August 24, 2013
Syracuse shooter James Southerland to be in Charlotte Bobcats training camp
Former Syracuse forward James Southerland, a long-range shooter who wasn’t drafted in June, has accepted an invitation to Charlotte Bobcats training camp, president of basketball operations Rod Higgins confirmed Saturday.
Southerland, a 6-8 forward, made 40 percent from the college 3-point line as a senior for the Orangemen. Long-range shooting has been a concern for the Bobcats, as new coach Steve Clifford tries to create better spacing offensively.
Southerland will come to training camp at UNC Asheville on an unguaranteed contract and he’ll have a challenge making the team. The Bobcats have plenty of power forwards. They drafted Cody Zeller fourth overall and re-signed Josh McRoberts. They have Jeff Adrien on an unguaranteed deal and recently signed Anthony Tolliver, also to improve their shooting.
At small forward, the Bobcats have Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and the quickly improving Jeff Taylor.
Posted by Observer Sports on August 24, 2013 at 03:37 PM | Permalink
Much much better fit than Seth Curry. A SF that can really shoot it.
Posted by: Mikey | Aug 24, 2013 5:51:57 PM
because we need small forwards and everything.
Posted by: charlottean | Aug 25, 2013 1:17:16 AM
^^^Hahahaha. They do need small forwards. Who is left behind Taylor and Gilchrist? Come on man, think with your head and not your heart. Seth is gone. Get over it.
Posted by: D.W.G. | Aug 25, 2013 2:13:26 AM
A 3 point threat at sf seemed like more of a need than getting another guard on this roster. I guess I don't have the insight into structuring a roster that some people here do. It was not a knock on Seth Curry. They have (2) 2 gaurds, 2 points that spent time there last year and 1 small forward that gets minutes there as well and played the position in summer league. Seemed obvious they needed another 3.
Posted by: Mikey | Aug 25, 2013 7:06:46 AM
both tolliver and zeller can play the 3, not to mention henderson.
between mkg and taylor there won't be any minutes available at the 3 even if one of them gets hurt.
and southerland definitely isn't making the team. it's a camp invite. they signed tolliver.
you guys are thinking about needs for this year like it's even remotely relevant to the future of the franchise to have appropriate roster balance. thinking LONG TERM....eff long term....thinking ONE YEAR FROM NOW....we don't have sessions, pargo, or gordon under contract.
and out of our young core of walker/taylor/henderson/mkg/zeller/biyombo we have no elite shooters.
the whole point of signing curry is that it would be a non guaranteed half a million investment for a guy that can shoot lights out, whose brother was dominating the nba last year. even if he's gerald wilkins or even damien wilkins for that matter.........YOU STILL TAKE A FLIER ON DOMINIQUE'S BROTHER/NEPHEW. JUST TO MAKE SURE you aren't missing out.
there's no reward for anthony tolliver or james southerland. they aren't going to play anyways. southerland was nowhere near as good as curry in college. guys that couldn't stop curry on one leg got drafted in the first round as defensive stoppers.
they got abdul gaddy coming to camp. instead of seth curry. there's no argument defending them not being able to get him into camp.
argue against a guaranteed deal all you want, but not a non guaranteed deal. zero risk, plenty potential reward.
Posted by: charlottean | Aug 25, 2013 7:31:36 AM
Cody Zeller playing the 3? That should be an interesting experiment. There are so many 7' 3 men in the league. Southerland can legitimately stretch the D from the the 3 spot. Funny how teams can miss on Curry, but couldn't have missed on Southerland?
Posted by: Bobnet | Aug 25, 2013 7:23:00 PM
Sounds like the Spurs wanted this guy. I will go with their track record over anyone that posts here. Good move Bobcats.
Posted by: Bingo | Aug 25, 2013 7:32:27 PM
I read that the Spurs gave him a proomise in the 2nd round if he played overseas for a year. Good sign if they were interested. A 6'8" guy that can shoot the 3. That is worth a camp invite.
Posted by: JJ | Aug 26, 2013 8:25:21 AM
andre kirilenko, kevin durant, jan vesely, bargani, jonathan bender, lamar odom, brad sellers etc. all come to mind.
dirk played the 3 when the mavs had juwon howard and lafrentz and bradley. if power forwards became power forwards again, he would be a 3/4 combo not a 4/5 combo. until then......he's definitely a 4/5 combo. but there are a lot of 3's he could guard.
size trumps a lot in talent evaluation and southerland has nba size. curry doesn't. and every year there's a guy who doesn't have nba size.......taking the nba by storm. if a guy can play, a guy can play. simple as that.
Posted by: charlottean | Aug 26, 2013 12:29:52 PM
I will still go with the Spurs on this one. No offense.
