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November 24, 2013

The next step in rebranding: That inconvenient "Are they really the Hornets" problem

    Something interesting that I couldn’t report until my story ran that the Bobcats go teal-and-purple once they become the Hornets:

            Who will ultimately own the Hornets’ history? Think for a minute: Alonzo Mourning – a viable Hall-of-Famer – never played for the current NBA franchise in Charlotte. He also never played for the team now called the New Orleans Pelicans. So what was he?

            If you root for the Bobcats, do you want Zo in your record book?

This is a real issue being discussed at high levels of the NBA. The Bobcats are receptive to accepting the Hornets history, but when you ask them about the inconvenient disconnects, it gets a little blurry.

Understandable. They would love for you to get nostalgic about LJ and Zo and Muggsy. And they’ll be more than happy to retire the late, great Bobby Phills’ jersey.

But this isn’t like the Browns leaving Cleveland, and becoming the new-beginning Ravens. It isn’t the Sonics leaving Seattle and becoming the new-beginnings Thunder. For whatever reason, those two cities retained their history as part of the drill. Cleveland got a new NFL team. Seattle is still waiting/watching for an NBA franchise to poach.

Here’s my point, and it’s important to consider: Are Zo’s shot-blocks relevant to what Emeka Okafor or Bismack Biyombo did? Is there any connection between Muggsy’s assists and Kemba’s?

Smart people in the NBA are trying to process this. It’s not as simple as it sounds. Can’t wait for the resolution, because no matter what you do, they come across as wrong to someone.

Posted by Observer Sports on November 24, 2013 at 01:27 AM | Permalink

Comments

This has been my biggest issue with the name change as well. I'm not totally against the name change, but I moved to the Charlotte area in 2003. This, of course, was after the Hornets moved to New Orleans and was before the Bobcats started playing. So, naturally, I have more of a connection with the Bobcats franchise than the Hornets/Pelicans franchise. I've heard of so many people saying that, with a name change, Charlotte fans can be proud of the team again. This makes no sense to me though. This Bobcats/Hornets franchise would still be the same franchise that had a 7-59 season. It's still the same franchise that drafted busts in Sean May and Adam Morrison. The Bobcats/Hornets & Hornets/Pelicans franchises have had no common players besides Steve Smith. The franchise's statistical record book would still only date back to 2004 when the franchise started playing.

Posted by: Kevin L | Nov 24, 2013 1:49:08 AM

Simple. If it happened in your city, it's your history.

Posted by: MuggsyBogus | Nov 24, 2013 3:00:43 AM

In my opinion, what the Hornets did in New Orleans can't be part of our team history.
It belongs to N.O., and it is continued by the Pelicans.

But the old Charlotte Hornets' history is ours. It is so because the Charlotte Hornets - old and new - belong to Charlotte and to the Carolinas. It was, and it will be again, our team.
And so is the ten years Charlotte Bobcats' history. We can't erase the "worst record in NBA history". But we can be proud of emerging out of it, and of aspiring always higher. This is the connection between Zo, Muggsy, Emeka, the two Geralds and Kemba.

In other words: let the local connections prevail, for both cities.

Posted by: Sandy | Nov 24, 2013 3:26:57 AM

Those records go with the franchise and stick regardless of future name changes -- period. The replacement franchise has to stand on their own merits (or lack thereof).

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Nov 24, 2013 4:00:10 AM

In a way, I want to ask something that may sound ignorant as "what's the difference?". But, in my opinion, it isn't ignorant in this particular situation.

So what that some NBA.com analyst won't be able to bring up trivial stats like Kemba having the most consecutive starts at point guard since Muggsy Bogues (I made this one up)? At the end of the day all that matters is that if you're from Charlotte and loved the old Hornets, you can now have them back and head into a new era while still reminiscing about the early 90s. If you only have been a Bobcats fan then support the team and don't mind the history.

What I am trying to say is that the record book doesn't really matter. Yes, statistical history has a part in professional sports, but it shouldn't change the way you feel about the current team and the one from the 90s.

