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August 10, 2013

Charlotte Bobcats come to terms with forward Anthony Tolliver

    Free-agent Anthony Tolliver, a 6-foot-8 forward with five seasons of NBA experience, has agreed to a one-year, veteran-minimum deal with the Charlotte Bobcats.

    Tolliver, who played for the Atlanta Hawks last season, reportedly drew interest from a variety of teams, including the Chicago Bulls and Utah Jazz. He has a history with members of the Bobcats coaching staff, working with assistants Stephen Silas at Golden State and Bob Weiss in Atlanta last season.

            Tolliver has played for the San Antonio Spurs, Portland Trail Blazers, Warriors, Minnesota Timberwolves and Hawks. He has career averages of 6.1 points and 4.1 rebounds. His shooting is not particularly strong – 41.3 percent from the field.

            Tolliver went unselected in the 2007 draft after playing for Creighton. He played professionally in Germany as a rookie, then got his NBA chance in 2008 with the Spurs.

He had his best season statistically (2009-10) with the Warriors, averaging 12.3 points and 7.3 rebounds. The Warriors had such a rash of injuries that season that the NBA gave them an extra hardship roster spot. Tolliver was signed to a 10-day contract out of the development league, and played so well he stuck the rest of the season.

When Tolliver formally signs his contract, the Bobcats will have 13 players under guaranteed deals for next season, plus power forward Jeff Adrien on an unguaranteed contract. Earlier this week the Bobcats re-signed Jannero Pargo to serve as the third point guard behind Kemba Walker and Ramon Sessions.

Posted by Observer Sports on August 10, 2013 at 12:49 PM | Permalink

Comments

I like all the moves the Cats have made this offseason and I wouldn't be surprised if they made the playoffs this season because they now have a balanced and talented team.

Posted by: will | Aug 10, 2013 1:20:50 PM

I am more excited about the Bobcats season then the Panthers 4-12 season they are about to have.

Posted by: Demetrious | Aug 10, 2013 1:40:22 PM

Nice, quiet pick up...quality PF who is versatile and hard working. Won't knock your socks off but this is the type of player we need at this point. He will fill a need, good move by Cho & the gang.

Posted by: Bobcats/Hornets Here | Aug 10, 2013 2:29:06 PM

Mullens to Jefferson
Thomas - Zeller
Diop to Tollver

Far from a playoff team, but they have significantly upgraded their roster. Next year will be interesting as they upgrade over Gordon, Pargo, Haywood and Tolliver. There will be some legitimate competition at positions. and they will have a nice roster. They rally are a year away from having a lower tier playoff team with the key being it will be a young team.

Posted by: BBall Expert | Aug 10, 2013 2:29:42 PM

Is it just me or does the picture on the front page with the link to this article look more like David West than Tolliver?

Posted by: Jeff | Aug 10, 2013 2:48:36 PM

Tolliver will b a solid fill in if any injurys occur..but we have a solid fairly deep front court already..so prob not many min for for tolliver...

Posted by: shane | Aug 10, 2013 3:19:02 PM

Panthers r a better team than 4-12...close to playoffs at 9-7 record maybe 10-6...

Posted by: shane | Aug 10, 2013 3:22:16 PM

yeah, that's an image of david west...

Posted by: Jeezy | Aug 10, 2013 3:25:11 PM

Things will balance out for the Panthers. Remember they used to win all the close games? They lost them all last season to equal it out. I think this season they get back to winning. As for the Bobcats... that Hornets jersey won't look as good as it used to if they're sub-.500.

Posted by: Rob | Aug 10, 2013 4:07:28 PM

The Cats appear to be over the cap with Pargo and Tolliver acquisitions. Is a trade in the works?

Posted by: Jdp | Aug 10, 2013 5:46:17 PM

They are not over the cap

Posted by: Hugo Panther | Aug 10, 2013 7:27:16 PM

The Bobcats/Hornets seem to be doing fairly well building through the draft and are finally mixing in some good veterans. Al Jefferson is a big step in the right direction. With a much better record this season and hopefully getting close to the playoffs, maybe they can continue to bring in quality veterans to fill in the gaps and give a good balance of young players and players with significant experience. They may still be two or three more seasons away from being a serious contender, but they seem to finally be on the right track. I thought they were on the way with Stephen Jackson and Gerald Wallace a few years ago, but that didn't work out. Maybe this time will be the charm

Posted by: Panther/Steeler fan | Aug 10, 2013 8:21:02 PM

this team would have looked better with that wiggins jersey

Posted by: Scott | Aug 10, 2013 9:15:43 PM

Next years draft is 10 to 12 deep. With potentially 3 picks, they will be able to manuever to get a very good player next year. I like the way this is setting up.

