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June 20, 2014

Joel Embiid posts pre-surgery selfie

Center Joel Embiid, who played for Kansas and was once the presumed No. 1 pick in the 2014 NBA Draft, was scheduled for foot surgery Friday. Before the operation, he took a selfie and posted it on Instagram.

Embiid has a stress fracture in his right foot, his agent, Arn Tellem, said Thursday.


Posted by Observer staff on June 20, 2014 at 10:30 AM | Permalink


"I used to look forward to the draft; …..them days long gone".
-Hugo the Hornet

Posted by: the Dude | Jun 20, 2014 12:22:19 PM

So that is the look when you just lost big money.

Posted by: Mike T. | Jun 20, 2014 12:30:15 PM

Well you better get to like him . He's dropped to 9 th . Finally someone at center who can play both ends and pass . Bye bye Jefferson .

Posted by: Iron man | Jun 20, 2014 1:50:20 PM

^^^any thoughts on where this guy hangs out all day? Definitely living off of our tax money.

Posted by: Mike T. | Jun 20, 2014 4:18:57 PM

If you're referring to me , I'm sure I can buy and sell you ten times over .. For staters .

Posted by: Iron man | Jun 20, 2014 5:43:00 PM

Sure. Cash in all the government cheese. That should help get you started.

Posted by: Mike T. | Jun 20, 2014 8:03:16 PM

he won't fall to 9th. they could amputate his legs and he'd still get drafted top 6. remember noel last year? there are some teams that passed on him that are going to wish they didn't this year.

the same will happen with embiid. every year there are guys that shouldn't get drafted high because of injury concerns and then every year there are guys that should, that get passed over because of problems that aren't there (sullinger, dejuan blair)

more likely is that julius randle falls to 9th and that would be just as awesome if it happened. He might not be a great fit here, but he's a talented enough guy to have a ton of trade value. something we are about to not have after this draft.

Posted by: charlottean | Jun 20, 2014 9:33:57 PM

^^^Randle would sensational. Would be happy with McDermott or Stauskas. Possibly trade back and get Hairston and Warren.

Posted by: Dave | Jun 21, 2014 1:13:47 AM

Oden 2.0

Posted by: Sports don | Jun 21, 2014 2:43:06 AM

Big risk. The foot is one thing but his lingering back issues at his age are a big red flag.

Posted by: apauldds | Jun 21, 2014 7:55:34 AM

You know it's a slurper talking when he says Embiid is an untenable risk but refuses to acknowledge that ankle/foot issues have the potential to severely limit Big Al. (and I pray they don't for either guy)

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jun 21, 2014 8:35:21 AM

Randle would fit here very well . He would add all the things we need at pf . He would compliment Zeller . The pf postion would turn to a net positive , which it isn't now . I like McRoberts . He's special . But his defense is amazingly pathetic . And costs the team big time . I will say this again . Defensive schemes are great , but at some point , you must play individual defense on your man . He can't . Name one pf that hasn't come in and abused him which did not cost a game or greatly contribute .

The injury here to Embiid is the same bone that has killed the careers of Ming, Walton , Lopez and a few more . Then you add the back problems . These lotto Gms are under serious pressure . What Gm is going to take the risk when there's other big performing options ? What dr is going to stake his career on clearing him ? You error on the side of caution . The problems probably make him average or underperforming . Now when you get to the Hornets , the picks are not as good . Not one will break the starting line up . Not one will impact on the defensive end but harris who's a runt at sg . Btw , Olipido is a runt at sg and that's why their trying to turn him into a pt gd .

The hornets have been to the playoffs last yr . The wing prospects won't impact right away . Gms can take the risk around or at 9 and below and that's what some pundits are projecting . Maybe some dr is confident as he's seen the path of both injuries over 20 yrs and it's not bad . But you don't risk when sure fire picks who can come in and impact right away are available .

Posted by: Iron man | Jun 21, 2014 9:11:22 AM

Big Al is already back on the court practicing. Embiid is out for 4-6 months. That is a big difference and they are completely different injuries.

Posted by: Mike T. | Jun 21, 2014 7:21:24 PM

OK. So now Kemba, Al and McRoberts are terrible defenders. Where did the Hornets finish defensively this year?

And didn't the same guy that said to take Embiid in the 3rd comment just say not to take him?

And did another guy compare Embiids injuries to Jefferson?

Sorry for the questions. These comments are beyond strange.

Posted by: Alex | Jun 22, 2014 6:49:29 AM

I stated the lotto Gms should not risk taking him . Not the Hornets .

