July 09, 2014
Charlotte Hornets to offer restricted free agent Gordon Hayward a maximum contract
When the NBA moratorium on signings ends Thursday, the Hornets will offer the 6-foot-8 Hayward an offer sheet, an informed source said early Wednesday morning. Hayward has agreed to terms, the source said, and the deal will be for the maximum allowed under the collective bargaining agreement: $63 million over four years.
Since Hayward is a restricted free agent, his former team – the Utah Jazz – will have the option to match the Hornets’ offer and retain him.
Hayward spent Monday and Tuesday in Charlotte on a recruiting visit. Last season with the Jazz, he averaged 16.2 points, 5.2 assists and 5.1 rebounds.
Jazz officials have indicated in the past they would match any offer another team makes for Hayward. Once the Hornets sign Hayward to the offer sheet, the Jazz will have up to three days to match before Hayward would go to Charlotte.
This is the second summer in a row when the Hornets have looked to Salt Lake City to better their team. A year ago they signed Jazz center Al Jefferson, an unrestricted free agent. Jefferson averaged 22.5 points and 11.2 rebounds. The then-Bobcats made the playoffs and Jefferson was chosen third-team All-NBA.
Hornets owner Michael Jordan said at a charity event last month he hopes the team signs another “superstar” to complement the signing of Jefferson. Hayward is no superstar, but he would provide some things the Hornets lack.
The Hornets were in the bottom-third of a 30-team league in field-goal percentage, free-throw percentage and 3-point percentage. Hayward has the potential to spread the floor with his shooting, reducing the double-teams on Jefferson in the lane.
The questions becomes whether Hayward is worth $16 million a season to the Hornets, and whether the Jazz, which has approximately $30 in space under the salary cap, will choose to retain him.
Posted by Observer Sports on July 9, 2014 at 09:27 AM | Permalink
The question is really whether he is worth that to the Jazz. The Hornets obviously believe he has the value to them. Don't make me dig up all the moronic quotes saying Al was not worth 13.5 Turned to be a bargain for an All NBA center.
Posted by: Hornets are Back! | Jul 9, 2014 9:37:30 AM
I just hope this indeed pans out like the Jefferson signing. He is definetly a huge upgrade over Henderso, even after his down season last year. He can score 18PPG more efficiently, spread the floor and his rebounding plus his 5APG will be great. I can argue the Hornets have better talent than the Jazz to sorround him.
I like the fact that he is just 24, has great length and size, plus he is a great character kid. But I really think Utah will match, or ask for a lot in a S&T.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 9, 2014 9:47:52 AM
^^^^ doesn't make him worth it given all of the context. he made us mediocre, not a contender. it's not like he made us a 60 game winner and guys like milsapp, hickson, lopez all went for significantly less in the same market. we were also reportedly the highest bidder by far.
the contrary is that we had to spend the money anyways and he didn't really impair our cap room this summer (or did he?) and he didn't really hurt our draft situation either (but that is purely because of a miracle involving the detroit pick).
hayward is NOT worth this much. utah will match just because they stand to lose too much by letting him walk. if this turns into a sign and trade, it will most likely involve MKG and that is a bad move for us (no matter how little the bandwagon cares for mkg). if it's henderson and a pick.....sure, but it's still A LOT to give up to a guy compared to stephenson or parsons.
interesting to see how this plays out but everywhere is reporting that the jazz intend to match.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2014 9:54:26 AM
One of the best passing wings in the game. Has size and can score with 3 point range. Only 24 years old. If they get him, this could look like a steal in 2 years. Unfortunately Utah knows this as well. I credit the team for pursuing the player they want and being aggressive about it.
Posted by: Mike T. | Jul 9, 2014 10:02:57 AM
I'm moving my comment to the current discussion thread on it...
Why are some fans so obsessed with NASTAR?
It's not about him, it's about the team.
I like Gordon Hayward, but not for a max contract. He's far from deserving that kind of pay rate.
It was obvious that the only way we can snatch him from Utah is by OVERPAYING.
This doesn't make overpaying the right thing to do.
I hope the Jazz won't blink first, and will match the offer sheet. Why?
So they'll be stuck with that super contract for the next 4 years, not us.
If they balk, it's for very good reason.
I would pursue Deng, who even at his ripe "old" age of 29 is still a better player overall than Hayward. And if Deng goes for a bigger name franchise, so be it. There are trades, and there is next off season too.
This an impatient move, for a very good, but not really elite player. He can score, but not at the level of 20+ ppg. Not even close. He doesn't have that "killer" instinct.
He used to shoot it really well, but his 3 points percentage declined seriously last season. How far? Below Kemba level...
He's a very good passer, which comes in handy after Josh turned his back on us.
And besides, he's just OK (not great) for rebounding, and much less of a defender than MKG or Jeff Taylor. So? Is this a MAX contract? Heck, no.
It's impatience, if not an outright desperate move, which was unnecessary. We're not in any "desperate" situation.
What could be dumber than this max offer?
Bringing in Marvin Williams at PF (as it's rumored now), when we have two very good young prospects to develop at this position.
Posted by: Sandy | Jul 9, 2014 10:24:59 AM
Is Cho counting on a sign and trade. That seems only way this makes sense, with Hornets throwing in extra player or draft pick. Otherwise, since Jazz will match offer sheet, why all the time and effort?
Posted by: eduardo | Jul 9, 2014 10:29:39 AM
A sign and trade with Utah, for Hendo and a pick? It would at least take Hendo's contract off the books for us, and it will be upgrading our roster.
Therefore, I think the Jazz won't be dumb enough to do this. If they match the offer sheet, it'd be only because they like Hayward THAT much. Let that be their problem, with that max contract.
Posted by: Sandy | Jul 9, 2014 10:30:34 AM
^^^ he's not as good as lance on the court though. lance is a way better passer and way better defender. arguably a better shooter (statistically, he has been). and much cheaper. and unrestricted.
i do give the team credit for making a ballsy move, but it could have used a little logic, too.
would parsons not have signed that offer sheet? because parsons is a better talent than hayward. and 15 million+ a year only looks like a steal if he's leading us to 55 win + seasons on his back. that's the only way. harden made his deal (same deal basically) look like a steal. kevin love made his look like a steal. many others did not (eric gordon, derrick rose and brook lopez for injury reasons, and many guys who took slightly less like tyreke evans or javale mcgee have not looked worth it at all either).
it seems like lance should have been target 1 because of his unrestricted status and parsons THEN hayward as the restricted options. if they were all unrestricted I would probably flip flop hayward and lance but price factors in. all 3 are comparable talents......if one goes for significantly less than 15, that's the one we should have grabbed. we had to overpay jefferson because we were coming off of 21 wins. now we're coming off 43. it's an easier sell, now.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2014 10:32:53 AM
This guy plays the same position as MKG, no?
Hey, that position had to be upgraded....suits me.
Sandy, it's not me they are concerned with....the slurpers are afraid of confronting reality, I just happen to be the one who most often makes them aware of the true situation. (but you are right, they are too dumb to differentiate between the message and the messenger)
Now, about that "superstar" His Minimumness was referencing...