Posted by: Jimbo | Aug 10, 2013 9:30:57 PM

Where still gonna b a lottery team...so we possibly could get number 1...that would b awsome...but realisticly we will b 8 through 13 so we will have to b real lucky to get number 1 over all ...but maybe.

Posted by: shane | Aug 10, 2013 10:29:30 PM

Tolliver can shoot the 3-ball...that's primarily why the Cats signed him.

Posted by: Airbrush87 | Aug 10, 2013 10:36:11 PM

i like tolliver as a player, but don't like his fit here. we had enough veterans already......should have taken a chance on a guy similar to tolliver when he was a rookie. diamond in the rough type. not sure what the benefit is in bringing in a guy who is 28, and a decent role player who hasn't done much the last 2 years.

it's hard to nit-pick these kind of moves when they are vastly improved over the rod higgins as gm era. but still.....could have been a young guy who could have become something big. instead it's just a guy taking up a roster spot.

Posted by: charlottean | Aug 11, 2013 6:19:37 PM

career 32.5% shooter from 3. can't possibly be the motive here.

Posted by: charlottean | Aug 11, 2013 6:21:10 PM

Do we have a top-15 player at any position?

Posted by: GNC | Aug 11, 2013 6:42:43 PM

GNC, to answer your question...yes, Charlotte now has Al Jefferson to man the Center position. No one else comes close to the top 15 at their position, and please do not listen to Charlottean ramble on about just how great SG Gerald Henderson is going to be some day (never going to happen). Kemba is improving, though, so we'll see there. The 2014 season is when we will see, through the draft and through free agency, this Hornet team really improve.
Please, there will be no playoffs for the Bobcats, so put down the bong.

Posted by: No More Seatcushions | Aug 11, 2013 7:10:34 PM

I heard he doesn't play defense is that true?

Posted by: GNC | Aug 11, 2013 7:19:21 PM

He's not anyone you would write home about, when it comes to playing defense. Yet, what was he brought in here for? Inside presence on offense. You get a banger, a scorer, a rebounder, all the things Charlotte really has not had, although Tyson Chandler came close.
This team needs offense in the worst possible way. Yes, Jefferson can be a liability on defense, but that is for the coaching staff to worry about. As long as Jefferson makes up for it on the offensive end, life is good.

Posted by: No More Seatcushions | Aug 11, 2013 9:00:52 PM

He sounds good. When will we win a playoff series?

Posted by: GNC | Aug 11, 2013 11:20:16 PM

I'm not sure the logic, but I think Jeffery Taylor is remarkably a better player than MKG. Both he and Biyambo will struggle in this lead because their progress has not been dramatic at all. Taylor has improved and he looks more NBA ready than MKG. I'll rather trade Ben Gordon expiring contract than keep him on the roster. He commits careless turnovers and he's not really the Gordon we've know when he plays for Chicago. His investment (value) has certainly diminished. Where is Diop? Out of the NBA? What about Tyrus Thomas? Has he drawn attention from any team?

Posted by: bobcats | Aug 12, 2013 8:54:50 AM

GNC

Yes, Al Jefferson is indeed a Top-15 Center in the NBA, and he could be a Top 10 if he played some defense.

Also, according to the SportsNation and ESPN ranking, Kemba Walker (14) is a Top 15 PG in the NBA, and it actually make sense, plus he still has a lot of room for improvement.

Posted by: RobC | Aug 12, 2013 9:24:29 AM

taylor is like 3 or 4 years older than MKG. he SHOULD be better at this point. it's not like he was undrafted. he was a 1st round talent that fell to us at 31.


and NO seatcushions, nobody is "rambling" about how great henderson WILL be. somebody clearly can't read. not once have I ever said he would be a top 5 guy at his position. but he's already hovering around 12-15 and will most likely stay there his entire career.

there are not 15 shooting guards in the league better than henderson right now. you have kobe, harden, wade, and then A LOT of grey area.

i'll give you thompson, eric gordon when healthy, beal as he grows up, as the other 2's in the league that are definitely better. throw tyreke evans in there if you qualify him that way. joe johnson reluctantly.

after that?! you're talking about afflalo/green/stephenson/shumpert/ellis/mayo/derozan/redick/sefalosha/martin/allen/etc. none of which are definitively better and several of which are definitively NOT better.

