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July 01, 2014

How Shaun Livingston might fit as a Hornet if he returns to Charlotte

1gnUiC.St.138Could point guard Shaun Livingston end up back in Charlotte, where he played for the Bobcats the 2010-11 season?

A knowledgeable source confirms the Hornets reached out to Livingston’s representatives overnight just after the start of NBA free-agency. The Hornets need a backup point guard and the 6-foot-7 Livingston would offer a contrast to 6-foot-1 starter Kemba Walker.

ESPN’s Marc Stein first reported the Hornets’ interest in Livingston. Stein also linked the Kings, Timberwolves, Magic and Spurs to Livingston.

The Nets have such a big payroll next season – a projected $88 million, well beyond the luxury-tax threshold – that it could be difficult for that franchise to match other teams’ offers for Livingston.

Livingston has played eight NBA seasons, overcoming a horrific knee injury he suffered in 2007 while playing for the Los Angeles Clippers. That game was against the then-Bobcats. Livingston landed awkwardly on a breakaway layup, his left leg giving way. He suffered multiple ligament tears, a dislocated kneecap and doctors feared he might need an amputation due to blood-flow concerns.

Livingston recovered, and has since played for six other NBA franchises including the Bobcats. His most recent season, with the Brooklyn Nets, was arguably his best.

Livingston played 76 games and started 54, paired in the backcourt with Deron Williams. Livingston’s size allows him to guard either point guards or shooting guards. He doesn’t have 3-point range (17 percent last season), but he shot 48 percent from the field, mostly by posting up smaller guards to launch short jump shots.

Livingston would seemingly fit Hornets coach Steve Clifford’s desire for a taller, longer roster. Playing Williams and Livingston together allowed the Nets to play Paul Pierce at power forward in a lineup that won a first-round playoff series against the Toronto Raptors.

The Bobcats signed Livingston in the summer of 2010. He played 73 games that season, averaging 6.6 points and 2.2 assists. There was some concern at the time whether Livingston’s knee had sufficiently recovered that he could be counted on as an every-game player, but his performance last season suggested otherwise.

The Bobcats traded Livingston and Stephen Jackson to the Milwaukee Bucks in June of 2011 in a three-way deal that included the Sacramento Kings. That acquired the draft rights to center Bismack Biyombo.

Livingston originally accepted a scholarship to play at Duke, but then turned pro out of high school in 2004. The NBA later changed its draft-entry rule, so that American players couldn’t enter the draft until at least one year removed from high-school graduation.

Photo: Associated Press

Posted by Observer Sports on July 1, 2014 at 12:54 PM | Permalink


I'd love to see him back just so I can hear "Big Pat" call his name after a basket!

Posted by: Fred S | Jul 1, 2014 1:07:40 PM

I like this a lot-

Posted by: the Dude | Jul 1, 2014 1:18:41 PM

If Shaun Livingston returns to the Boobs he better be in the starting lineup...

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 1, 2014 1:37:27 PM

Shaun Livingston will be a nice 2nd string PG to back-up Kemba.

Posted by: Hot Sauce | Jul 1, 2014 1:42:05 PM

LOL "he better be in staring lineup..."

who is this guy?

Posted by: Geroge | Jul 1, 2014 1:43:22 PM

should have never been included in the deal to get biyombo. there were other ways to make that deal happen.

He will be expensive to be a backup pg. he deserves to start somewhere for the next 2-3 years. definitely a good fit to play with jefferson.....easiest way to make entry passes is with a big guard.

that all said, i think evan turner could accomplish a lot of the same things, be a little younger with almost equal experience and he might go SUPER cheap. for the same price i'd go livingston all day, but if we're talking 3.5 vs. 7 million.....i'd have to go with the discount.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 1, 2014 1:46:36 PM

Rick Bonnell- hey, man; not dogging you out (and perhaps you are required to go by what the Hornets say in the media guide),

……. but Walker is not 6-foot-1… or even close… just saying.

Posted by: the Dude | Jul 1, 2014 1:49:14 PM

I think we could get Shaun for around 4-5 million, worth it for a quality back-up point guard with size IMO.

Posted by: Hot Sauce | Jul 1, 2014 1:49:24 PM

for the millionth time about kemba's height.....

the guy measured 5'11.5 in socks, 6'1 in shoes at the combine. on tv. in front of ALL NBA personnel. where they scrutinize things like that.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 1, 2014 1:52:45 PM

Sure he's 6"1…. and I'm 7"2 and on my way to displace Greg Oden as top tall guy in Miami…

Posted by: the Dude | Jul 1, 2014 1:58:24 PM

absolutely worth 4-5 on a short term deal, i just doubt that's what he commands.