...any clues yet on who that is?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 9, 2014 10:45:02 AM
charlottean, I know you like Lance St.
You know too what I think of him.
It gets even worse, after the news about P.J. Big disappointment, after all his promises, and all his nice talking to our management.
Adding two knuckleheads to this team ?! Noooo.
Let's just hope P.J. learned his lesson, finally. Having this kind of character on the team is plenty to handle, for now.
And do you think Parsons had any interest in a Hornets' offer? I don't think so.
For Hayward it's different, because of Jefferson's presence here (and probably, lobbying efforts, the way Kemba persuaded Big Al last year).
Posted by: Sandy | Jul 9, 2014 10:51:18 AM
MKG is a better prospect than gordon hayward, sorry. he's just older/further along in development.
cho isn't doing this to marginalize MKG. he's doing it to add a 3rd wheel to henderson and MKG and that 3rd wheel be offensive oriented.
it isn't going to happen so we're discussing something that 4 days from now won't be a discussion.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2014 10:52:57 AM
I hope so.
Posted by: Sandy | Jul 9, 2014 11:10:13 AM
i don't know if parsons got a max offer sheet or not. i think it's equally as likely he would sign one, and less likely the rockets would match given their alternative options. and i think parsons is the better player (albeit slightly).
as for stephenson, i think it's crazy that we would make a decision on him based on hairston being an idiot. i know what you're saying and don't disagree that the perception would give them pause, but lance doesn't have the off the court issues for something like 4 years and even then it was minor/kid stuff. hairston's on the josh gordon career path. completely different animals.
and when you're talking about 15 million a year vs. 10 million a year for arguably the better player? hayward can't play the 1 for a stretch, stephenson can. that means you can throw a stephenson, taylor, henderson, mkg, lineup out there and just body guys up defensively.
and again, stephenson is unrestricted. we could have reached an agreement with him. when utah matches and the music stops and we don't have a chair.........and we end up overpaying for scraps, you can't tell me stephenson shouldn't have been offered 10 a year.
if they already floated that out there and it was shut down, fine. but i find that hard to believe. offering to hayward first helps from a PR perspective with lance (as in our fans can't be mad that we tried to sign somebody with better character first) but it will surely drive up his price demands. he has every leg to stand on in arguing that he's worth what hayward is worth. even with character questions. he's the better athlete, with a better resume, better defender, more versatile on both ends. as good of a passer as hayward is.....lance is significantly better. You could argue he's only trailing the lebron/paul/rondo/rubio category when it comes to passing.
"In spot-up catch-and-shoot situations, Lance is converting at an adjusted field goal percentage of 59.8 percent with a points per possession clip of 1.16. That ranks him in the top 90 percent in the league and in front of the decent spot up shooting trio of Ray Allen, Matt Bonner, and Klay Thompson. If you just said to yourself ‘what the...?!’ after reading that, trust me, you’re not alone."
again - price equal and both unrestricted, i would be completely on board with hayward. but we're talking restricted AND significantly more expensive.
if we end up with nothing 4 days from now, I would recommend we go ahead and grab dion waiters from cleveland since they are giving guys away.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2014 11:10:57 AM
That is the best point. Not getting Hayward is not the end of the world. If you really like him and how he fits especially from a character standpoint, go for it. If not, there are other options and a number of trade scenarios open to the team. Once this Lebron Melo thing settles out there will be trades flying every where. The Hornets will be far from done. Even if they are a facilitator on a trade, they could come out in a very good position.
Posted by: Mike T. | Jul 9, 2014 11:18:09 AM
yeah but all it takes is parsons/stephenson being gone at that point and we've missed arguably more realistic options that are equal talents. if they're still in play on the 13th, no real damage done.
i think lance might still be around. supposedly his agent secured a 90 million dollar offer from the CBA that allows him to play serious hardball and be patient with the process stateside this summer. assuming that is true.
another scenario to consider if we miss out completely would be letting new york dump stoudemire or bargani with a REALLY REALLY good pick and hardaway. let them take hairston back. then we could potentially use that expiring in a deal at the deadline, while not really falling off from last year's team at all. still have MLE to get a really good backup pg or veteran 3/4 guy like williams if they're determined to do so to appease clifford.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2014 11:31:59 AM
First of all dummies. Sign and trade is no longer an option. Contract has been offered/ He's either a Hornet or a Jazz player now. End of story.
Secondly, Hayward was 1 of 5 players in the NBA last season to average 16/5/5. Michael Carter-Williams, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Durant and Lebron. That's on a terrible team where people were doubling him every trip down the court.
15.8 is a lot of money per season, but we are in good shape financially, and his fit here makes it worth it.
All that said, Utah will match.
Posted by: Stache | Jul 9, 2014 11:36:55 AM
"he's just older/further along in development."
At what point would you be willing to hold MKG accountable? How many years does he get in the league before the "youngest/developing" excuse no longer applies?
Slurpers, delude yourselves to your hearts content, but it's undeniable that AM, YC & C have sent a signal that doubts exist in Boobville about the #2 and the #4 delivering the goods....
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 9, 2014 11:38:18 AM
His Per is 16 . He's not even the third best player on the team . He's slow laterally and will never guard sgs . He shot 30% from the arc . He disappears in games bc he's weak , gets checked by sgs bc they stick him there but isn't one and is REALLy a sf . He's here only bc he didnt like being the first option and didnt like how the coach used him . His shooting percentage dropped each yr he played w the ball hog Jefferson . He won't spread the floor much better and adding him to Kemba , Jefferson and subtracting Mkg will reduce the phony defensive stats . What this says to Taylor and Mkg is not good . Mkg has been totally dogged by this organization .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 9, 2014 12:25:17 PM
nastar he hasn't even turned 21 yet so I would say that would be a start. Honestly.....23-25 is when most guys peak. big men sometimes take a little longer. gordon hayward averaged 5 a game when he was mkg's age. so we're talking about max contract guy being below his level of production and nowhere near the defender. that's not a clear cut definition, but it proves my point. you're comparing a 24 year old 4 year vet to a 20 year old 2 year vet.
and stache.......sign and trade is still on the table until he actually SIGNS the offer sheet which he can't do until tomorrow.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2014 12:34:49 PM
Its all a mute point because Utah will match this offer. Parsons is moot point as well, Rockets will match outside of signing Lebron which won't happen with Lin on the roster and if they can trade him I'd be shocked. Stephenson is a head case and too big a risk especially with PJ running amok.
Lets get Marvin and Sessions and go with that for now.
Posted by: Brian | Jul 9, 2014 12:35:15 PM
The only concerns here about a #2 is the 2 guard. Henderson will be on the outside looking in.