we keep having the same argument and you keep acting like drexler/miller/dumars/jordan/hornacek/mcgrady/carter/iverson/brandon roy/houston/etc. are out there in their prime. it's delusional. there aren't many GOOD 2 guards let alone great ones (only 3). henderson is among the good. your hate for the guy is inconceivable.


even as weak as the center position is......jefferson STILL probably isn't top 15 this year.

howard, hibbert, splitter, bynum, lopez, chandler, drummond, noah, gasol, sanders, are all definitely better and you can make arguments for pekovic, vucevic, lopez, valancunius, bogut, kanter (who they chose over him).

no way he's clearly top 15 and henderson isn't.

walker is definitely NOT top 15 at his position. MKG is definitely NOT yet but will be in 5 years. biz is definitely not in the discussion but could be in 5 years. zeller won't be quite yet but could easily be top 5 soon as the vast majority of top 15 power forwards are on their way out in the next 3 years.

it'll be up for grabs with griffin, davis, monroe, aldridge, love and a bunch of young wildcard guys like zeller, sullinger, henson,

Posted by: charlottean | Aug 12, 2013 10:02:54 AM

New 2 guards come into the league the every year don't they?

Posted by: GNC | Aug 12, 2013 10:07:34 AM

and others leave.


no way walker is top 15 pg. top 20 maybe.

rondo, westbrook, rose, lillard, hill, lawson, irving, paul, nash, parker, wall, holiday, williams, curry, rubio, rose, are probably your top 16.....then walker falls in line with the next group of knight, jennings, teague, conley, and I would throw vazquez in that group as well, maybe bledsoe too.

i'm not sure walker could crack top 15 in his career either but that's irrelevant, that's EASILY the most stacked position in the nba. the 2 guard position is weakened by all the westbrook and rose and curry types that would have been 2 guards in the 80's and 90's but have to be point guards in today's nba. hand check rules made it so that they could be.

Posted by: charlottean | Aug 12, 2013 10:17:55 AM

listed rose twice, sorry.

Posted by: charlottean | Aug 12, 2013 10:18:43 AM

How does anyone no how good mkg is this year he played 2 games...taylor played against the summer league players lot less talent...and zeller was as good or better than taylor in summer ball...yes I believe taylor has improved...but lets wait and see how the first hand full of games go when they actually r playing the regular season...im thinking mkg will b extreamly more efficient. .numbers around 14 pt 7 reb 2 ast 1.5 blk 1.5 stl 50 % from the filled...but I also think taylor will have a better year to...

Posted by: shane | Aug 12, 2013 11:51:36 AM

What does that tell you about the Los Angeles Lakers ? What does that tell you about the totally worthless coach the Lakers have ? What does that tell you about the future of the Lakers ?

Posted by: MARTY | Aug 12, 2013 3:34:45 PM

Big Al- top 7 Center
Zeller - TBD
Hendo - Top 15 SG
Kemba - top 15 PG
Sessions - Top 25 PG
MKG and Taylor are key. Can this staff develop these two at the deepest position in the NBA.

Posted by: BuzzCats | Aug 12, 2013 10:58:57 PM

Don't forget as you all are hating, Sessions and Gordon contracts end soon. Extra picks coming.

Posted by: BuzzCats | Aug 12, 2013 11:07:25 PM

What do the Lakers have to do with anything?

When will we win a playoff series?

Posted by: GNC | Aug 12, 2013 11:40:04 PM

After this season the Bobcats will have the opportunity to extend The Chukker, what will they offer?

Cav's are going to offer Kyrie a max deal.

Will the Bobcats step up or will they look to go another direction at the point?

Posted by: The Truth | Aug 13, 2013 12:29:24 AM

Tell give kemba a fair contract...but he want get close to what kyrie will get...if he does kemba will have to make some major improvments in his whole game...he could....but its gonna be tough...

Posted by: shane | Aug 13, 2013 9:30:13 AM

jefferson is not sniffing top 7 center.

i already listed 10 guys that are definitely better than him no question. and most of them get paid less. he MIGHT be top 15 at one of the weakest positions in the league currently. MIGHT. he is NOT a franchise guy. he's a scorer. that's it. biz has higher potential than where jefferson is at. you could absolutely see biz his joakim noah status. probably take him 5 years, but I think he'll get there.

point guard is the deepest position quality wise, not small forward. that's just quantity filled. TONS of wing tweener guys. but there are like 20 point guards in the league right now that would have been all-stars year in and out in another era. several of them playing the 2 or even the 3.

