July 04, 2014
Utah Jazz forward Gordon Hayward to visit Charlotte Hornets early next week
Forward-guard Gordon Hayward, one of the top free agents in this class, has scheduled a visit with the Charlotte Hornets for early next week, the Observer has learned.
Coming off his fourth NBA season with the Utah Jazz, the 6-foot-8 Hayward is a restricted free agent. The Cleveland Cavaliers brought him in for a visit this week, but were reportedly reluctant about providing him an offer sheet, on the reasoning the Jazz might match any offer.
The Hornets need a wing shooter-scorer, and Hayward, 24, fits that description. He averaged 16.2 points, 5.2 assists and 5.1 rebounds last season. His field-goal percentage slipped from 43.4 percent in the 2012-13 season to 41.3 percent last season, but that in part reflects the struggles the Jazz had after center Al Jefferson signed with the then-Bobcats and power forward Paul Millsap signed with the Atlanta Hawks.
Jefferson and Hayward are friends from their time together in Salt Lake City. Jefferson said at the news conference announcing his All-NBA selection that he planned to help recruit players to Charlotte.
Point guard Kemba Walker recruited Jefferson last season, warming him up for the presentation the then-Bobcats made in free-agency last July. Jefferson came to terms with the Bobcats on July 4 a year ago and went on to make third-team All-NBA.
The Hornets continue negotiations to re-sign power forward Josh McRoberts and are looking for a backup point guard. The Hornets contacted the agent for ex-Bobcat Ramon Sessions Friday.
Sessions, an unrestricted free agent, said in April he’d enjoy returning to Charlotte after the trade in February that sent him to the Milwaukee Bucks.
Posted by Observer Sports on July 4, 2014 at 12:25 PM | Permalink
Awesome, let's get Hayward!!!
Posted by: Hot Sauce | Jul 4, 2014 12:32:24 PM
We won't offer max and Utah will match anything, they might not match a max offer, that's about it. Pointless meeting since he is restricted.
Posted by: Elliot | Jul 4, 2014 12:42:18 PM
Wouldn't mind Hayward just don't offer what the Cavs reportedly offered. Sessions would be a nice pick up being he wants to be here and can probably get him at a good deal.
Posted by: jason | Jul 4, 2014 12:43:05 PM
Let's get Mcbob and Sessions too!!!
Posted by: Hot Sauce | Jul 4, 2014 12:48:55 PM
We will definitely try a sign and trade deal w/ Hayward before offering a max offer. We could get Hayward a lot cheaper this way and get rid of Henderson too! Win/Win situation
Posted by: Rob | Jul 4, 2014 12:51:55 PM
Yesssssssssss! I wanted the team to draft him!
Posted by: DS | Jul 4, 2014 12:53:23 PM
I wouldn't mind having Henderson coming off the bench. A stronger bench would make us a top 4 team in the east.
Posted by: DS | Jul 4, 2014 12:57:17 PM
I'd prefer Lance Stephenson. More dynamic, better defender and better stats.
Posted by: Larry | Jul 4, 2014 2:09:26 PM
Plus he's an unrestricted free agent and we all know Larry Bird's limit (44 million) extending him with the Pacers.
Posted by: Larry | Jul 4, 2014 2:11:33 PM
pointless meeting. the chances of getting him without it being a ridiculous sign and trade are slim to none.
stephenson is arguably more talented (defense is way better, the rest is comparable) with playoff experience, will cost less, and isn't restricted. they're going to eff around wasting time chasing guys they can't have and miss the guy they could.
i hope they are just doing the kid a favor spreading rumors trying to force utah to go ahead and close up the deal and keep the kid out west. there's a lot of value for us in keeping hayward in utah for the next 5 years. last thing you want is boston or cleveland to land the kid and add competition in the east.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 4, 2014 2:15:47 PM
One of Parsons, Stephenson or Hayward please. In that order. Make it happen Cho. Backup PG with what $ is left. Hello 3 seed.
Posted by: John | Jul 4, 2014 2:17:44 PM
indiana has 12 guys under contract (when you count miles) that total 70.2 million. That leaves them with less than 7 million before going over the tax for stephenson.
that 5 year 44 million offer was before they signed miles as a backup plan. they have to now move scola or copeland to add to the ~6.8 million and the most they can add would be around 3.5 million in doing so because they still have to replace the roster spot.
9.8 million is the highest they can go, and even that is a reach for them.
stephenson might be able to be had for 8 a year at this point.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 4, 2014 2:27:14 PM
would rather have parsons, Stephenson, or Deng
but this wouldnt be a bad sign as long as we dont go over 10-11 million. would love to see mcbob and sessions back!
Posted by: Joshua | Jul 4, 2014 2:35:25 PM
^^^^ there's absolutely no way we sign hayward for that price.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 4, 2014 2:44:16 PM
What's the word on Ariza? He's a much better player in my opinion.