Posted by: Jim | Jul 9, 2014 12:35:31 PM
Marvin Williams ?? Lmfao . He has the worst bb iq in the league . There's a reason why he can't stick anywhere . He's not a sf or pf. Now Mkg has fixed his jumper , he will destroy Williams . I'm sick of how badly he's treated here . He's the 2 nd pick n the draft and can ball . Use him correctly . Clifford has no offense other than dump into
Jefferson and sfs are wooed bc Kemba can't facilitate .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 9, 2014 12:39:30 PM
henderson will be a solid rotation wing regardless of what happens. people are so hard on him because he's been our 2nd or 3rd option (and he hasn't been the problem). but as the 4th, 5th or 6th? awesome. absolutely awesome. and his contract fits that.
as for MKG, it is not a debate:
20 year olds DON'T DO THAT in the nba, let alone in the playoffs, let alone against miami, let alone while holding lebron to 5 points in over 25 minutes of play guarding him. that DOESN'T HAPPEN. guys are draped all over him, it's not like he got hot making open 3's like a danny green or a gary neal have done. that was 2 and 3 defenders trying to stop him. that was rebounding, shot blocking, assists, the whole 9. while defending the best of the best of the best.
hayward didn't do that when he was 20. parsons didn't either. neither did stephenson. be realistic with your expectations and compare the same situations, not established developed veterans with a kid that can't even drink legally yet.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2014 12:47:45 PM
Hey. How do I find a favorite team where every draft picks works out and you never have to dip into free agency to round out your team? Maybe the Spurs? That way I don't have to listen to some of these idiotic comments any more. Things would be so much easier if all these teams nailed there picks and it would all be home grown talent. I wonder what % of drafted players start on their original teams. Can't be very high.
Posted by: Wheels | Jul 9, 2014 12:48:53 PM
^^^ love it. also noteworthy that......walker/zeller/mkg/henderson are currently penciled in as starters + taylor/biz/vonleh expected to be in the rotation barring some major unexpected moves.
but this city expects 20-21 year olds to be equal to 27-30 year olds. they booed zeller before he played a game. they booed diaw last season for what reason exactly? because silas didn't like his game and pushed him out the door after he started and played big minutes EVERY SINGLE GAME HERE without missing a tick for injuries?
the city that STILL talks negatively about jake delhomme. the city that thinks 1.5 seasons of adam morrison was enough to label him a bust even when he was coming off of ACL surgery. the city that exhausted all of their energy getting the owner to change the name so the franchise could return to it's 14 year history of old to forget the 10 year history of new. the city that elected pat cannon in spite of the red flags, tax issues, observer articles, etc. the city that gave the charlotte knights 40 million to put a minor league baseball team uptown. minor league baseball. no tourism income in that.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2014 1:13:24 PM
"Stephenson is a head case and too big a risk especially with PJ running amok."
Good point. Can you imagine the circus if we had both those guys!
Wheels, Spurs probably a good place to start. Now if you're looking for a franchise that can screw up just about anything, even when it's almost impossible to screw up -- Boobville is the place you're to be! Got your truck loaded up?
clttn, the kid cannot shoot...your visions of grandeur will never come to pass....sorry.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 9, 2014 1:59:01 PM
A S&T is still a REAL possibility (even if the contract has been signed), and they only have a verbal commitment at this time. Players are not allow to sign until July 10th. Don't you remember Nicolas Batum and Minnesota last summer?
Posted by: RobC | Jul 9, 2014 2:04:17 PM
Did you see the offer Cleveland is preparing to get Kevin Love (in efforts to lure LBJ)? There is no way the Hornets can beat that.
They are willing to send Andrew Wiggins, Dion Waiters, Tristan Thompson and multiple first rounders. They are also willing to take on Kevin Martin's contract (if needed). There is too much upside and young talent in that offer, way better than any other so far.
Most we could do is add Jefferson a rookie, Hendo and multiple 1st, that is not enough at all. Wiggins alone could be a superstar, Thompson is solid, so is Waiters.
Posted by: Go Hornets! | Jul 9, 2014 2:18:01 PM
jefferson, vonleh, henderson, 2 firsts for love and martin is pretty comparable. i would go with cleveland's offer too, but that would be pretty comparable. and i don't think cleveland does it unless they get lebron.
those salaries don't add up, either so they would either have to make a second deal or it would be without lebron making a max. that wouldn't be required of us.
nastar, i present to you gerald wallace:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wallage01.html dude couldn't buy a jumper until he was 22. then he became mediocre, and even had a few years that he shot the ball well (his all-star year).
and i still say he's an elite talent WITHOUT being able to shoot. 20 year olds don't do those things that he does. finishing in traffic? 2 and 3 defenders on the defending champs? are you kidding? all while playing insane defense on THE premier player? come on man you're delusional.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2014 3:16:35 PM
Sorry Charlottean, Jake Delhomme completely blew what was until that point an excellent season. He was never the same afterwards. Adam Morrison is regarded UNIVERSALLY as a bust. Even if he had never gotten injured he was too one-dimensional to be a #3 pick. Boris basically gave up and demanded a buyout. The new ballpark is awesome and has spurred a boom in downtown condo/apt construction. I'll give you Cannon. I didn't vote for him though.
Posted by: apauldds | Jul 9, 2014 3:22:34 PM
that's one game (delhomme). you don't trash a guy that was awesome for 5-6 years and is your franchise leader in every passing measure AND wins, a guy that was 53-37 w/l, 5-3 in playoffs OVER ONE BAD (horrible) GAME. you don't trash that guy because his arm went out after that either. doesn't change 2003-2008 prior to that game. the guy did everything possible to win a superbowl.
boris did not give up. he asked for a buyout when silas stopped playing him. silas hated the guy. and again.....doesn't erase the 3 straight years of 82 starts where he was running the floor and boxing out and playing great basketball. just like he has since for the spurs. you don't boo that guy, he did nothing to deserve that, just like zeller didn't deserve to get booed as a draft pick. it's ridiculous.
morrison was playing GREAT in preseason leading up to the acl tear. stick with the facts. we gave up on the guy before he got a chance. he had the same kind of rookie year walker and zeller did. and that was a horrible team to have been drafted to also.
new ballpark didn't spur development, that development was on hold until the ballpark was built to build around it. they didn't build uptown around the ballpark you idiot, they put a ballpark uptown. you think it took THAT to build apts on 3rd street? you act like 3rd street was in the middle of gastonia or some ish.
your absolute ignorance is a prime example of what i'm talking about. absolutely delusional sports town. the kind that expect 20 year olds to be all-nba caliber and that expect an nfl team to go 12-4 every year in a league BUILT FOR PARITY where 7-9 and 9-7 are defaults of the system. look in the mirror and be ashamed.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2014 3:57:15 PM
Personally I hope Utah matches, I think the 2 needs more of an upgrade than the 3. Go get Lance for less money, he can mentor PJ - I kid. But please don't spend just to spend...I'd rather we pick up some bad contracts and picks at this point.
Please no Marvin Williams, or any 4 for that matter unless it's Love or comparable.
Posted by: Rob Butler | Jul 9, 2014 5:18:48 PM
Take a chill pill dude. The ballpark is great. Romare Bearden park is great. Just another nice addition to the city. You're the only one I've ever heard that doesn't like it. You don't think it's a selling point for the condo realtors?
I don't hate Jake Delhomme, but he deserved to get booed during that game, as well as the rest of the team. I don't expect the Panthers to go 12-4 every year but back-to-back playoffs once in 18 years isn't too much to ask for, is it?