Posted by: charlottean | Aug 13, 2013 9:50:49 AM

Ill Agree with ya on Jefferson as far as being around top 15 on all around game...and he prob want improve much...but wouldent u put him in top 5 in scoreing at his position. ..and bobcats needs a scoreing center with the type of wings and gaurd play thay have...

Posted by: shane | Aug 13, 2013 9:59:06 AM

no they don't need a scoring center. they need a finisher sure, but they don't need ANOTHER high usage player to go along with walker and zeller. biz is a great compliment to the lineup, he just needs to be a better finisher and add that udonis haslem baseline jumper to keep guys from rim protecting.

I would say jefferson is top 5 offensively skill wise, but when you look at the numbers........tons of guys outperform him. they aren't getting plays drawn up for them or getting regular post ups, but they're putting the ball in the bucket more efficiently and that's really all that matters.

offensively, I'd only put lopez, gasol, maybe vucuvic ahead. duncan, horford, and cousins if you call them centers.

but the rest are so far ahead defensively and not far enough behind offensively to say they aren't better overall.


howard can't post up as well skill wise as jefferson, but he lead all centers in PPS last year. even with his dislike for the offense he was in AND his free throw shooting woes. jefferson was behind A LOT of guys.

asik, lopez, lopez number 2, gasol, pekovic, splitter, noah, vucuvic, and even deandre jordan, javale mcgee and larry sanders who are all generally regarded as low skill offensive players.


at the end of the day, it DOES matter that he's a post up threat because of what that does for your spacing and creating double teams. leads to more open shots for your shooters. but if he's NOT a good passer, doesn't pass a lot out of the double team....that becomes irrelevant. and a guy like a deandre jordan borderline creates the same spacing by being a constant ally-oop threat.

zeller will have a MUCH more positive impact on this team than jefferson will. what he brings on offense, biz offsets in defense.

if you want your mind really blown........jefferson's 1.13 PPS will surely be a big improvement over biyombo's........


1.12 PPS.


I would actually argue that if they gave the ball to biyombo in post ups MORE, that his development would speed up so much that he would be every bit the offensive threat jefferson is and then some. just force feed him the ball 10 times a guy and watch that happen. sure he'll look like an idiot 4 or 5 times a game, but the NET RESULTS will be buckets. he's too strong and plays too hard. it's a matter of inertia to some degree. there will be dunks where defenders give up on the play and biz doesn't. there will be ugly shots that roll in because he's shooting from 4 feet away. and there will surely be ugly misses and turnovers.

but between developing his game and improving his free throws a bit.......i think he can make that monstrous leap from 1.12 to 1.13 PPS.

not to mention, he's already a better passer than jefferson.

Posted by: charlottean | Aug 13, 2013 12:30:03 PM

I see where your comeing from I see the same with biz on the offensive side of the ball he just a couple more years to develop better foot work and shots around the basket...and it's not close on the defensive side biz way ahead of big al...but I think jefferson is a pretty good passer out of the post..he just doesent pass out soon enough sometimes. .but with al and Ewing I believe thay can help biz get around the curve quicker and be better overall..then we can let big al go...and then well hopefully have a polished biz and zeller up front. ..

Posted by: shane | Aug 13, 2013 12:56:15 PM

^^^ i think that's the idea in bringing him in. supposedly he was a good mentor for kanter. we're overpaying him to do that.

I'm just saying, he's not top 10 at his position. he's DEFINITELY top 20. Possibly top 15.

If it all works out for biz, it will be worth every penny, but I think there were better, less expensive options to reach the same result. Jermaine O'neal would have been the absolute best option if they were able to stomach him not playing as much as jefferson will.

Would have been cheaper, more effective, while keeping us out of that 8-9 seed territory that unnecessarily wastes draft position for a team that isn't in contention.

Posted by: charlottean | Aug 13, 2013 2:23:37 PM

I agree...paid to much...will just wait and c now

Posted by: shane | Aug 13, 2013 3:33:14 PM

How many years do you guys want to draft in the lottery?

Posted by: BuzzCats | Aug 13, 2013 4:18:07 PM

Al Jefferson is 28 not 38. He did not come here to mentor Biz or Zeller. All of this talk of free agent player hurting other young player's development is laughable. No one plays 48 minutes per game. This team got better at every position this off season due to Free Agents, Draft, Coaching Staff and experience gained by MKG, Taylor, Biz and Kemba.