Posted by: LamarMatic | Nov 24, 2013 4:24:07 AM

Duh??? (Kiss)keep it simple stupid. Charlotte Hornets played in Charlotte. The New Orleans Hornets played in New Orleans. Am I missing something here. Keep all the Charlotte records with Charlotte and all the New Orleans records with New Orleans. It should be a city thang; not a name thang, come on get it together. Go Hornets!

Posted by: GUESS WHO | Nov 24, 2013 5:29:50 AM

Kevin L: If you moved here in 2003, then you clearly don't have a feel for how much the name "Hornets" means to this city. It's so much a part of Charlotte's history that it is incorporated into the patch worn by our police officers. When I was a kid growing up here in the 1960s and 1970s, even the organization that ran the Boy Scouts was called the Hornet's Nest Council. Before Charlotte became a boomtown and one of the nation's 20 largest cities, our local Revolutionary War history was our greatest source of pride. It's still a very big deal for those of us who grew up here. So when the original NBA team was brought to town, Hornets was the best possible name. When Bob Johnson brought the second team to town, we all knew he had the unremitting gall to name it after himself. He could have named it the Cougars and we probably would have embraced it. After all, our ABA team was the Cougars, and guys like me spent a lot of time shooting red-white-and-blue basketballs in the backyard growing up, but he had to name i Bobcats because he is a colossal tool. Then there's the legacy of the original Hornets' team. Everybody in town loved those guys. They were a symbol that Charlotte was becoming a city to be recognized. Remember, this was our first local taste of major league sports. Changing the name of the Bobcats to the Hornets may be the smartest $4 million Jordan ever spent. I can't wait to buy the gear.

Posted by: Fleiter | Nov 24, 2013 5:41:23 AM

Charlotte basketball is Charlotte basketball. The NBA should have left the history here like the NFL did with the Browns. Name is back, colors are back, bring the history.

Posted by: Mike T | Nov 24, 2013 6:56:41 AM

I read the article about the Bobcats staff "listening to fans" I choked on my coffee. This franchise has been the most tone-deaf to the fans of any in history.

Posted by: Rodney Wilson | Nov 24, 2013 7:29:52 AM

^^^^since Jordan became majority owner there has been a huge difference. Taking surveys. Out in the community. Players with some character. Huge difference. Now he brings back the Hornets and the colors. Kudos Mr. Jordan.

Posted by: James | Nov 24, 2013 7:42:08 AM

Love this move. Not as big a fan of that cartoon logo, but we will see.

Posted by: Kemo | Nov 24, 2013 7:43:37 AM

I'm all for gorgeous girls dancing. But How about pull the throttle back on the house strippers aka lady cats? The topcats play it perfect, sexy but classy. Our nba team has slutty dancers. #keepitclassy

Posted by: Tim | Nov 24, 2013 8:18:16 AM

Anything that happened in Charlotte is our history.... Anything that happened in New Orleans is Pelican history. I mean Chris Paul's team records aren't coming here with the name! Lol, that would be stupid!

Posted by: Craig | Nov 24, 2013 8:24:39 AM

^^^^ completely different franchises. Nothing prior to 2004 has anything to do with this franchise. Just another reason why the clowns that campaigned for the name change should have cared more when the team was being moved.

New Orleans isn't going to just erase charlotte records from their franchise. What happens to guys like davis and mashburn who played in both cities?

delusional grown ass adults acting like kids caring about mascots and uniforms.

Posted by: charlottean | Nov 24, 2013 9:47:50 AM

It actually is pretty simple. A basketball team played in Charlotte from 1988-2002 and 2004-present. If it happened here, its ours.

Posted by: Matt | Nov 24, 2013 12:28:43 PM

Fleiter...you got it 100% right my man! Go Hornets!

Posted by: Hugo Panther | Nov 24, 2013 12:31:09 PM

^^^Sure. Delusional adults. You might want to pick up the Observer and check out the front page. Must be alot of "delusional" people out there. What is the Sunday circulation? The Hornets name means something here and only here. Why do you think Benson changed the name and MJ jumped all over it. Not too mention if it brings more people on board it is good for the team and can only help in the future. If you really want to see this team succeed in Charlotte, it is important!