Posted by: Bingo | Aug 26, 2013 6:50:25 PM
i'm not against southerland. i'm against not having curry. we should have brought in southerland AND curry over tolliver and NOT curry.
signing tolliver is a waste of a roster space for a guy already peaked and surely to only be here for a season (if he doesn't get traded as a throw in before the end of the year).
cho has made practical sensible moves since he's been here, but he's failed to make any splash with any risk or any kind of roll the dice moves where you get large value for low cost. by not making those moves, it leads to mediocrity and that's what we look headed toward right now.
southerland has nothing to do with it. not wanting to bring in and develop seth curry was idiotic.
non guaranteed 500k for him to fall somewhere between europe bound and his brother. the risk is minimal and the reward could be powerball level.
what happens when he goes all danny green in a few years?
and let's be clear.....the spurs wanted to draft and stash southerland, not sign him right now. that means they wanted to take a look at him and hold his rights.
i trust the spurs too.
Posted by: charlottean | Aug 26, 2013 7:34:33 PM
Did the Bobcats refused to sign Seth Curry? My understanding is Seth decided to play with Golden State instead of playing with the Bobcats. I don't know that the Bobcats had any control over the situation. Seth wanted to be with his brother and Stephen made it happen.
Posted by: RobC | Aug 27, 2013 9:02:03 AM
he signed a non guaranteed contract as a camp invite. all we had to do was give him SOME guaranteed money and he would have been here. eff it we SHOULD have guaranteed the whole year even if the plan is to have him play in the d-league for a year to develop further as a point guard.
he said he chose to go there because they laid out a plan for him involving their d-league team and coaches to help him start his career. we were like "yeah you can come work out here"
Posted by: charlottean | Aug 27, 2013 1:15:10 PM
I agree with Rob C. The Bobcats weren't going to sign Seth to a guaranteed contract and with both offers being equal, I think that Seth just chose to play in Golden State with his brother. It is easy to slam the Bobcats for not getting Seth to camp but wise up, you can't get all the players that you want. Over the next two years, the Bobcats have 3 first round picks (not including the one that they owe the Bulls) and will most likely draft players that are much better than any of the players that you are crying about that won't ever play extensive minutes in the NBA.
Posted by: Mike | Aug 27, 2013 1:26:16 PM
it's insane to have watched the 2 of their college careers in their entirety. watch one go top 10 out of davidson and watch one go not only undrafted but unsigned out of duke.
if you watched both of them in college, the ONLY difference is big fish small pond (which applies to both at the small schools) and slightly lessor big fish in a HUGE pond (applying to seth at duke/ACC)
it's absolutely insane for anybody to make the argument that he isn't worth the rookie minimum. it's asinine. his brother was DOMINATING the nba last year. the argument AGAINST seth is that "he's not his brother".
so that same argument applies to about 390 other nba players and about 150 guards.
you can not name 10 shooters in the nba at the caliber of seth curry. that ALONE is an automatic contract. am I the only one that watched this dude play? austin rivers is a top 10 pick but THIS dude doesn't deserve a contract? FOH.
yeah that was 1st round draft pick "defensive stopper" reggie bullock guarding him.
and I'm a carolina fan.
this would be the equivalent of russel wilson not getting drafted and only getting a camp invite from san diego because of philip rivers.
Posted by: charlottean | Aug 27, 2013 2:07:40 PM
Can't name 10 shooters the caliber of Seth in the NBA? Wow. Now that he is in camp with an NBA team, I can't wait to follow his all-star career.
Posted by: JJ | Aug 28, 2013 12:09:33 PM
Seth didn't choose the Warriors over the Bobcats. Based on all the media reports I read, the Bobcats did NOT invite him for training camp.
Our team wanted Seth for the Summer League - which is a totally different story - but he was injured and couldn't play then.
Rick - and other web sites as well -reported that Seth wanted to sign with the Cats, but ... nothing came out of this. It wasn't his preference, it was the Cats' lack of interest.
It was reported that Seth had a choice of signing either with the Warriors or with Barcelona. Not with the Bobcats.
I said it before, I was surprised by our management's lack of interest, and I certainly would've liked to see Seth playing here.
But, I can also see why. Seth is a small shoot-first guard. He's too small to be SG in the NBA, and is not ready to play the point at this level. What if Kemba or Sessions is injured (as it happened last season)? Then, we have Pargo. He's also a small shoot-first guard, but he has lots of pro experience at PG, and so, he can handle this position at a decent level.
Seth needs to spend a whole season in the D-League, raise his level of playing PG, and then, hopefully, he'll become NBA material at that position.
2. Steph and Seth are NOT the same player, just placed in different circumstances.
Steph Curry used to play SG at Davidson, when they had Jason Richards doing a good job at the point. Then, in his junior year, Steph played point guard, and did this very well (5.6 apg).
Seth Curry went the opposite route. He had the opportunity to be the starting PG for Duke - the position that matches his size, but not his style of playing - two seasons (sophomore and junior), didn't impress at all (2 and 2.4 apg). Then, he played SG, displaying his great shooting talent, as a senior.
In his two seasons as Duke's point guard, Seth Curry totaled 157 assists in 71 games.
Steph Curry had 189 assists in 34 games in his junior season.
That's a huge difference; also, it should be evidently easier to collect assists when you're surrounded by Duke talent than when surrounded by Davidson talent.
