and the biggest aberration in the NBA since the 80's. Their entire time consisted of complimentary players. They didn't have a single player as good as the two best players on the Lakers. And they didn't have home court advantage. Larry Brown, the same guy we can thank for Tyrus Thomas and Diop, made the entire thing possible, and we may never see anything like it again. Ever.
The Mavericks did not win because of JJ. They won because, in that series, Dirk was the best player on the court. For three decades that has been the formula. The team with the best player in the game, supported by the right mix of players, wins it all.
Now there is a new formula. Hatched by Danny Ainge, picked up by Lebron, followed by Nets, Houston. The super team. And how do you compete with the super team if you spend more than 7 million on a complimentary player? I don't know.
The Pacers, shaped by Larry Bird, came close. (Grainger clearly overpaid given he didn't play). Yes. One, because they arguably have the best center in the game. It's hard to compete with 7'2" of strength and talent even if you are Lebron James. Two, because of Paul George (who by the way is listed as SG/SF).
Those guys were picked 10th and 17th in their respective drafts. Still they lost in an underwhelming game 7.
My point: if Henderson wants more than 7 million, let's see if we can trade him for a 2014 draft pick like Gamble has recommended. Try to find a player like George or Hibbert there.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 5:49:23 PM
Posted by: Hornets619 | Jul 11, 2013 5:49:56 PM
We're going to sign Gerry at the QO or not at all. If he can find a team that wants to beat our offer he should take it. We'll go with JT and Ben for this year.
Posted by: rcho | Jul 11, 2013 5:53:17 PM
charlottean, if afforded the opportunity to get out the tape measure in person I'd wager you those numbers are overstated!
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 11, 2013 5:57:33 PM
if we trade him for a 2014 1st round pick (other than the heat's) i'm thrilled.
and you're telling ME about the 2004 pistons. we're speaking the same language, just different dialects. I'm completely fluent with THE FORMULA. you have to have THE GUY and we don't. but you also have to have side kicks and that's what henderson IS.
the danny ainge formula got killed by the CBA. houston is going to be the newer formula which is more in line with the 90's. a big and a guard and some solid guys around them.
unless you are willing to pay 180 million a year like the nets apparently are, nobody is putting together (and keeping together) "big 3's" in the miami and boston form.
the big thing I keep stressing is that you can't let henderson walk w. no compensation like we've done so many times. even a few 2nd rounders is SOMETHING. we gotta keep drafting high until we find the GUY.
out of all the teams with rings.........none of them didn't have a top 5 draft pick in their starting 5. most of them had several. even those pistons. the pistons were not made up of role players, they were made up of discarded parts. billups, wallace were top 5 picks, hamilton was 7th, prince was a first rounder, lindsey hunter was a 10th overall selection (by the pistons too).
we gotta keep drafting high and not lose patience of that. there is NO OTHER WAY TO DO IT. letting henderson walk for nothing plays into that. even if you want to upgrade the position, the best way to do it is resign him and trade him later.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 6:08:23 PM
The formula is in flux because of the CBA. You're right about that. Which is why if we don't overspend on Henderson, we can sign a flat out, undisputed all star in the next summer or two. Because someone will want to get paid. We should be drooling at the thought of that. Imagine an all star to go along with what we already have plus the draft picks. Paul George anyone?
Second round all day.
You're also right we ought to get something for Henderson. Teams were pulling these little micro trades around the draft and when free agency started. In previous years there were little trades that netted guys like Leonard to Spurs and Hill to Pacers.
We've got to be more creative about this stuff. Make these little moves with pawns and knights. Stuff that adds up in a synergistic way. Get a couple of second rounders for Henderson, or a first rounder, or shuffle him and Brendan Haywood off to the Suns for a guy like Marcin Gortat who would thrive under Clifford. We would then have one of the best big men rotations in the league and could focus entirely on scorers in the draft and free agency.
For example, get a scorer, a combo guard, and a 3&D guy in the 2014 draft. Sign Paul George in 2014. Keep Walker, MKG, Biyombo, Zeller, Gortat, Jefferson, and Jeffrey Taylor.
Wow, we would be good.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 6:31:08 PM
Man, we could be swimming in cap room next summer. I mean, we're under the cap right now even with Henderson's QO. After this year, 18 million comes off the books between Sessions and Gordon. That's close to 30 million in cap room. So we could either sign and trade Henderson now for the right player and then add a star next summer. Or we could let Henderson go for a couple of second round picks and have almost 30 million in cap room next summer.
Who is to say we couldn't sign two all star free agents? Sometimes it's easier than signing one because they know your team will be good. I'm not only predicting a playoff appearance.