Posted by: Shane | Jul 4, 2014 3:12:10 PM
ariza is 29 and wouldn't really be a great fit to play alongside MKG. He's going to command a solid salary, so I would much rather pay that kind of money to a 24 year old 2 - alpha dog, than for a 29 year old 3 wing man. he shot the 3 ball well last year, but average prior to that. he just doesn't elevate us from where we already are.
washington has plenty of room under the tax to keep him and I believe he's going to get a really good offer from whoever misses out on melo and then misses out on deng. he'll be that third guy in line more than likely. and if melo stays put, that means chicago and phoenix and dallas and others competing with the wizards plus the teams that will offer MLE/s&t scenarios. and i don't see anybody taking note of an ariza signing and saying "hey I need to look at Charlotte now"
all that said....he IS a helluva player to have. Just don't see it being good for us. great fit for the wizards.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 4, 2014 3:37:58 PM
Give him the max and get it over with. It is the only chance to sign him. That deal will be a bargain in 2 years.
Posted by: Mike T. | Jul 4, 2014 3:42:41 PM
Stephenson is talented, but he is a loose cannon on and off the court. Let some other team over pay for nut job Stephenson. Hayward would be a great fit, but Cleveland and Utah will probably offer him a max contract and he isn't worth that much money. It is funny how teams still don't follow the Spurs model of building a championship team.
Posted by: Jon | Jul 4, 2014 3:43:35 PM
you offer him a max contract and your cap space is tied up for 3 days and then they match it. that's why cleveland didn't do it.
stephenson only has a 3rd degree assault charge on his off the court issues list. which was 4 years ago. if there were a better option available, I wouldn't be pushing him. There just isn't another guy out there we can have. he's crazy. but so are rodman, wallace, artest, odom, rondo to some extent, and all those guys have rings.
when chris paul or shane battier do what stephenson does, its gamesmanship. when he does it.....it's "antics". the guy is a winner who rebounds, scores, passes, and defends. and doesn't shy away from big moments.
following the spurs model isn't possible for most teams because they don't have the tim duncan to build around. then you can't "model" after hitting home runs over and over with late draft picks and minimum level signings. and you can't do it without an elite coach. I think the indiana/okc/memphis (pre hollinger)/clippers/blazers/bulls/ and now raptors/wizards model is far more proven to get teams to contention consistently. usually those teams fall short when they get impatient and give up on continuity too soon.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 4, 2014 3:58:55 PM
Stephenson 3rd degree assault charge was for pushing his girlfriend down a flight of stairs. He was charged with assault, menacing, weapons possession, and reckless endangerment, While [Williams] was laying at the bottom of said stairs, the defendant [Stephenson] picked up informant's head and slammed informant's head on the bottom step," the Brooklyn Criminal Court records stated, according to the New York Daily News.
He was also arrested when he was in high school for sexual abuse of a 17 year old.
Basketball is the only thing keeping Stephenson out of jail.
Posted by: Jon | Jul 4, 2014 4:15:26 PM
both charges were dropped, no? there are far worse guys with far worse resumes than stephenson. I would argue that hairston is one of them and i'm a big hairston supporter.
jason kidd has had worse offenses.
i don't want to say stephenson is an angel and not at all like stephen jackson, but stephen jackson has far worse charges and actual incidents. not even close. more in the spreewell lane IMO. he is absolutely crazy, but he is absolutely talented and if he weren't crazy would easily be a max player the same way harden was and hayward appears to possibly be. with all the good lockerroom guys we have.....i think we can afford to have 1 crazy guy.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 4, 2014 4:30:51 PM
We have been through the Thomas', Jackson's and Gordon's. Why do You think the offers are not flowing in for Stephenson? He is obviously talented. I will take the model citizen at 23 years old who played his best ball with Al. He is still going to get better. Max that deal out and find whatever you can to deter them from matching.
Posted by: Alan | Jul 4, 2014 5:32:47 PM
hayward is a fantasy. they're going to match every offer. we would have to give up picks and players to get him + the max deal and even then they might not accept aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand..... he's not worth all of that.
we're talking about stephenson being the better fit and costing around 5 million less per year and being unrestricted. not giving up anything to get him.
if we're just talking pick one, i'm picking hayward. we aren't. we're talking stephenson or nothing and you guys are hung up on hayward. kevin love is a more realistic possibility than gordon hayward.
and I wouldn't base anything we do on al jefferson at all. he's the bridge to something else and nothing more. we will never contend with him as the focal point of our team. and he's going to opt out next summer and ask for the moon also. and surely somebody dumb will give it to him (might be us).
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 4, 2014 6:01:01 PM
2015/2016 cap projected at 66 million. Will only go up from there. Plenty of money to re-sign Al next year and lock in Kemba if they want. Max out Hayward. Stephenson might still be there if Utah matches.if not, next year is shaping up like a better class.
Posted by: Mike T. | Jul 4, 2014 6:20:33 PM
yeah but why would you want to sign al for ages 31-35 at the number he's going to want? that defense isn't getting any better with age.
next year's class? danny green will stay with the spurs. wes matthews isn't really an upgrade over henderson and nowhere near stephenson/hayward level. thompson and jackson are restricted. if they're going somewhere it will be between now and the deadline and they won't be free.
who on earth are you talking about being better?
and you're assuming that we don't spend the cap space NOW on lessor players. which is what i'm most afraid of. we re-up kemba for too much, re-up mcroberts, sign a backup pg, you can kiss a good chunk of that.
there's no scenario better than stephenson + love that is a realistic possibility that could take place in the next week without giving up all of our young guys.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 4, 2014 7:20:26 PM
charlottean give it a rest dude
Posted by: Hot Sauce | Jul 4, 2014 8:16:13 PM
Good things have been happening lately, just try to be somewhat happy about it folks
Posted by: Hot Sauce | Jul 4, 2014 8:17:09 PM
clttn, if a deal with Hayward is a complete non-starter why is Cho wasting firm resources on the guy?