Posted by: BuzzCats | Aug 13, 2013 4:28:31 PM

We may have got better but big al isent gonna make us a top team so u draft a superstar. a small market team has little 2 no chance of sighning a star player..u cant when a championship with no star players...yes there a slight chance that we may have a future star on our team...but I wasent saying tank the season...the upcoming draft is loaded and deep we could have as many as 3 picks thats what where shooting 4...

Posted by: shane | Aug 13, 2013 6:44:12 PM

I want to draft in the lottery 1 more year and THEN put on the track shoes.

We aren't ready to contend yet with our young core, so why try and be the 9th seed when you could get another top 5 or 6 pick instead?

al is 28, no doubt. and utah went with kanter over him for a reason. and it clearly wasn't money because they took on all kinds of bad contracts from golden state for a couple mid-late 1st rounders. and being 28 isn't a good thing when the rest of your core is.......20, 19, 20, 25, 23, 24, 26, and 27.

on a team that is nowhere near contention? sounds like a mentor to me. if he ISN'T mentoring........the move is absolutely idiotic. if they brought him in to "be the man" they could have had better production at a better price in pekovic or hickson or robin lopez. and all of those guys are younger too. if they were going all in, you would think bynum.

the only way al jefferson is worth 13.5 a year, is if he's working tirelessly with biz to give him a post up game.

and you can't be mad at what it will do for biz on the defensive end when he's guarding jefferson in practice every day. he's already there help defense wise, but if he can become an absolute shut down man defender? wow. and improved offensively?


if jefferson was brought in to be the man, they would have given him a deal that didn't coincidentally expire when MKG's extension will kick in. he was brought in to bridge the gap between now and then. speed up the process a bit.

and mentor.

Posted by: charlottean | Aug 13, 2013 7:35:32 PM

and of course they can split 48 minutes reasonably. my concern is........how is biz playing less than 20 mpg for the next 3 years going to help him more than him playing 30 mpg? you think jefferson is going to play less than 28 a game? doubt it.

not to mention playing with the 2nd unit instead of building the chemistry of our 1st unit.

Posted by: charlottean | Aug 13, 2013 7:38:46 PM

Biz is a solid 9th man, nothing more.

Posted by: 20XI | Aug 13, 2013 9:32:18 PM

at 20...maybe....but at 25? he's a top 15 starting center who is still developing which is hard to come by.

i repeat.....1.12 PPS to jefferson's 1.13 PPS

Posted by: charlottean | Aug 14, 2013 8:51:13 AM

The difference in PPS between these two players is indeed insignificant. Just as insignificant as this statistical measurement (points per shot [field goal] attempted) is. You don't have to take my word for it; most basketball web sites don't use this particular stat.
You win games by scoring points, not by showing some PPS ratios.

1. After seeing both of them playing (sure you did), there is no question about the big difference in offensive skills between them.

2. To the offensive statistics that actually matter (all numbers are for last season). Al Jefferson: 17.8 ppg (21.6 p/40 min.), 49% FG scoring, 77% FTs; Biyombo: 4.8 ppg (9 p/40 min.), 45% FG, 52% FTs.

Among other things, these stats show that, if the ball went more frequently to Biyombo, "daring" him to finish (as you wish), we'd also see more "hack-a-biz", followed by free throws shot at a low percentage. No, thanks, this is not what we need.

Your repeated assurances, of what a great center our Biz will be in a few years, if just given his chances (lots and lots of chances...) have no realistic basis. It's what you like to believe, despite seeing Biz goofing up and missing easy shots and free throws repeatedly.
I'm not saying he already reached his ceiling, but I also don't see any great offensive potential. To develop it, you need to have it in the first place, and I didn't see much of it (offensive talent) in him.
{If you have fond memories of a few nice offensive plays he finished last season, that's good, but it's far from justifying your optimism).
I'd like to see how much he can improve his man-to-man defense; even on this, he's still quite a project, and his size is a limitation (and yes, I know everything about his wing span...).

You can't accept that the management built up a team that will compete to win basketball games next season, rather than stinking it up again, while dreaming of the lottery.
Three seasons after beginning to dismantle the 2010 playoffs team, with the result of a 62-168 total record, which is a staggering 106 games below .500, that was sickening for most fans; it was ENOUGH of losing on purpose.
I'm glad the management also came to this conclusion. You can't accept it, and you keep writing as if your favorite ways, of "tanking for the draft" can still somehow be brought back. This is why you keep writing about Al Jefferson, the best offensive center this team ever had, in such hateful ways.
Hey, if we didn't re-sign Josh McRoberts, and we had just Tolliver and Adrien to back-up Cody (who is a great talent, but still, he's a rookie) we could lose even more!
Face it, that's over. The management calls the shots, and they don't go those despicable tanking ways any more.

