December 12, 2013
On who the Bobcats must be, and the misguided path called tanking
Some thoughts on what might have been the Charlotte Bobcats’ worst performance of a young season:
-- The three people on this roster who might just shoot you out of a predicament were all bad tonight. Al Jefferson, Kemba Walker and Gerald Henderson shot a combined 11-of-42 against the Magic.
But, curiously, that is not why the Bobcats lost tonight. They lost because the thing that kept them bobbing around .500 disappeared: A genuine hunger to defend, then grab the ball to end a possession.
The Bobcats gave up 14 offensive rebounds and 17 second-chance points. That’s what gets you beat all the time against a good team. It sure got them beat against a bad team…no, a really bad team, Wednesday.
The Bobcats – who’ve been one of the NBA’s worst rebounding teams – did a phenomenal job early-season of limiting opposing teams to one shot. Tonight they were terrible in that regard.
The scoring/shooting issue isn’t going away. They must continue to be special defensively.
-- Tanking has become the trendiest discussion on Twitter. I don’t really get it. Sure, the 2014 draft is full of potentially good NBA players. Here’s the problem: LeBron no longer plays for Cleveland. Carmelo no longer plays for Denver. Even Chris Bosh is no longer a Raptor.
Collectively, how many of those players won titles for the teams that drafted them? Yeah, zilch.
-- Rookie Cody Zeller is still figuring it out, but I suspect he progressed tonight: He was 5-of-7 from the field with some moves off the ball-fake he didn’t demonstrate before.
He’s been passive offensively (elbow jumpers are good, only elbow jumpers are not) and bad defensively. Tonight he saw that Magic bigs couldn’t match his quickness, so he got to the rim. If he has the “basketball IQ” he’s labeled to have, this will register.
Posted by Observer Sports on December 12, 2013 at 01:00 AM | Permalink
genius they ravamped the cba and free agent max contracts AFTER those guys skipped town.
you draft a guy you get 4 years plus a restricted free agent status where a guy has to turn down SIGNIFICANT money to go elsewhere. and the market dried up on big market teams being able to pull off multiple max contracts. i don't know where you have been while you were supposed to be covering the nba.
miami drafted wade. and chalmers. and haslem. and cole. bosh and bron don't go to miami otherwise. you win championships IN THE DRAFT. detroits 2004 season is the only exception. every other championship since guys were wearing speedos has been won in the draft.
glad to know you strive for 8th place. great strategy.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 12, 2013 3:20:42 AM
let me add on - rose, durant, westbrook, george, wall, noah, parker, duncan, dirk (tech), kobe (tech), curry, rondo, gasol (tech), rubio, love, etc. etc. etc.
all still playing for the team that drafted them. i have the exact same number of championship rings as carmello and dwight and chris paul combined.
and as much as you hate to admit it, zeller is absolutely backing up his draft status with his play of late. that baseline spin move and dunk was ATROCIOUS. if he was on a team that wasn't striving for mediocrity, he'd be in the drivers seat for ROY. instead he plays 18 mpg and gets no calls.
that dude is a PLAYER only in charlotte do draft picks that good get booed on draft night and ruined during rookie scale contracts by bad coaching.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 12, 2013 3:30:29 AM
Calm down charlottean. Zeller is a waste of time as I stated before. Alligator arms, horrible on defense, and weak down low for his position. He's 22 so you can't use the youth excuse. One good game against a team that was finishing up an 11 game road trip doesn't cut it for someone drafted FOURTH OVERALL IN THE FIRST ROUND. Same goes for MKG. Same goes for Biyombo. All terrible draftees picked too early.
If championships are won through the draft, then this team will never see one with Cho and company here. They continue to whiff in the first round. NASCAR maybe annoying, but he's right in the regards that this front office cannot evaluate talent and draft solidly.
Posted by: D.W.G. | Dec 12, 2013 6:19:57 AM
MKG and Biz would have made a big difference in a game like that. They lack in certain areas, but energy is not one of them.
Also, what happened to Taylor in the second half. Re-injured?
Posted by: Jamie | Dec 12, 2013 7:31:19 AM
I agree totally w DWG. Cho has no clue how players fit together bc he doesn't understand bb fundamentals . Kemba at pt gd is a total waste . He's not the pt gd of the future . Every night he gets abused in crunch time by the opposing pt gd . Nelson 12 points in the 4 th q. Whc is his average . Teams look to put him in the pick and roll or take him off the dribble for penetrtration in the lane . Jefferson is a terrible help defender . The wings will continue to shoot poorly until they get occasionally get easy buckets at points in the game . This clown Kemba has 4 assists w 5 turnovers never passing to anyone . Get a point gd who can defend and pass first . Every team in the league abuses him in the 4 th quarter .
Posted by: Iron man | Dec 12, 2013 7:35:03 AM
You people giving Cho a hard time must live in a hole in the woods. He is one of the highest regarded GM's in the league. He has placed us in a fantastic position to succeed. As we know too well in CLT, just because you have the worst team, you are not guaranteed the #1 pick. You can't blame draft position on the GM. If the ball goes another way, you guys are calling him a genius.
It was one bad game. Last year we strung these outings together, sometimes for weeks. It will not happen this season.
Posted by: Go Cats! | Dec 12, 2013 8:15:39 AM
Zeller just turned 21 a month ago! So YES you can still play the "youth excuse"... Bill Simmons tried to use that 22 number the other day to suggest similar things about Cody... The dude is going to be a stud. Kemba and Biz struggled to be leaders on a 7 win team. MKG was drafted onto another bad team and expected to be as good as Anthony Davis... Zeller is in the perfect spot. We have Big Al, Biz, and McBob to play in front of him so he can learn the game, and out of all our draft picks he is the least flawed, oversized, and fundamentally sound player weve got!
Posted by: RobertKatz | Dec 12, 2013 8:40:31 AM
That game was hard to watch, especially after the high energy win over Golden State. I don't think the sky is falling though.
Posted by: apauldds | Dec 12, 2013 8:55:14 AM
Last night Herderson, Walker, Gordon and Sessions played 111 minutes of game time and shot a frosty 13-45 or 28.8%. There was no shooting from the guard position last night in the starting line up or off the bench.
Terrible game. Burn the tape.
Posted by: Charlie B | Dec 12, 2013 9:20:27 AM
Iron Man: I think you have some valid points, but Kemba is a great scorer and team leader, evident from the win over Steph Curry and Golden State on Monday.
I DO think the Bobcats need to let Sessions walk and draft a tall, pass first PG with the Portland or Detroit picks. Someone to come off the bench for 6-10 assist and a good deep range shooter, who can guard bigger mismatches. Ron Baker from Witchita State is ranked 35th on ESPN's Big Board. He is a high IQ, 6'3 elite shooter who can play PG and SG... sounds too good to be true. Vasilije Micic from Serbia is ranked 38th, 6'4, good shooter, crafty and creative passer.... One of these guys with the Portland pick (30) along with a scoring SG or SF like Wayne Seldon, Gary Harris, James Young, Rodney Hood, even Doug McDermott!
Posted by: RobertKatz | Dec 12, 2013 9:24:02 AM
You have two ways of getting good players in the NBA -- drafting them or getting them in free agency. The latter isn't much of an option for a team like Charlotte. Unless we get a solid draft pick this year, we'll be back to where we were in 2010: not good enough to be good and not bad enough to get good.
Posted by: GJ | Dec 12, 2013 9:24:29 AM
Agree 100% with Charlottean- The new CBA will make it even harder for a star to leave the team that drafted them and for every Carmelo & Lebron that left the original team they played for you can counter with Dirk, Duncan, Durant, etc, etc.
The best strategy was to tank. This isnt a 1 player draft like the Anthony Davis draft, this is a draft full of potential superstars. At worst you are going to see multiple players from this draft play in many all star games.
If tanking wasn't the right play, why are sooooo many teams doing it? including the former GM of the year that just took over the Raptors?
We needed just 1 more bad year and we could have been set for a decade... Instead we got Al Jefferson and a team just good enough to sneak into the playoffs in a year when only a few teams in the East really want to make it.
Posted by: Season Ticket Holder | Dec 12, 2013 9:30:23 AM
I just read the title again...."Misguided path called tanking"
Rick, if it's misguided- why are so many GM's doing it?
Posted by: Season Ticket Holder | Dec 12, 2013 9:32:05 AM
This team barely making the playoffs and getting swept in the 1st round by Miami or Indiana was and is a stupid idea. When they traded away Gerald and that crew they said the plan was to rebuild and asked us to be patience...then the year before what is a loaded draft they decide to build a team that is basically just a younger version of the 8th seeded at best team they broke up to get here. One more year of being bad a getting a good pick is the best thing this team could've done for the future.
So we sneak into the playoffs this year we the majority of the teams in the East are tanking and we get swept...then what we still lack the one thing you need to be relevant in the NBA a franchise/star player. So our future consist of a PG thats likes to shoot but not a high pct., a #2 overall pick that cant shoot and isnt a scorer, a 7ft #4 overall pick that doesnt play in the post and is an OK player at best,a Center in Biz that is now reduced to a bench role and will never be an offensive threat and a guy we paid $13 mil to that is getting older and has never helped a team win anything of importance.
If say atleast 2 teams in the East like a Milwaukee or Toronto especially w/ the moves they are making get some of those top draft picks we probably wouldnt even make the playoffs again next year!!