You're way off on Adam Morrison. He recovered from his injury and then did what? Sat on the bench for the Lakers and played overseas. Great.
Boris did quit, that's why Silas hated him.
Posted by: apauldds | Jul 9, 2014 5:34:02 PM
booing him the one game is not what i'm talking about. i'm talking about how every time you hear his name now, it's in negative light.
morrison sat behind kobe and artest on championship teams. is that an indictment of his capabilities? kobe himself said otherwise. please run back the tape of his season post ACL. brown hated that dude and put him in horrible spots. he played pretty well given the context. his shooting % was garbage because brown would put him in EVERY TIME there was a .6 seconds on the clock situation for him to launch prayers up. run the tape back. you are going off of perception and not facts.
and you're missing the point about the ballpark entirely. it IS great. I love baseball more than most. i'm not anti ballpark. I'm anti using 40 million dollars of PUBLIC tax money (from a tourism based tax) for a PRIVATE business that doesn't generate tourism. and let's not rule out the fact that cannon was a late swing vote in that process. The park does more to sell the condos and i'm absolutely not complaining about the park. that was public money for public use. you could argue that the baseball stadium is too, but the city doesn't own the stadium or profit from it ($1/year long term lease).
It's EXACTLY the same as nascar hall of fame from a financial standpoint, it's just more popular with the average charlotte resident.
unpopular opinion doesn't mean a wrong opinion. it's unpopular to say michael jackson was a child molestor, too even though the guy admitted to sleeping and showering with underage kids that weren't his own. My opinions are unpopular, but they are based on facts. That's the whole point here. diaw did the exact opposite of quit. his agent was asking for an extension. if you knew him, he loved it here. Silas hated the fact that he wasn't a rugged finisher in the paint that he could post up 20 times a game. diaw had the talent to do so, but that wasn't his game. it wasn't natural for him. they clashed because of THAT. he didn't ask out of those games, he was benched. silas had the exact same kind of run in later with tyrus thomas.
everybody keeps blaming the players and not the management (previously - seems to be correcting itself somewhat now). augustin had a helluva year last year. ajinca has resurfaced in new orlean's rotation. morrison played great in euroleague, turned around and dominated summer league and couldn't get an offer. why? stigma.
the picks were never the problem. the development and impatience with the development of the picks was the problem. and all of the delusional charlotte sports fans that aren't patient with zeller and mkg and biz who are all STILL under 22 (for the next bit) and will surely be that way when vonleh looks like a deer in headlights.
vonleh isn't even 19 yet. he's on the same mkg and biz plan. he's going to need the entire rookie scale contract to make up for college. people have to be patient.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2014 6:00:05 PM
MKG and upside? HA! Coaches are hired to improve your scoring; not fix your mechanics. There are tons of forms that are not considered mechanical, but notice other teams do not hire specialists to fix their shots (Bill Cartwright, Shaq, Clyde Drexler, Joakhim Noah, etc) but improve their chances of scoring.
The only reason he is still around is because we missed on Bradley Beal and the front office is trying to justify his selection (quasi-bust).
Hayward helps spread the court unlike MKG or Henderson. Spend the money and show the rest of the league that organization is willing to pay for young talent.
Btw, his handles are horrible as well; Did they hire a coach to work on his lack of ability to dribble with his left hand? Go watch his games; notice he only drives to his right hand (or one bounce to his left then attempts an acrobatic layup). Thats not what wins in this league; nor is it a play you can diagram. Need more versatility.
Please pass on Marvin Williams.
As for videos, does this show promise??
High School Promise - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbH8rWm5Wuw
NBA Promise - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS6U4NwaCfY
Posted by: Hmm | Jul 9, 2014 6:01:26 PM
kid is a stud, just wait.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2014 6:25:37 PM
Been saying it for about two weeks, if we are to go for Hayward at this price, a sign and trade that will include Gerald Henderson and MKG would benefit both sides.
Quin Synder can attempt to improve MKG's game as the Jazz are not expect to compete for a playoff spot. Jeff Taylor has more of an upside than MKG. I would love to see him progress, but his skills does not pass the "eye" test.
Once the Lebron "decision" is made final, go after Sessions or Steve Blake for backup PG role. Hey, shoot for Pau Gasol too if possible (which I doubt but we need a stretch four to create more space for Big Al).
Posted by: Hmm | Jul 9, 2014 6:41:51 PM
if you yell at this guy he will fold up like a cheap tent, he has no heart whatsoever.
Posted by: stan | Jul 9, 2014 7:07:08 PM
"I'm anti using 40 million dollars of PUBLIC tax money (from a tourism based tax) for a PRIVATE business that doesn't generate tourism."
Bingo! And the damn beers are $12 per!! Brooklyn Cyclones only charge $6.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 9, 2014 7:15:23 PM
There isn't a fan or anyone that thinks this kid is grossly overpaid . He will never live up to his contract ESP here bc he won't get the ball .hes making more than Jefferson who's playing fir 80 m . And Kemba who's trying to play for 45 m . Mkg is going to shoot every tine he gets the ball . And lock this kid up in practice . If you were going to throw some money at someone , it should be Parsons who's better . Whatever , Clifford is behind some of this bc he wants a sf that can shoot , has length and can spread . Plus pass helping out Kemba who you can't win w . If you think Kemba will defer , you're nuts . All he's thinking is about Kyries contract . This is a mess . As soon as Hayward gets on the floor , they going at him like they did McRoberts . When you see him in the mix w Jefferson and Kemba who don't pass and the losses mount , he's the scapegoat at 16 m a yr . What a mess . Who are they better ? Wizards ? Bulls ? Miami? Pacers ? Clevland ? Nets ? Atlanta ? Pistons ?
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 9, 2014 7:36:45 PM
henderson + mkg + 15 million and change per year is WAY too much for hayward. he is good. he is NOT that good. for love, sure. but why would you do all of that when you could just have stephenson for around 10-11 a year and give up nothing?
interesting to see what happens with parsons. mark cuban might make him the new dirk in dallas. quietly brilliant move by giving him a 3 year deal because even matching the offer means the kid can opt out after 2 and be unrestricted which means he'll be available again 2 summers from now at age 27 and unrestricted even if they match. the subtly effed houston either way and gave the kid great leverage for his career while not committing too big of a total dollar figure to him.
but on the reverse.....beverly/harden/parsons/bosh/howard has to be a favorite to win it. jones, motiejunas, and casspi off the bench is a decent start there, also. they will surely grab a bunch of bandwagoneers for the minimum and somebody quality for an exception.
things are going to move faster after midnight than they have thus far and i don't think there will be much left come the 13th.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 9, 2014 10:18:53 PM
^^^you are talking about the 6th beat defensive team in the league. You act like you know hoops, but you don't know jack. McRoberts skill on defensive would not be obvious to someone like you that does not understand the finer points of positioning and communication. Al can't play D. Kemba can't keep people out of the lane. Everyone goes at McRoberts. That is some funny stuff right there
Posted by: Actual Player | Jul 9, 2014 10:23:34 PM
Derrick Rose is my kind of guy . It's about time someone spoke the truth about these ball hogs . He said he didnt care to recruit Melo bc he wasn't a team leader and didnt share the ball . We all know its true bc we see it everyday w Melo . And you can't win w the failure to move the ball . We see the Spurs move it to the tune of running the Heat in the ground . The only way to beat them is to swing it as much as they do . Like Pop said , if you don't move it you die . The Hornets better move it . Doubt it tho .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 9, 2014 10:28:07 PM
Gordon would be a great pick up, but I'm sure Utah is setting there with 30million in cap. Ready to match.Because forget about the money who wants to play in Utah really.