This difference, clear from their college days, explains why Steph was a lottery pick in the '09 Draft and is one of the top young point guards in NBA now, while Seth went undrafted and didn't see interest from the Bobcats even for the third string PG job.
Again, Seth is a small shoot-first guard, who needs to develop his PG skills in order to have a career in NBA. I hope he'll make it, but he's not there yet.
Posted by: Sandy | Aug 28, 2013 1:50:29 PM
right so I guess nolan smith and kyrie irving didn't exist at all. and quin cook and austin rivers too right? coach K himself said that the reason he didn't play the 1 last year was because of the injury.
I'm not saying he's a true and true pg (although NOBODY said that about steph either. keep in mind he's getting 5.6 assists a game because teams were literally double teaming him every game in its entirety. can't do that at duke where 1-5 are the best player at davidson).
I DO believe he needs a year in the d-league. half a million to stash and develop a guy of that caliber? again....no brainer. would have been a no brainer to give him a small guarantee training camp invite....push him towards barcelona for the year and bring him back next summer fully guaranteed when our roster calls for it more.
would have made sense to have acquired a late 2nd rounder to do the same.
i do NOT believe seth IS steph by any means. but I also don't think the difference is far enough to have one dominating the league as a top 10 pick and the other not be worth a minimum contract/camp invite. especially not in this draft class. not where cj mccollum goes top 10. set curry is every bit as good as a 6-3 scoring guard as cj mccollum.
somebody please name me the 10 shooters better than seth curry in the nba. curry, novak, nash, maybe korver, MAAAAYBE danny green as the only ones I would put in front.
guys like bonner, redick, morrow, thompson I would all put behind seth curry. ray allen in his prime would be a no brainer (I assume this is his last or second to last year).
again, it kills me that cho doesn't roll the dice with a guy or 2 every year. you HAVE to do that as a GM to get those upside guys. you find an anthony tolliver, an anthony morrow, a jeremy lin, a danny green, a chris copeland, a j.j. barea. I'm not saying fill the roster with them, but you can't have a roster entirely made up of your top 10 picks and washed up veterans. not unless you're absolutely nailing your top 10 picks and have no holes in your young core. we do......and that's shooting.
cho effed up here. there's no defending NOT bringing the kid in for the rookie minimum. no defense for it.
Posted by: charlottean | Aug 28, 2013 2:31:01 PM
Why does every story Rick writes turn into a Seth Curry debate, even when the story has nothing to do with Seth Curry? Obsess much? The fact is that the 3 is the spot that Charlotte needs the most depth at. MKG is the only "true" 3 on the roster. Taylor can play the 3, but is more of a combo 2/3. Both are unproven 2nd-year players. Zeller playing the 3? Absolutely laughable. 90+ % of the 3's in the league would drive right past him in the half-court offense. It'd be like us playing 4 on 5 on the defensive end. Tolliver? He's always played PF, but I suppose he could play some spot minutes at the 3 if it was absolutely necessary (let's hope it's not).
Bottom line: Southerland is a very good camp invite. Shocked he wasn't drafted. I thought that he could go as high as early 2nd round. He's a good long-distance shooter, decent scorer all-around and quite good defensively, as well. I honestly think his potential is just as good as Taylor's...with the main difference being that Southerland is a "true" 3. If there weren't so many guys already under contract, I'd say that, assuming he played well in camp/pre-season (I'm certain he will), that he would almost certainly make the team. Even with 13/14 guys already under contract, I'd still say he has a 50+ % chance to make the cut, especially if Adrien's contract doesn't become guaranteed.
One humble request? I'd like to know what others think of Southerland without bringing Seth Curry into the conversation. It's a moot point. Seth is with his bro in GS. Let's talk about who's HERE instead of who's NOT here.
Posted by: Don | Aug 28, 2013 2:53:08 PM
^^^ and it's an absolute effing shame that he is. I can't get over it. I will probably be culpable of bringing it up repeatedly over the next 15 years. let's all hope he ends up having a long and prosperous career in europe for the sake of my sanity.
I don't agree about zeller being laughable. he grades out athletically than most 3's in the league. he's not a stellar defender by skill set, but athlete? anybody blowing by him would be blowing by mkg or taylor all the same. the guy had a better combine laterally and top speed and vert than almost everybody guards included. it's not ideal obviously. but for the sake of acting like we absolutely NEED a 3......we have 5 guys who could play the 3.
southerland is a good player. I trust syracuse products who played for boeheim for 4 years as far as knowing how to play.
cody zeller had better marks in EVERY category at the combine. so to say southerland can play the 3 and zeller can't because people will blow by him doesn't hold a lot of merit. I like southerland. but not enough to think he's worthy of a roster spot. way too many guys more deserving. he was absolutely underwhelming in summer league for golden state. his only good game was against us when we sat all our actual players.
i don't see it.
Posted by: charlottean | Aug 28, 2013 3:55:42 PM
Southerland is a shooter. Not a driver (which is needed at the 3), not much of a rebounder, relatively to what's expected of a SF (5.2 rpg as a starting senior at Syracuse). Will he be a good defender at NBA level? Not known yet.