This team thru away the future on a rush decision that only puts playoff $$ in MJ's pocket and satisfies come lately fans but does absolutely nothing for making us releveant for the next 5-10 yrs.
Posted by: Toriano | Dec 12, 2013 10:09:10 AM
you guys that are down on zeller and MKG have a rude awakening coming.........those are by far and above the most talented dudes on the roster. and as mentioned above...zeller just turned 21. and he's all of.......a month and a half into his rookie season in the nba and he's giving you 10-6-2-1-1 in 15 minutes and you aren't impressed? OK.
ironman - jefferson is the only one that doesn't fit, but he's also only on a 2-3 year contract. mkg/zeller/biz fit together fine as a front court.....eerily similar to gay/randolph/gasol if randolph was a more defensive minded player. none of those guys were winning until they hit their mid-late 20's. then they had a nice run before the genius that is john hollinger decided to dismantle a contender and not renew the coaches contract. brilliant. how's that GM efficiency rating?
look - i'm not pro-tanking in the sense of breaking up a good thing in hopes of landing something better. but we DO NOT HAVE a good thing right now. we won't finish above .500 and that's WITH OUR RECORD BEING INFLATED by all the teams that ARE tanking intentionally (i'm looking at you toronto and philly).
you have to be following some sort of model or you're saying to history "yeah, sure I know there's a few different ways that have worked continually over time - but my way, the way that has never worked.......is WAY better"
good luck with that mindset ever getting anywhere. only way you win a championship or CONTEND for a championship is through drafting and developing top end talent. we've done FINE with our draft picks over the years. none of them weren't mcdonald's all americans. many of them were ncaa 1st team all americans (there's only 5 a year) and many won national championships. many were projected right where we took them, some higher, some a few spots lower, but NEVER did people on draft night lose their ish because we drafted anthony bennett number one or dion waiters number 4 when there were clear talents left on the board.
only in charlotte did people react poorly to the zeller pick. league-wide, people were applauding cho for grabbing EASILY the most talented big man in this draft class for a franchise that needed more big men - especially a long term solution at the 4.
you guys clearly aren't watching the games if you think that kid can't play. only thing he needs is more touches and more minutes. people mad at him taking all the elbow jumpers are going to love him when he's 25 and that just DESTROYS defenses because they can't guard that AND guard off the dribble AND stop biz from having wide open dunks. and it's not his fault that his teammates (i'm looking at you sessions) don't give him the ball in ANY other position even though he's a whiz on the block and tries to post up several times a game.
that dude is a PLAYER.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 12, 2013 10:17:12 AM
Just a bunch of dreamers on this thread.
If ANY of you have hopes of Charlotte winning a NBA Title, please get drug tested IMMEDIATELY! Never, EVER, EVER happening! It takes real money, and you'll never get an Owner here that has it.
Cho acquires talent through shrewd trades and smart free agent signings. Flash Gordon and his $12 million comes off the books this coming summet. Drafting a Shooting Guard, or even signing a restricted free agent (Gordon Heyward), acquiring another front Court BIG...all these things make the Hornets competitive on an annual basis.
Don't expect to see the Hornets in the NBA Finals...unless you just like to be let down. If that is the case, Kate Upton will be knocking on your door in 3...2...1...
Posted by: Something is abuzz in the Queen City | Dec 12, 2013 10:20:32 AM
thanks for not speaking factually.....
how high is indiana's payroll this year?
how about OKC's the last several years?
how about portland this year?
these are contenders who aren't spending. no, they haven't won it - yet, but they are right there in the mix. if that isn't the goal, then why bother having the franchise? spending is not the problem, management is. player personnel, player development, coaching carousel. look at the top 8 teams in payroll this year.....how are new york, brooklyn, toronto, lakers, chicago, and boston doing?
facts are NOT the enemy people.
you guys care more about what color the jersey is and what the mascot is than you do whether the team is any good.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 12, 2013 10:39:20 AM
Hey Charlottean, take you head and remove it from your redneck fanny!
Have you seen evidence of a NBA title hear since the NBA took up residence in the late 80's? You want to compare the front office of Indiana's to that of Charlotte's? Do you want to compare the Ownership of Indiana's to that of Charlotte's? What gets me is that you believe you somehow think you are special in the Queen City and that the playing field is level.
Oh sure, but you would have thrown away a perfectly good playoff team, which included a good chemistry mix a few years back, ALL for years of losing...and returning to this. The fact remains, LeBron is not coming to your front door here at Time Warner Cable Arena...unless it is in another team's uniform. So, get it through your thick skull that you lost the Civil War AND Charlotte is NOT going to the NBA Finals...EVER!!!
You want to compare Charlotte to these other teams? You don't have any history or superstar player on your side. Great drafting, too. Would you like a reminder?
Let's go with the Bobcats, shall we?
Emeka, Sean May, Adam Morrison, Jared Dudley, D.J., Alexis, Gerald (not anything to write home about), and even Raymond.
Heck, we can talk about the superstars that HAD to be traded by the Hornets, all because they could NOT afford them...like Zo. Perhaps we can mention, Rex the King, bad back Grandmama, Greg Graham and Scotty Burrell...who could forget George Zidek?
Oh, and that Vlade Divac trade is still paying dividends...for the Lakers. Let us not forget about Kirk Haston, Ricky Davis, or Tony Delk, either.
Face it, Loser Charlottean...the city was excited when it reached the Second Round of the playoffs! If the "New" Hornets can reach the same "lofty" heights, in fact, even make it to the Conference Finals, that's victory enough.
You're a geek and you chase after homecoming queens and girls out of your league! Sorry, but keep it in perspective, because Charlotte FINALLY just signed 1, yes 1 BIG free agent!!! Think you're special? You can't draft, and you can't keep All-Star players from leaving. Make the playoffs, win a few series, and then change your expectations, Charlottean. Sheesh!
Posted by: Something is abuzz in the Queen City | Dec 12, 2013 11:25:58 AM
they got glen rice for alonzo. last I checked glen rice was a superstar.
last I checked jamal mashburn, baron davis, were absolutely on par with johnson and mourning.
the draft picks we've had weren't the problem, it's what we did with them AFTER they were drafted that kept them from being successful. development is everything. what's the difference between derrick williams in minny and derrick williams in sacramento?
you're making the point that management has been repeatedly effing up for the bobcats - to which i agree wholeheartedly. but to say that we should lower our expectations instead of demanding better is absolutely backwards.
conference finals would be contention (that's final 4 teams) and we aren't going to get that far until we start developing our draft picks. you can't slap together a couple mediocre free agents and expect it to work.
they gotta build around mkg/zeller/biz and add a top 10 pick in this year's draft to that mix. take the other 2 picks and use them to upgrade another player via trade.
why the eff would you recommend lowering expectations? sure i'll go out and start banging 4's and get a BS 9-5 with no future. awesome, that sounds like ambition.
you draft a guy or guys and develop them, you can contend.
san antonio never spends big money on payroll. and they've won how many championships? you don't see guys leaving san antonio and getting their big break elsewhere. no it's guys leaving elsewhere and getting their big break in san antonio. it's san antonio drafting no-names and developing them.
why the eff would you want to lower expectations? no championships were built off a free agency signing. lebron doesn't go to miami if wade wasn't drafted there first and already won a ring there. had he not won a ring, they're all going to cleveland or new york.
championships are won in the draft. we are playing ourselves out of a great draft class so that we can have a mediocre record and an inflated playoff seeding.
we add one more young piece to the puzzle (especially the right one) and we look like indiana or OKC or chicago.
and yeah for the geniuses who aren't good at math - we CAN afford to keep them because nobody can afford to pay the tax anymore. and now after what's happening in brooklyn and new york - nobody will. even miami's amnestying mike miller and trying to dump joel anthony on somebody.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 12, 2013 11:42:05 AM
Charlottean, you know what realize about you? You are STILL a little baby, in that you have to win it all or you aren't playing the game. Well, dirty diaper boy, you're going to continue to be pretty disappointed in life when you have that attitude.
Bonnell is correct, in that the Charlotte Franchise should jump on the other team's stupidity when other organizations want to trade proven players for unproven potential. This is what Cho is good at and this is what will keep Charlotte in the playoffs for many years to come. Once other players realize that Charlotte is a perennial playoff team, they will decide to come here. As of now, just win 1 playoff game!
Posted by: Something is abuzz in the Queen City | Dec 12, 2013 11:49:21 AM
Having high draft picks is not the same as tanking. Also, having high draft picks does not guarantee success.
Teams get good draft picks either because they were simply bad (which often happens without any tanking, or losing on purpose), or by trading for those picks.
I posted this I don't know how many times before: many teams got good lottery picks by trading for them.
They didn't tank. They traded.
You can either package lower draft picks for a higher one, or, you package players and/or draft pick(s) for a higher pick.
Every year, teams do that.
The greatest examples are the draft picks the Lakers traded for, and became Magic Johnson and Kobe Bryant.
I mentioned recently Enes Kanter, that Utah got by trading for that pick (3rd overall in 2011).
Here are other examples of players that teams acquired through the draft, by trading - NOT by tanking: Tyson Chandler (2nd overall in 2001, to Bulls), Pau Gasol (3rd overall in 2001, to Raptors).
They won championships, but not with their original teams, just like LeBron and Bosh; and, their original teams got them by trading, not tanking.