Posted by: David | Nov 24, 2013 12:35:38 PM

YOU ARE AN ADULT WHO CARES ABOUT MASCOTS AND UNIFORM COLORS MORE THAN THE SPORT ITSELF. LOOK IN THE MIRROR.

13000 showed up wednesday night for a great game. even less friday night for a near incredible comeback.

there are kids that have bobcats posters on their walls and bobcats jerseys that they have to replace so you guys can live out your own childhood again because you can't get over it.

you all should have been more active in 2000-2002 when SOME people were trying to stop the move and force a sale. like sacramento did.

Posted by: charlottean | Nov 24, 2013 1:11:11 PM

you cannot mix match franchise records and achievements.

top 10 all-time scorers.....3 of them played here AND in new orleans.

what do you do with okafor? he played for both franchises. you going to flip flop his accomplishments?

they are 2 completely different entities altogether. re-branding doesn't erase history.

dell curry is the color analyst. he is not the all time leading scorer in this franchise. he IS, in new orleans. they change that and they're just making up the rules as they go.

at that rate....pistol pete would be the leading scorer in new orleans history. George Mikan would be a timberwolves legend.

it won't be the 80's and 90's again until management starts developing their draft picks and fans start learning about basketball and showing up to the arena.

Posted by: charlottean | Nov 24, 2013 1:21:53 PM

^^^you cant do both? Develop a team and bring the Hornets back? I go to games now, but bringing the Hornets back is a no brainer and if it gets more people excited about the team. Great. This is a great move by Jordan. Definitely should only be seen as a positive. You do realize the more people that jump on the band wagon, the more money they make, the more they can spend on player Devleopment or whatever. You have to work real hard to find something negative about this,

Posted by: Kemo | Nov 24, 2013 2:30:59 PM

"...Benson changed the name and MJ jumped all over it."

Funniest thing I've read in a good while!

"...MJ jumped all over it."

It would be almost impossible to write something more diametrically opposite to what really happened.

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Nov 24, 2013 2:37:59 PM

^^^From the former employee that never thought Jordan would change the name. Now that is what is really funny. Where is that list?

Posted by: Skip | Nov 24, 2013 3:08:49 PM

Season ends in April. MJ announces in May. Not fast enough? A little research and a post season announcement. Glad you know exactly what happened and exactly what MJ was thinking the whole time. As I said, need to work real hard to find something negative. Nice work Jerk.

Posted by: Kemo | Nov 24, 2013 3:15:20 PM

Name and colors are great to have. Best part is that they look to have the rebuilding process well underway.off to a good start for would will. Be an improved season. Should be playoff one just in take for the Hornets name to make a glorious comeback..

Posted by: Hornet Fan | Nov 24, 2013 3:20:37 PM

Number one story on the Observer Sunday edition. Sure looks like people care about this. Someone is delusional, but it is not the people that care about the Hornets coming back. Panthers game, college football, you name it, but the most viewed is what? Deal with it Haters.

Posted by: David | Nov 24, 2013 3:25:08 PM

Lets go Hornets. Bring back Hugo.

Posted by: Steven | Nov 24, 2013 3:26:57 PM

Nothing more ironic that NASTAR commenting on something he was completing wrong about. Again. Hey. How about those Panthers jackass!

Posted by: Bobnet | Nov 24, 2013 4:33:00 PM

kembo,

i'm not against the name change. I'm against grown ups caring about things like that. the kind of people that jump on the bandwagon are exactly what's wrong with this city. It's easily applicable to sports but you could apply it to a lot of businesses.

How many people went out and bought a food truck or opened up a tex mex restaurant? started flipping houses in the mid 2000s? or loan fraud as part of that? how about the crowd that was pro baseball uptown to the tune of 40+ million in cash and incentives going to a PRIVATE BUSINESS.

this city is filled with bandwagoneers and nobody should be catering to them.

and grownups shouldn't care what color shirts they wear and what the mascot is. it's NBA basketball. that other ish is for the kids......and the kids right now? spent the last 10 years cheering for the bobcats and had barely even heard of hornets before the name change was announced.

given the option between the 2 almost ANY charlottean is going to pick hornets, obviously.

but to campaign for it? become a fan because of it? somebody needs to grow the eff up.