You see, with MKG and Jeff Taylor, we knew right away we get elite defenders.
IF Southerland can defend at this level, he'll make himself needed in NBA. Not otherwise; shooting alone won't cut it.
Posted by: Sandy | Aug 28, 2013 4:11:58 PM
^^^ see: shane battier, bruce bowen, etc. even defending on its own doesn't get it done for too long. biz is a prime example of that right now.
i don't really subscribe to the idea that the 3 was/is a position of need. it might be for RIGHT NOW as the 15th man, but it isn't long term. so what do we gain by carrying a rookie and attempting to develop him at a position where we have our long term solution locked in? and realistically his backup. even if you think taylor is more of a 2.......he, henderson, and MKG need minutes and they all play on the wing. 32 minutes each kills both the 2 and the 3 minutes wise. if someone gets hurt you have tolliver, gordon, and realistically....sessions as a 2.
looking outside of THIS season....we need a long term backup at pg or even a potential upgrade from kemba. Would much rather carry 4 point guards this year if it means keeping a guy that could be the long term backup.
sessions, pargo, and gordon are all on last year of deals so a 1-2 combo would seem more ideal to develop than a 3.
on that note....tolliver makes very little sense to me. i don't feel like we have the kind of young guys that need a whole lot of veteran mentoring and i'm not sure he'd be the guy to deliver that anyways. so why use a roster spot on a veteran who has peaked at the end of the roster who isn't going to sell any tickets or make any impact. much rather go with a wild card development guy there or a jamison/odom/turkoglu type name that would get fans excited with no actual basketball merit.
Posted by: charlottean | Aug 28, 2013 9:41:38 PM
Potential upgrade from Kemba? To me, that's a bit harsh at this point. I think he still has room for improvement. He showed this last season, and I'd like to see how his game progresses this season, before thinking of an upgrade.
Sessions came here at the age of 26, on a two years contract. I don't claim to know that he'll be re-signed after this season, but I think that would make a lot of sense. For him too, I'd like to see how he'll do this season; chances are he'll be better under Clifford than he was last season - just as he was in his previous seasons. Dunlap pushed him way too much to be a scorer more than a playmaker (this was one of the things I most resented about that coach). I'm glad that episode is past.
I'm not sure if Southerland will pan out for us, but I'm rooting for him. We need depth at SF. Tolliver is a PF who already said he's much more comfortable at 4 than at 3. We got him because his shooting can stretch defenses. He fits our new coach's approach. He may not get many minutes, unless the injury bug strikes - and, it's good to be prepared for such a thing.
I'd like to keep Adrien too. He brings more toughness inside than any PF on our current roster, which may be needed in some games.
I also think the honest effort he put every time he played last year deserves to be rewarded.
Posted by: Sandy | Aug 28, 2013 11:05:48 PM
Sandy got it right. Seth was dying for a non-guaranteed invite to the BOOBcats camp but Air Minimum, Yes Co. & Cho fuuuuuuuumble once again!
This franchise will never perform at full capacity as long as His Minimumness is in control -- been that way for 7 years -- won't change until he is G-O-N-E.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Aug 29, 2013 10:16:48 AM
i agree on just about all counts to the previous. only thing being sessions being pushed to score.....nobody else was effective, so it was by necessity just like playing ben gordon and playing 3 guards at a time was. especially when mullens was out, especially before we got mcroberts.
regarding kemba, I too think he can improve drastically. what I meant was....bringing in a young wild card that could push him and challenge him. instead of vets who are comfortable being the backup. the worst case scenario is we have a young backup (ideally a combo guard big enough to play WITH kemba at times), best case is, he turns out to be better than kemba.
i agree regarding sessions resigning being a possibility, but I can't help but think that trading him between now and the deadline would bring the most value especially when he'll be a UFA this offseason and we COULD bring him right back if we wanted. can't see his market value going up from 5 million no matter what he does. those kind of mid level deals are going to become more and more scarce with the cba.
regardless, thinking PAST this year....you have pargo, gordon and potentially sessions to replace at the 1-2 spots. seems like getting a guy to develop in the d-league for a year would have been a wise investment for the future as opposed to a veteran to fill in IF someone gets hurt. even if somebody gets hurt it's not likely that playing tolliver helps us in anyway for the long term. I mean if we're carrying zeller, mcroberts, AND adrien? even if we aren't.....between biz, jefferson, mcroberts, and zeller - I can't see him cracking the floor unless 2 or 3 of those guys go down at the same time.
still have haywood too.
the angle I see with tolliver is trade bait. he could become valuable to someone ELSE if a contender loses somebody (think danny granger going down again in indiana, or kobe coming back and the lakers making a desperate playoff push).
that's the only angle I see signing tolliver being beneficial. looking for the next 22 year old tolliver would have been better long term unless some how some way tolliver becomes the deal sealer in some mega trade (not likely - more likely a throw in)
should have been curry in the d-league.