Posted by: Rahshon Gamble | Jul 9, 2014 11:41:08 PM
^^^^another classic. I have some required viewing for you. Watch some USA Basketball and you will see Melo's ability to distribute with the right teammates. Man, it is literally like you know absolutely nothing about hoops and just sit around and make stuff up.
Posted by: Actual Player | Jul 9, 2014 11:41:29 PM
A sign and trade with Utah For MKG and Gerald Henderson, future 1st rd pk.
Posted by: Rahshon Gamble | Jul 9, 2014 11:46:53 PM
@Charlottean: Don't worry, bro---
"they can't sign him to a contract. just an offer sheet. and it will get matched no matter how maximized the maxmimum offer can be. and i honestly doubt they even have the balls to make that offer."
Posted by: the Dude | Jul 10, 2014 1:11:27 AM
offer sheet, check.
utah matching it......? clock starts now.
going to be interesting to see this next week play out.
summer league DVR check for the other addicts
- friday @ 8:30 against the warriors
- sunday @ 6 against the kings
- monday at 4 against the knicks
tourney from there. looking forward to seeing who will be the next troy daniels/alan anderson. and hairston hopefully not punching people that outplay him.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 10, 2014 2:04:55 AM
So in trying to prove a point, what point that is I have no clue, Charlottean brings up the Panthers, minor league baseball, NASCAR and Michael Jackson. Nice.
If all Charlotte sports fans are so stupid I think you need to move where all the fans are intelligent and educated. Where is that by the way?
Posted by: apauldds | Jul 10, 2014 7:26:30 AM
Actual player . Tell me one yr in his career w the Nuggets or Knicks , stupid , did he not ball hog . He didnt have a chance to ball hog w superstars idiot . It takes a conscience not to ball hog w teammates like Dirk , Duncan , Parker , Ginobli , James , Wade , Shaq , Piecre , Pau ,Kg , Allen and even Kobe did getting his 5 rings . They all played w role players and passed . And it's Rose's comment so take it up w him dumb ass . What have you ever posted here about bb anyway other than to bitch ?
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 10, 2014 8:22:54 AM
Ball hogs never get out the first round . Parsons is th guy to throw big money at . Utah can play like they will match but they're sweating bc this guy was grossly overpaid , the trade kicker , he disappears , plays average defense , shot 30% from the arc , have to pay Exum and Burke in the future and he was not even the second best player on the team and this yr won't be the third best . Melo will stay in NYC . Bosh will play in Houston and in the West . James will play w Kyrie and Love in Clevland this yr and win the East . The only way James stays if he can fit Melo in w the Heat . But this is slim . The Hornets will have to sign n trade to get someone bc they won't come here unless paid stupidly like the Hayward offer until you get rid of the two ball hogs . Mkg will get revenge on the
Hornets after his jump shot is fixed which it is . Once the starting wings are shipped ,the defense will decline out of the top ten . The wings will go on to shine in two separate stops and get revenge for being totally disrespected here as scapegoats .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 10, 2014 8:51:57 AM
I guess Marvin .Williams is a decent defender but he , Tyreke and Amino are the dumbest bb players in the nba . It's a reason he can't stick w any team he's on . He's a tweener but I anything is an upgrade on defense at pf over McRoberts . He can play big sfs too but is simply a pure dummy on offense . The Hornets are a mess . They keep trying to build around Kemba but it's impossible bc you cant suck at passing and defense too and expect a winner . Same w the center position . You can't suck at defense and passing and win . I stand by this ... Until you get rid of Jefferson at center AND Kemba at starting point , you will never get out the first round . Ever . The two guys being shopped are the two that should be most coveted together w Zeller and Vonleh . But these 4 are the ones being shopped . The rest of the nba knows who can play and what are real assets . Cho has no clue . Mj is about filling the seats and is doing a masterful job . But if you want a winner , it starts w upgrading the two ball hogs as Charloteean says . Name a team that gets to the second round or wins a ring that does not have 4 two way players starting . The two way players on the team are Henderson . Mkg . Zeller and Vonleh . The 4 being shopped . When they get to their respective stops , they will have a coach w a creative bb mind unlike Clifford who's dull on offense and brilliant on defense , thus they suffer .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 10, 2014 9:10:14 AM
applauds - i'm not at all surprised you can't comprehend the point(s). you argued that condos were built uptown because we put a triple A baseball park next to our NFL stadium. because no condos were ever built before AAA baseball came to town. look in the mirror dude. rethink your life.
all around the world i've encountered random as hell people watching a game at a restaurant/hotel bar that knew more about basketball than the people back home. and i'm talking specific to charlotte's team, too.
show me all of the cities that boo the former player who didn't do anything to deserve it, talk negatively about the best quarterback in franchise history, and have a ton of adults - who don't go to the games to begin with - demanding that the mascot and jersey colors get changed. because that's what adults care about. not the game. not the players. the effing mascot and jerseys.
it's just truths. why the hell was cody zeller booed? because people wanted.......alex len? ben mclemore? i know it wasn't nerlens noel they wanted because everybody told me i was an idiot to want him (and zeller 2nd). YOU HAVE TO SEE HOW DUMB THIS ISH IS. YOU HAVE TO. it's possible to do this kind of stuff without thinking, but i can't imagine anyone who can handle using a computer or smart phone/tablet long enough to type a sentence has to see how dumb it is to boo a guy for absolutely no effing reason.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 10, 2014 9:44:28 AM
Like I said, move to where all the sports fans are intelligent, where money grows on trees and unicorns frolick in the meadows. Rethink your negative life.
Posted by: apauldds | Jul 10, 2014 9:58:35 AM
It looks like a given that the Jazz match--
if they hadn't matched though, and we're stuck with him, I'd love to see Clifford go with a big lineup and slide MKG to the starting 2.