We're talking about a top 5 pick who would be a franchise pg right now on a max contract if he had never been injured. who hasn't been injured in the last several seasons. and we're also talking about another guy who can't shoot 3's. i've heard people say rondo wouldn't fit for that reason......livingston has only ATTEMPTED 49 3's in his career.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 1, 2014 2:00:07 PM

dude you must hate facts don't you?

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 1, 2014 2:01:40 PM

No worries Charlottean, I'm very comfortable with my perception of the game considering I've backed ya as you've battled with the knuckleheads on here.

Didn't think you were drinking the Kemba-Kool-Aid, but hey… I guess you like the challenge of taller guards licking their chops to post you up all day come playoff time.... More power to you, dude. ;-)

To validate my point, Steve Martin (Hornets radio guy) was on talk radio the other day, and he himself said Kemba was "Five feet…", then caught himself and "re-clarified" himself to say "6 foot".

I definitely trust what I see in front of my face and Steve's experience around the team more than the Kool-Aid you're drinking, bud. Go Mini-Me!


Posted by: the Dude | Jul 1, 2014 2:15:26 PM

He's already been offered starting jobs. Hard to imagine he'd come to Charlotte when teams want him as their guy.

Good player, can't shoot. Might as well go for Sessions, who always gets fouled.

Posted by: qdog112 | Jul 1, 2014 2:16:42 PM

How many pairs of socks?

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 1, 2014 2:29:08 PM

4 pairs of socks. max.

i'm not drinking the kool-aid at all. i don't think kemba's good enough. he can't shoot. I'm not at all disputing that. I absolutely want to upgrade the 1 and the 5 before anything else.

I'm just tired of it being about whether he's 5'11 or 6'1. he's not tall. his size IS a problem. but when he stands next to isaiah thomas, you can see what he is and isn't.

there's no way you can tell me combine measurements aren't credible. the broadcast them. you can find them on youtube. you can see player A standing next to player B right after their measurements.

That's the same as thinking the lottery is rigged even when they hire a 3rd party to handle it and have a rep from each franchise witnessing the entire process. there just isn't a lot of grey area in the league anymore. the refs are about the only thing.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 1, 2014 2:46:54 PM

if they're sold on kemba and aren't going to be looking at other starting caliber guys..........the backup we should be bringing in is seth curry. i said it last year, i'll say it again. you just don't lose anything. bring back sessions or whoever as a veteran presence and curry to be groomed.

he's going to be on a roster at the end of summer league.....it should be ours. minimum deal guys don't have that caliber of talent.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 1, 2014 3:01:00 PM

Kemba's 6'1" in shoes, but his standing reach is very low, which makes his effectiveness in the paint all the more amazing. Would love a bigger PG to back him up.

Posted by: DeLaQuest | Jul 1, 2014 3:13:58 PM

Chltn, Seth? He will never be an NBA player. Period. His one stint in CLE was a disaster. He can't play at this level. Next.

Posted by: Truth | Jul 1, 2014 3:20:59 PM

clttn, how tall are you?

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 1, 2014 3:25:29 PM

Years later people still worrying about Kemba's height...

considering you don't play basketball barefoot, the measurement is with shoes on.

Wait, didn't Mugsy play here??? Wonder if people whined about his height the whole time?

Posted by: Geroge | Jul 1, 2014 3:32:13 PM

Good luck finding an upgrade at the 5. Don't know that many better than Big Al.

Posted by: jason | Jul 1, 2014 3:34:49 PM

i'm 6'2. kemba's not 6'2. he's also not 5'10.

jason - there aren't many 5's better, this is true....but there are 4's that are better and 5's that play defense alongside them. example: trading jefferson and picks for love.

as for seth curry.......he played a total of 13 minutes in nba games last year and went 1 for 3 from the field 2 steals no turns. how is that a disaster? he dominated the d-league last year to the tune of 20 and 6, 37% from 3 with volume.

i don't understand where you guys get some of this stuff from. disastrous?

same kind of people that think anthony bennett was a bust because mike brown didn't play him and then he got hurt. bennett had a few really nice games last year the few times he got to play.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 1, 2014 3:50:20 PM

If Love will sign a deal That would work though it would be nice to have him at 4 and Al at 5. Wouldn't mind Curry and for that matter McAdoo being brought in on a non guaranteed contract. Though Curry has a much better shot than McAdoo who I see playing in Turkey following Sean May's footsteps.