Posted by: charlottean | Aug 29, 2013 10:58:41 AM
Nastar99...its time for boones farm jer now.....why are you wasting your time on the bobcats ahem I mean boobcats board over a player that won't get much burn...over priceing for pre season straight from the mind of boone farm jers...lol. we need some negative post on the panthers articles or are you just waiting until the games count?
Posted by: mfreeze3152 | Aug 29, 2013 1:27:13 PM
I think Tolliver is here because he fits Steve Clifford's expectations. Having a "stretch 4" is a nice luxury; spreading out the opponents' defenses helps his teammates' scoring too. Last season, at 34% from behind the arc, Tolliver was 11th among power forwards in this stats category (counting those who took at least 100 3-point shots only).
Now, if we keep Jeff Adrien too, we'd have an obvious overload at 4, a lot more minutes needed than minutes available. Still, having different types of players who can play the same position can be useful, depending on the match-ups with other teams.
There is a benefit to this in practice too. It's one thing to have Cody and Josh McR. going up against each other, or against Tolliver, in practice, it's a quite different thing to go against Adrien (as a more physical, rugged player). This matters too, and it can benefit a lot Cody's development.
I know that finding some scoring, somehow, was a problem last season. Dunlap's idea was to get this done by playing often three guards, and putting the burden of scoring on them first. Given the roster we had, playing part of the time with three guards was needed. But, I could never agree with turning a true point guard into a score-first guard.
You try anything else rather than tell Sessions to keep driving over and over again to the rim. Of course he can do that occasionally as a point guard, but not relentlessly, as this was done.
I hated that, because it was way overdone, that's not who Sessions is, and the results were not good (as for his shooting percentage). As I said, I'm glad this episode is over.
I'm looking forward to seeing Sessions play again like the true PG that he is.
This is one of the things I like about Steve Clifford, that he believes in using players to their strengths.
Posted by: Sandy | Aug 29, 2013 4:31:55 PM
Can't wait to see Seth Curry mature into an all star since there are not 10 guys in the NBA that can shoot it better. How about taking a shot in the NBA first. I assume you are talking about standing on a court with no one else around. Tony Alllen, etc will determine how well he shoots it int he big leagues.
Posted by: Bingo | Aug 30, 2013 5:42:46 AM
good point on the practice benefit - although i think it applies way more to adrien and mcroberts and others than tolliver. tolliver can make enough 3's, but i mean....34% is a sliiight improvement over mullens.
sessions stats last year were fine. he was a very efficient scorer but getting to the free throw line at an insane clip. i don't think dunlap forced him not to drive and dish, i think sessions just didn't see the dish option there much. keep in mind he didn't get to play with mcroberts.
bingo - you must not watch nba basketball. guys who make open shots like curry does are valuable because if tony allen is guarding him (which is a JOKE) then whoever his teams ACTUAL go to guy is - is getting easy lanes to the basket with less help D. and if "tony allen" is helping off him, he's knocking down open shots. j.j. redick is NOT better suited for the NBA than seth curry. and the guys he was destroying in college, as noted.....got drafted to be "tony allen". he wasn't playing big south, dude was playing in the ACC on a fractured shin. nobody said anything about an all-star career (that would be top 10 guard in the league, even his brother got snubbed last year). we're talking about a roster spot. the 15th roster spot. the 5th guard on our team, the 150th guard spot in the league. hate the guy all you want, saying he doesn't deserve that is just preposterous.
also, please name those 10 shooters - i'll help you out.....1 is steph curry. i'll throw you novak and allen and maaaaaybe danny green. steve nash and kevin durant as all around shooters, but seth would best them on range shooting.
who else you got? thompson? battier? redick?
Posted by: charlottean | Aug 30, 2013 10:17:58 AM
charlottean, Ramon Sessions is a player whose career I followed since he started in the NBA, and I always appreciated him. I was happy when he signed with the Bobcats.
My point above was to say that the way his game changed last season wasn't a good one.
I know that, by implication, it also came out as an attack on Dunlap, but that wasn't my intention here. That was something I did enough times while it was relevant, and that's it; for me, it's a closed issue now.
Back to Sessions: it's true that last season his relentless driving resulted in getting more often to the free throw line (5.7 FT/g attempted, vs. 4 FT/g prior to last season), and he's a good FT shooter.
But ... Since his job last season was to score more and facilitate less, when he was driving, he wasn't looking to the left or to the right, he just wasn't stopping until he was getting to the rim, again and again.
He was shooting more, at a lower percentage - talk about "forcing the issue", going into the scoring mode whether that was the best thing to do at the given time or not.
In the process, his assists went down as badly as his shooting percentage.
Before his Bobcats' season, Sessions averaged 8.6 FGA/g; with the Cats, this went up to 11.1 FGA/g. The results of forcing the issue are not pretty: he went from 45% field goal shooting (pre-Bobcats seasons) down to 41% from the field (with Bobcats).