A 6ft7in SG guard would be sick - he'd make the other team's guard bloody miserable-
Posted by: the Dude | Jul 10, 2014 11:36:27 AM
Come on guys . Learn some bb . Mkg cannot for the life of him even reasonably play sg . Even Jax struggled w it . Taylor is not a sg . Guys can play the position but there's a huge difference . Mkgs lateral quickness was not great at the combines . He cannot cover sgs on defense . He can't move wo the ball much now . It would be glaring at sg . There's a ton of other stuff but ain't worth getting into . Just bc both are calked wings doesn't mean the duties are the same . They aren't . Not close . You can get by but the team suffers . Stop saying dumb stuff .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 10, 2014 12:30:07 PM
life isn't negative dude, nobody said the city sucks....this city is easy to make money in. nice neighborhoods, nice women. nice location, few natural disasters comparatively. decent weather comparatively. good cost of living. safe. clean. etc. etc. etc.
horrible, idiotic sports fans.
part of it is because the city is "new" and doesn't have a major university here. almost none of the smart people under 45 are from here/root for the teams here. people over 45 didn't grow up major sports franchises here.
and ironman - yeah mkg absolutely can. offense doesn't matter position wise, it just matters if you can guard opponents or not. there aren't a lot of guys 1-4 that MKG can't guard. he's guarded lebron, dirk, KD, and at times some point guards. jeff taylor can guard (assuming he returns to his previous self) anybody 1-3 as well. jackson struggled because he was 32. when jackson was 25, he didn't struggle with it at all.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 10, 2014 12:54:32 PM
LOL…. Iron Man, to say "learn some bb" and "MKG can't cover shooting guards" in the same sentence is hilarious. You obviously know nothing about defense, but that's the beauty of the internet.
Posted by: the Dude | Jul 10, 2014 1:35:32 PM
Look. Mkg is not a sg . His lateral agility skill is not to the level of Taylor's or Henderson . Go look where he tested out . He could improve it but not much . It's good btw but not as good as the both I just listed . I love Mkg . But he can't stay in front of sgs as well as Henderson can or Taylor bc the lateral agility is one of the most imp assets to do so . His body fat level was not close to what it should have been either . To say he can guard most starting point gds in the league is false . He can avoid getting Embarrased but he can't guard them. King James lateral quickness allows him to actually stay in front og pt gds . One of the reasons no sg has come in and torched Henderson or Taylor is bc of their lateral agility . There's a difference between sfs and sgs generally and here for sure . The claims a guy can cover 1 thru 4 or 1 thru 3 is mostly unfounded if not a joke . Both Henderson and Taylor will get their asses torn up by most starting pt gds too . Kemba would destroy both off the dribble as he would do Mkg . Go watch these guys in practice , close up at games or better go try and stay in front of some pt gds , then sgs , then sfs . There's a general stark difference between the positions unless you're someone like King James who many suspect has a body built out from a bottle . Did any if you guys play college level bb ? I'm not so sure by some if the ridiculous claims . I'm not sure some of you played at the Y or church league .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 10, 2014 2:24:05 PM
And Henderson is not a great ball handler . Neither is Taylor . But they both use their right hands way more than Mkg . To play sg , you must be able to dribble to spots and more . Mkg is all right . You could tape his left hand to his side . He's such a good r handed dribbler , you don't notice but push him left and he picks the ball up after a dribble . Henderson shuts down Harden easily bc he forces him r and refuses to allow him to recover left . It's hen guys like Sessions come in and allow them to heat up . Wade is different bc you can't touch Wade or James until they get to the ECF .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 10, 2014 2:29:09 PM
Sefolosha was one of the best defenders in the league for years playing at SG. Also an offensively challenged kid with similar size. MKG is 10 times quicker, more athletic and way better player than him. Saying MKG can't cover SG is the worst thing you have said so far. He would be an extremely better version of Tony Allen and Sefolosha. MKG have guarded Wade, Harden, Kobe, and many other SG in stretches and he does a MUCH BETTER job that Hendo at it.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 10, 2014 2:31:41 PM
I'm sorry . Both Henderson and Taylor use their left hands much more . They too , move wo the ball much more , play off the ball , screen and roll and pass more than Mkg . All stuff sgs must do more . Sgs must dribble drive more and have a mid range . The sfs must have the arc shot more , post up and don't straight dribble drive as much .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 10, 2014 2:32:03 PM
Also, Henderson didn't even came close to shutting down Harden killed the Bobcats in March 24th going for 31 on 11-19 and 4-7 3Pt. In their very first game of the season, eventhough Harden was just learning to play with Howard and he was a little out of game shape (his 3PT was not falling - wide open shots) he still shot 44% (on an off night) and score 21.
Henderson on the other hand went for 11pts 5-16 and 0-2 3Pt and 13pts 5-13 and 1-5 3Pt in the HOU and CLT respectively. And he played against Harden, one of the worst defenders at SG in the league. Now Harden is a guy who can't guard ANY wing player in the NBA.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 10, 2014 2:40:53 PM
where you get some of this stuff from is mind blowing. they "use their left hands much more"?
what the eff does that have to do with anything? the guy can guard any wing in the league and he can score on any wing in the league. what else is there to discuss?
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 10, 2014 2:42:05 PM
Look at the way Dunlap used Kemba and Henderson . They were the highest scoring back ct for a god while after the break the yr before . Kemba kept shooting when Cliftord got here but Henderson was used differently . He became a spot up guy . No moving from one side to the other off screens for a jumper . Few post ups . Much less two man game w McRoberts . Less back doors . He averaged 20 a game . Kembas movement off the ball was way better . All this changed under Clifford . Mkg became non existent . The transition game from the wings and back ct was non existent . Clifford believes in what Svg does . Dump into a big man and surround hm w spot up guys . But the winners had spot up guys who could dribble drive . Think Diaw , Ginobi , the sf MVP and Parker . All w mid range games too .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 10, 2014 2:44:28 PM
The only reason I would love to see a sing and trade with Utah that includes Henderson (or both Neal & Hairston), plus Taylor (not MKG) and any other player making $4M/Yr (Biyombo?), is becuase that would give us enough cash to also sign Lance Stephenson to $12M/Yr over 3 Yrs contract similar to Parson (giving him more mone and needed leverage). And the Hornets will still have both exceptions to work on a 3rd Center a 3rd PF and solid backup PG. Now that would be a solid young core with 4 potential borderline all-stars.
Kemba, Stephenson, Hayward, Zeller and Jefferson, with Sessions/Roberts(PG), Hendo or Hairston, MKG, Vonleh and another solid center off the bench (Jason Smith or Jordan Hill) will be great.
Posted by: Go Hornets! | Jul 10, 2014 2:54:13 PM
I love Mkg . But am objective . I also watch games and know what he can do . He can't score on any wing in the league bc he doesn't and averages 7 pts . Worse , he struggled in the summer league which spoke volumes about him . He's not being used correctly but stop making up stuff like he can score at will implicitly on any wing . Let's be real here .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 10, 2014 3:21:24 PM
struggled in summer league? you might want to fact check on that one. dude was dominant as an 18 year old rookie. last year he scored 11 a game on 54% shooting in 28 minutes.
he can't score without the ball and he was something close to 300th in the league in touches last year. way to use facts. his PPP was SOLID. he just needs the effing ball.
only guy shutting him down is clifford.
and you can't be critical about a guy's summer league game AND disregard that adam morrison dominated summer league on multiple occasions. most recently.....had a vegas crowd (impartial mind you) chanting "MVP" his last go of it.