Are you really rationalizing rap sheets? Really? Stephenson throwing a girl down the stairs and then calmly strolling down there and slamming her head on the bottom step is ok because some other player has done worse? REALLY?!? You do realize if rhe victim refuses to cooperate lots of cases like that go away....and you think that makes it ok? REALLY?!?!?
I will give Minny, Yes Co & Cho credit for one thing....tthey have a roster full of guys who keep their noses clean and don't embarrass the franchise by showing up in a mug shot photo in this lousy newspaper...they have that going for them, which is nice.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 4, 2014 8:40:00 PM
^^Pass on Stephenson for sure; dude ain't worth the box score-
Posted by: the Dude | Jul 4, 2014 11:47:16 PM
Gordon is a talented player and would definitely improve this team.
Posted by: Berdj J. Rassam | Jul 5, 2014 1:01:52 AM
Gordon is a sf . He plays sf for Utah . If he stays there , Burke will start at pt gd , Exum at sg and Gordon at sf . Gordon can play both positions but cannot stay in front of shooting guards and doors not do the greatest job of staying in front of sfs . He's 6 ft 8 . He's coming here to replace Mkg at sf . Even if he were coming to play sg and Henderson were moved, Clifford would find a way to play Taylor and Neal at sg the most and Hayward at sf over Mkg . He's played Taylor , Cdr and Neal over Mkg to finish games . It won't stop till Clifford gets him shipped . He flat out hates Mkgs picking up of cheap fouls or fouls for that matter which goes against his defending wo fouling . Kemba and Jefferson defend wo fouling by not playing defense .
The knock on Hayward is that he's inconsistent . His shooting has declined w more USEAGE for the last 3 yrs . 2 yrs was playing w Jefferson the ball hog so he has an excuse . A real one . Last yr , he was the main focus of defenses and he's not an elite player . You guys are sold on he being offered the max by Utah or matching but they're not so sure bc of his inconsistency and they now have 2 guys they will build around for sure . Utah is going nowhere fast w The sorry ass front ct players of Williams , Kanter and Favors . Why throw the max at Hayward under these circumstances when you really have to replace those 3 bums first . Hayward is very good. He will fit here for sure but I'm not so sure at the money that is being discussed to land him .
And Mkg will know he's here . Nice kick in the teeth ESP when they design no plays for him , sit him to rot in the 4 th , have no real program to develop players and refuse to bring in a pt gd to get he and the wings easy buckets in transition and in half ct offense off cuts , back doors and lobs . Kemba is the worst starting pt gd in the nba in assists at the rim . He has been and will always be . The wings suffer the most bc of this . Mostly Mkg . And Clifford is a horrible offensive coach bc his offense is dump it into Jefferson who won't pass out of doubles to save his life to keep fresh ball movement . I don't need to tell Hayward . He knows it . And he knows he's using the Cavs and the Hirnets to create his worth . The last place he would come is here only to be reduced to the 3 rd or 4 th option , watching most plays going to Jefferson who wouldn't pass to save his life.
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 5, 2014 8:33:40 AM
Really? should have credited SNL or me. You really should have, I hope you really don't do that to people at home or at work. Not a good look. Really.
Did you really compliment the Hornets for having a high character roster? Really? That's one sports fans. That is one!
Posted by: Mike T. | Jul 5, 2014 8:41:36 AM
Stephenson is a combo guard so he fits next to a shoot first point gd and one who can't facilitate . But he's not an elite scorer . You would be silly paying him the max . He's valuable bc of his versatility . But the 2 things he does great won't translate here , namely rebounding and assists . He won't have the ball in his hands unless he dominates it w the second unit . Most sets , they dump straight into Jefferson . He whines if he doesn't get it. They spend way too much time force feeding him to the detriment of the wing players . Stephenson , Hayward and Deng know this . Once they look at Kembas horrific assists at the rim stats and his USEAGE , they will play like they want to come here but won't . No one is beating their way to the Hornets door . No free agents . Stephensons stock is dropping as it should . No one is going to pay him 12 m m a yr unless he can put up numbers like 18 a game and he has never done that . It's impossible to think he won't be a distraction or worse in 4 yrs . Then you can't trade him . He gets you fired. Mj wants to play golf and not have a guy show up in his office the first time he drops 25 asking for a raise . I doubt the rumors that he was doing a face to face were true . Stephesons cousin who's his agent and out of his league would have posted something to get leverage w other teams . Who's offered him anything since the Pacers ? Did Cho abandon his high character bs ? Would he be passive when they dump it into Jefferson 3 times in a row , be open and not get a pass like the soft ass wings do here ? Would he watch Kemba walk the ball up ct on a wide open break and say nothing ? Would he watch Kemba sit out front overdribbling the shot clock down only to have to take a shot after Lance has worked to get past his man ? Would he even settle to be the 3 rd option or even some nights , the 4 th option ? Would he ignore Jefferson as he did Hibbert and go one on one and piss Jefferson off ? How long would it go before one of these issues arise ? How about off ct issues ? If Jefferson doesn't eat first on the plane ? Or he doesn't get to pad his stats w the second unit bc Neal or Cdr starts jacking ? What if he punches a player out like he did to Evans ? What if he punches Kemba out for not passing ? Kemba can take care of himself unlike soft ass Evan Turner . There's too much here . This guys a live grenade . His mid range game is zero . His finish at the rim in traffic is average. He cannot play off the ball which players must if you're to be teamed w Jefferson and it takes yrs to adjust . His rebounding and assists will not be sustainable here . And he averaged 10 points in the finals absent the one 25 point game they lost . Leave him out there .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 5, 2014 9:37:36 AM
Ecf .. Bledsoe / kemba ... ..Henderson / Neal / Hairston .. Parsons / Mkg / Taylor . . Vonleh / Zeller ..Jefferson / Hawes / biz . .. Jefferson must change his evil ways but he can do it .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 5, 2014 9:42:41 AM
I'd rather observe MKG/Taylor at the 3 for a little bit and redirect those resources to a higher caliber SG or PG
Posted by: the Dude | Jul 5, 2014 10:54:34 AM
Umm Hayward can play SG while MKG defends to better wing player. We need somebody that can play different positions.