Other examples: Bulls got Luol Deng (7th in 2004), Portland got LaMarcus Aldridge (2nd in 2006) and Damian Lillard (6th in 2012), the Cavs got Kyrie (1st overall in 2011).
All these were through trades, not their original draft picks.
And the flip side: you can also get high draft picks and mess up. It happens all the time, including with picks traded for.
Pistons got the 2nd overall in 2003 from the Grizzlies, and used it for Darko Milicic. The Mavs got the 5th pick in 2004 from the Wizards and used it on Devin Harris.
Players they traded for were crucial for the championship teams of the Mavs (Dirk - draft day trade from the Bucks - and Chandler) and Heat, not Pistons only.
No way Kobe (13th pick overall, traded from the Hornets) would've won all his rings without Shack (from Orlando), and then Pau Gasol (from Memphis).
- - -
The Bobcats got plenty of high draft picks - just by being a weak team, not by tanking - but that didn't make them contenders.
Their best achievement, in 2010, was due to trades for veterans; among the starters, only Felton and Gerald Wallace were original Bobcats.
You can complain about management decisions, and lack of patience with the youth movement that Bernie Bickerstaff started from the beginning of the franchise. That's fine.
But, you also have to see other franchises who had repeated high draft picks, and still are not top teams in their conferences: Cavaliers, Wizards, Sixers, Trail Blazers, etc.
You cherry pick those who were successful with drafted players.
But you're missing (a) that some teams got their good draft picks by trading, and (b) that not always the high draft picks result in success.
Do the smart trades (for players, as well as for better draft picks), and no tanking will be needed.
[Also, if you come into free agency as a playoffs team (any year, not 2014 only), not as losers, chances are you become a more attractive destination for free agents.]
Players and coaches want to play to win, and no tanking theory can justify going against this healthy instinct, which is at the core of any sports competition.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 12, 2013 11:49:23 AM
1. Their guards absolutely destroyed ours last night. This is a huge problem that won't go away until we upgrade at least one of them.
2. Charlottean, give him a medal for his efforts, consistently tells you guys to hang in there with MKG and Biz but you guys are too… impatient to pull the blinders off. Both those guys are going to be huge cornerstones and I hope they are both in Charlotte for a long time to come.
3. Surprisingly this isn't discussed more in this forum but I think it's pretty clear that we finally made the right coaching hire for once.
Posted by: The Dark Knight | Dec 12, 2013 11:55:31 AM
By Gerald Wallace being an "original Bobcat" I meant, evidently, that he was an expansion draft player, and so, he was with our team from its beginning.
But of course, his first team was Sacramento, which drafted him. (It's a special situation, involving two kinds of draft and no trade).
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 12, 2013 11:56:34 AM
Something is abuzz your an idiot lol... Everything you said about the past is correct but that is the past and the NBA today is diff't then the NBA back then. if we would've hit on 1 or 2 of those high draft picks which we've blown everyone we've had as the Bobcats in my opinion then you have a team that can contend. You act as if it cant be done, you know why Indiana is good cuz Paul George turned into a star the same Paul George that fell to them at #10 in the draft...now does that make their front office brillant or does it count as mistakes by the 9 picking prior to them?? They also got a compotent 7ft guy in Hibbert whom we actually wanted to draft that year but he was snatched 1 pick before us and we ended us w/ that stud Alexis Ajinca...again is that good management on their part??
If you can hit the draft jackpot on 1 star your fortunes can change quick in the NBA and if you can hit twice you are setup nicely. We havent in the past and neither Zeller or MKG is anything more than role players but unless we have a team that can truly compete to get to the 2nd rd of the playoffs we should be constantly trying to add high picks and cap space. And if you dont think so you clearly have no idea how the NBA works. The NBA has way too many teams in their playoffs and constantly competing to be a 7th or 8th seed is the definition of a treadmill. You are going nowhere without a star and a city like Charlotte isnt getting one thru Free Agency so we're gonna have to draft one, keeping trying til we get it right...
Posted by: Toriano | Dec 12, 2013 11:58:53 AM
obviously we could have traded for a higher draft pick. instead of 2 mediocre picks that we got from portland for wallace, we should have gotten the pick THEY got for him. no doubt.
but all those guys you named......those teams gave up a superstar or top draft pick to get that top pick. so i'm all for trading jefferson for a high pick if that's what we're talking about. if someone would bite on walker (they won't) or anybody really......sure.
kyrie was baron davis. noah and aldridge were eddy curry. gasol was drafted by the HAWKS and traded immediately for abdur-rahim in his prime. kanter was williams. as was favors.
a whole other slew of guys like darko were from deals where the protections wore off and the pick happened to be a steal.
and trading for a top pick in THIS draft? not an option.
we're talking about 2 scenarios:
1 - win 35 games and pick either 1-3 or 8-10.
2 - win 39 games and not have a lottery pick and get swept in the first round by miami, indiana, or whatever mediocre team makes the biggest trade to grab the 3/4 spots.
this shouldn't even be debatable as far as which route wins us more games next year and the year after and the year after and the year after. it's completely illogical to go all in on the group that we have right now unless you are 100% positive that zeller and mkg and biz are future cornerstones in the making and that their development will in no way be harmed by them playing limited minutes in the interest of winning a few more games this year.
and there's no precedent for guys developing with limited minutes. there are guys that played limited minutes and then went elsewhere and got a chance, but there aren't many guys who played behind vets for 3 or 4 years and then took over and were the man. utah tried that route waiting 2 years and now favors and kanter look like rookies. we're talking about #3 picks in their 3rd and 4th year in the same front court and they're forming the worst team in the league. only reason it's going to work out is because they'll have a guaranteed top 5 pick coming in this summer.
so yeah if we can trade for a top pick and keep the pedal to the metal......by all means do it. but those deals aren't out there laying around in THIS current nba and definitely not in THIS draft class.
it shouldn't be debatable which route is better. now after this season? we need to have the pedal to the metal for the next 10 years. but we need one more horse in the stable.
and we could win the same number of games with walker/henderson/mkg/zeller/biyombo playing as we will with walker/henderson/tolliver/mcroberts/jefferson playing.
and one has a longer lasting positive effect on the franchise and the other is SHORT TERM.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 12, 2013 12:27:29 PM
Cody Zeller is probably the player with the highest upside on our current roster.
The team was bad last night.
Cody played well. The team shot 37% from the field. Cody attacked in the paint, and scored at better than 70% from the field!
The team gave up too many offensive rebounds to the Magic. Cody took 6 rebounds in just 15 minutes, 5 of them being defensive rebounds.
He has the skills, the intelligence and the athleticism to become one of the best power forwards in this league. All he needs is to get stronger in the next few seasons; he's 21 years old, and he'll get there (to be a high caliber PF).
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 12, 2013 12:33:19 PM
needs playing time and touches too. same goes for MKG and biz. they could ALL get there if they were developed properly.
stir in a guy like exum or smart?
or we could just ruin the trio we have, pass on any of the top flight young'ns coming in june, extend mcroberts, make some dumb trade/signing of a 30 year old and settle into a few first round sweeps.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 12, 2013 12:44:25 PM
Before those trades, Baron Davis was already endlessly getting injured, Eddy Curry was already a disappointment; he never became the star he was expected to be.
In this upcoming draft I suppose nobody will give up one of the top 4 or 5 picks. But from 5, or at least 6 and under, it should be all open, because there we're not talking about superstars, just about players with very good potential, who come around in every draft.
Nobody knows at this time what king of trades our management can pull in 2014 (either for players, or for a better draft pick).
But I know that we have a management that, as a rule, is very active on the trades front.
You don't know, and I don't know, who could be offered as trade bait before this draft.
But we know that many times trades are lop-sided; they benefit one team, and make you wonder about the other side's management. Yeah, I know, the Cats too have been on the wrong side of such trades a few times; but they also have pulled some really good trades, that improved the team.
And I mentioned it before: many of the best trades are unexpected, they have little in common with the fans' wild imagination (which offers us new trade scenarios almost every day). They can be, of course, multi-team deals.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 12, 2013 1:32:02 PM
Josh McR is a real asset to the team.
Not a star, but a great asset, as an all-around skilled, hard-working, glue guy, and he's just 26 years old (about the same as Hendo).
The only dumb thing would be not to renew him past his current contract.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 12, 2013 1:44:44 PM
Why is it so bad to sneak into the playoffs? If I recall correctly Indiana missed the playoffs several years straight and finally got back as the 8th seed in 2011. They lost in 5 to the Bulls. That experience certainly hasn't left them miring in low seed playoff hell.
Posted by: apauldds | Dec 12, 2013 1:49:50 PM
and still it remains........
win 35 games and have the pick, or win 39 and not have the pick. that's the argument boiled down.
and we know right now that there are 6 legit prospects in wiggins, parker, randle, embiid, smart, and exum. but a lot of people are warming to hood after that arizona game. and we haven't even talked about the euro prospects like saric or hezonja who will surely go later but only because they will have to be waited on.
so again it's.......pick or no pick which is more valuable. and if it's via trade.....keep in mind that means giving something up. and we don't really have any superfluous trade assets other than jefferson unless someone would rather have walker and we could land smart or exum in exchange (i prefer exum as a 2 personally - especially alongside walker).
pick or no pick. there's no scenario here where no pick is better. there just isn't. not unless we're talking about playoff revenue, but that's short sighted compared to multiple playoff rounds in the future.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 12, 2013 1:55:55 PM
milwaukee snuck into the playoffs last year, how's that working out? how about utah from 2 years ago?
indiana didn't sneak into the playoffs. they were supposed to be there. that's why the fired o'brien because the team was underachieving.
the experience is only valuable if it's given to the guys that are going to be here long term. if we're playing a series against miami or indiana and we're playing mkg, biz, zeller, kemba, taylor, henderson heavy minutes.......that's valuable. but do you really think that's how it goes? we've been down this road before with larry brown......