Posted by: Iron man | Jun 22, 2014 10:06:50 AM

alex, defensive stats are not indicative of individual defensive ability. our defensive stats were very good because we didn't turn the ball over. our defensive scheme was good, and generally, henderson and MKG are very very very good bordering on elite wing defenders.

mcroberts is nowhere near as bad as a lot of the 4's in this league.

kemba is a good defender skill wise, but he's small so he gets taken advantage of.

al is just a horrible defender. anybody saying anything otherwise (except saying that he rebounds and has the occasional steal) is just lying. the guy is a horrible defender.

our stats showed the benefit of slow down post up basketball. if al was shaq, we could win playing this way. if he was even as good as zeller defensively, we could win this way. but because he's not.....we're looking at 45 wins tops (but also 35 wins minimum) for the next few years. barring a major impact player joining the fold of course.

embiids injuries are nowhere near jefferson's, but a healthy embiid has the potential to be a lot better than a healthy jefferson and jefferson does have his injuries (and he's 10 years older). legit to compare the 2's value, not legit to compare the injuries.

when you're talking 9th overall......embiid is a no brainer. that's like asking would you trade the #9 pick for derrick rose right now. many of you STILL complain about not drafting brook lopez 9th (even though augustin wasn't the problem). and brook lopez isn't half the defender embiid is.

it's going to be very interesting to see what happens, but there are trades to be made and we should be making them. If deandre jordan is at all available in a salary dump as rumored, we should be on top of that. love is available......we can offer a SLEW of talent w/o the guarantee that he stays. we could send jefferson out and then sign jefferson back after he opts out of his contract next summer if love bolts. we have to upgrade the top end of our talent if we're going to contend. if not we'll be stuck in mediocrity and rebuilding again in a few years. critical week.

watch out for boston.......i feel 2008 happening again.....cap room for melo + a godfather offer for love seems just too easy for ainge to pull off. green + sullinger + 6th + future 1st or 2 seems about on par with lee + barnes + 1st or whatever GSW can put together. they're about 17 under the cap right now and could easily dump bass or anthony to get in play there. easier than what chicago has to do.

Posted by: charlottean | Jun 22, 2014 12:34:01 PM

Excellent breakdown as usual . I disagree that a lot of pfs are not better than McRoberts . Doesn't matter tho . He's not a good on ball defender and if you keep Jefferson in the lineup , you must have a shot blocker , rim protector , help defender and good on ball defender at pf . McRoberts is a better help defender than on ball defender which may help in the team defensive schemes some . Bass would be an upgrade .

To say McRoberts is a good defender bc he's in a good defensive scheme , while he gets abused most nights is baseless . Clifford's defensive scheme is good bc it packs the paint . And even then , it's a layup line by the opposing point gds . The scheme has elite defenders at the wings who cover all over . Kemba has begun to help cover some too . Wo this coverage , the scheme would be garbage . What also helps is the lower scores , turnovers and fouls . But it's fools gold to a degree . The defend wo fouling policy allows Kemba and Jefferson to look at players blowing by them for layups . McRoberts , Mkg and Henderson want no part of that policy and foul . Mkg fouls too much . The scheme also allows Kemba to walk the ball up foregoing many a fastbreak opportunities to keep the turnovers low . This has to change .

I agree that the stars must be upgraded ESP if they refuse to commit to the defensive end and pass . If they do , I believe you can win w them beyond 40 games . Fans assume a repeat to the playoffs is a given . Not true w the moves being made in the East .

Posted by: Iron man | Jun 22, 2014 1:42:25 PM

Top 10.....no Biz? Who knew.

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jun 22, 2014 3:09:39 PM

Nastar has a negative comment to make? Who knew? I think critical fandom and an informed fan base are great....but the automatic gain saying of every single action by the franchise...it smacks of some personal disappointments, or pattern thereof. Sorry but that's the way it comes across.

Posted by: Rob Butler | Jun 22, 2014 8:25:28 PM

Rob, how many different names do you post under? Worst part is you don't add anything to the conversation under any of your split/multiple personalities. Can't think for yourself, makes it impossible for you to keep up.

Rob, give an opinion on this....should/will Air Min, Yes Co. & Cho reward McRoberts with a new and better contract? He certainly earned one didn't he? Or will the Boobs chintz out?

Who should be paid more, McRoberts or ol' Fumblerooski? McRoberts made the top-10 asset list, The Fumbler didn't.

Rob, I bet you can't.