Posted by: charlottean | Nov 24, 2013 4:49:42 PM

Hornets + 2014 Season = Playoffs. Rebuild complete.

Posted by: McBob | Nov 24, 2013 6:16:36 PM

Ya'll are funny...

His Minimumness screwed around with this for months and months and couldn't even make a decision without hiring Harris Interactive to tell him what was perfectly obvious to anyone with a pulse -- the fans wanted the name back...

...but ol' Air Min, he wasn't so sure.

On a separate topic, watching the Phoenix game the other night when Dragic and Shorty chased a loose ball out of bounds. Ref's couldn't decide who touched it last so they jumped it up.

This is when the Boob's play-by-play guy Steve Martin observed that the point guards rarely get to jump against each other and then he came with this beauty...

..."this jump is between Dragic who is 6'3" and Kemba who is, well, maybe 6-feet."

..."maybe"...or maybe not!

LOL, I could hear slurpers everywhere howling and calling for Steve's head to roll -- fire that guy Min Man!!

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Nov 24, 2013 6:50:02 PM

playoffs shouldn't be the goal. title contention should be.

we're getting handed an 8 seed that nobody wants this year. and we're the only team dumb enough to take it.

Posted by: charlottean | Nov 24, 2013 6:50:05 PM

"we're getting handed an 8 seed that nobody wants this year. and we're the only team dumb enough to take it."

Told ya so. Lousy management, they always blow it in the end.

"playoffs shouldn't be the goal. title contention should be."

Incorrect, your expectations are unrealistic. As long as His Minimumness is the owner, making the playoffs would be the best result we should realistically expect -- and history tells us even that is a stretch.

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Nov 24, 2013 7:06:10 PM

kemba is in no way shape or form 6 feet tall.

Posted by: charlottean | Nov 24, 2013 7:06:34 PM

Amazing how the goal changes when it is in sight. The team that will never make the playoffs might make it and now its a problem. Make the playoffs and orchestrate a trade when everyone else is tanking that will solidify this team for years. You heard it here first.

Posted by: McBob | Nov 24, 2013 8:33:09 PM

Jefferson can't be guarded in the post one on one. There can't be 3 other big man like it in the league. As he gets healthier and the team learns to play around him, they will only get better. I think people are underestimating this team. They are ahead of scheudle. Cool to watch and Clifford can coach.

Posted by: Hoopster | Nov 24, 2013 8:58:26 PM

McBob, the problem with your take is that we were a playoff team that was blown apart in the name of not being a perpetual 8th seed, only to routinely lose in the 1st round...

...His Minimumness promised that The Plan would lead to repeated forays deep into the playoffs -- hence, just making the playoffs isn't good enough, especially given all the pain that has been inflicted on us fans.

PS...as a realist, making the playoffs was enough for me, with current ownership just making the playoffs is a victory in itself.

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Nov 24, 2013 9:02:24 PM

A few interesting tidbits...

Walker said. ‘I’ve been losing for two years now. I’m sick of it. I’ve been winning my entire career and I want to get that feeling back.’”

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2013/09/kemba-walker-is-sick-of-losing-with-the-charlotte-bobcats/

-----------------

Charlotte Bobcats GM Rich Cho sent out a message not long after his team lost the chance to nab Anthony Davis with the No. 1 pick in next month's NBA draft.

"The last time we picked No. 2 we got Durant," he said.

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/7996057/michael-jordan-needs-sell-hornets-michael-kidd-gilchrist

---------------------

"With the addition of Al Jefferson, the Charlotte Bobcats now have the chance to officially become mediocre.

Last year they were atrocious, so this is a step up. But only the Bobcats can take a step up and head in the wrong direction."


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1694506-are-big-spending-bobcats-officially-out-of-the-2014-andrew-wiggins-sweepstakes

----------------

clttn, you'll like that 3rd one, fits perfectly with your thesis and was written back in July.

Cho shoulda kept his mouth shut, this time he got the currently 27th ranked small forward.