Posted by: DS | Jul 5, 2014 12:31:52 PM
I complimented the Boobs for having a high character roster, Hornets left town a long long time ago. If the Redskins change their name, no matter what they change it to they will always be the Redskins....we are the Boobs.
Love Big Al, but he's long in the tooth.
Love Clifford, but not convinced Air Minny will PAY UP to keep him.
McBob a BIG upside surprise but Air Minny will prob let him get away.
Don't fall down.... ;)
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 5, 2014 3:20:27 PM
Do not spend more than $10-$12M on this guy. And for that they may need a sign and trade with Utah. Hayward is not worth $15M per year. At best he will be a "White Joe Johnson".
Posted by: RobC | Jul 5, 2014 4:13:02 PM
why are you guys STILL talking about hayward. he is NOT an option. as to why cho is spending resources, i'm not sure he is.....i think its jefferson doing his buddy a favor, or cho is trying to buddy up to bartlestein.
or.....cho isn't looking at stephenson at all and is spinning the wheels just in case something unlikely happens.
nobody is justifying a rap sheet, it's called stating facts. charges and convictions are not the same thing. and third degree is a far cry from 1st degree. and we're talking about ish a guy did prior to drinking age. larry bird, after everything they went through with the artest/jackson years, would not be offering 44 over 5 if the guy had serious character issues. I bet most of what is being reported as character issues is actually coming from their camp to try and lower the guy's value intentionally.
hayward is unattainable. stephenson is attainable and arguably more talented and definitely less expensive.
there's no debate here.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 5, 2014 4:38:17 PM
Charlotean .. You're missing the point . Stephenson was in a contract yr . He did all this crazy stuff this yr knowing it would impact his money but he's so impulsive , he can't control himself . It's impossible to think when things go bad , he won't explode . Things will go bad bc they're bad now and will only get worse . He will in fact be the scapegoat rather than Kemba ( can't facilitate or play defense ) or Jefferson ( total ball hog who plays zero defense ) the wings take turns being the scapegoats here . I think Chos character stuff goes to far . It snares players that will not be a problem if you have vets , good support staff and management . They had all that in Indy . He ain't the one to play w . It's not even a risk . It's for certain he will explode . But this time , he will be untradeable. He will be told to stay away from the arena . Stephenson will not accept being the third option w the size of his contract and expectations .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 5, 2014 8:00:22 PM
Charlotte Hornets Baby. History and all. Better get used to it.
Posted by: Hugo | Jul 5, 2014 9:10:57 PM
I don't think i'm missing the point at all. I think it was the ultimate team sacrifice that he made. I think he knew EXACTLY what he was doing and did so with incredible amounts of control. he didn't throw punches, he didn't even have a technical foul in the series. He had 1 flagrant (questionable). He knew he'd lose money by playing the bad guy a bit and did it anyways....trying to win a ring. Had they pulled it off, he'd be getting a max deal right now. and it was far from his fault that they didn't pull it off. 6 wins from a championship is very close.
what did he do that was soooooooo bad? talk about buying into media hype. the guy was intentionally trying to be an agitator in a playoff series knowing that if he and lebron both got thrown out of a game, his team wins.
i've repeated it again and again and again......guys like battier and chris paul do it and it gets called gamesmanship.
there's no better alternative that moves us up the ladder this offseason. if you want to lower the risk, you up the money and lower the years (like 3 years 36 million). i trust larry bird's judgement that he wouldn't be offering 44 million to the guy if he thought he could have an artest/jackson situation on his hands.
we aren't debating stephenson vs. somebody better, we're debating stephenson vs. nothing or someone older/lesser/worse fitting/less valuable.
and he wouldn't necessarily be the 3rd option......kemba would be deferring to him. kemba does it every summer they play together in pro-AM and rucker ball. the entire video footage is kemba giving the ball to lance. over and over and over.
label the guy a risk all you want. he's the best option available and best fit. he's a 2 way player who passes the ball and scores when needed. someone who is playoff tested at 24 years old and does the exact opposite of shy away from the moment.
it's absolutely an opportunity lost if we don't land stephenson and love this summer. we'll still be okay, but that's not difficult to do. if the object is to contend, that does it and what we're looking at otherwise....doesn't. and it would be a move that simultaneously makes us stronger and another eastern conference power weaker.
we aren't talking about andray blatche.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 5, 2014 9:28:24 PM
Lance Stephenson was trouble only for the Pacers when it mattered most - late last season and in the playoffs. So what's the point of splitting hairs, as to whether he's a better or worse person than several other guys, or how many years ago he pushed his GF down the stairs (as if he got any better since), or about charges being dropped, etc.?