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jun 22, 2014 11:29:34 PM

that's also rick bonnell's opinion. no defense to rick but he isn't exactly the guy I go to for intelligent nba commentary.

mcroberts hopefully will not get overpaid (unless it's a 1 year deal signed at the last minute when nobody else agrees to come here). he just isn't good enough to be paid more than like 4 or 5 a year. and we stand to gain more by losing him and letting zeller grow up faster and spending that money on an upgrade at the 1 (bledsoe?) or the 2 (hayward? stephenson? waiters?).

your hate for biz still baffles me. anybody that was not won over by the slow mo euro step just doesn't love basketball (and or physical comedy). the guy is way better than you make him out to be. and it's a good thing he hasn't played much......hopefully they give him an extension in the 3 million a year for 3 years range and reap the benefits as opposed to letting him walk and having to play the "we drafted that guy and let him walk" game while he goes to the spurs or the thunder or some ish and blocks kemba every time he steps foot in the lane.

that's the scary part about this summer. it's not just mcroberts, it's kemba/biz extension summer. the both should get cheap extensions. i expect biz doesn't get one at all and kemba gets grossly overpaid. one of the 2 is highly replaceable and the other isn't. and that's what determines real value. scarcity.

as for 4 men that are worse defenders than mcroberts...... dirk, aldridge, boozer, teletovic, monroe, frye, amare, lee all come to mind. some might be on par, but most of those guys are worse some far worse. he's no ibaka, but josh is at least respectable.

nobody is stopping elite 4's in the nba. and you have to remind yourself that he was playing alongside al. if he was playing alongside someone who protected the rim behind him, he'd probably look a little better. i don't want to make it sound like i'm bigging up mcroberts....honestly i don't want them to resign him unless it's in the 4-5 range for only a few years and even then i'd rather see that money go elsewhere when he can probably be replaced a lot cheaper. his fancy passes didn't win games. ricky rubio's don't either.

mcrobert's hair had more win shares than he did.

Posted by: charlottean | Jun 23, 2014 12:22:05 AM

@charlottean: ^^ " expect biz doesn't get one at all and kemba gets grossly overpaid. one of the 2 is highly replaceable and the other isn't."

Point goes to Charlottean; once again trying to talk some common sense into the MKG/Biz haters/Kemba fan club……

Posted by: the Dude | Jun 23, 2014 1:56:48 AM

First off I don't hate Bjz. Would have loved to turn into Ibaka. Maybe he still will. But based in what I have seen, it is not going to happen. You can throw out all the numbers you want. Ibaka is simply a more fluid athlete. For the right price, 2-3 million a year, I would keep him and continue his development. That is not exactly Ibaka level. Any more and he can go.

I like McRoberts. But to improve on last year, someone needs to be replaced in that starting lineup. If not McRoberts. Who is going to be? If he stays that is not exactly an endorsement for Hendo or MKG. One or both will have their minutes cut.

Posted by: Mike T. | Jun 23, 2014 6:31:19 AM

I think I've posted twice. Ever. Perhaps my second post should not have been a shot at you, fair enough. I'm certainly not alone I that regard.

I like Mcroberts but think the Hornets should let him walk. I want to see if Zeller can continue to develop, and am intrigued at the chance that Randle or Gordon could slip to 9 in the draft.

I think they don't extend Biz, and shouldn't.

Posted by: Rob Butler | Jun 23, 2014 8:32:37 AM

Fair enough Rob, thanks for your response.

For the record, I think Big Al is awesome so count me as a fan of his. My only questions with him is how much gas is left in the tank and will below the waist injuries affect/limit him? There is a history there, most are unwilling to acknowledge it.

I think Coach Cliff is awesome, so count me as a fan of his too. It is clear he is a rising star in the NBA coaching fraternity and he is going to be EXPENSIVE to keep. Absent a $5,000,000++/year extension offer if I were Cliff's agent I'd tell him to coach out his deal and test the market. If His Miniumumness, Yes Co. & Cho get him signed to an extension it will be a very positive sign.

McRoberts far exceeded everyone's expectations and played well above his contract, I'm impressed by that. Clearly Coach Cliff likes him and now the question is "at what price"? Are Air Min, Yes Co. & Cho going to rub nickels together or are they going to do the right thing, step up, and re-sign their "connect the dots" guy?

There are ramifications to how they deal with the issue, other players are watching.....if the Boobs low ball McRoberts it will negatively affect their efforts to attract talent going forward.

Agree on Biz.

Mike T., as for...."If not McRoberts. Who is going to be?"

How about Hendo AND Kidd-Gilchrist? They could sign CRD and start him in MKG's spot and it would be an improvement -- then turn their attention to acquiring/drafting an elite 2-guard....but let's not draft another 2-guard who is barely 5'11" ;-)

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jun 23, 2014 10:09:22 AM

Have to do better than CDR. Should not be hard with the cap space they have if that is where they want to go. If they are able to improve at the 2 and the 3 they will be back in the playoffs and maybe on to the 2nd round. Personally I would put another year into MKG and replace Hendo with an FA. Especially with Taylor coming back and probably adding someone like McDermott at the 3.