Posted by: Sandy | Aug 14, 2013 3:33:44 PM

At 20 years old I seriously doubt biz has reached his ceiling and at 6-9 he is under sized a little bit...but al is only 6-10 with alot less wing spand...so as far as size goes we have made no improvements ...but im still glad we have al...he will improve our offensive...but we have to improve the defense. ..maybe al can develop better defense by working with biz on that...if biz could catch he would help the team immensely ...the poor man cant catch a cold...but all his below average abilitys can b developed.

Posted by: shane | Aug 14, 2013 3:54:42 PM

we've had this argument a million times. you want to win now (resulting in 35 wins milwaukee bucks territory) instead of waiting one more year, getting 1 more elite prospect and then going.

PPS is what it is. it doesn't account for turnovers, just shots. Jefferson is a low turnover guy and that is a BIG deal when talking about offensive efficiency, but again a guy like biz getting the ball 3-5 times a game is different from a guy who gets the ball 20 times a game. that turnover rate goes down by default, increasing your offensive rating. I'm just pointing out the fact that every time a shot goes up - jefferson's bringing less points to the table than others. and he's consistent in that. The better move than giving him more shots would be to let the kids grow up which will naturally decrease several of their turnover rates.

it's the same mentality with adam morrison. dude shot a horrible % under larry brown because brown would run him out every dead ball with less than a second left and say "morrison go make magic happen"

biz hardly ever gets the ball and a LOT of the time it's in traffic and in situations where a guy is turning a shot into a pass. he HAS to get better at those situations, but that's completely different than a guy who gets the ball on the block where he wants it 15 times a game. look up biz's turnover rate in post up situations. it's a small sample size (which is exactly what I'm harping on) but it's nowhere near his actual turnover rate. giving him 5 post up opportunities a game will drastically lower his turnover rate - increasing points per possession used and getting back to PPS........he delivers at the rate jefferson does while bringing more to the table in transition, upside, and defense. that's the argument. he makes shots at the same rate, but turns the ball over a lot more.

i argue that if he was given the ball in better spots and more consistently that he would look LESS of a buffoon and be able to deliver the same rate of points per possession jefferson does.

i don't think free throws will be a long term problem for biz. he has too good looking of a stroke. he'll be upwards of 60% this year or next. price will get the credit of course, but i think it's just inertia. but obviously jefferson is a 70%+ career shooter. that matters.

but again......are we trying to build a dynasty or are we trying to build the milwaukee bucks?

if we were in win-now mode with a bunch of 27 year olds, I would appreciate jefferson as a post scorer. but with a bunch of 20-23 year olds.....it's hard to appreciate a volume scorer and what that will do for the long term success and development.

would much rather MKG-zeller-taylor-kemba go out there and just chuck it up from all over.

Posted by: charlottean | Aug 14, 2013 6:38:16 PM

biz is not even a top 30 center. read it and weep.

Posted by: 20XI | Aug 14, 2013 11:25:24 PM

30 teams out of 30 would take Shumpert over Hendo.

Posted by: Spike | Aug 14, 2013 11:57:18 PM

Again, too much wishful thinking on Biyombo. Realistically speaking, it's baseless. Sure he didn't reach his ceiling yet, but his offensive upside is limited - for all he has showed so far.

Then, this is not really about our old arguments on the better path to be taken by this team. It's about you refusing to accept the reality, that the management is taking now the path of making this team competitive starting with the upcoming season, using every possible way to achieve this (with the continued development of our drafted young players, and expecting some more lottery picks, being just one of those ways, while added veterans can also become important factors for the team).

The team is not trying to become as "wonderful" as the Milwaukee Bucks, it's trying to get better and win more every season. I don't know if and when the Hornets will become contenders, but I have no doubt that this is Michael Jordan's goal, and the management is now on the right track, moving in that direction.
You don't need to believe that Biyombo will be the starting center of the future (though, I'll be glad to see any progress he'll be able to achieve) in order to accept this new reality.

Otherwise said, you look like somebody who's still waiting in the station for yesterday's train. You can choose between being stuck in the station, waiting for the train that left it, or boarding the train that is actually available, and can take us pretty far. Just how far? Time will tell.

Posted by: Sandy | Aug 15, 2013 2:03:13 AM

When will we win a playoff series?