He's a known head case and this already proved to be detrimental to his team at a critical time. That's enough. Closed issue.
Also, he's a SG, and we need to look for a SF right now.
PJ Hairston is NOT a nut. He made mistakes as a young college kid, and that's a different type of issue. I trust him when he says he understands where he went wrong, and he's outgrown that unfortunate stage in his life.
It matters a lot less what fans trust him, and what fans don't, than it matters that our FO people met him directly, and based on face to face talks with him decided he deserves to be trusted and to be drafted.
Opinions based on media reports don't equal a determination based on DIRECT meetings.
So yeah, there's every chance we'll get a lot from PJ, and there's no chance that the nut job from Indiana will suddenly stop being a ticking time-bomb.
We know PJ has great upside offensively, but he wasn't much of a defender so far.
So far. His untapped yet potential for defense is pretty good too (not to be a great defender, but, to do decent job at that end of the floor too).
PJ, Hendo and Gary Neal - that looks really good for the SG position. Or, PJ and Neal, with Jeffery Taylor also able to play the 2 (assuming Hendo will be traded) - that looks good too.
At SF, I alre4ady mentioned that expecting Chandler Parsons, Gordon Hayward or Trevor Ariza to land here has no realistic chances. If it happened, with any of them, I'd be glad. But...
We'll need to focus on Luol Deng, and stop talking about him as if he were some 35 years old, mediocre rotation player. Far from that.
Getting him for a 3 y. x 10 m. contract will be a very good step ahead for this team.
And even his chances of actually signing here are nothing to take for granted.
Posted by: Sandy | Jul 6, 2014 1:00:31 AM
Stephenson is a showman . He thinks he can take over Rodmans bad boy antics . First , he does nothing to an elite level and second , his antics are old and third they're distractful . You say he knows what he's doing and is doing it for the team . This is a fallacy . The team doesn't want him to do it , no one supports it , it's distractful to them and equally , Bird has told him to stop . If Bird the Gm tells you to stop , the staff is definitely not on board and he's not doing it for the team . He's unable to control himself in a contract yr . Bird has to have him bc the Pacers are knocking at the door of a championship and it would be a disaster to go backwards right now . He's inextricably tied in to their success . But outside of the Pacers , who's rushing out to offer him a dime ? He averaged 10 points when the smoke cleared in the Ecf mnus the 25 point game they lost . Neal and Henderson averaged 25 in a net positive at sg . Now they have a long range shooter to add the sg rotation . As Sandy said , they need a sf .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 6, 2014 6:37:25 AM
They have worked so hard to clean this team up. Don't turn back now for a guy like Stephenson. Anyone mention the locker room issues that Stephenson was a part last year? The guy has problems or he would have already been signed. He and his rap sheet can go somewhere else. Multiple teams have discussed the max for Hayward including his own. Hmmm.
Stephenson sounds like a Higgins move. I was hoping with him gone we would be past those kind of acquisitions.
Posted by: Mike T. | Jul 6, 2014 6:46:46 AM
Get Parsons at all costs . Houston privately doesn't think he can check the two guys they must get around to win a championship , namely James and Durant . They want a hard guy defender at sf who can score too . It will be a matter of time his time will be reduced or they work some sign and trade for him for a guy like Green . That's the rumor , I don't agree w it but it makes some sense . Here , if Mkg stays , that won't be such a big problem .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 6, 2014 6:50:30 AM
Let's be real . Deng is being courted by a number of teams . One is the Heat . He will replace Battier who was sorely missed last yr w the Heat , in all respects but the arc shot . He will provide other things Battier didnt that was lost by Wades decline . One . Why would he split time w Mkg ? Two . Why would he go to a place where a sg who can't facilitate runs the point who also forces a ton of shots at the rim ? Three . Why would he ever play w Jefferson who refuses to pass not only when he's doubled but tripled when he can play w Janes who passes ? James and Riley will find the dough . Riley will call James , Wade and Bosh and say I need alittle more from you to land him . They will oblige . Arrison either stretches out the agreed amount money over time payroll wise or pays them in a personal services contract under the table like he must be doing for Haslem . Haslem turned down a 10 m dollar guaranteed offer from the Mavs to play for 4 m w the Heat . .. Yeah right . Lol. Deng is not coming here .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 6, 2014 8:49:20 AM
There's no room at the inn for Lance Stephenson, complete non-starter from a fit perspective with this franchise and town.
Has anyone figured out who is the "superstar" Air Minny was referencing? Surely he had someone in mind? He wouldn't go off half cocked and make a comment like that without a clear target in mind, would he?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 6, 2014 11:26:38 AM
Anyone figure out why NASTAR is a complete douche yet?