Posted by: Mike T. | Jun 23, 2014 11:07:29 AM

I agree about Big Al, I enjoyed watching him this past season. And I share concerns others have stated - where can he take us? I guess I view him as a very good "stop gap", in that I don't see him here five years from now. But between his signing and coach Clifford and the staff he assembled, the Hornets at least infused some credibility when it was badly needed. Signing coach to a long term deal, for whatever his market value is projected to be, has to happen at some point.

Posted by: Rob Butler | Jun 23, 2014 12:26:01 PM

Dirk was a weak defender . No one is as bad as Jefferson . Plus Tyson cleaned up everything along w the Matrix . But if you believe that some here are correct that his body interferes w offenses , you surround him w two way players that can score and defend . Still , this would have to include a serious shot blocker , defender at pf who can score n pass . You won't get better wings on defense . The problem is that Kemba doesn't spread or shoot well and nothing is designed for Mkg to cause him to average 12 points at least in spite of . That's Clifford's fault . If so , adding a back up vet sf two way , starting pf w Neal , Zeller , Tolliver ,
Taylor and new back up pt gd will make this team go .

Posted by: Iron man | Jun 23, 2014 7:29:02 PM

“The front office and coaching staff have to be on the same page. I don’t think they necessary have to be on the same sentence, but they have to be on the same page,” Cho said. “And I think we’re on the same page as far as team needs.”

Yeah, right. If you need to see the definition of a P.C. non-answer, there it is. I'm beginning to think Coach Cliff won't need his agent to tell him to coach out his contract and test the market, Cliff sees the handwriting on his own....

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jun 23, 2014 10:25:14 PM

^Give it a break, already

Posted by: the Dude | Jun 24, 2014 12:43:22 AM

Kemba .. 5 ft 11. Henderson 6 ft 5 . Mkg 6 ft 7 . McRoberts 6 ft 10 . Jefferson 6 ft 9 .

Posted by: Iron man | Jun 24, 2014 2:13:08 AM

We cannot pay McRoberts more than 4 per yr he is just not worth it. Dont tell me hes a 3 pt shooter because he is not. Is the he a good role player, rebounder/passer? yes so he would be great 7th man off the bench. Lets realize this guy has not done anything in the league outside of Charlotte. And his #'s are inflated due to big minutes.

Give 15 of his minutes to Zeller and sign someone cheap to pick up the other 15. Once we have more offensive talent we will not need McRoberts to get many touches on offense.

Posted by: I am your father | Jun 24, 2014 9:55:34 AM

Oh and Rick thanks for all the NBA insight leading up to the most exciting draft/free agency in the past 15 yrs for Charlotte...oh wait you havent provided anything and today you give us a selfie of Embiid, if thats not great sports writing I dont know what is

Posted by: I am your father | Jun 24, 2014 9:58:45 AM

This Rich Cho guy that keeps getting disparaged here, is he the same Rich Cho that flipped Hakim Warrick for McBob and turned Corey Maggette into a top ten draft pick? Just checking.

Posted by: apauldds | Jun 24, 2014 10:46:37 AM

"And his #'s are inflated due to big minutes."

He's the starter. How could his numbers be "inflated"?

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jun 24, 2014 3:27:38 PM

mcroberts numbers are actually pretty horrible. he's a floor game guy, not a stat stuffer. 8.5, 5 and 4 don't pop off the page at anybody. but he was solid all around, made a respectable 36% from 3.

he is a guy ANYBODY should want on the roster, but nobody should want as their starting 4 man unless you have all-stars at the 1,2,3 and 5 and have to settle for a weak spot in the lineup.

zeller is better than him NOW. he was better than mcroberts last august. the people that don't know basketball told you that mcroberts was better last year and will probably be better next year. he's not. he wasn't. as hard as everyone tried to make zeller look bad, in the end he was still better. they played zeller like he WAS mcroberts and what happened? the guy adapted. became a good passer. they should have been playing him more like al and they just refused to do so.

if boris diaw had josh mcroberts' hair......

we're comparing the 21 year old rookie who just put up better numbers playing out of position to the 27 year old who was basically given the keys to the offense and carte blanche with play making. it's not even close. not even debatable.

and i like mcroberts. I want to keep him. as a role player. making role player type money. but anything more than 5? or anything long term? no. mkg can do all the playmaking that josh can. and he's a better finisher at the rim, too.

Posted by: charlottean | Jun 24, 2014 4:13:08 PM

returning to the biz discussion.....

mike, i don't think ibaka is the right comparison. coming from the same country is about the only thing those guys' games have in common. and being shot blockers. but biz is a pure 5 and ibaka is a 4 with range. biz isn't a fluid, coordinated guy offensively (i wouldn't attach athleticism to that). but he is very fluid defensively. he's absolutely an elite athlete.