Now that he's past the midway point of his initial contract Kemba has to be thinking "what are my other options going forward", and surely his agent is in his ear on the subject.

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Nov 24, 2013 9:18:54 PM

he's not the 27th ranked small forward. he's 27th in espn PER which includes a few outliers who haven't clocked serious minutes and have bloated numbers playing on good teams. also includes nick young who is in no way shape or form a 3.

i'm thrilled if he finishes the year/starts next year as a top 20 small forward. the dude turns 21 NEXT September. if he's a top 5 small forward by the time he hits his prime, isn't that a complete success of a pick? top 25 player in the league, picked 2nd overall.

who are the top 5 3's right now? durant, lebron, carmello, george are the obvious ones.......after that there isn't a name that has a CLEAR CUT absolute no doubt about it advantage over MKG. there just isn't. there are luol deng's and rudy gays who are in their prime and clearly outperforming him NOW, there are parsons, leonards and batums who are a few years older and already entering their prime.....

but none of those dudes dominate MKG in head to heads and none of them would peak any gm's interest in a trade of MKG vs. _____. debatable at best.

you continually ignore the age factor. he's a KID competing with grown men and he's among the best already.

Posted by: charlottean | Nov 24, 2013 9:55:43 PM

Everyone knows that across the board the records stay with the franchise not the city. Get over it. This team is still the bobcats but with a much better name and jersey etc. The Charlotte hornets team died and went to New Orleans. Now they are the pelicans but they get to keep the records which is one perk to not starting from scratch with an expansion team. As a native charlottean and long time hornets fan and bobcats season tix holder I stil think this is the best move. Now, making the playoffs this year would be the bigger mistake.

Posted by: Homeless Rufus | Nov 24, 2013 10:05:23 PM

Holy crap dude. You are out of it. Did you really say Jordan blew up a playoff team? That was the ceiling for that team. It is more clear than ever now. All those guys are out of the league or getting bounced around. 3 years later they have a young team that might make the playoffs, cap space and extra picks. No guess work any more. Definitely the right move. Thank god he did it. There was one guy worth keeping, but not at 5 years and 15 mil. For all that is holy.

Posted by: McBob | Nov 24, 2013 10:25:57 PM

We went from 44 wins to 7, in the space of two seasons. Regardless of what you think the ceiling for that team was going forward, the only way to get to 7 from 44 is to BLOW UP the team. Dude, get a grip, deal with the facts.

clttn, the number I see next to MKG's name is 27.

Reality isn't something you are real big on so I know you skipped by all the details...

...Hollinger's model normalizes for all those minutes played, bloated due to good teams, etc, things you want to hang your false hopes one:

"Two important things to remember about PER are that it's per-minute and is pace-adjusted.

Because it's a per-minute measure, it allows us to compare, say, Steve Blake and Derek Fisher, even though there is a disparity in their minutes played.

I also adjust each player's rating for his team's pace, so that players on a slow-paced team like Detroit aren't penalized just because their team has fewer possessions than a fast-paced team such as Golden State."

http://espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2850240

Sure, no ranking system is perfect, but Hollinger's getting paid for his and as far as I can tell -- you're not.

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Nov 24, 2013 11:14:37 PM

you clearly don't understand how statistics work champ.

if michael beasley plays 30 minutes for phoenix last year vs. 15 minutes for miami this year........in which environment is he posting better numbers? did beasley just all of a sudden become 50% more efficient? or is it a product of his environment?

your argument is exactly the same like seeing the guy that plays 8 mpg and extrapolating his production out over 36 minutes. that's not accurate. guys return to the mean. numbers level out. just like there are guys playing 15 mpg with lower PERs than they would have if they were given a 25-35 mpg role.

pace doesn't adjust for having lebron, dwade, and bosh on the floor with you at the same time. and low minute count doesn't adjust for real game situations such as stamina, foul trouble, large leads or large deficits. pace also doesn't make nick young a small forward.

and again for the millionth time.......there are 30 starting jobs in the league. if a 20 year old is HOLDING DOWN one of those starting jobs......that dude is serious. look around the league.....how many 20 year olds you see starting? he's the 5th youngest in the league.