Posted by: Richard | Jul 6, 2014 11:35:23 AM
You are really trying to make something out of that quote? Really? Compliments Charlotte and says hopefully they can attract some other superstars. BTW if he thinks they already have a superstar then Hayward would certainly apply.
"I always thought Charlotte was a great destination," Jordan told the Associated Press (via ESPN.com) Monday afternoon following an education fundraiser. "Big Al has proven that you can come here and make a big difference. Hopefully we can look at that and attract some other superstars."
Posted by: Mike T. | Jul 6, 2014 11:46:49 AM
Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks it is notable...Sorensen said: **Michael Jordan, who owns the Hornets, put pressure on general manager Rich Cho when he talked last month about adding “some other superstar” to the roster.**
Interesting point you raise....so you're saying Air Minny's definition of a "superstar" is lacking?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 6, 2014 12:45:43 PM
"lance stephenson was trouble for the pacers when it mattered most"
I keep hearing this. and it keeps not being true. stephenson played his balls off in the playoffs. hibbert and hill came up missing. not stephenson. he didn't have any technical fouls or ejections in the miami series. he was intentionally trying to agitate lebron into doing something stupid. it didn't work. neither does anything else against lebron. none of that negatively affected his team. factually, it took pressure and attention away from hibbert and hill. hill makes 8 million a year, stephenson made 1. hibbert? 14 and change. lance did faaaaaaaaaar from "let his team down" dude outplayed his salary by about 9 million and then some.
he wasn't at all the one that cost his team that chance at a championship. he was one of the only reasons (along with west, george and scola) they even had a chance.
as much as I agree that hairston isn't at all as crazy as lance.......i think they have an equal chance of getting pulled over for DUI with weed in the car or making any kind of headline like that. you said he was a young kid, what the eff was stephenson? I do think there's at least a decent chance that hairston is a solid caliber starting 2 guard (but so is henderson) and a small chance he's a stud. but stephenson already is a stud. only 2 year age difference.
I don't think many of you actually watched the playoffs, but rather just read the headlines and saw the vine videos and bs like that. it was absolutely newsworthy the crazy ish he was doing, but the perception created was that what he was doing was so bizarre. chris paul does that ish EVERY GAME. stephenson doesn't.
and no stephenson isn't a higgins type move, not once did he ever sign a free agent of that caliber. larry brown might have made that move as he did with thomas....but as stated previously.......thomas didn't work out mostly because brown didn't work out. had brown been the coach, thomas would have been more of a fit.
yall are ignoring the fact that almost every single championship team and contender has had a guy like this in the rotation. rodman, artest, jackson, odom, jason williams, deshawn stevenson, rasheed, big baby, rondo, all have rings and came close a number of times. then there are the charles oakleys, the josh smiths, the tony allens, etc who have been very close. he's among them.
explain to me the difference between what stephenson did (because it really was only in that series) and what blake griffin does, what joakim noah does, what nene did, etc.
blake griffin is exactly the same you just ignore it because of the talent.
as long as stephenson is the ONLY guy in the lockerroom, he's more likely to conform rather than go against the grain. but you can't ignore talent because he's a little crazy. all great competitors are a little bit crazy. shaq was crazy as hell.
it's mind blowing the amount of judgement being thrown around for a guy trying to get under lebron's skin. henderson did some of the same kind of stuff and it just didn't get noticed. you know why? because we didn't beat them. and duke guys somehow get a pass on all the dirty stuff they do.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 6, 2014 1:02:25 PM
clttn....it ain't gonna happen, move on.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 6, 2014 1:08:10 PM
Name one superstar that's ever come to team up w Jefferson ? Deron Williams fled from him as soon as he could . Jerry Sloan resigned bc he couldn't get him to pass or defend , two mainstays in his edicts about the bb philosophies he preached and demanded of his players . Then when you see that a sg is running point who passes up open players inside to force shots at the rim , who's the worst assists at the rim starting point gd in the league , tell me who's coming that has options . It will be a sign and trade . It will be for Zeller or Henderson . You can't get anything of value for Mkg w a broken shot . This is a real mess . Guys aren't stupid . They have agents that evaluate this stuff . This is not a stop . Don't forget , these agents and players call former players too . Tell me what Jax , DIAW , Dj , Kwame , Wallace and Felton will say that's positive ? They hate Mj w a passion . This is the unmitigated truth and all measurable material factors that come in the mix . Sign n trade . Melo ? Lol. Deng ? No . James ? Lmfao . Bosh ? Lol. Parsons or Stepheson ? Sign n trade .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 6, 2014 1:14:02 PM
The guy says he can "hopefully" add a superstar. That is pretty opened ended. What I am saying is you have to really reach to criticize a statement like that.
As far as my definition of a superstar there would only one that is currently a free agent. Maybe he wasn't talking about this year only.
Nice list there Iron Man. Only one of those players left and went on to any success at all. There opinion carries about as much weight as yours. Nice to see Hayward coming in. I guess the thinks Al is good for his game. The numbers sure would bear that out.
Jerry Sloan resigned because of Al? Your revisionist history is as bad as Kobe's. It is funny when player hate gets in the way of actual facts. But at least it illustrates your true colors.