you guys are reinforcing my argument right now.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 10, 2014 3:51:00 PM
Mkg struggled in his second yr in the summer league or the one coming off his rookie season . He didnt have close to the league play Taylor did and did not dominate as a second yr summer league guy should do ESP if he's a lotto pick . He didnt shoot well or take guys off the dribble well . Forget the stats . It doesn't count for much but you must dominate in the second yr if you're to have a probable shot at doing anything in the league . Don't talk to me about Morrison . Don't talk to me about Biz either . These guys both are done .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 10, 2014 4:29:25 PM
I'm glad Clifford says Hayward significantly improves the wing positions . It was a slap at Neal , Mkg and Henderson . When Hayward comes and struggles , it will be on him and confirm he's a dummy on offense and not creative outside dump it into Jefferson . Ever notice how guys run hard when a pass first pt gd is on the floor ? They know they will get the ball off cuts , back doors and in transition . Here you get no hand offs , so cuts are lazy . You know the break will be stalked , so you never run the lanes . Smdh .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 10, 2014 4:35:04 PM
he had already dominated the year before. he was out there doing specific things and letting taylor do his thing. you can't say a guy that shot 54%, scored 11 ppg in 28 minutes and played ridiculous D "struggled"
that's just making ish up. taylor put up a ton of points. mkg did that the year before. struggling is what jeremy lamb is doing right now.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 10, 2014 4:40:44 PM
"not to ball hog w teammates like Dirk , Duncan , Parker , Ginobli , James , Wade , Shaq , Piecre , Pau ,Kg , Allen"
Iron Man. You do realize you just listed a bunch of guys that are teammates except for Dirk right? The only thing I bitch about are your moronic comments. You obviously watch very little basketball. Melo can dish and if you put him with KG and Pierce for instance he would have been the main facilitator for sure. Put him with any of those players and he would be one of the top passing wings in the NBA. He literally was the best passer on team USA. If you actually watched that is. He is scoring because he is asked to.
Of course you are the same guy that says no one on the 6th best D in he league can play defense. Now MKG can't gaurd 2's. Every time you say something dumb, you top it with something dumber.
Posted by: Actual Player | Jul 10, 2014 5:24:27 PM
i have to cosign that melo can pass.
only guy in last year's lineup that couldn't play defense was jefferson. mcroberts wasn't elite, but he wasn't a problem. kemba's only problem defensively is size.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 10, 2014 5:37:23 PM
Actual player .. I mean stupmo. There's isn't a pundit that covers the nba that wouldn't agree that Melo is a ball hog . Proof is that like Jefferson , he's never gone anywhere in the playoffs . I watch Melo more than you idiot . It's not that Melo can't pass , he refuses to . Yeah he passed in the Olympics . He would have sat if he didnt . The point is he had a chance to over the yrs w various teammates but as w Jefferson he chose not to or to a significantly reduced level losing games . If you think you can win w reluctant passers like Jefferson or Melo , your not only misguided , your amazingly stupid . . The losses come from not only the failure to pass but to play defense. Neither one does to any appreciable degree . It's all about money .
The overwhelming majority conclude from past yrs at stops at Denver w Melo and Utah w Jefferson that each respective player was an out n out ball hog costing wins . They didnt pass , whether they could is insanely immaterial . They didnt . If you dont , dummy , you lose .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 10, 2014 8:47:07 PM
There wasn't a top 15 pf that didnt come in here and literally waste and abuse McRoberts . There wasn't a starting g pt gd outside of the bottom 5 that didnt come in here and either abuse Kemba or get in the lane at will in the 4 th to totally break he and the defense down . Jeffferson was beyond a hot mess and was pathetic . The defensive stats here under were contrived and obliterated in the playoffs .. As they should be . The policy of defending wo fouling was taken too far and was a joke . The policy of keeping refusing to fastbreak to keep turnovers down so defensive stats looked good was taken too far . The policy of allowing Kemba being the only handler in transition to keep turnovers down and make defensive stats look better was equally stupid and taken too far . All these policies were exposed in the playoffs and hurt the team . These guys needed an uptempo game to compliment the dump into Jefferson policy . You had amazing athletes that were never turned loose . This is on Clifford . But let's be real here too . Jefferson , McRoberts and Kemba were suckers on defense . As I've stated herein before , at some point in a defensive set , each guy must play on ball defense . Not one of those three could to even league average . In fact much below that .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 10, 2014 9:07:05 PM
carmello averages an efficient 25 a game and gives you 3 assists per game as well. you don't really want him passing more unless he's playing with someone else that can score like him. he hasn't done that in his career. that's why he's looking at miami/chicago/la/etc. he hasn't played with anybody, really. a lost bargani is the closest thing he's had to a #2 since stoudemire has been hurt so much.
it's not a realistic complaint to argue about guys like melo and jefferson not passing enough when their coaches are specifically instructing them to shoot, and they are scoring efficiently. it's a coaching issue, not a player issue. could apply to kemba as well, but I don't think clifford is saying "force it up and don't try to create shots for others" to kemba.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 10, 2014 9:30:17 PM
top 15 guys are supposed to abuse their opponents, that what makes them above average nba players.
every team can't have a top 15 guy at every position. mcroberts is far from top 15. your statement is exactly like saying:
"the guys that are better than everybody else were better than mcroberts too"
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 10, 2014 9:41:26 PM
Exposed in the playoffs? Against the Heat . You are really using that as an example? With and injured Jefferson. You really are beyond stupid. But then again you are not an actual player and would have no clue about any of what you are talking about. It is painfully obvious. What a joke.
Posted by: Actual Player | Jul 10, 2014 10:09:03 PM
Look. No coach is telling Kemba to dribble drive into the paint and force wild shots at the rim . That's what he does routinely in hopes of getting a foul , out of selfishness or a prayer it may go in . ESP if a teamate is open . The same for Jefferson . He's actually crafty at taking shots out of double teams . It's when teamnates are wide open for better shots that's the problem . Theses guys don't make good decisions . Teamnates can make layups . Teammates can take handoffs after losing defenders off Jeffersons hip only to watch Jefferson ignore the play and shoot it . You can't defend this . Both do not pass when they should for higher oer centage shots . Actual player ... Your recent comments are so incoherent and stupid they're beyond something one could respond to . It's patently obvious you don't know any bb so I'm going to ignore you as a pure simpleton .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 11, 2014 7:07:40 AM
Justifying McRoberts horrific defense in the manner you finally did is below you Charlotean . Stop w it . He's terrible as the Heat shall see . The Hornets will miss his passing and ball movement . The Hornets will no longer suffer his putrid on ball defense which hurt them badly in the 4 th quarter down the stretch . It didnt take much stategy to beat the Hornets . Stay close all game . In the 4 th abuse either Jefferson , Kemba or McRoberts . By whomever had the advantage . It was often McRoberts as many nights as it was Kemba or Jefferson . Trying to defend him by saying 15 better guys in the league at of should abuse him is baseless .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 11, 2014 7:16:59 AM
below me? it's called logic. logic is never below me or anybody.
mcroberts wasn't even a top 15, let alone top 30 pick in his draft class, let alone top 15 in his position. probably (almost definitely) not top 30 at his position. so when you say "top 15 power forwards abused him".....all you are saying is that the better guys played better than him. which is an obvious, idiotic statement. of course they did. he made 2.7 million last year, he'll make 5 and change this year. he's not a 10 million plus guy. 10 million plus guys SHOULD destroy him. top draft picks SHOULD destroy him.
bosh, davis, aldridge, dirk, love, randolph, west, griffin, etc. should destroy him. they destroy EVERYBODY. show me the guys that stop those guys. there aren't any. mcroberts not being able to stop them isn't an indictment of his ability to play defense. he's no ibaka, but he's also no jefferson. he's a mid level guy making mid level money doing mid level things.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2014 11:23:35 AM
Does anyone else think that since Fowler stated we shouldn't get Lance, that that is exactly what we should do?