I'm not advocating a big extension for the guy. he not only hasn't earned that (and he's still really young) but his market value isn't there. a 3 year deal at 3 a year or even 2.5 a year would be absolutely appropriate. that gives us time to see if he can take the next step or not before deciding on a proper wage.

either way......the guy is already a starting caliber center. he just isn't a go-to scorer. he's an elite shot blocker/defender, elite rebounder and a guy who can convert at the rim. he doesn't make free throws and he turns the ball over. but even with those 2 big flaws.......his PPP was still by far best on the team. and those 2 factors work against in him in that statistic. if he improved those 2 things and got the ball just a little bit more (add a bit of volume), he would be a better version of ben wallace (a guy who never figured those 2 things out - but also won a lot in this league).

if you compare biz to the right guys, you see his value. and the guys he is comparable too are guys that win. they fill the middle, do the dirty work so that the other guys can do the pretty stuff. which is why letting mcroberts walk and trading jefferson and picks for love would be such an upgrade. our offense gets slightly better (not much) but our defense and rebounding get huge upgrades.

you don't draft 18 year olds and give up on them at 21 when they've been top 10 in the league in shot blocking and rebounding and you drafted them to be shot blockers and rebounders. this has consistently been the problem with this franchise. we draft guys expecting them to be different from who they are, we coach them away from what they are good at instead of playing to their strengths, and then we give up on them entirely too early in their careers. 21 year old big men are almost never good. tyson chandler was garbage at 21. deandre jordan was garbage. noah was in college. roy hibbert was in college. the exceptions are the howard, shaq, olajuwon types.....but they don't get drafted 7th, do they?

we won't know how high is ceiling is until he hits it (around 24-26) and it would just be absolutely idiotic to spend a #7 pick on a guy and let him walk at 22. and that qualifying offer is 5.5. he needs a quincy pondexter contract, not a tyrus thomas contract (and definitely not a dj augustin contract situation either).

hearing clifford say things like "experience is most important" is alarming to say the least. they need to go ahead and give him a contract extension and tell him to develop the young guys. its the only way we win more than 45 games. we will (probably) have 5 guys drafted in the top 10 of the last 4 drafts come thursday. and another 3 guys drafted in the past 3 drafts. he needs to get in tune with his roster and where it could go instead of focusing on short term gains that compromise long term gains.

and i say he needs an extension because i can only assume he thinks that way because he's coaching for his job. and that gets nobody anywhere.

Posted by: charlottean | Jun 24, 2014 4:37:28 PM

Biz is not athletic as any of the guys you compared him w . He's the size of a pf but can't stay in front of any . He's horrific playing up top on defense . Bc he plays w a sg running the point , you will never activate the only offense you can get from him which is dimes leading to point blank dunks under the basket . Think Tyson by Kidd in the finals that the Heat never adjusted to . Bc he's not athletic , has no lateral agility , he won't improve at any appreciable rate that Clifford will find acceptable . They use him sparingly and have given up on him . It's over . There's too many variables or hurdles he can't overcome here . No offense and defense . He will go somewhere and shine . I could actually see the Heat as a stop bc they're horrible inside .

Rick . All you do is speak of Jefferson and Kemba as if they're the only two on the team . This may be half ass palitable but for the huge holes in their games that stymy the production of the others . It's actually sickening if you want any kind of team unity and spirit . Team unity , spirit and morale .

Posted by: Iron man | Jun 24, 2014 5:08:38 PM

^^^then why all the talk of what a great locker room they had this year? Unity, spirit and morale is exactly what they had. You don't get that kind of effort without that happening. Obviously the players see it completely differently than you do. Not surprising, but should at least show you that there is a good to chance you are wrong.

Posted by: Hank | Jun 25, 2014 6:26:48 AM

Talk is cheap . The lockeroom commraderie is cheap too if not flat out fake . You go by what's happening on the court . On the court , two guys don't share the ball , don't pass , force shots too much and miss open teammates constantly . Period .

The mocks and rumors point to McDermott . He's the best shooter and will compliment Mkg for sure , thus allowing him to be kept . Plus he spreads it and should cause a net positive at sf . His defense sucks but Clifford hides McRoberts , Kemba and Jefferson very well . I don't buy into bc he's not so athletic , he can't get his shot off . He's tall , has a quick release , uses his body well and many slower guys get their shots off in the nba . Think Dunleavy . Dirk gets his off by lowering his shoulder , getting space or the opportunity to dribble drive .