Before playing for the Bobcats, he had 5 apg in 25.3 mpg over five seasons,
which is 7.9 assists per 40 minutes played. With the Bobcats, he was at 3.8 apg in 27.1 mpg, which is 5.6 assists per 40 minutes.
I hope this clarifies what I meant by saying that I'm looking forward to see Ramon Sessions back to his good old ways, in which case re-signing him will make a lot of sense.
I also hope this doesn't re-open old arguments on Dunlap, on which I have no interest now.
Posted by: Sandy | Aug 30, 2013 2:49:39 PM
i agree with most of what you're saying but his FG% went down because of the volume of free throw attempts he was getting. his points per possession used was right in line with his entire career. he just wasn't taking open jump shots and passing every other time.....he was as you said, relentlessly going to the rim. netting the same results in net points per possession.
i didn't take it so much as indictment of dunlap, but one of his teammates (mkg, taylor, biyombo, mullens specifically) that he didn't trust them. i think you'll see that change drastically with zeller, mcroberts, jefferson, biz as he improves, an improved taylor, MKG as he improves, etc. more offseason time with the guys surely helps too.
I'm all for keeping sessions long term as I think he fits that andre miller, jarrett jack, derek fisher type role that contending teams tend to need. same time, i don't think that's how it plays out. i think he gets packaged with gordon and/or other players for a big splashy move that will either put us in a legitimate position long term, or completely eff up the entire rebuild. that's the difference between trading for james harden and trading for rudy gay/kyle lowry.
our top 10 guys have 5 vets and 5 young guys which is a pretty solid mix. then you have pargo, tolliver, haywood, and adrien at the end of the bench.
Posted by: charlottean | Aug 30, 2013 3:59:21 PM
You have a serious blind spot for Curry. He was not even top ten in college basketball from 3 last year and you want to make him top 10 in the NBA? Funny.
Posted by: Bingo | Aug 30, 2013 5:54:01 PM
^^^ you're showing how little you know about the game with that one.
a guy shooting a slightly better clip on less attempts at eastern washington is exactly the same thing as shooting 44% for 17ppg in the ACC, at Duke nonetheless......with a fractured shin.
blind spot for the guy with the pedigree and the resume. not the kid making 46% at belmont.
dude has the 3rd best career mark in ACC history. 23rd all time in ACC makes and that's in 3 years. out of the 22 in front, almost all of them played 4 years. you add on his 102 from his freshmen year and he's 3rd to redick and scott wood. in far less minutes played. and a better % than both of them.
all time acc or the kid from belmont? which one is more applicable talking NBA ball?
the guys brother just set the NBA mark last year and there's a family debate about which one is the better shooter and you're questioning his ability?
Posted by: charlottean | Aug 30, 2013 6:11:34 PM
Really? How is Blake Griffins brother doing? Now being someone's brother qualifies you as an NBA level talent. Sounds good. If you think you know more than 30 NBA GM's you clearly can't be convinced of much. Undraftd under sized 2's must be all the rage in your world. Enjoy your delusions.
Posted by: Bingo | Aug 30, 2013 10:47:51 PM
taylor griffin got drafted in the 2nd round, played one year for phoenix and maxed out at 9.6 ppg in college. you're making my points for me. good job.
seth curry scored 20 a game as a freshmen and averaged 17 a game as a senior AT DUKE, in the ACC........... on a FRACTURED SHIN.
your ignoring all facts here. and out of 30 nba gms, several of them gave summer league and or camp invites and barcelona offered a guaranteed contract.
oh yeah barca definitely doesn't know basketball. they only brought you pau and marc gasol, andy varejao, ricky rubio, juan carlos navarro, sarunas jasikevicius, ersan ilyasova, oh and gary neal and alan anderson too.
yeah they sure don't know basketball at barca do they?
Posted by: charlottean | Aug 31, 2013 2:38:34 PM
Barcelona offered him? Mulitple camp invites. Wow!, He must be one of the top ten shooters in the NBA. Do you have any idea how ignorant you sound? A broken shin. Well that changes everything. Injured players never get drafted. I will just sit back and watch his all star career develop.
Posted by: Bingo | Aug 31, 2013 7:29:50 PM
show me where I ever said "all-star" his brother wasn't even an all-star last year and he set the all time 3 point season mark.
you are discounting him like undrafted guys have never made it big. like gary neal didn't JUST ball out in the finals. like jeremy lin didn't JUST have an insane year before last. like chris anderson wasn't a significant part of the heat repeating. like udonis haslem wasn't undrafted. like raja bell wasn't undrafted. like david wesley and avery johnson and jose calderon and bruce bowen and brad miller and john starks and ben wallace weren't undrafted.
like the bobcats didn't just sign anthony tolliver AND jeremy pargo. who were both top 10 picks right? oh wait...undrafted.
like barcelona is a joke of a franchise? try they have something like 6 or 7 nba draft picks on their roster.
you compared him to taylor griffin. and I sound ignorant to you? I would imagine a lot of smart things sound foreign to you.