Posted by: GNC | Aug 15, 2013 10:44:01 AM

milwaukee bucks. you are delusional if you think otherwise.

if we become contenders in 5 years like we should when MKG/Zeller/biz all hit their primes, it will be in spite of this move, not because of it.

this just placates the fans who can't wait one more year to be mediocre. we would have been drastically improved just by keeping mcroberts and adding zeller. just by giving MKG and taylor and kemba and biz another offseason to work together. that alone puts them from 21 wins up to 27-30 range. jefferson will put them probably about 5 wins more. just enough to crack the top 10 in the conference and out of the top 8 of the draft.

by the time we're contending jefferson will be gone.

my entire argument centers on.......his 20 shots per game could have been divided between our other guys and seen more long term benefit for the franchise both in development AND in draft status (not to mention cap room).

if they wanted a guy that mattered.......they passed on both robin lopez and j.j. hickson because of this move. either one of them would have been more impactful long term and more economical short term. the ONLY way this deal makes sense is if jefferson was overpaid to mentor biz.

it's the ONLY way it makes sense.

it was an impatient move because there aren't many great free agents (it appears) unrestricted next summer. so they jumped the gun instead of waiting on trade options (which are always available).


biz can't be hakeem. we know that. but he can be deandre jordan, he can be reggie evans, he can be ben wallace, he can be larry sanders, he can be joakim noah, he can be kendrick perkins, he can be roy hibbert. and those are the guys that are in the playoffs every year. not al jefferson.

Posted by: charlottean | Aug 15, 2013 11:09:19 AM

Trade options are always available ?
If we are taking about quality centers, not so easy. You would have to give up real value (core players), if you wanna trade for a healthy, durable, not old, quality center. We got a player meeting this description, while keeping our young core players.

Jefferson will be gone by the time we'll be contenders? Don't bet the farm on this. If he'll play well for us, including in his contract year, and if he won't demand some unaffordable contract, then guess what - we may re-sign him. He's strong, durable and skilled, and at 31 years old he won't be too old.
Maybe so, maybe no. I don't pretend to know what the management will decide in 2016; nor should you.

You gave a list of seven players, out of which three or four are a good comparison to Biz (Kendrick P., DeAndre J., plus Ben Wallace, who's retired). Reggie Evans is a PF, he's a super-rebounder (best in NBA, per 40 minutes!), but not by far the shot blocker Biz is. The only legit comparison between these two is their offensive ineptitude.

As for two other centers, no. Even though Noah and Hibbert are not particularly talented offensive players, and their beginnings in this league were surrounded by lots of doubts, they have two things above Biyombo: size and good free throws shooting. That's why they are offensive options for their teams in ways that Biyombo is not, and should not be, for the Bobcats.

Larry Sanders is in between; Biyombo may be able to get to his level (of last season).
Speaking of Larry Sanders: first you say that, by getting Al Jefferson as our starting center, we’ll be like the Milwaukee Bucks (which is an example of mediocrity). Then you say that, in order to develop a contending team, we should make Biz our starting center; given the chance, he could become as good as Larry Sanders, the starting center of the … Milwaukee Bucks !!
So, do you or don’t you want to have a starting center that makes you look like Milwaukee ?! I guess it depends on the center’s name.

- - -

I have no problem with you having an exaggerated positive view of Biyombo, and an unjustifiable negative view of Al Jefferson. That's fine, you don't have to agree with me, just like I disagree with you on these players.
But, what started as a legitimate expression of your point of view on this issue turned more and more into another one of your campaigns; a really ugly one this time.
It wasn’t enough for you to just state your opinion, you posted literally dozens of comments since AJ became a Bobcat, repetitive and increasingly hateful.
Stating your opinion is fine, of course; mounting a relentless and hateful "one-man campaign" against a good player who just joined our team is not.

Posted by: Sandy | Aug 16, 2013 3:42:02 PM

haha @ the milwaukee bucks/larry sanders call out. 2 different arguments, but you win that point just off sheer irony/hipocracy on my end.

sanders is a starting playoff center from last year. and a young building block guy for them. he isn't the reason for mediocrity. you could swap he and biz and have the same result. a solid young defensive center on a team stuck in mediocrity. they MAY have something going with he, henson, knight, and ilyasova to build on.....but it really seems like a perennial 8 seed. as they have been much of late.


noah and hibbert are both guys that spent good time in college. noah was a 22 year old rookie and is 27 now. hibbert was 22 year old rookie and 26 now. biz isn't even 22 yet and you're saying he can't reach 15 and 10 status by the time he's 25 like they did? yet he's at 6 and 10 level now? noah is actually 12 and 11.