Aaron Afflalo is being shopped to other stops . He's a good spacer and arc shooter . But he's almost 29 , his prime yrs are past him , he only ramped it up just the last 2 yrs and scored 18 on a bad team . Coming here being the 3 rd wheel w 2 ball hogs will have his 18 reduced to 15 at best . He's not as athletic as Henderson or Mkg . Neither is his defense as elite . Henderson gets to the line 4 times a game as Aflalo does and his arc shooting is improving each yr . If Henderson is opting out next yr , do it . If not , get someone in here that's teaches both wings how to make a set shot when open ( they jump shoot ) .

Posted by: Iron man | Jun 25, 2014 7:35:23 AM

That is why you get zero respect. When you are wrong just admit it. All you have to do is look at the bench during the game and you know these guys played for each other. When you say something ignorant and get called on it, just admit it and move on.

No is when you say you don't care and just cement what everyone already knows.

Posted by: Hank | Jun 25, 2014 8:32:02 AM

Ok. Now I get it . So you never even played the church league or grammar school let alone any higher levels . The higher you go , the more being missed angers you worse when missed on the break , not passed to when open when Kemba drives in the lane or not passed to when wide open when Jefferson forces a shot on three defenders . But these guys aren't normal , let you tell it. Lol.

Posted by: Iron man | Jun 25, 2014 10:58:14 AM

I see comments online in other spots deriding the center from Mich and he being the 24 th pick in the draft . This kid has great size and he can play on both ends . He used some pot and got popped . So what . If you had seen some of Chos interviews , it wouldn't be a stretch to say he looked stoned . He wants high character guys yes but I don't think excluding guys using pot is in the equation . Grant Hill said a heavy majority of the guys used it . They self medicate . So what .

There's going to be some teams clearing good players trying to get James . This should be a time they move to get a pf that defends , scores and blocks shots to compliment Zeller . The Heat are trying to get Lowry . Cho should be fired for missing out on this guy and not doing everything he can do to get him now . Lowry , as in any pass first , scoring defending pt gd changes everything . W a pf , Lowry and McDermott , this team soars .

Posted by: Iron man | Jun 25, 2014 11:13:34 AM

Wow. You are at another level. A bunch of disgruntled players do not commit to defense like that and play as hard as they did. Sulking? Absolutely zero evidence of that. Theories are one thing. No matter how bad yours might be. Making up things to support them? Beyond pathetic. Sure. A 20 year old player getting missed cutting to the hoop by an all-nba player is disrupting team chemistry. Might be the most ridiculous thing I have read here.

Where did you play exactly?

Posted by: Hank | Jun 25, 2014 2:10:10 PM

biz not athletic? you guys are insane. Same crowd that said zeller lacked athleticism when he dominated the combine last year.

can't keep anyone in front? are you kidding? compared to jefferson? biz is a center and run the tape back of game 4. dude was switching pnr on lebron and keeping him in front. strength, running the floor, jumping, all strengths. catching, shooting, footwork, all problem areas compared to the elite.

at least know the argument you're trying to make against a guy.

the reason biz was a top 10 pick was because of his athletic ability. 2 teams (us one of them) reported that he had the highest superman drill performance in workouts of all the bigs in their draft class. we said it wasn't even close and that they just asked him to stop because he just kept going. there isn't much more athletic than that from a big man.

also.....i like the idea of mcdermott coming here, but i also don't get how the same crowd that says morrison was a bad pick and a flop (and not our fault for being impatient on injury recovery and having the wrong coach for him) think mcdermott is a different player.

morrison is the exact same guy just more of an athlete than mcdermott, mcdermott being slightly better shooter. same guy. 6-8 elite scorer. post skills but more of a 3. not great defensively. great offensively. great passers, good handles, insane feel for spacing and creating shots.

jordan drafting mcdermott and mcdermott being a success would just be retracing steps and correcting them. as would retaining kemba and biz beyond their rookie contracts and getting zeller in the starting lineup over mcroberts or another 4 man. and not signing a big name 3 to further marginalize mkg.

we have a TON of the pieces to the puzzle as far as building a contender. we have some great 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th best players on rosters. our 1st and 2nd could stand to be upgraded, but the biggest problem we continue to have over and over and over in this franchise is being impatient with young guys. zeller and mkg might evolve into great 1st and 2nd options. our pick this year might fit that bill. but they won't get there with a coach that doesn't believe that.

Posted by: charlottean | Jun 25, 2014 3:54:17 PM

Might need to define athleticism. Biz has measurables. But coordination, especially hand/eye is obviously lacking hurting his offensive play. He is young and maybe it develops.

Posted by: Mike T. | Jun 25, 2014 8:06:37 PM

"zeller is better than him NOW. he was better than mcroberts last august."

Coach Clifford disagrees. Zeller got zero starts when Josh was healthy and Cody only got 17 minutes a game.