Posted by: charlottean | Aug 31, 2013 8:20:29 PM
You must enjoy those debates about which one is the better shooter. Let me know when the next family dinner is that you will be attending. I heard Seth can eat the most mask potatoes of anyone at one sitting. Your version of circular logic is amusing for the first couple of posts. Then it becomes clear you have a delusional disorder. Sorry about that.
Posted by: Bingo | Sep 1, 2013 8:04:25 AM
Between them the Boob's and the kit Kats have 27 seasons under their belts...
...5 of those were winning seasons.
How did we get stuck such lousy ownership at both franchises? Air Min and Boone's Farm can't manage their way out of a paper bag -- absolute joke.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Sep 1, 2013 4:39:02 PM
mask potatoes. that's the guy arguing with me. the mask potatoes guy.
the guy who is arguing AGAINST the premise of a guy named "curry" being an elite shooter.
and all this time, the hidden secret to shooting was mask potatoes whatever the eff that is. should have known. woulda ate more mask potatoes myself.
Posted by: charlottean | Sep 1, 2013 4:54:20 PM
Shows what a clown you are.. Out of real arguements about a 6'2" (unlikely) shoong gaurd. Sorry I don't spend hours writing and spell checking. Time to go back on your meds. Maybe you can write a blog attached to someone else's blog to make you feel better.
Posted by: Bingo | Sep 2, 2013 7:15:19 AM
hahaha "spell checker"
dude i wouldn't be sweating it if it were massed potatoes.
again......you're arguing that a guy named CURRY is not an elite shooter. it's not exactly a logical side to take. the guy made 44% last year in the ACC on a fractured shin. there's no other argument about it. you have to hate the guy if you think otherwise. dude doesn't need to be 6-5 to open up driving lanes because his man can't help off him. it's not my fault you don't know what that means.
he measured AT THE COMBINE 6'3 in shoes. his brother is 6'3.25.
david wesley was a 6'0 shooting guard on playoff teams.
Posted by: charlottean | Sep 2, 2013 6:40:40 PM
They all tower over Shorty at 5'10"!
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Sep 2, 2013 9:11:37 PM
6'1 in shoes at the combine. 5'11.5 in socks.
Posted by: charlottean | Sep 2, 2013 9:26:34 PM
That combine info and $4 will get you a vente mocha down at Starbucks ;)
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Sep 3, 2013 1:18:54 PM
Are these idiots really arguing about a player that was passed over in this years draft? Unreal. There are a on of undrafted players in NBA camps. If you were not picked and then recieved no money after the fact, you are way way down the talent list. Sure a few make it, but very few. Rick, please start a new blog so these comments are eliminated. What a joke.
Posted by: JJ | Sep 3, 2013 4:03:16 PM
that combine info is recorded live by nba tv and every single nba team is there and relies on its accuracy. but yea....sure.....discredit THAT of all things.
that's why the nba is littered with guys that went undrafted. not a few, a bunch. we had reggie williams and jeff adrien on our team last year, we have pargo and tolliver on our roster this year.
the league is filled with guys that got passed over now because teams spend their 2nd round picks on euro prospects who they can hold their rights until they are actually ready to come over. can't do that with american prospects unless they agree to go play overseas for a few years which the spurs try to get guys to do but it rarely works out.
we just watched a finals that included gary neal, chris anderson, joel anthony, udonis haslem, aron baynes, and should have included stephen jackson had he shut the eff up about playing time, not to mention all the many 2nd round picks.........
and you're saying that undrafted guys don't matter? might want to look around first. are there undrafted stars? no, not many. but starters and role players? absolutely.
and that's exactly what curry AT WORST is. there's no letting that go because it's too obvious. it's idiotic that the guy didn't get a contract for the league minimum. it's idiotic.
Posted by: charlottean | Sep 4, 2013 10:35:13 AM
Did he consult with Danny DeVito on lifts for those shoes?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Sep 4, 2013 11:50:05 PM
they play in shoes don't they?
walker is small. I said as much when I first ran into him after he was drafted. I mean augustin was smallish, and he looked like he could just post up walker repeatedly. It's not just his height. 5'11.5 in socks is not that bad. plenty of guys are that size or smaller.
nate robinson is a great example. 5'7.75 in socks. but he's built a lot better and it shows. he doesn't play as small as kemba does. he's got more strength to him. 4 inch height difference and they weigh the same.
Posted by: charlottean | Sep 5, 2013 9:36:44 AM
Nate is a stud. Think the BOOB's front office called him?
Shorty is like the Mark Sanchez of the BOOB's, only a matter of time until the slurpers realize he's not going to take this team to the promised land. You, I think you've already figured that out.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Sep 5, 2013 10:03:20 AM
nate is overlooked the same way seth curry is getting overlooked.
how could you not love to have a guy who just carried a team on his back in the playoffs.
as simmons calls it...."irrational confidence"
Posted by: charlottean | Sep 5, 2013 4:49:04 PM
In the immortal words of Anthony Mason screaming to his coach as he ran down the court, tired of seeing Mugsy being posted up:
"Bring out the #%^@*ing big guards!!"