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 12, 2013 2:41:02 PM
The fans had been very excited when we made the playoffs in 2010. What didn't go down well was, evidently, the first round sweep.
This season we have a chance to make the playoffs as a 5th or 6th seed; then, in a playoffs series against a 3rd or 4th East seed, anything can happen...
As for improving from that point on (including through the draft), that's what my previous posts were about.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 12, 2013 4:30:49 PM
Sandy here's the problem w/ your last post. This year is kinda fool's gold, even if we get in as a 5th or 6th seed we are not the the 5th or 6th best team in the East...Several teams (Bos, Orl, Mil, Tor etc) are basically waving the white flag on this year cuz lets face it nobody in the East is beating Miami unless its Indiana and they are planning for the future. If 2 of those teams get say picks in the top 5 then they are adding cornerstone players then next year we are right back out of the playoffs...then whats the plan!?? We sucked to get better, except we only got slightly better arguably right back in the same position we were in prior to trading everyone from the playoff team just younger but what would be the next move after that?
We basically went away from the "plan" they said they would use and sold out for maybe 1 year of a 1st rd playoff exit....
I personally just dont think its worth it...the bobcats were broke, now they're leaving paycheck to paycheck which is an improvement on being broke, but they dont have any money in the bank if that analogy makes sense
Posted by: Toriano | Dec 12, 2013 4:58:20 PM
They were merely imitating the Panthers play in New Orleans. Is it just me, or do our two major league teams tend to frequently decide to "take the games off". It seems to me that a common trait of consistently good teams is that they come to every game mentally, and physically prepared to compete. Does not appear that our teams have ever reached that level yet.
Posted by: Richard Ferrell | Dec 12, 2013 5:52:26 PM
The difference in rebounding wouldn't have been so noticeable if we hadn't shot so poorly. That gave Orlando lots of extra defensive rebounds. Otherwise, they had 5 extra offensive rebounds than us, which is nothing compared to the fact that we shot 36 % from the field and 23 % from three. I was an English major, so I am as into themes as the next guy, but winning at a high level is not just about defense and rebounding.
At some point you have to score. Shooting 36 % from the field and 23 % from three is never going to get it done. Indiana is known to win with defense, but even in their win against the Heat the other night, they shot 50 % from the field and 33 % from 3.
Last night was one of those nights when our three best offensive players went cold. That's why we lost the game.
Posted by: Jeff | Dec 12, 2013 7:38:02 PM
Cho worked for 3 teams in the space of 12 months.
The Thunder declined to retain him, the Blazers fired him, and then he accepted a contract from Air Minimum to come work for the WORST franchise in NBA HISTORY -- he has to be the lowest paid guy in his peer group.
These ARE NOT the characteristics of "one of the most respected GM's" in the NBA. This DOES describe a guy who is hanging on by his fingernails to stay in the league.
Looks like the Boob's just signed their very own Chris Smith!
Hey clttn, still think nobody would trade for Brook Lopez? #1 ranked center!!!
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Dec 12, 2013 10:15:25 PM
Comments on Cho are not fair. Was the number 2 guy at one of the best run teams. Was hired away for a bigger job by another team. Getting fired by Paul Allen isn't exactly abnormal. Now what he is doing in Charlotte would be nice to know. He is pretty much off the radar. I remember hearing why the hired him, but I have not heard much since.
Posted by: Nelson | Dec 13, 2013 6:35:22 AM
We have been telling Cho to get Kyke Lowery for two yrs . Now he's about to go to Nyc for Felton . 15 pts 7 asst,4 Rebs , 2 steals . As a very good defender who can create . Cho is an idiot . Total upgrade at pt gd bc he would hold up in big games and playoffs . Kemba would get totally abused providing zero easy buckets . Teams look to put Kemba in the pick and roll whc he can't defend . Watch tonight .
Posted by: Iron man | Dec 13, 2013 7:57:07 AM
^^^Do you know how the pick and roll even works? If Kemba can't defend they would iso him all day which has rarely happened this year. He has held up very well one on one against some very good point guard. Great X-mas gift for this guy would be basketball for dummies if anyone knows him.
Posted by: Robert | Dec 13, 2013 9:56:28 AM
"Tanking has become the trendiest discussion on Twitter. I don’t really get it. Sure, the 2014 draft is full of potentially good NBA players. Here’s the problem: LeBron no longer plays for Cleveland. Carmelo no longer plays for Denver. Even Chris Bosh is no longer a Raptor.Collectively, how many of those players won titles for the teams that drafted them? Yeah, zilch."
How does that even make it onto the website?
Hilarious that you conveniently left out Dwyane Wade, who has won 3 titles with Miami, the team that drafted him. Probably because it didn't fit your narrow argument.
How about that Michael Jordan guy? 6 titles with Chicago.
Tim Duncan? 4 titles with San Antonio.
Hakeem? 2 titles with Houston.
Dirk and Pierce? A title each with Dallas and Boston respectively.
There's nothing wrong with tanking to draft a superstar. There's something wrong though if you can't build a title contender or win a title with that superstar.
Posted by: Jay | Dec 13, 2013 10:28:50 AM
kyle lowry is NOT an upgrade over kemba walker.
and Jay - you're saying everything I already said. i used to defend bonnell, now i can't figure out how he covers the NBA for a living and yet knows so little about it.
of the last 20 champions, only the 2004 detroit pistons weren't built in the draft by a top 10 pick. and I would imagine that's the only contender of the bunch too. all those seattle, utah, new jersey teams of the 90's and turn of the millennium were. okc, chicago, indiana of recent were. the old knicks teams with ewing and they moved a lot of other draft picks for other pieces.
show me all the great teams of pieced together veteran cast offs. detroit is the ONLY ONE. and even they had prince, hunter, and okur in the rotation. they turned jerome williams into corliss williamson. they got richard hamilton by trading jerry stackhouse who they got from philly for theo ratliff who they drafted.
they got ben wallace and chucky atkins for grant hill (who they drafted). they got rasheed for a couple 1st rounders and former 1st rounders and misc players.
only guys from their rotation that they signed as a free agent was elden campbell and chauncey billups. everything else originated from the draft. and they are the exception that didn't draft the superstar that led them to the championship.
right so........we're just going to continue the argument that the draft doesn't matter even though there's NO EVIDENCE of it? ok sure, continue.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 13, 2013 1:05:02 PM
Again you're missing all about trading up in the draft. I commented on that at length, you actually answered me, then I answered your comments (including your doubts) on this issue - and now behold, it vanished, it doesn't exist.
Well, it exists, every year.
Drafting high is not the same as tanking.
The Bobcats can package draft pick(s) and/or player(s) and get a high draft pick next year. Besides the top 4 (or, at most 5), nobody is such a can't-miss super-dee-duper player that you can't trade for him. Players with very good potential? Yes. Superstars from 5 (or 6) and lower? No.
You can actually have some nasty surprises, when it comes to NBA playing, with any of those high rated kids, besides the consensus top three. Why? Experience shows disappointments happen, often. And, as always, lower draft picks can turn into high performers.
Our team was improved enough this year that having such a horrible record, that will give a high probability to stumble upon one of those top three studs in the lottery, is already precluded. You and some others may not like this situation, I'm glad about it, and so are most fans, for all I can tell. But anyway, this is a fact. This team was not built to tank this season.
Also, those who keep praying to the Losers' God, don't seem to understand that tanking, or not, is decided by managements in the off-season. It's about how a team is built. An exception to this rule is Toronto; they made a mistake to take over Rudy Gay's bloated contract, and now they corrected it, and weakened their team in the process.
But regardless of management planning, players and coaches of teams built to tank are still trying to win.
I'll be happy to see some of the tanking managements (Boston, maybe Philly) coming out of this season with more wins than they projected, then get not-too-lucky in the lottery, and end up with some pretty good drafted players, but nothing great, not the franchise saviors they were tanking for.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 13, 2013 2:25:32 PM
tanking is done way more at the trade deadline than it is in the offseason. you start seeing teams dump stars for expiring contracts and picks in january and february......that's the true tanking.
and no....the trades for top draft picks are rare unless they are giving up a star player in exchange. so if we're talking jefferson for a top 5-10 pick.......NO DOUBT, pull the trigger. bring on embiid or randle.
our current record, doesn't in any way preclude our chances of a top 5 pick. we're all of 2 games ahead of where toronto is (in the 7th lottery slot that guarantees a top 10 pick with a significant chance of 1-3 or 7-9.
2 games. and that's exactly what I'm talking about. we aren't talking about making the team worse, we're talking about not playing veterans who give us a slightly better chance to win today in exchange for playing younger guys who give us a better chance to win tomorrow. it does 2 positives - experience for the younger guys and potentially improving our draft stock. that's what we're talking about.