Posted by: Mike T. | Jul 6, 2014 1:35:13 PM
You don't know what you're talking about . Sloan resigned not only bc of Williams but bc of Jeffersons play . Williams would never ever play w Jefferson again . Agents must know or have reason to know about the culture he's bringing his player to . If a player got here and found out what Jefferson and Kemba did in fact and the agent didnt warn him in advance , he's fired . These guys change agents all the time and have other agents trying to steal them thru out the their life in the nba . An agent will know the culture before his guy gets here . He will talk to players , other agents , staff here , bird dogs and former staff from here . And go online . You can bury your head in the sand if you want dreaming that this is a great or even good stop . And what the ex players did after they left here has zero to do w their opinions on Mj , the culture and staff . Zero . Wallace has sounded so bad on this stop , it will take big money thrown at a player to get him here like was done w Jefferson . Let's bet . A knuckle sandwich to the loser . Not one of those listed free agents will be signed unless stupid money is paid out .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 6, 2014 1:54:46 PM
"What I am saying is you have to really reach to criticize a statement like that." Not at all....in fact, defending it is what's a reach.
"As far as my definition of a superstar..." What do you think Minny's definition is?
"Maybe he wasn't talking about this year only." If you read the entire quote it's perfectly clear he's talking about this summer.
WHO IS THIS MYSTERIOUS SUPERSTAR AIR MINIMUM IS REFERENCING?!?!?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 6, 2014 2:28:27 PM
"not gonna happen" does not equal "shouldn't happen" - as a bobcats fan, i've grown accustomed to watching obvious deals go past like they didn't exist while we're busy doing dampier deals and building around guys that aren't worthy of it and ruining development of high draft picks.
there is no better scenario than stephenson + love and its absolutely plausible to make that happen. it's sitting there on the table.
and what definitely is "not gonna happen" is hayward.
i fully expect to overpay a bunch of BS like mcroberts, kemba extension, some random eff like xavier henry or an anthony tolliver clone and give ramon sessions like 4 a year when nobody would give him more than 2, and i fully expect to be stuck in mediocrity further.
but it's not what SHOULD be done.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 6, 2014 2:35:17 PM
"there is no better scenario than stephenson + love"
That would be pretty unreal. AM,YC&C don't have the ability to even envision it, much less pull it off.
Will be a sad day, but probably gonna happen. Will seal the Boobs fate.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 6, 2014 2:49:09 PM
Same guys that criticiszed them for not extending Felton and Augustine. The Kemba extension is sounding better and better. Make it happen Cho. It has to be the right move now. No doubt.
Posted by: Real | Jul 6, 2014 3:11:59 PM
"WHO IS THIS MYSTERIOUS SUPERSTAR AIR MINIMUM IS REFERENCING?!?!?"
-Put the pacifier in it, NASTAR, and relax.
I would be very happy with management if they stood pat and wait for the wise move.
-would only be cool if it's a 6th-man tier salary, please not overpay on this guy--
Posted by: the Dude | Jul 6, 2014 4:26:48 PM
"I would be very happy with management if they stood pat and wait for the wise move."
...and what would that be, the "wise move" that is? How long will we be waiting?
The other day you wrote this (I assume you were drunk) -->
"-Yes, man; because we went through the whole Bob Johnson/Larry Brown/Rod Higgins/Paul Silas/Mike Dunlap freaking disaster while the Nets did an absolutely brilliant job of hanging in sub-mediocrity!"
What the heck were you trying to say?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 6, 2014 4:35:48 PM
Agreed on Shorty, at least were on the same page there ;). Seems like more and more folks are coming around on The Short One, fewer and fewer defending him....aaah, the little things in life (no pun intended)...
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 6, 2014 4:38:13 PM
i'm not against extending kemba, i'm against overpaying him. augustin was/is better. I stand by that. he proved me right last season. you can make an argument that they are equal, but i don't believe there's an argument for kemba being definitively better. and even dj is only a mid-level player. which is all that kemba is.
I'm completely for a 5-6 million a year deal like what henderson got. not at all for the 8-9 million deal they're surely going to give him.
and yeah i agree that cho doesn't have the vision for the outside of the box, danny ainge, daryl morey type deals. he's very smart, very pragmatic in his approach, but caution only gets you to the middle in this league. he has successfully built a low playoff seed and the window is closing on the chances to make serious moves to get beyond that. as guys get extensions, that cap room disappears and we're stuck with mid level deals, bad trades or blowing it up again.
nobody wants to hear it, but now is the perfect time to sell high on jefferson.
they have to start taking chances, the base is there. they can't do too much damage by reaching for something as long as they don't give up MKG, zeller, or too much value elsewhere. playing it safe will get us passed.
we aren't competing with what indiana, chicago, washington, toronto, and probably miami are bringing. we aren't better positioned than cleveland or philly or boston or atlanta or even detroit or milwaukee.