"either way......the guy is already a starting caliber center."

Coach Clifford give him 9 minutes a game.

What are you smoking?

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jun 25, 2014 11:12:20 PM

dude you're talking about a rookie with a coach that doesn't like young players (he just said so). that doesn't mean he isn't better.

clifford disagrees with a lot of logical things, too. he also thinks plus or minus is a good way to make up a lineup and that we can build around big al. he's not that bright of a guy. the only reason i'm not on here talking about the guy needing to be replaced is because the strategies he is a fan of (post up offense, help defense zones) are positives and because we've had way too much coaching turn over. but he's not a smart guy at all. just knows how to run the van gundy play book. nobody should mistake clifford with a poppovich or rivers or jackson or SVG/JVG or carlisle or whoever. he borders on mike brown territory. he knows a good, successful system and that CAN make him successful. but he's not a bright guy. guarantee his IQ is average at best.

mike - we're talking about a center. outside of dwight howard and deandre jordan....there aren't many centers in the league as athletic as biz. noah isn't coordinated at all. same boat. asik? robin lopez? hibbert? pekovic? dalembert? brook lopez? splitter? marc gasol? perkins? valancunius? the guy is an upper echelon athlete. and the coordination as lacking as it is....is on par with several of those guys too.

i mean who are you comparing him to? westbrook? this is the problem with how people view biz. nobody is comparing him to what he's supposed to be compared to.

coordination as in HAND-EYE coordination or dexterity are the things he lacks. not strength, jumping, running, agility.......which is what athleticism is. by definition. we can't argue about definitions. i don't make them up. he's every bit the athlete that serge ibaka is.....he's none of the offensively skilled basketball player ibaka is. and serge isn't the brut in the paint that biz is.

Posted by: charlottean | Jun 25, 2014 11:38:49 PM

"but he's not a smart guy at all."

What are you smoking?

If Clifford is so weak/dumb, in your opinion who should they have hired instead?

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jun 25, 2014 11:53:46 PM

they didn't have any options. and it's not like i would consider jordan a braniac either (you love hearing that).

Dunlap was a lot smarter of a guy, but didn't necessarily have a better system for nba basketball (although his system suited the personnel of kemba/taylor/hendo/biz/mcroberts/mkg very well). and he was better for building the team up through the draft. clifford is going against that plan adamantly. i fully expect some serious moves towards veterans this year to further the move towards mediocrity and compromise the entire point of suffering through a proper rebuild. and I fully expect it to come because clifford demands it and cho has to cave because he know he can't fire another coach and knows that a few years of playoffs is good enough to keep his own job for a while.

i'm not smoking anything.....the guy says all kinds of dumb stuff in interviews all the time. guarantee he doesn't score well on iq and aptitude tests. doesn't make him a bad coach necessarily, but it definitely keeps him from being great. other guys will always out smart him.

if you think the guy is smart, that just adds to the long list of things you are constantly wrong about.

Posted by: charlottean | Jun 26, 2014 12:46:09 AM

"they didn't have any options."

Dude, what are you smoking?

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jun 26, 2014 1:12:35 AM

"i fully expect some serious moves towards veterans this year to further the move towards mediocrity and compromise the entire point of suffering through a proper rebuild."

That sounds like the towel being thrown in? Correct me if I'm wrong but right there you just said His Minimumness will fail to execute The Plan...

...did you not?

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jun 26, 2014 1:15:34 AM

#9 Stauskas
#24 McGary

Posted by: Go Hornets! | Jun 26, 2014 11:14:14 AM

I don't want to fight w some of you guys ESP about Biz . I like Biz . I hate how it turned out . There's no serious development program for these guys and it shows . It starts from the top . Mj was blessed , is impatient , has to put butts in the seats and has a different agenda which is inconsonant w development . To see him rot on the bench , not even understanding why after starting a yr is shameful , disgusting and out n out deplorable . He should have been sent at least to the D league . Notwithstanding , his bb iq is low . He jumps ok . Runs forward ok but cutting laterally and back pedaling is well below average for even a center . His play up top is non existent on both sides of the ball outside of screening . He's never in his life set a back screen and has no clue not only when to do it but what the reasoning would be to cause one to be set . ( helps the player go back door ,allowing the defender to have to guess which way the cut is coming from ) .

Lateral agility is part of athleticism . Biz has none . He suffers from orthopedic angular deficiencies that have never been addressed . ( knees touch and angle out ) . This would never get by at most other stops . Coordination is a part of athleticism . Most of the centers you list could probably beat him down the floor . I love his help defense . His shot blocking . His protecting the paint . But bc he's slow laterally , he's foul prone . And can't read what's going on bc of his bb iq . Most imp , bc of his poor lateral agility and orthopedic issues. His improvement suffers . I agree Clifford is not the smartest tool in the set and he masters certain systems but will never be a top coach bc he can't figure out the loads of issues he's beset w beyond the basic sets inc in game strategies or complex offenses inc screening , cutting and action away from the ball side . And he has no clue how to put Mkg and Biz in the mix . He's brought them back to prominence . But the way he's developed Biz , Mkg and Zeller is reprehensible .