I don't want to see adrien over biyombo or zeller playing less than 20 mpg or gordon/sessions eating into kemba, taylor, and mkg's potential minutes. that's what we're talking about here. it's about NOT pushing all the chips in, because we ARE NOT in win-now mode. win-now mode gets us 39 wins and no pick. win later mode gets us 35 wins and a great pick. and experience for the guys who are gonna be here next year, when we could potentially be talking 45-50 wins. and lebron being a year older. and wade being a year older. indiana being cash strapped OR losing stephenson. duncan being another year older. kobe another year older. OKC more and more cash strapped with durant/westbrook/ibaka contracts. etc. etc. etc.
timing is everything. we don't stand a chance this year, but we make the right move and we stand a chance going forward.
I get the idea that we could potentially win a 1st round matchup if it's not miami or indiana, but i don't at all see that as being beneficial to anybody. now if we look like we can actually compete with an indiana or miami in round 2 and steal a few games......that's different. but getting killed in round 2 will not help us more than getting another top 10 pick would.
OR having the pick to deal in big time move. we could package a number 10 pick and the other 2 picks and a future pick and land something major this summer. never know.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 13, 2013 3:22:15 PM
- Trade deadline tanking: that's just what was done with Gerald Wallace. It doesn't apply to this year's Bobcats: you don't sign up a high profile veteran only to dump his salary a few months later.
- Our record doesn't preclude anything. How could it, after 22 games?
The way our roster was built was to win more this season, not to tank. We're too good to sink anywhere near the bottom of the Eastern conference. This is what precludes any high probability for one of the top three picks.
- Steve Clifford was hired to work with a mix of young players and veterans, to try to win a lot more than 21 games, with a stronger roster than last season.
It's up to him to find the right balance between the veterans' and the youngsters' playing time. But this is not a youth movement project, just as it is not a contender team. It's somewhere in between, and the coach has to find that right balance.
I don't think there is a real problem with this.
We just had three young players injured, two of them are still injured, so of course veterans played more.
Ben Gordon didn't even play before MKG got injured. Adrien playing before Biyombo? This experiment also ended, before Biz got injured. They'll be back, and they'll play.
You know I'm 100% for Cody. He plays so well lately that I expect his playing time to increase. Anyway, he's so smart and skilled, that you can see he makes the best out of the minutes he gets. The main issue for him is the known one - getting stronger - and that will take a few years. I think he's on the right track to become eventually one of the best PFs in NBA.
- Nobody can know in advance, or control the number of wins for this season. The way I look at it, I don't particularly care about that number, and I'm trying my best NOT to guess what it will be.
What I really care about - and I feel this is the same for the vast majority of fans - is to see a team that plays hard, and does its best to win in every game. It may result in the end in 35 or in 39, or in 32, or in I have no idea what other, number of wins this season.
And this is why I - and so many others - care also about getting in the playoffs, MAYBE even in the second round.
It's all about the excitement of competing, and doing the best possible when stepping on the hardwood floor - not about some numbers or record.
From my point of view, the one and only person who is totally legitimate in being fixated on the idea of winning a championship with this team is Michael Jordan.
That's what he did as a player, that's the level of achievement he feels he needs to match as a team owner - or else, it's not good enough. He's been there, done that, so he normally wants to be back to the top.
But for the fans, there should be, in the first place, the pure excitement of seeing the team giving it its best. Once they reach a certain level of success, it's normal you want them to get to the next level - eventually, that could be going to the top. But, for a fan to be fixated on the title only, and to disregard what normally comes in between our actual current state and the very top, to say: we're nothing, but we have to be the BEST, or else, it's not worth it - what the heck is this?!
From my point of view, this "all or nothing" approach is not right and not realistic.
Take this team's effort one game at a time, then one season at a time, always wanting to move one step higher (one step at a time), and enjoy the competition at every stage.
[Note please that I didn't deny the ambition for a championship title. Not at all.
I'm saying it's out of place for this team at this time, I'm saying that there are stages to go through before it starts to make real sense for our franchise, and that each stage has its own importance and value. My hate of tanking, or losing by design, is a direct implication of this approach. It's also what respect for the game means.]
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 13, 2013 5:28:20 PM
it's not about losing by design, it's building from the ground up and not taking short cuts.
and signing jefferson only to trade him later WOULD be genius if we did sign him only as a trade asset (which we didn't). Other teams have done this plenty. You use your available cap space to create assets. You can't use cap room to sign a top 10 pick or trade it for an elite talent where that team expects an elite talent in return.
i'm with you on seeing a team play hard and go all out. but I want to be cheering for a team that's gunning for the top spot, not a team that is built by design for mediocrity. i would rather watch last year's 21 win team that had a bunch of young guys who WERE gunning for future championships, than watch a team like milwaukee last year that was going nowhere fast.
tanking is not about intentionally losing games, it's about not compromising your future for short term gains.
you're right about gordon and adrien and everything, but we saw clifford go that route once already (and with HORRIBLE justification btw). How do you think it will go when we're in play for a 3 seed at mid season? because that's the scariest thought imaginable. a sub .500 team with dreams of a 3 seed. jokes on us there.
the flip murrays and larry hugheses and theo ratliffs will come out of the woodwork. a few tyrus thomas deals too. maybe a diop deal. and biyombo will become the next augustin or morrison instead of the next nene or amare.
we're already heading in that direction so barring unforeseen changes in that direction, don't tell me I didn't point it out when we're rebuilding again in 2 years after 2 worthless playoff births.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 13, 2013 6:18:58 PM
…..our point guard was decimated again this evening.
Posted by: The Dark Knight | Dec 13, 2013 11:56:16 PM
So was Denver's. Lawson had 0 points last night.
Posted by: Nelson | Dec 14, 2013 8:38:22 AM
Reports out that the Suns are open to trading one or more 2014 first round draft picks if they can get an impact star now.
Last spring there were reports of the Suns eying Jefferson.
How would people feel about trading big Al, who I really like by the way, for a package of first round picks from the Suns along with Okafor's expiring contract for cap purposes?
There would be multiple benefits here ranging from additional draft picks in a loaded draft to an opportunity to let Zeller and Biyombo get more playing time. Also the team could continue to play to win with less risking of losing our own first round pick.
While I love Al, the team as constituted looks like a playoff bubble team, which might become an even tougher spot in future years when more teams in the east will be putting competitive rosters on the floor and going for wins.
Posted by: Jeff | Dec 14, 2013 1:41:28 PM
I like the idea of trading away big Al I love his offensive abilities.and it helps out our pic and roll game on the offensive end..on the other hand the pic and roll defense is just as bad as we are goon on the offensive end...He is a terrible defender in almost every way of defending...but in order to trade him we also need to be able to get a top ten Draft pic in 2014...If not I don't c how trading him helps us...
Posted by: shane | Dec 14, 2013 5:00:04 PM
phoenix has 3 first round picks owed to them this year plus their own but the 3 owed are all protected to at least 12. their own pick looks like it would be 10th at best, and that's the only attractive one of the bunch if it's unprotected. it would at least give us a horse in the race. i have way more faith in teams like the lakers or golden state taking playoff spots than phoenix keeping there's.
we already have 2 picks coming outside of 12, we don't really need another. nobody is going to trade a top 6 pick for a package of mediocre picks.
i would be completely open to trading jefferson for an unprotected pick that has a good chance of being top 10.
i mean, i would trade jefferson for a 2nd rounder just because it would probably land us our own pick by default.
way more ideal though, is packaging jefferson for something major. I prefer young talent that would have longevity, but a package of jefferson, gordon, sessions, henderson, whatever for melo and stoudemire would be FAR MORE legit than what we currently have. all that talk about stoudemire being done is garbage. that dude is playing some of his best ball right now.
we've got pieces to make a major move, now we need to make it. and not a major eff up either.
and definitely not picks for asik.....that is that typical rod higgins ish.....morey probably calls our front office and the secretary is like "mr. morey, rich is on the other line but I'll get him for you here in a second" and morey is probably like "that's fine, put me through to rod 'instead' please"
now, 2 top 10 picks might could land us a top 6 pick if someone was not at all in love with what was left at 4-6 and would rather have 2. we've seen that happen in quite a few drafts. 2 top 10 picks is still a major talent influx no matter what.....we saw that with kemba and biz.
i still feel like we keep missing the boat on these giveaways like thomas robinson, robin lopez, derrick williams, michael beasley......a lotta young talent being just GIVEN away and we're not even in the mix. evan turner is next on the block.
and i think we saw enough of stephenson last night to try a few godfather offers to bird. 4 picks, gordon for granger, taylor for stephenson........how the eff could he refuse?
stephenson is james harden pt. 2. there was no way coming in that indiana wasn't going to match anything up to around 10.......dude looks like he's worth every penny of 11 right now. type of alpha male that if he likes his teammates (i see kemba and mkg as being his type of running mates) then he can be that dude. a lot like a latrell spreewell, bonzi wells type in that regard.
i salivate at the idea of walker/stephenson/mkg/zeller/biz being our 5. that's nasty lockdown D and new york swagger offense all day. gritty as hell.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 14, 2013 8:09:00 PM
15% from the three point line tonight for the Bobcats. At some point this has to be addressed. Cannot win in today's NBA without being able to score some threes. Even when we're playing perfect basketball, it's hard to pull away from teams without scoring some triples. Then, late in close games when all teams start to play better defense, our spacing is a problem, lanes close up, and we can't rely on all those cuts to the basket.