i don't see how that's far fetched at all.


you complain every single time you disagree with my opinion about "how" i state my opinion. eff off dude you're entirely too sensitive. jefferson hasn't won ANYTHING in his career and you think he's the saving grace to the bobcats. and i'm the one with the unrealistic "exaggerated" opinions.

right.

yet teams keep contending every year with the model I'm "campaigning" for. but you love the milwaukee bucks/toronto raptors/detroit pistons model that has worked 1 time and failed every other time.

you don't have a problem with my opinion, you have a problem with logic and reason.

Posted by: charlottean | Aug 17, 2013 2:18:07 PM

hypocrisy*

Posted by: charlottean | Aug 17, 2013 5:12:37 PM

No way Biz ever gets to Roy Hibbert's level. Biz is destined to being a bench guy, never makes the all-star team. Should have been a 2nd rounder but Bobcats spent a #7 on him -- bad idea.

Posted by: Ye Ol' Soothsayer | Aug 17, 2013 11:41:38 PM

There's a difference between stating an opinion and campaigning. You're always on a campaigning mode for your cherished prejudiced notions. You're also the only one doing it here, and you can't even get it. You have a problem.

There's a difference between being critical and being hostile (or, hateful). You don't get that either.
If a player fits your prejudiced notions, you're ready to overrate him. If he doesn't meet same notions, you turn hostile. Again, if you were aware of these problems you have, you'd be able to correct them. You're not.

I mentioned the more significant differences (not age) between Biyombo on the one hand, and Noah and Hibbert on the other. These differences applied also when Hibbert and Noah were in college, at Bismack's age last season.
I agreed that Biz can become as good as Sanders was last season. This isn't far-fetched - though, he's not there yet.

One more point you don't get: your arguing is not really with me now, it's with the management's current approach. They know enough about this league to realize that the "all of the above" approach (which integrates developing young drafted players with all the other available ways to upgrade the roster from one season to another) is the best, and actually the only sane and realistic one for constant improvement.

You're enslaved to an over-simplifying prejudiced conception, and you're unable to see these issues in a realistic perspective.

You get from me the sharp criticism you earned. Why ? Because your single-minded stubbornness, your absurd relentless campaigning, are annoying.
You just can't get it: you're the only one doing this here, your repetitive campaigning is what is annoying -
NOT at all your opinions as such. (Not to mention that I never have a problem stating those points of agreement we have).

To end this: there is also a difference between criticism to the point, and getting rude. "eff off dude". This is one more thing you don't get, just like you don't get that each time you can't do better than be rude, you're only putting yourself automatically in a position of inferiority.

I actually don't care about your well known name calling, insults and abbreviated cussing. Believe it or not, I don't - it's meaningless.

However, I'd enjoy a lot more discussing b-ball with you (through agreements and disagreements alike) if a. you could keep it civil and b. (more important) if you could just state your point of view like any normal person does - without going into your relentless crusades for the holy cause of imposing your prejudiced conception.

I know, I'm only asking for the impossible. So, keep ranting, cussing, keep up your absurd fight for your holy cause. You know from past experience, there always comes the point when I'm getting totally BORED with your latest campaign, and I stop responding.

Posted by: Sandy | Aug 17, 2013 11:52:57 PM

you making rules for the internet now? i'm civil when civility is called for.

You make the comment about current management as if they have proven track records and know what they're doing.

you make noah's 12 and 11 and hibberts 15 and 10 per 36 look like they absolutely dwarf biyombo's 6 and 10 at age 20. and low usage. It's just not factual to say that he's out of the realm of possibility to get there. the numbers say otherwise.

free throw shooting is the big difference where they have advantages. everything else?

the point made was....there's far more guys in the playoffs each year that look like biyombo, than guys that look like jefferson. or guys named jefferson. i'm talking about jefferson. jefferson isn't in the playoffs every year. we will contend one day in a few years in spite of signing him, not because of signing him. if they sign another guy LIKE him.....we will be the detroit pistons of the past 5 years. gordon, villenueva, stuckey.......awesome.

or the milwaukee bucks.

if that's what you're going for.....then you're argument succeeds. but if you're talking about building a legit contender? signing al jefferson and giving biyombo 18 mpg this year is NOT helping us get there. it's helping us win 5 more games.

Posted by: charlottean | Aug 20, 2013 11:48:55 AM

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