Posted by: Iron man | Jun 26, 2014 2:17:35 PM

I played div one bb . Against guys like David Thompson . On a team as high as 6 th in the country . Sg .im retired from a highly successful practice and have never been in the bread line despite some claims here by less fortunate guys like Mike t. Notwithstanding , my background should not have much bearing on my comments which are basically fundamental bb , defense , transition and sharing the ball .

Posted by: Iron man | Jun 26, 2014 2:24:36 PM

^^^At least now we know what the issue is. The game has changed significantly since you played. I know it is hard to accept and the some are reluctant to adapt as they age. Understood.

Posted by: Hank | Jun 26, 2014 2:45:48 PM

yeah - i don't think the plan as they sold it originally will be fulfilled. I said that last summer when they signed jefferson. it's impatience that will lead to mediocrity instead of a contender.

and no they didn't have options. guys did not want to come here to be fired the next year. they had options to look at, but not options to actually sign.

and biz absolutely has lateral agility for a big man. he moves WAY BETTER than almost all of the starting centers in the league. he moves like a 5. he plays the 5. stop comparing him to 1s, 2s 3s and athletic/undersized 4s. and no half those guys cannot beat him down the floor. at least not with stamina. the guy has chased down guards for blocks lebron style and we're talking about his athleticism? no. coordination and dexterity......sure. guy lacks. basketball skills, sure. but athletic ability? the entire league was unanimous in labeling him a raw player, elite athlete. and his measurables confirm that.

Posted by: charlottean | Jun 26, 2014 3:00:51 PM

clttn, fair enough on the plan...we're on the same page there.

As for coaching options, I think they had plenty....assuming they were willing to pay up -- they weren't.

Hank, with you we always knew, you're stupid. Born stupid, can't think for yourself, unable to express yourself...always will be stupid, nothing you can do will change it. Sad really.

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jun 26, 2014 3:58:59 PM

^^^Are you saying the game has not changed? Hey. There are a couple of football teams somewhere playing the Wing T. You guys should get together and check it out. That is how the game should really be played!

Posted by: Hank | Jun 26, 2014 4:16:27 PM

That not what I said...

...what I said is you are stupid.

The model Iron man would like to see the Boobs aspire to was on full display this year in the Finals -- sure served the Spurs well. Coach Pop played his hoops at Air Force from 1966-1970 in case you were interested.

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jun 26, 2014 4:37:54 PM

That's ;)

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jun 26, 2014 4:39:28 PM

Hank . Come on man . I've followed the evolution of the game . But if you look closely at the Spurs , little has changed my man . Other than the arc ball , not much . Oftentimes , both bigs still play inside , that being Splitter and Duncan . DIAW plays in and out . But back then ,Laimbeer played up top , so the stretch 4 isn't really a new device .

I'm done w this Biz stuff . Clifford doesn't believe a word you say Charlotean . If Biz weren't what I said , he'd be playing . ESP w an atrocious bum like Jefferson on defense . Watch if Payne or The boy from Mich gets here . Both will be instantly put in the lineup ahead of Biz if he is still he re . Playing meaningful minutes outside of just when Jefferson is catching a break .

Posted by: Iron man | Jun 26, 2014 4:42:31 PM

C'mon man. The Spurs? There is literally one team playing like that. They are loaded with Vets and have the longest tenured coach in the league. Your expectations are unrealistic. No other team in the league has been able to put that together and the Spurs are a year away from not being able to do it either as key players retire.

NASTAR thinks I am stupid? Means I must be a genius based on that track record.

Posted by: Hank | Jun 26, 2014 7:46:20 PM


That's the key there slurpers, expectations. Maybe Hank isn't so stupid after all...

Given the small market disadvantage, a current owner that is intellectually disadvantaged AND underfinanced AND has fielded a gang that can't shoot straight for a management group, and the general black cloud that seems to have followed the Boobs since the day that miserable d.b. Stern foisted onto us a lousy excuse for an original owner named Bob Johnson, expectations must be tempered.

Air Minimum forced us through hell and back all with the expectations of "consistently going deep into the playoffs and fielding a championship contender" -- these are the hallmarks of a Spurs organization...

....folks, as Hank has pointed out, those expectations are completely unrealistic, sorry.

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jun 26, 2014 8:35:49 PM

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