Our defensive advantage just isn't there in the last couple of minutes when both sides are playing stifling defense.
Need some three ball.
Posted by: Jeff | Dec 14, 2013 9:34:15 PM
Charlotten sorry again. First, im sure you was at game what was the cheering at end of game about? I hope Bobcats playing well! Otherwise it would be Disgusting!
We kicked Lakers ass all night only reason close was with help, guess cause "Small head pointy nose(sorry had too say it , not happy).
DISGUSTING. Played well AGAIN!
Sorry but Ben gordon is like nails on a chalk board to me! Nothing to do with last shot.. however cherry on top. ok numbers, just God awefull annoying!
Posted by: Dshtg!! | Dec 14, 2013 9:59:36 PM
jeff - mirza teletovic would be a great option. there will be plenty of guys in the draft too.......i would imagine they draft shooters only.
stern - i know you didn't hear me.....i'm pretty sure that was the lakers fans in the building. there's always a bunch. just like knicks fans when we play new york. i'm ONLY good with them losing if they're playing balls to the wall and making progress with the young guys.
i too despise watching gordon play. when he's ON - it's artful, but he doesn't play enough to hit that level, and it comes with no value to us long term. and his defense, decision making, "passing", all atrocious. sessions has been bad this year too. much rather be watching seth curry and CDR than those 2.
biz is playing great this year. for a 21 year old big man.....there's a lot to be happy about there. i thought his ceiling was a 12 and 12 guy, but he might be rounding into a more efficient scorer to the point where he could hit that 15-16 area. you'll never see him score 40 in a game, but if mutumbo could average what he did his rookie year at age 25, biz could get there too. he has every bit of dikembe's offensive repertoire.
kemba was green all night. thanks kobe.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 15, 2013 12:20:02 AM
Have'nt been able to watch as closely as I would like this season so far. Sessions agree. With what i've seen of Him they cut him off early and he looks lost.
Posted by: Dshtg!! | Dec 15, 2013 6:49:23 AM
Biz is just SOLID and gonna be. Bet their were many out there missing him while hurt, they won't admit it. That short jumper,Nice!
Posted by: Dshtg!! | Dec 15, 2013 7:02:52 AM
Every time I think the NBA is coming around there is a game like last night, the free throw differential was ridiculous. It's almost like the NBA said Kobe needs his first win.
Disappointed in Big Al. He can score, but in those end of games situations that are more physical, he comes up empty. He is Mr. Pump fake until we need him on the line. Even though last night we probably would not have picked up the call any way.
If this team close out on Miami, Dallas, Indiana and the Lakers, there would not be much discussion about the draft next year. Not sure if that is good or bad. Probably doesn't matter with this team. Whatever plan they have seems to change daily. Other teams seem to know it. Based on that Asik trade rumor teams are trying to fleece them already. Just hope they don't screw this up. Erik Dampier or Tyrus Thomas anyone?
Posted by: Hank | Dec 15, 2013 7:44:27 AM
yea we could have had a 10 pt lead with a minute left and it would have come up very close. Lakers losing to Bobcats with Kobe back was'nt gonna happen. SMH
Posted by: Dshtg!! | Dec 15, 2013 8:23:23 AM
hank - you said it best. they smell blood in the water.
and yeah.....if we were able to close out against contenders.......we would be contenders. at that point nobody would be debating if we were ready or not.
as long as we aren't ready, why NOT add another big piece. it's not a debate of picking 1-3, 7-10 or 15-20. it's a debate of 1-3, 7-10, or not at all. it shouldn't even be debatable as I keep reiterating.
biyombo's a fraction below 70% from the field right now. on 46 attempts, that's looking less and less like a hot streak and more and more like a trend. back up to 50% from the line. if he could get that up to 65-70%, we'd be talking about him becoming an offensive threat. i'm cool with the baby steps - at some point he'll have to be back in the water soon. needs one designed play per game, everything he's getting is in transition and drive and dish. that's fine, but we're missing valuable chances to develop. 2nd unit should be run through cody and biz. entirely. why do sessions and gordon need a ton of shots?
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 16, 2013 11:58:13 AM
I would like to ask a question. ..maybe someone can answer it for me..well I have two....1st why does the ref's in the nba ignore other teams fouling the s**t out of the bobcats and not calling them...and does anyone other than me think that Cody possibly with his awsome skill set can be a perennial all star...yes I know that he has a lot of work to do on the deffensive side of the ball.but he is an extremely smart player that can shoot drive the lane dunk lay it up soft run like a deer and can make good passes...He needs more min....and he never gets calls....but they seem to call fouls on him for breathing on someone. ...
Posted by: shane | Dec 16, 2013 2:14:49 PM
Man oh man Biz....
He had one nice jumper but two or three just really ugly plays as well (the offensive foul stands out). Say what you want, but there is no way we are even close if Al doesn't play down the stretch. It's awfully hard to justify taking him out in a competitive game. I would rather have a tired Al and his flaws than a rested Biz and his flaws period in that sequence period.
Taylor might be a worse scorer than MKG 0_0.
Posted by: cornchip | Dec 16, 2013 2:50:08 PM
Robert Katz said: "I DO think the Bobcats need to let Sessions walk and draft a tall, pass first PG with the Portland or Detroit picks. Someone to come off the bench for 6-10 assist and a good deep range shooter, who can guard bigger mismatches."
If we had a PG with those charateristics why would he come off the bench?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Dec 16, 2013 8:55:07 PM
Joe Johnson took 14 three's tonight and made 10.
In 96 games MKG has taken 14 three's...made 2.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Dec 16, 2013 10:20:04 PM
Here is a clip for all you MKG haters out there. Wake up
The guy is going to be outstanding in this league- surprise, it will take a few years, but you can't coach this: Enjoy
it's a youtube clip of his defense on Melo for a game- 100% superb defense. Couldn't have done anymore.
Posted by: Downtown Sports | Dec 16, 2013 10:49:08 PM
"Carson in Gastonia said he heard if enough support was raised we would ask the league about getting back the Hornets name. That would be a very complicated and expensive process, and judging by what we've heard from fans it does not appear that there is the groundswell of support that many people believe there is."
Any guesses on who said that?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Dec 16, 2013 11:47:17 PM
Another good one...
"The energy and passion that Mike Dunlap brings as our coach also help us stay positive. Mike has established values and a culture that fit what I’m looking for and what I believe this organization needs right now. In order to get to where we want to be, we need a coach who is enthusiastic and will give his all to help our young team get better, and Mike has definitely brought those traits to our organization."
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Dec 17, 2013 12:03:54 AM
And the grande finale...
"We were in a place where we could have competed to make the playoffs in most years, but that was not what we wanted. We decided to take a step backward in order to be able to take what we hope will be multiple steps forward as we work to reach our goal of being a contender at the top level of the NBA."
So based on what I'm reading he said "a step backward"...that would be a single step, one step -- are you kidding me? WORST season EVER. DFL two straight years. Laughingstock. Dumbest owner in the NBA, not even close.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Dec 17, 2013 12:08:31 AM
Jordan would have to go a long way to be as dumb as Dolan. All the money in the world and that guy still can't get it right. Jordan's step backward still has him ahead if that idiot.
Where is the list if NASTAR statements? Someone could do a nice side by side comparison to see which ones are more ridiculous.
Posted by: Mike T | Dec 17, 2013 7:16:40 AM
For those of you that think that the Bobcats management has done a terrible job rebuilding the team over the last few years, how many would trade the current roster with many talented young players for the following roster that won 44 games and made the playoffs
D.J. Augustin, Tyson Chandler, Boris Diaw, Raymond Felton, Stephen Jackson, Gerald Wallace, Tyrus Thomas, Nazr Mohammed, Raja Bell, Derrick Brown, Vladimir Radmanovic, Theo Ratliff, Alexis Ajinca, DeSagana Diop, Larry Hughes, Acie Law and Ronald Murry.
Although that team played well and went to the playoffs, they were aging and in the NBA, you are either moving forward like with the young talent that we have now or moving backward.
Posted by: MJ | Dec 17, 2013 8:56:38 AM
Wow some really animtaed comments here.
Let's summarize the good:
Coaches- OK let's just state the obvious. With defense and doing more with less these coaches and Steve in general are an A+ so far. Yes some stumbles at time and not perfect but compared to the last 5 years. Can't even be on the same bell curve.
Josh- Ok for almost are lowest pay this guy has been great. No he is not a stud but isn't paid like them either. 8pts, 6 boards and assists a game like clockwork and decent D. We are getting bang for the buck here.
ummm yeah thats it for that list.
Kemba, Hendo, Big Al - either are on or off. Now on is never espn highlight mind you on. We seem to have no one that can just unleash for 3 or more 3's in a qtr or 30 pts a game or 15 plus boards or 10 assists.
MKG - prior to injury D is an A big O is a D. He can drive great but in today's league a SF must be able to hit and make a few 3's a game at least to keep other teams honest.
Taylor, Biz- promise and hope and moments of both but in general rarely there for a whole game or back to back games.
Please exit stage right:
Our obsession with Sessions. He drives head down and if ref's are calling yes he scores a bunch. If not we get total disfunction.
Gordon- haha and to think this guy will make more this year than 99.99999% of americans will likely make in their lifetime. let that sync in.