Posted by: Rob Butler | Jul 11, 2014 12:24:47 PM
From what I see here, we should do the opposite of whatever Iron Man says. Amazing he doesn't have a job working in the NBA. Not!
Posted by: Michael | Jul 11, 2014 1:10:50 PM
what's the difference between what richard sherman does and what lance stephenson does?
free pass because he went to stanford?
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2014 1:23:34 PM
ok so if we aren't going to make a move for love, why on earth would we not get involved to get wiggins and bennett in a 3 way?
i mean talk about blood in the water.....MAKE AN EFFING MOVE ALREADY. this isn't about impatience, this about opportunities passing by over and over and over and over. we don't have a franchise player that you can build around and when guys like wiggins are being tossed aside, you gotta look at ways to make it happen.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2014 1:38:25 PM
@Charlottean, have you not noticed THE ENTIRE league being bottlenecked until the LBJ decision?
I'm with ya on the Wiggins/Bennent thing but what would the Cavs want? Vonleh?
And don't say Jefferson or Kemba for obvious reasons although I'd love to see it happen, myself.
Posted by: the Dude | Jul 11, 2014 2:12:28 PM
^^ I mean, they've already tried their very very best to overpay Hayward; that's been one of the few real moves so far this offseason; what else do ya want?
Posted by: the Dude | Jul 11, 2014 2:14:29 PM
It's not what cleveland wants, it's what minnesota wants. i doubt vonleh appeals to them all that much.
you do know lebron announced like 2 and a half hours ago, right?
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2014 2:35:48 PM
trying to overpay hayward knowing that utah would match is not the same as stealing andrew wiggins from the lebron aftermath.
could you imagine wiggins and MKG playing together???? holy effing sharknados that would be ridiculous.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2014 2:37:52 PM
King James wants snipers if you can't play defense . Long range ones . The rest of guys he wants must play both offense and defense . He would never play w Jefferson . He probably would not play w Kemba bc he can't shoot , can't facilitate or worse play defense . He would take Tolliver . He would take Taylor or Mkg to sick on wings so he could rest and score . He would take Henderson too bc he's versatile in defending , driving , mid range and sheer hustle . I don't see Cho going after Wiggins to pair him w Mkg . Neither can play sg although we fundamentally disagree on this . Jax played sg here . He was better than henderson . But Henderson played sg much better for the team . It had nothing to do w Jaxes age bc he fared well for two yrs after his departure here . I agree w getting
Wiggins at all costs . But he's no sg . Not close . The consummate sf tho and will be a beast . A beast . But it's win now w King James . I wouldn't put the great stock in Kyrie bc he stays hurt , has a ton of real malingering injuries , can't play defense and has never learned to play off the ball . He's great and can but he's lazy . He can facilitate but he's trifling . It's different than Kemba bc he has the ct vision and split second decision making and can actually run the pick n roll . I would move him for Bledsoe straight up and get Love . I would trust someone to find me another pf that projects out that's less costly than Love bc he doesn't play defense . One thing about the big threes in the last decade , they all played defense except Dirk and that was a win possibly bc James n gang were new . If not bc of the tremendous defense of Matrix and Tyson covering him .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 11, 2014 4:09:46 PM
Kirk Heinrich would be a good back up . He plays defense , passes , is smart and compliments Kemba . The question is how much energy does he have left ?
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 11, 2014 4:55:08 PM
If the Spurs get Pau and the Rockets Bosh , that's the wcf . And the Cavs will play the Ecf vs the Wizards or Pacers . If the Cavs get Love , it's the Spurs vs the Cavs . Spurs win again . Pau to the Spurs is unfair only bc they're too deep and will be even more rested . W a great great interior passer . Simply unfair to drop to a team he fits on all fours w . A Spurs guy .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 11, 2014 5:11:27 PM
you can play wiggins and MKG together.
and again....it's what minnesota wants, not what cleveland wants. we could send jefferson and a pick to minnesota, cleveland send bennett that way with a pick, maybe waiters, they get love, we get wiggins.
we could take back martin into cap space. i'm just spitballing here but the point is.....cleveland is selling some pieces. even if we just took waiters off their hands so they could sign somebody else, waiters could be something.
if miami brings back bosh and wade and gets somebody in the deng/stephenson/ariza area.....they will still be among the elite and the east doesn't get any more realistic for us to compete. worse, actually with love surely coming east. anything we can do to get wiggins should be done. even entertaining the idea of a vonleh for bennett swap might be worth looking at.
time to make some moves.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2014 5:18:06 PM
I'm sure there's a lot of talk going on between Cho and various managers and agents, but we aren't going to hear anything until after Utah matches Heyward's offer.
Posted by: apauldds | Jul 11, 2014 5:21:08 PM
is brendan haywood still going to cleveland? that was reported like it was a done deal, but know they say gee got traded to new orleans to facilitate asik trade.
as look as haywood ends up in cleveland, mission accomplished. if he doesn't, what the eff happened there?
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2014 5:33:37 PM
wiggins deal should be worked REGARDLESS. could always flip hayward later, or figure out a way to play the 3 of them in a ridiculous rotation. I mean offer 3 firsts + vonleh if you have to. anything you can do to get that guy to charlotte should be explored. those kind of guys (bennett, too) do not become available normally.
sneaky lost value in the cleveland deal.......gee having a disappearing contract could have been flipped in another deal. not the same deal getting hopson instead. similar, but not exactly the same. still awesome to no longer have haywood on the roster. i guess cho got the go ahead on that once they drafted hairston and not before.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2014 5:47:45 PM
jesus christ did you all just see anthony bennett???!!!
minnesota is agreeing to trade about any minute now.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2014 9:05:55 PM
Both Wiggins and Bennett are making the case that you better think twice about sending them anywhere . I know it's summer league but the shots they're taking along w the moves translate . Bennett is in shape . Wiggins looks like the quickest sf of all time . And he's fast .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 11, 2014 9:08:49 PM
jefferson, vonleh, and picks to minnesota for wiggins and bennett and martin and whatever other bad salaries either team wants to include. throw in a jordan brand endorsement deal for flip saunders to come out with the official line of coaches sneakers.
come on cho.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2014 9:21:03 PM
if someone told me hairston was going to make 2 field goals AND outscore vonleh by 7 points, I would have guessed vonleh didn't play or hairston set a summer league record for free throws made.
no need to overreact to game one but DAMN. even more appreciation for the talent that is MKG (and zeller for that matter). hairston has played very well against better competition in the last year.
no need to worry, he was probably high and or traded jump shots with josh gordon for the weekend.
if you could pick between royce white or p.j. hairston......who would you rather have RIGHT now? so debatable.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 11, 2014 11:09:36 PM
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