please show me all of the guys who started in the nba at age 19 and 20. and show me all those 19 year olds that had games of 25 and 12.

you want to use hollinger stats.....he's 21 in Value Added and that's BEFORE taking out the beasleys and outlaws. same with EWA.

are you suggesting he should be top 5 at age 20? he should be better than lebron, durant, george, and melo NOW, right?


and you keep coming back to the "demise" from the playoffs to 7 wins even though they made it very clear what the intention was (rebuild) when they traded wallace. rich cho said we're going to be bad to get high picks.

that part of the equation is not the problem. the jumping the gun this year is the problem.


the player formerly being used as bismack biyombo is 10th among centers in TS% and 15th in rebound rate and that is BEFORE removing the outliers that you love to include in there. rudy gobert does not lead the league in rebounding I can assure you of that. asik does....he's the exception to any outlier argument. that dude could play 5 minutes or 40 and produce at the exact same rate. not true for other players thats why chicago looked smart for letting him go and houston looked genius for giving him a shot last year.

turnover ratio......he's only 30th. and again, that's including outliers. and as bad as he is shooting free throws......kendrick perkins, andre drummond, deandre jordan, andrew bogut.......all worse.

i hate reality?

Posted by: charlottean | Nov 25, 2013 3:06:24 AM

Would have been nice if they nailed each draft, no team has gotten it perfect. They have played this rebuild well. Does not matter how many games you win during a rebuild. Especially if they make the playoffs in the 3rd year! How long will it take Philly, Orlando, Milwaukee, etc?

Posted by: Mugsy | Nov 25, 2013 6:44:53 AM

Does any other team any where have something that looks like 5 year old created it and should be shown on Saturday mornings for a logo.

I am fine with almost everything else. Love the Bobcats, but never liked that kitty kat either. But a smiling bug? Seriously. Someone has to be able to do better then that.

Posted by: John | Nov 25, 2013 6:51:09 AM

This is exactly why I was opposed to the name change. And contrary to Fleiter and all the others who think Johnson named the team after himself, that is idiotic. If there was no such thing as a bobcat, and if a bobcat had never been seen in the Carolinas, I'd buy the argument. Or if his name was Steve and he called them the Stevecats. Bot a bobcat is a real animal, and there are some around here (albeit mostly in the mountains). So stop the "Johnson named the team after himself" BS.

I have a better idea. How about moving the Pelicans team back here and moving the Bobcats to New Orleans? Then the Hornets become the NBA's version of the Raiders, who played 22 years in Oakland, 13 years in LA and the last 10 back in Oakland, and all the history is intact.

Posted by: J | Nov 25, 2013 8:14:29 AM

Of course I meant the Raiders have played the last 20 years in Oakland, not 10.

Posted by: J | Nov 25, 2013 8:16:59 AM

So simple...

Origianal team that was here from 1988 to 2002 is now in New Orleans and named the Pelicans. So, all of the team stats/records associated with that organization belong in New Orleans.

Anything tied to the Bobcats and the NEW Hornets team belongs here.

Posted by: Steve | Nov 25, 2013 9:01:19 AM

Based on other sports when a team leaves town regardless of name change whatever it always stays with that team.
Since Bobcats just rename to Hornets the records should be Bobcats forward only.

As for team so far this year. We may all be far ahead of it with hoping for playoffs. Many of these teams below us will not accept tanking and not making playoffs due to many things (not the elast of which is they already gave up there picks):
Nets, Knicks, Bullets, and Cavs to name a few.

Observations:
MKG- for yr 2 is coming along nicely. Awesome defender and small offensive game developing.
Kemba- looking good and at some point soon we need to lock him down at reasonable cost if we want to keep him.
Hendo- besides last game he has been a dud this year. Needs to start showing why we resigned him.
Big Al- looks as advertised and playing well when not hurt.
McBob- just love him and for some reason he get's no love from fans at game. For the price he is a steal.

Others:
Biz- what happened?? We giving up after 2 years one of which was strike shortened. I thought he was going to take along time to develope but wow. Well I guess trade him soon for something then. Bummer is I like him.
Adrien- surprise there but wow is he really an NBA center...
Sessions- trade him for value and pick.