Our desire to be a fringe playoff team- of please get pick 7-10 and hope for some luck this year. 3 picks you may be able to trade for and will definitely get one draft pick who way over exceeds is my guess.
- we make stupid trade here this year that shows either we want to make playoffs this year instead of next.
- we make playoffs and still lose 1st round swept in 4 games and last 3 years have been a waste as next year. Bullets, Cavs, Nets, Knicks, etc.. likely won't be such a joke.
Posted by: Season Ticket holder for now | Dec 17, 2013 9:44:11 AM
your last prediction sums up how I feel.
I would argue that biz and taylor aren't playing any worse game by game as of late. biz specifically has been super consistent. taylor less so on the scoring, but it fluctuates based on what walker/henderson/jefferson do. dude is the 4th or 5th option in the starting lineup so it's hard to expect him to get a lot of looks in the half court.
biz is rebounding the S out of the ball and finishing an insane % of his touches (most created by offensive rebounds). the big thing I key in on is his shot blocking is down, but I think that's part respect, and part low minutes equating to difficulty reading other teams habits in small sample sizes. 6.7 boards in less than 20 minutes is doing work.
he's averaging a point and 3 rebounds MORE per 36 than he did last year, slightly less turnovers, insanely higher FG%, comparable FT (still needs improvement but hard given lack of attempts/playing time). 11th in the league in rebounds per 48.
if he's a top 10 shot blocker, top 10 rebounder, top 10 fg % guy playing 30+ mpg by the time he's 24 (and keep in mind he's already basically there).....he's a STEAL of a pick at 7. think about how good that little baseline jumper can get by the time he's 29-30. i mean that dude is a PROSPECT of a player. he could start right now for a few playoff teams..... lac, okc, portland, dallas, etc. only in charlotte would people hate that dude and think he wasn't a great pick.
same with MKG and zeller. these guys are studs at their age. we're killing the nba 21 and under AAU league. a smart move for an elite young 2 that works well with kemba would be the smartest thing we could do. and keep that group together for 8 years. and fans like continuity too.
curry and bogues weren't all-stars. but people love those dudes because everybody else was in and out every year. nobody gives an eff about kendall gill, rex chapman, kenny anderson, eddie jones, j.r. reid, etc. and you look around the league at the teams that build continuity...success rate is high, ask san antonio, miami, portland, indiana, okc, etc.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 17, 2013 10:15:27 AM
oh and I really don't see clifford as deserving of ALL of the credit for this defense.
I think a huge chunk of this goes to being taylor and mkg's second year, kemba and biz' 3rd year, henderson having another full year of starting under his belt, and the general upgrade from last year's talent pool.
replacing mullens with mcroberts alone improves your defense by about 5 points per game. mullens was horrible last year defensively. so was warrick.
haywood and reggie williams aren't exactly defensive aces either.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 17, 2013 10:38:17 AM
charlottean, several other NBA coaches have already praised Steve Clifford for the team's defense.
It's not just about individual players, it's about team work, about the defensive schemes implemented and also about getting the players to execute them. The Cats are constantly in motion in defense, switching and helping each other. By watching the team, I can see a big difference between how the team work looks at the defensive end this season, compared to last season.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 17, 2013 11:05:32 AM
MJ, your question is purely theoretical, and realistically speaking, it's not a good question to ask at all.
That's because the roster would've been changing ANYWAY, even without that impulsive decision to blow up the playoffs team (which was done in 2010 and in 2011).
Players are aging, contracts expire anyway - which leaves room under the salary cap;
e.g., Gerald's and Jax's contracts expired in 2012.
Due to age, probably Jax wouldn't have been re-signed. Due more to physical wear out than age, Gerald PROBABLY should've been re-signed in 2012, but for a much lower amount than that ridiculous contract Prokhorov gave him.
And Tyson Chandler? We got rid of one of the top defensive stoppers in NBA, for money saving purposes only, and what we got for him - better not to go into that mess again...
Derrick Brown was a young, very athletic and energetic player, who showed real improvement in his last season with the Bobcats. He would've been an useful bench player for years to come. Acie Law was always as underrated as he was talented; there was no good reason for dropping him. Even Ajinca continued developing (in France) and became the starting center of the French national team. He was a nobody when the Bobcats drafted him in 2008 for potential; but then, there was no patience with developing his potential.
This always happens, that young talented players with good potential drop out of this league, go play overseas, and are replaced by younger and cheaper ones (based on the NBA pay scale) - until some of those younger players continue that cycle and are being replaced too...
It's totally impossible to have any kind of guess as to who the Bobcats would've drafted, or traded for (or, signed-and-traded), or signed in free agency, or traded up in the draft for - which is a smart way of improving with youth, without any tanking.
One thing is sure: the roster would've gone through many changes anyway, without abruptly dismantling the playoffs team.
There is no such thing as "perennial winner", or "perennial losers", or " forever mediocre" in the NBA. Nothing is "perennial" or "forever", things keep changing - the only real difference is between smart and dumb changes.
Although I never thought that "wreck-and-rebuild" was the smart way of going about improving the team, this is all water under the bridge. Raising again and again this issue (hey, I didn't raise it, I’m just answering a comment...) is theoretical and hypothetical treading water.
It really doesn't matter anymore. Only the present and the future matter, and I think that at this time the team is on the right track to success (not because the process started in 2010 was the ONLY way to improve; it was ONE possible way, and at this point, all that's left is to "go with the flow").
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 17, 2013 11:13:49 AM
Mike T., so you're arguing about who is the tallest midget?
Truth is your point is a fair one, Dolan may just be as dumb as Air Minimum, so let's call it a draw. The tiebreaker is size of checkbook, Dolan a clear winner there.
At least Dolan keeps it interesting, kind of like a train wreck, can't look away. Knicks are a blast to pull against! Boob's just don't matter...
Smart & rich = championships.
Smart & poor = playoffs.
Dumb & rich = entertaining.
Dumb & poor = embarrassment.
Pretty clear where Air Minimum slots in...
Hey clttn, Woodson Watch now in Red Alert status!
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Dec 17, 2013 11:13:49 AM
To clarify: by "go with the flow" I meant to take the team as it is now, and cease looking back and say "but we should've done things differently". Of course, this doesn't take away the critical assessment of any of the player personnel decisions that will be made from now on.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 17, 2013 11:39:19 AM
sandy - i'm obviously not going to disagree with the FACT that we're playing great defense. you're saying it's not all personnel, i'm saying it's not all coaching. we're saying the same thing as far as I can read it.
there definitely are perennial contenders. indiana is in year 3 and don't look to be slowing down with the core of hibbert/george/stephenson/hill in tact and in their prime. OKC with ibaka/durant/westbrook the same. san antonio hasn't been a contender since draft night when duncan put the hat on? how about jordan's bulls? perennial in terms of sports doesn't mean "forever" but year in year out for a large span.....think 5+ years.
you suck for 3 years and then contend for 5+, seems like a really good deal compared to 8 years of mediocrity in and out of 8 seeds and lower lottery picks.
the problem with the playoff team was that there was no room for improvement and no room for longevity. the payroll for that team was like 71 million the following year without any upgrades and with losing a few guys. they could have NOT made the tyrus thomas deal and kept felton instead, but that still would have been the same team coming back at ~71 million and not a lot of room for improvement. especially because of how mercurial jackson is/was.
nastar - we're a few games removed from that preseason game aren't we? there's a bit of a difference between hot seat after a preseason game and hotseat after your high payroll supposed to be contender team starts 7-17.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 17, 2013 11:41:25 AM
clttn, the crux of the situation is you completely missed the flashing warning signs and refused to recognize/achnowledge that there was an issue....an issue I nailed in the preseason ;) And don't give me this BS that I said Woodson would be fired after the preseason game, what I said was that abominable game by the Knicks put Woodson squarely on the hot seat -- where he has remained since. You said it was no big deal...wrong.
Now, as for "sucking for 3 seasons and being good for 5+"...
...in the Air Min Era we've sucked for 7, and been a playoff team for 1.
No, I don't like that bargain.
Your expectations are unrealistic. Over the long run simply making the playoffs will be the hallmark of a successful season for the Boob's. We are now in the 8th season of Air Min's Reign of Terror and if he makes it to 20 I will be gobsmacked if we win more than one playoff series.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Dec 17, 2013 11:58:03 AM
Well- espn reporting that we're shopping MKG hard; bad move - we won't get fair value for him.
Posted by: The Dark Knight | Dec 17, 2013 12:31:08 PM
But charlottean, contracts expire (of which I mentioned specific examples in my previous post), trades are made (often unexpected), etc. The roster would've been very different by now, even without those abrupt moves of 2010-11. And it's totally impossible to know what those changes could've been if a different course would've been followed.
That's what my comment was all about.
I also said that doesn't really matter anymore. We go with what we have, and the potential for continued improvement is great.