Posted by: jason | Jul 1, 2014 3:58:11 PM

what's the difference between love playing on a 1 year deal and jefferson playing on a 1 year deal?

I'd rather see what love + biz/zeller/vonleh could do. there's only 1 ball. and if you trade jefferson for love, you still have cap room to go get a bledsoe/waiters/stephenson/parsons or *gasp* rondo.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 1, 2014 4:03:44 PM


Ok, I'm a bit confused. Everyone is talking about the Hornets having close to $15M in Cap Space. This ESPN article has the Hornets with almost $24M in Cap Space. Based on the definition they are including the recently drafted picks, players under contract and any amounts to be paid of waivers. Is this article wrong or do the Hornets have more cap space than we think?

Posted by: Go Hornets! | Jul 1, 2014 4:21:15 PM

That's 6'2" without shoes, right?

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 1, 2014 4:41:57 PM

They have more than 15, less than 24.

They have 40mm committed to 8 players plus the 2 draft picks being around 3.5-3.75mm, that's ~43.5 out of a 63.2 cap. around 20 available with 10 roster spots taken.

the reason bonnell is reporting 15 is because of haywood still being on the books with the cleveland trade not being finalized until the 10th, and with a cap hold for mcroberts. to sign someone to a salary near 20 million, we just need to renounce mcroberts' rights. or if we resign him for say....4-4.5 million, we still have over 15 million to spend.

I'm pretty sure the league places about a million cap hold for each available roster spot, but that can be circumvented a little bit.

point is..........money isn't going to be the reason we can't sign someone. and once we're capped out, we still have exceptions to go above that.

we just have to be super careful of what we do now as we have core guys coming up for extensions in the next 2 years and al is either going to need to be replaced or resigned in that same time period.

which brings me back to love vs. jefferson. besides the age and talent disparity that leans love.....if jefferson has a great year he opts out, if he gets hurt he opts in. love is either signing a 5 year deal or he isn't, and you could still trade him again at the deadline if he doesn't opt in to the extra year before extending in the summer.

there's no chance we win a ring with jefferson as the guy, but there's a slight chance we do with love. so why on earth would you not go all in on that idea? jefferson + 3 firsts or vonleh and 2 firsts HAS to get that deal done and probably with the extension, too. kemba plus a pick for rondo. could easily have rondo, love and cap room for a 3rd to join the party aaaaaaaaaaaand still have zeller and mkg and hairston and biz and taylor in the core. and henderson.

they gotta think big. they don't get to re-do the rebuild this far in. any move that marginalizes MKG or Zeller without trading them for superstars are just bad moves. those are the building blocks. they already marginalized biz and then people complain about no improvement.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 1, 2014 4:45:53 PM

Based on my calculations (from www.hoophype.com) the Hornets should have close to $20M in Cap Space, after the draft and the Haywood trade (assuming they waived Alonzo Gee): (Rounded in Millions)

Kemba $3.4, Henderson $6.0, MKG $5.0, Taylor $1.0, Jefferson $13.5, Neal $3.3, Biyombo $4.0, Zeller $4.0, Pick#9 $2.1 and Pick#26 $1.0 = Total Salary $43.3M

The Salary Cap for 2014-2015 was set at $63.2M (Tax is $77.0M), which means the Hornets should have close to $20.0M ($19.9M) in avaliable Cap Space.

What is it that I'm missing? How much Cap Space do the Hornets really have?

Posted by: Go Hornets! | Jul 1, 2014 4:46:02 PM

No, I'm just under 6'1 in an unspecified amount of nba issued socks. and I'm definitely taller than Kemba but he's also not 5'10 in shoes.

Look, I thought he was shorter than he is, too. He just isn't. Not believing the combine measurements means teams are investing millions in bad information. just not believable.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 1, 2014 4:51:15 PM

only thing you are missing is the mcroberts cap hold, but that's reeeeeeeally irrelevant. every report i've read is that gee is getting waived immediately. as in.....not even getting a press conference.

I really don't see the point in mcroberts coming back unless we really really really want to be an 8 seed forever. hopefully he gets portland or GSW to grab him for MLE money.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 1, 2014 4:53:53 PM

No, were smart were gonna sign Jamar Nelson, he would fit us perfectly. Plus he is familiar with Steve and Patrick great fit,

Posted by: Rahshon Gamble | Jul 1, 2014 5:58:39 PM

nelson doesn't make us a contender. sure he would be a nice pickup, but that doesn't change anything. he or sessions or livingston or even mills...

the best available pg is rondo.
the best free agent is bledsoe.
after that........everybody says lowry, but I would say it's between livingston and augustin.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 1, 2014 6:18:15 PM

Shoes and socks don't count...