I'm predicting the Hornets win a series their first year back in Charlotte.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 6:49:41 PM
Shooting Guards better than Gerald Henderson (not in any order)
1. Joe Johnson
2. Kevin Martin
3. Klay Thompson
4. Jamal Crawford
5. JR Smith
6. Manu Ginobili
7. James Harden
8. Dwayne Wade
9. Dion Waiters
10. Bradley Beal
11. Kobe Bryant
13. Aaron Afflalo
14. Jared Dudley
16. Monta Ellis
17. Gordon Hayward
18. Wesley Matthews
20. Lance Stephenson
21. Eric Gordon
22. Ray Allen
23. Jared Dudley
24. Paul George
25. Ben McLemore
26. Gary Neal
27. John Salmons
28. Marcus Thornton
You get it, Charlottean? I could keep going, if you would like. You have no understanding to just how lucky Gerald Henderson is at this point. He would be unnoticeable if he were on another team.
Gerald Henderson is a BACKUP Shooting Guard...nothing more. You want the Charlotte NBA team to settle for a backup Shooting Guard, as opposed to signing one of the top Shooting Guards in the league in Monta Ellis. With your philosophy, no team would ever get out of the cellar.
Posted by: No More Seatcushions? | Jul 11, 2013 6:57:47 PM
Give him more credit than that. Henderson is as good as a few of the guys on that list. And he's not the luckiest SG of all time.
That goes to Matt Carroll who scored one of the most generous contracts of all time given how well he performed under it.
That guy was a mystery to me. Both for how well he shot it before the contract and how he completely disappeared afterward.
Posted by: Jeff | Jul 11, 2013 7:05:16 PM
Henderson averaged while being healthy and doubled after the break 24 almost every game . He ended up averaging over 19 . Only 8 others in the nba did that idiots during this time . He's a top 5 defender at sg . Keep on developing your draftees and sending them off . Higgins is an idiot for even considering a huge volume shooter who plays no defense in Ellis . I hope he leaves so you can see what dummies the front office are . To say there's no interest is more stupid . The Mavs , Memphis , Bulls , Grizzlies , Hawks would be huge upgrades at sg w Henderson . The Hawks and Mavs have the cap space to outbid the Cats . He's going to get signed n traded or will play it out then go to a top team for nothing . Cho is an idiot for having only 6 m left to sign him . This will be Chos and Higgins last idiotic mistake . It's time for them to go . Two runts that play no defense in the back ct in Kemba and Ellis . Who are pure volume shooters and greedy . Lol. You get what you deserve Mj .just like Wallace n Jax said .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 11, 2013 7:14:35 PM
that list is a joke. you couldn't even put it in order because you knew that after the top 7 of kobe, harden, johnson, thompson, wade, and ginobli.........none of those guys are clear cut better.
derozan, haywood, matthews, stephenson, DUDLEY?!, SALMONS (seriously dude WTF), THORNTON, waiters are definitely not better than henderson. not even debatable.
ray allen absolutely IS better than henderson, but for the sake of the argument at hand, will not be playing during the life of henderson's contract.
kevin martin is a better shooter, not a better player.
igoudala is way more of a 3 than a 2 in my book (and many others). thompson isn't coming off the bench in san fran.
beal has not proven it yet, but has the definite chance to leap up there this year. gordon definitely would be but he's never healthy. NEVER healthy. and he's overpaid like crazy.
paul george is a 3. dude you can't name 2 guys that start along side each other in the same lineup. that just shows how desperately wrong your list was. and I said name 30. You failed to accurately come up with 28.
henderson is no doubt top 15 on the list, like I said, I have him around 12. Not an all-star. definitely a starter. at age 25.
the hate for him is unbelievable.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2013 7:24:33 PM
There is obviously a number that would make sense. Probably in the 7 million range. Not sure what all the debate is. If they can get him there, great. If not, move on. Overpaying him is not the way to go, he is replaceable. Stretching for a PF/C like Jefferson make alot more sense based on the scarcity of his skill set.
Posted by: Michael Hauth | Jul 11, 2013 7:39:29 PM
I am a unc fan and I want Henderson back on a 4 year 28 million dollar contract which is reasonable based on his skills and the market. I think some of this hate for Henderson is duke hatred and is off-base. As far as Henderson's demeanor on the court, I compare it with wade's demeanor on the court(even-keeled). Also, wade is a mid-range shooter who plays good defense and so far has three rings(hmmm).
Posted by: will | Jul 11, 2013 8:02:35 PM
Could not let it go....
Henderson is a Saint compared to that punk Wade. Got so many people snowed. And i am Not debating that and anyone who thinks different does not watch him play or is biased toward him. Should have be suspended for a game in playoffs. Stern decided to turn his head.
Henderson want him almost at the cost of over paying based on his improvement over these past 3 years. Looking at his 3 pt shot compared to previous year, much improved and only think even better next 2 years to come. There is the thought will his hard play and hard work slow down afterva contract? I thinl with another guy coming in , is a concern, Henderson I think he will play just as hard night in nigjt out.
Posted by: David Stern has to go!! | Jul 11, 2013 8:27:26 PM
sorry on phone
Posted by: David Stern has to go!! | Jul 11, 2013 8:29:44 PM
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