Posted by: Sandy | Dec 17, 2013 1:42:55 PM
sandy - yeah, contracts expire and......you think we could have traded older gerald wallace and older stephen jackson and older boris diaw and older raymond felton for improved value?
tyson chandler was out asset, but he looked like damaged goods here. hard to imagine if we keep him that he becomes the guy that he became by winning a championship with (for) dallas and moving on the NYK and winning DPOY.
nastar - the flash warning signs? of tyson chandler breaking his leg? you saw those premonitions in preseason too? i thought I was the only one. that leg just looked prime for someone to run into it. i mean the way chandler was standing there just made it a target. saw it from a mile away. all preseason. it was a ticking time bomb that leg.
yeah nobody is saying 3 bad for 5+ good based on the past 7 years. I'm talking about the strategy of rebuilding. sandy is against being really bad to be really good. I think it's the ONLY way to guarantee increased talent value for your franchise long term.
and the idea of shopping MKG right now is insane. and that's what we are dealing with in charlotte. insanity.
i bet for MKG we will land something along the lines of randy foye, chris smith, cory higgins and erick dampier's disappearing contract. and MKG will go on to be a hall of famer or some ish.
they eff up this rebuild and i'm done. seriously. even entertaining the idea of 2 picks for asik to come off the bench when he is refusing to come off the bench in houston, just shows who is still taking phone calls in charlotte.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 17, 2013 1:55:10 PM
literally the only trade that makes sense for MKG would be for harrison barnes. and that would NOT be a good trade for us unless there were other moves coming along with it, or if they were (and they aren't) thinking long term of walker/henderson(or taylor)/barnes/zeller/biz because that unit makes perfect sense. barnes and zeller being the offensive focal points.
but trading MKG for anybody NOT ON ROOKIE SCALE and NOT AN ELITE TALENT is shooting ourselves in the face and repeating the same mistakes we've made before. again and again and again and again.
sure let's give up on a guy before he hits 21. THAT MAKES SENSE. especially the guy that would be up for all nba defensive team if he were healthy right now. sure, let's let that guy go. let's see if we can get paul pierce for him. or maybe rodney stuckey, or gerald wallace. or shawn marion. or carlos boozer.
we're so good at this stuff.
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 17, 2013 2:04:10 PM
"From what I can gather, all of the Bobcats' phone calls are about making this team better now. I'm even hearing rumblings that Michael Kidd-Gilchrist will be on the table when he returns from injury. ESPN.com"
Yup clttn, when Woodson put his starters in during Q4 of a preseason game and they yukked it up against the lowly Boob's, it was perfectly clear to me what the situation was.
Hey, check out that quote above...how you feeling about our Midget Management?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Dec 17, 2013 3:15:16 PM
More for clttn to chew on...
"CHARLOTTE BOBCATS - They are one of the few teams with an expendable backup center in draft bust Bismack Biyombo. They would have to throw in a better-than-serviceable second player to even get Morey to return their calls, but since they are on our source’s list, they probably have already done so.
So if we start with Biyombo and a No. 1, what else would it take? How about Michael Kidd-Gilchrist?"
Tht would pretty much finish you off wouldn't it?
Truth be told, really wouldn't make any sense with Big Al already in the fold...
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Dec 17, 2013 4:20:48 PM
biyombo for asik straight up is DEBATABLE but i would side with biyombo already being as good as asik RIGHT NOW and being younger/more cost effective/more athletic/higher upside.
biyombo plus a pick is horrible.
mkg for anything short of harrison barnes, bradley, beal, derrick williams, michael beasley (i'm a big beasley fan), harden (hahahahahaha), lebron (hahahahaha), kobe (hahahahahaha), carmello (not sure that's a good deal for us), or the greek kid the bucks drafted antekeuemsponko or whatever the eff you want to spell.......anybody short of that......it's a horrible deal. chandler parsons for mkg would be a good deal if they threw something in with parsons. and they wouldn't. morey is too smart.
there is no way asik is worth biyombo plus anything or mkg in ANY scenario.
yes......we are facing demolition of a positive rebuild right in the effing face.
ROD HIGGINS IS BACK B****ES!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 17, 2013 4:39:03 PM
biyombo and 2 first round picks for asik......DONE!
mkg for raymond felton........DONE!
ramon sessions for jared dudley.....DONE!
Tyrus thomas UNAMNESTIED in the most unprecedented unpredicted first veto move by adam silver to allow it.........DONE!
gana diop signed for the rest of the season........DONE!
diop extended for 8 more years.........DONE!
cody zeller for vladimir radmonovic......DONE!
kemba walker for nazr mohammed.........DONE!
ben gordon for gerald wallace.........DONE!
paul silas grab your clipboard.......
ROD HIGGINS IS BACK!
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 17, 2013 4:43:13 PM
He never left...
Told you this too, you really should listen to me ;0)
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Dec 17, 2013 4:46:56 PM
So now that we are in agreement that Higgins trumps Cho...
...think about this -- why is MJ allowing this to happen? (meaning, make moves for "the now")
Q: What puts fans in the seats?
A: A winner.
Q: What happens if fans don't buy tickets?
A: The owner loses lots of money.
Q: Do owners like losing money?
A: No. (except Prokhorov, doesn't care)
Conclusion: Air Min has hit his pain threshold for losing money...
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Dec 17, 2013 4:51:44 PM
we aren't there yet. I'm jumping to the assumption that a DA (no district attorney) move is imminent.
If said move never happens.......maybe jordan is listening to cho and letting rod play telephone all day and rile up all the nba rumor mills. which would be pure brilliance.
I tend to think the move is imminent though. it will be MKG for scraps a la adam morrison deal. 1 year + an injury + a coach that doesn't like the kid enough. elite skill on one side of the ball, limitations on the other..........this is too similar.
does kentucky hire the kid as an assistant now.........or.....?
Posted by: charlottean | Dec 17, 2013 5:07:54 PM
Yup, all we can do is wait and see....but sure does feel like some sort of move is coming.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Dec 17, 2013 7:29:26 PM
Nice to see you guys are picking up on something I brought up 2 days ago. Sharp as marbles.
Posted by: Hank | Dec 17, 2013 7:45:53 PM
Now Hank, that's not nice, it being the holidays and all....
The feed I'm watching happens to be King's TV and their announcer just said...
..."when you come into this building you know there's not going to be any energy, nothing for you or against you, you have to create your own energy"...
...large swaths of empty seats in the lower rows -- again.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Dec 17, 2013 7:53:02 PM
Completely 100% agree with charlottean. The new CBA changes the landscape of free agency. The Bobcats simply jumped the gun in signing Al Jefferson THIS year. They had invested into a deliberate approach & vision that makes sense, but that appears to be abandoned. The front office needed to stay the course for 1 more year! Because MANY other GMs see the great potential of this Draft Class, the Bobcats are at greater risk in being stuck in "mediocrity" for many years, and it was the fear of constant "mediocrity" that was the basis for their deliberate vision & plan in the first place! Now, they are on the verge of starting right BACK where they were when Larry Brown coached this team.
Posted by: CLTfan | Dec 17, 2013 9:04:54 PM
CLTfan, why do you think they "jumped the gun"? What caused this?
Another funny quote from the Kings TV guy...."I was speaking with Mark Price prior to the game and he believes with a lot of hard work Kemba will be an adequate shooter, won't ever be a great shooter but likely a serviceable one". LOL....
And after the game...."I just can't believe how quiet this building is, and even when the team is winning in front of the home town crowd, maybe they are all focused on the Panthers..."
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Dec 17, 2013 9:41:26 PM
I was at the Lakers game. Really enjoyed it when a few Kobe fans started an MVP chant and then were downed out by Bobcats fans. First time I has seen/heard that.
Played well tonight. Kemba looked good as usual. Took over in the 3rd. When Henderson is on, they are tougt to beat. That 3rd scoring option that a team needs to be in most games.
Posted by: Steve | Dec 17, 2013 10:24:53 PM
How many Boob's fans does it take to drown out 3 Kobe fans?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Dec 17, 2013 11:12:54 PM
^^^not sure. How much of a loser do you have to be to spend hours writing nonsense on a blog?
Posted by: Steve | Dec 18, 2013 7:27:08 AM
The Tyrus Thomas trade is the move that keeps on giving. That trade is why we owe the Bulls our first round pick this year. I do like your suggestion of resigning Gana Diop for an additional 8 years but only if we can also sign Corey Higgins.
As for the MKG trade, I think that you are right, we need to develop our players rather than giving up on them after one year but I disagree about Ajinka...he was a bad draft pick and would be pushed around by players like Cousins regardless of how many years we wasted trying to develop him.
Posted by: MJ | Dec 18, 2013 9:02:26 AM
You are 100% right about giving away tickets on the lower level to create some noise at the arena. It was embarrassing to see how many empty seats for a team that has a good chance of making the playoffs. I heard that they were selling tickets to students for $5 for upper level seats and $25 for lower level seats. Maybe they should sell lower level seats to college students for $5 and give them free beer if they heckle the players on the other team (ie Kobe, LeBron, ect.)
Posted by: MJ | Dec 18, 2013 9:09:08 AM
NASTAR99 @ 9:41 - Bobcats jumped the gun because everyone knows of the tremendous draft class this year and are willing to risk their credibility & reputation to "tank" for a good chance at a player that will take their team to the next level. In effect, the Bobcats' better record and standing is "inflated" partly because so many other teams are tanking THIS year. It appears the Bobcats have abandoned their strategy (with the big free agent contract this year) at the wrong time and what makes it worse is that they had invested so much of their time to carry out their deliberate plan to properly rebuild the team. If the team wants to chase a playoff run this year by trading away a high draft pick or one of our young "assets", it'll likely result in a team similar to the teams during the Larry Brown era... good enough to barely get in the playoffs with NO potential go any further. To me, there's no excitement in that.
Posted by: CLTfan | Dec 18, 2013 9:37:50 AM
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