Posted by: The Dark Knight | Sep 5, 2013 9:08:47 PM
Dark Knight, that is hilarious!!!
If Air Min wastes a bunch of time at the Presidents Cup we'll know he's still not serious about this situation...
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Sep 7, 2013 1:18:51 AM
I am new to this comment section, but Bingo is one of the most informed posters I have read and I am a regular at celticsblog.com.
I mean that as a true compliment Bingo.
Posted by: Smitty | Sep 7, 2013 11:48:12 AM
the mask potatoes guy? arguing about curry being able to shoot?
smitty, you are too uninformed to vouch for someone else being informed.
argue about his defense, argue about his handle, argue about his size, argue about his passing. you argue against his shooting and there's no way "informed" enters your description.
Posted by: charlottean | Sep 7, 2013 2:31:18 PM
Glad I checked back. That was nice to see.
I guess when you proclaim a player that has not even had a minute in the summer league one of the 10 best shooters in the NBA people notice. Ever see a good college shooter not make it in the NBA? Again genius. If you are talking about standing on an one coourt with no one around him I am listening. But in the NBA? Different games and different players. Thaks for lisitng all the reasons why every team in the league passed on the guy. I am sure he will have a great career in Europe where all the best shooters in the NBA end up.
Look forward to a 8 paragraph reply on why you are right and every team in the NBA is wrong.
Posted by: Bingo | Sep 9, 2013 10:30:57 AM
^^^ again.....all 30 teams have missed plenty of times. i've already listed the evidence.
again is not "standing on an one coourt with no one around him" whatever that means. that's 1st round "defensive stopper" and all of his teammates.... not stopping the guy with the fractured shin who begged to come out of the game because he was in pain. 2 paragraphs. 18 masked potatoes on 8 of 10 standing one coourt with nobody arounds.
Posted by: charlottean | Sep 9, 2013 6:29:35 PM
Any injured players drafted this year? Your brain is full of mask potatoes. Anything to distract from how ignorant you sound. Top ten shooter in the NBA! Without even taking a shot! Wow now that is impressive. Can't believe you don't work for an NBA team.
Posted by: Bingo | Sep 9, 2013 8:25:02 PM
jokes on you mask potatoes man, don't try to play along.
injured and don't play the 4/5?
yeah show me that list. because you know where I work and everything. and since you're so good with numbers.........29 teams passed, not 30. and realistically 26 teams passed and he chose from the 4. 30 passed to give him a fully guaranteed deal.
kinda like they did to danny green and gary neal too and countless other long time nba players as well.
you also might want to look up all the rookies that were top 10 in the league in 3 pt shooting in the nba their rookie year. it's a long list historically. so yea...guys can step in and be better immediately. experience isn't a prerequisite of talent.
anthony morrow led the league his rookie year.
you aren't good at this game, but feel free to keep playing.
Posted by: charlottean | Sep 11, 2013 7:03:30 PM
I guess you knew that Morrow was going going to lead the league his rookie year just like you have Curry pegged as a top 10 shooter. cant wait to see it. Almost as ignorant as saying the only differnece between Steph Curry and Seth Curry is the college they went to. man you really uncork some hialrious comments. You must be playing a game because no one cold say that with a straight face.
Posted by: Bingo | Sep 13, 2013 6:58:38 AM
the coverage of this team is terrible. I know it's not even training camp yet but if you look at other teams, the media is covering exactly what the players that have shown up are working on.
Posted by: TJ | Sep 13, 2013 11:38:30 AM
hahaha you know whats sad........i was making the exact same comments about anthony morrow coming out of ga tech that I am right now about seth curry.
and what happened? dude went undrafted. then? no deal. then? golden state loses 50 guards to injuries and he gets a shot. what happens next? dude set the record for most points in 1st career start in NBA history.
seth curry is a slightly better shooter and player than anthony morrow. morrow has slightly better size. i can never remember where they are from though.
Posted by: charlottean | Sep 13, 2013 2:41:42 PM
Wow Rick, you really have nothing to write about the Bobcats?
I mean, did you know that Jeff Taylor led the FIBA Eurobasket Tournament (Olimpyc Qualifier) as the best scorer with 21.7PPG, while shooting 49%FG and 42%3PT for Sweden.
I mean, there is quite a lot you can write about only for that. Like how his role for Sweden compares to other NBA Players currently representing their country. How the level of competition compares to the NBA. How that exposure and competition will help him next season and going forward in the NBA, how he may become the Bobcats SIth-Man this year and in the future, etc.
Posted by: PR-NC 2006 | Sep 16, 2013 8:53:24 AM
Dude, don't bug me! I stopped caring about basketball around 10-12 years ago. I'm just waiting for the 2013 Fall TV lineup to kickoff! Wooooo!
Posted by: Hi! I'm lil Wicky Bonnell, I pwesume! | Sep 16, 2013 4:09:46 PM
Awww... poor lil' Seth is gone? You mean he wasn't drafted? AWWW!
Posted by: Me | Sep 18, 2013 9:51:24 AM
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