Crazy thing everyone talks about us getting up to 3 picks next year. Bet you we only get 1 in Blazers. We just miss playoffs and give up our's and Detroit keeps there's.

Yes we picked wrong time to be decent enough to get to fringe of playoffs.

Posted by: Season Ticket holder for now | Nov 25, 2013 9:45:27 AM

we aren't even really THAT good yet. we are being inflated by other team's intentional failures.

the defense and ball control is real, but we are dead last in all shooting categories that matter.

we better not be giving up on biz. at 21....after the preseason he had? adrien is turning 28 this year. like i said earlier, if clifford continues that trend.....he's entering into larry brown territory.

henderson has had more than 1 good game thus far, he started out in a slump no doubt, but keep in mind we're early into the season....his 5th.....4th different coach for him. give him time to find the offense within the offense. this one wasn't catered to him and kemba the way the last one was.

Posted by: charlottean | Nov 25, 2013 12:00:02 PM

cltn, foolishly you continue to dwell on age, but since you insist, you tell me how many players were All-Stars before they were 27 (which is what you predicted for M-CSS-KG)...list must be into the hundreds.

The 44 to 7 comments were directed at McBob but good to know they got you agitated.

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Nov 25, 2013 12:11:08 PM

J, that is a TERRIFIC idea! Awesome idea!!

Ship the Boob's along with Air Min, Yes Co. & Cho down to New Orleans and call them anything you like. Bring OUR franchise home and rightfully call the them Hornets.

Then Charlotte could lay claim to all the Hornet franchise records since 1988, and...

...we could foist all of the "worst of NBA" records off onto poor ol' New Orleans!

You know, things like:
- single worst season in NBA history (out of 1334).
- worst overall win rate of any franchise in NBA history.
- shortest average coaching tenure in NBA history.
- worst record for retaining own draft choices, in NBA history.
- highest number of inept key employees with lifetime employment in NBA history.

You know things like this....get 'em outta here!

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Nov 25, 2013 12:20:42 PM

The uber-troll NASTAR99 reminds me of a certain teen girl from Mean Girls, with his constant parroting of his pet name for Jordan. Just stop, that ridiculous steam pile of a nickname is never going to work. No matter how many times you think you cleverly use it.

It's not clever, and its not factual.

If you guys want to argue with this waste of time, go right ahead. But he's a troll who claims to hate the NBA team in Charlotte, yet spends at least 4 hours a day writing comments in their section. He either works for the observer to keep trolling for comments, or he's the most pathetic person in the world. Either way his opinion is irrelevant.

Who owns the team financially is just about the least relevant item to consider when worried about records and history. If it happened in Charlotte, it's Charlottes record... story over.

Posted by: MuggsyBogus | Nov 25, 2013 2:14:35 PM

nobody asked how many people were all-stars before 27.....i asked starters at 19 and 20.


only reason i predicted he wouldn't be an all-star until 27 is because he plays the same position, in the same conference as lebron, carmelo, and paul george. they aren't putting 4 SFs on the all-star team. so he and the other 12 guys are competing for injury replacement spots. he gets traded out west, he's backing up durant by 24.


here's your list BTW

http://www.allstarnba.es/players/players-by-age.htm

63 players EVER all-stars at 22 or under. he's got this year and 2 more to be on that list. not probable, i'm just pointing it out.


I'm not obsessed with age, i'm pointing out the fact that there are 19 year olds eligible for high school basketball. you act as though age is irrelevant. like it has nothing to do with how good andre drummond is going to be at 25 compared to how he is now at 20. like josh smith now is exactly like josh smith at 20. MOST of the greatest players in the history of the game weren't even in the league at age 20 let alone starting their 2nd year AFTER winning a NCAA championship.

but yeah that age thing has nothing to do with anything and he'll never get any better from here right?

Posted by: charlottean | Nov 25, 2013 2:56:19 PM

Sure, he'll get better...

...but when a player shoots like he currently does it doesn't pay for you to get your expectations up too high.

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Nov 25, 2013 5:32:27 PM

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