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 1, 2014 6:20:18 PM

he's 5'11.5, 6'1 in basketball shoes. there's nothing else to talk about.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 1, 2014 6:41:57 PM

Chris Paul is listed at 6'

Does that mean he 5'10" in socks?

Posted by: James | Jul 1, 2014 7:28:48 PM

5'11.75 in socks, 6'1 in shoes at the combine for CP3.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 1, 2014 7:57:57 PM

Chris Paul is also....

7× NBA All-Star (2008–2014)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2013)
4× All-NBA First Team (2008, 2012–2014)
All-NBA Second Team (2009)
All-NBA Third Team (2011)
4× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009, 2012–2014)
2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2008, 2011)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2006)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2006)
3× NBA assists leader (2008–2009, 2014)
6× NBA steals leader (2008–2009, 2011–2014)

....Shorty didn't even picked in the Rising Stars draft, no wonder.

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 1, 2014 8:03:34 PM

Jameer Nelson. Listed at 6'

How tall is he in socks 5'10"?

Posted by: James | Jul 1, 2014 8:09:19 PM

How is this relevant to Shorty?

Jameer is probably 5'9" in bare feet, makes Shorty 5'10" tops.

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 1, 2014 8:22:36 PM

That sucks about Livingston going to Warriors. That is who I wanted.

Posted by: DSHTG!! | Jul 1, 2014 9:49:17 PM

DSGTG!!!, me too. What with Cliftord's merit based system I think Shaun would have played the most minutes of any guard on the team... This idea that he would sit there and back up Shorty was laughable.

Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 1, 2014 11:39:02 PM

you guys want to keep speculating about peoples heights or go off of the TELEVISED MEASUREMENTS from their combines?

nelson measured 5'11 in socks, 6'0.25 in shoes.

sucks about mills, too. makes him hard to sign also. stephenson is there for the taking. 4 years 44 million trumps 5 years 44 million. is he worth it? who the eff knows. it's an absolute crap shoot. but I would respect the attempt more than giving it to a deng or ariza or some ish. stephenson has potential akin to james harden moving into the lead role.

and i do not think there is another guy we could get that could get kemba to stop shooting the way stephenson could. not to mention it would weaken an eastern conference opponent, meaning if melo stays put and lebron/bosh/wade don't take pay cuts......we could be in the mix. adding a deng or ariza just doesn't do that.

and yes, i think anything above 8 million a year is overpaying stephenson. but I also think he could look underpaid at 11 million a year when we look back a few years from now.

go big or go home after getting swept in the first round (I think that's how the phrase goes).

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 2, 2014 9:50:46 AM

Definitely bad about mills.
Stephenson is awesome inside the lines, he just scares me even when on sidelines in games ,would he be sitting with Jordan? Mean I could be wrong. Take that chance?I don't know looks like getting slim fast on the upper tier FA in this market.

Livingston just looks like a man on a mission. Loved him when he was here and thought maybe I was a little biased, but damn is he playing after watching him from a distance.

Posted by: DSHTG!! | Jul 2, 2014 12:01:40 PM

yeah i think the same way he looks up to larry, he would look up to jordan. and ewing for that matter.

i mean its not like the guy has been in the headlines for off the court antics. he's been in the headlines for being a menace ON THE COURT and not even in the jr smith way (even though they get compared a lot). Chris paul does a lot of the same stuff and then carries himself like the preacher's son off the court and people love him.

regardless of how scary it is.....it's one of the few ways we rise up from mediocrity given that they aren't going to give the ball to zeller and MKG and let them become stars through some growing pains.

first stephenson, then love. then who knows, maybe you make 1 more move, maybe you sit tight and can win with that 5 + solid rotation. but the alternatives to stephenson just aren't there. unless you go with waiters who i think is comparable talent and comparable crazy. the difference is.....guys won't respect waiters' game from day 1 like they would lance. and kemba isn't buddy-buddy with waiters like he is lance.

i think its time to make some ballsy moves. they sign a "safe" veteran and we go nowhere. you sign lance and it doesn't work? you send him back turkoglu style.

Posted by: charlottean | Jul 2, 2014 1:30:19 PM

Good point I agree.
I am ready for something to happen.

Summer league is gonna be awesome to watch.

Posted by: DSHTG!! | Jul 2, 2014 3:28:14 PM

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