we have a coach that has a good philosophy on strategy, but a horrible outlook on personnel. he also clearly doesn't understand how statistics work. nastar you're worried about not paying to keep him? he's not worth the kind of money you think he is. there are a ton of guys on par with him as a coach. dunlap included. any one of lawrence frank, byron scott, alvin gentry, larry drew, kurt rambis, vinny del negro, kevin mchale (probably available by next summer), etc etc would do just fine. you can't have a mike brown sam vincent level idiot of a coach, but there are a million guys that work just fine. the talent wins out in the nba. the top level talent. our mid level talent is superb. we lack top end talent. MKG will get there in 5 years and zeller might too, but past them? and currently? we have bad top end talent. jefferson and kemba are probably somewhere around 15th best 1-2 punch in the league, if that. probably not even.
stephenson and love would at least move that up around 9-10 and still have room to make moves or at the very least have kemba as the 3rd option.
i love how the campaign effort for changing the name and mascot so far exceeds any amount of campaign for actual talent. you would never see this city campaign for kevin love the same way they did for the name to be changed. same crowd talks about delhomme like he wasn't the man.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 6, 2014 4:51:20 PM
Asstar has to be in pain. Playoff team, Hornets name comes back, great coach, MJ's net worth increasing, FA's coming to town, all NBA player, highly rated draft, cutting loose Higgins, adding more talent to the front office. Has to be killing him a little every day. The past is all Asstar has to draw on. Hey...did you know the Clippers used to be bad? Lmao.
Posted by: Hornet Matt | Jul 6, 2014 5:02:43 PM
This again is a brilliant post . What I don't understand is how you get lost in seeing Biz as a guy who will become a league average player . It's interesting that you do make a good case that Biz at center instead of Jefferson is not much different in wins or impact bc of what Jefferson brings negatively and how others are stymied by his offensive dominance .
Extending any point gd that can't facilitate , know where his teamnates are , not making them better , not looking to get them involved much in the offense and being a liability on the defensive end and the worst in the league at assists at the rim would set this franchise back 6 yrs .
Selling high on Jefferson to get an average two way scoring center and maybe a pick or another two way mid level player is way beyond Chos ability . Like Isiah said . In today's game , they value atlhleticism too much and intelligence not enough . Jefferson and Kemba are not intelligent guys . They don't understand the game outside of taking shots . Period . Despite there being so much more to the game . And we suffer . It's sad .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 6, 2014 5:28:11 PM
Dunlaps offense would most certainly be better than Clifford's . I get that neither Kemba nor Jefferson , for different reasons can't run the pick n roll . But a good coach would find two other partners . How many screens does Jefferson set for teamnates ? How many times does he do hand offs ? Back screens to create a back door ? Why isn't Zeller used in the mid block to pass to cutters ? I could go on and on . Clifford will ultimately be fired bc he can't incorporate wing play . No big to big passing . Zero interior passing and man movement for easy buckets . It's lost on him .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 6, 2014 5:39:01 PM
i actually think jefferson IS very intelligent as a basketball player. i'm not sure what you meant by "get lost in seeing biz becoming a league average player". no idea what that was meant to say.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 6, 2014 5:39:40 PM
Let me amend my assertion . It's amazing to me what people here accept as signs of progress when it comes to Biz here . He's finished here . Clifford uses him not a second after Jefferson has become rested and able to resume his one trick pony side show . Jefferson is brilliant in his offensive moves . But he's no different than a person suffering from savant syndrome in his ignorance of the balance of the game . The same can be said of Kemba to a far lesser extent . You simply cannot understand the game to any level to fail to produce outside of scoring to the level Jefferson does . At first I thought it was selfishness . Now I know it's sheer stupidity .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 6, 2014 6:31:13 PM
What do Irving, Conley, Dragic, Parker and Lilliard all have in common? Averaged less assists than Walker. Did you guys follow the NBA post all-star? You know, when the then Bobcats had the best record in the Eastern Conference. Kemba got better and better as a distributor. And that was with one of the worst offensive teams in the NBA. Any chance he continues that growth next year? Of course. But the haters can't stop hating for a minute to admit it. God for bid one of those players you love so up much learn to shoot. Wow. He could easily be top five in the NBA.
Posted by: Actual Player | Jul 6, 2014 6:52:31 PM
top 5? kemba? are you out of your effing mind?
i'm not the one talking about assists. he got better as the year went on, but he still wasn't great. 6.1 assists on the season was good for................14th/15th on quantity. 20th on %. I don't care about this. this doesn't bother me. mcroberts was an active playmaker in the offense the same way ginobli/diaw and others were for san antonio.
i have a problem with the guy shooting under 40% and continuously taking bad shots. his PPP was below .9, around .88. almost everybody on the roster was better than that. including henderson, including MKG, including biz, etc. he is a high usage, low efficiency scorer. and those guys almost never win. the few that did.....like iverson.....was a high assist guy and high steals guy. and he was still in the low/mid .90s PPP.
he made great strides from year 1 to year 2 under dunlap. then he regressed big time last year. you can't say "our offense was terrible" (which it was) and think al and kemba are both great. al flat out delivered on offense and the offense was still bad. wasn't mkg, he wasn't getting the effing ball and when he did, he was efficient. henderson was solid as much as everyone hates him. mcroberts made plays and made buckets. kemba is the guy that was the least efficient on our offense and it was drastic.
we should absolutely keep the guy as opposed to letting him walk. we should absolutely try to fix the problems he had last year. adding somebody above him (like a stephenson) to take over that #2 scorer role would help in a major way.
but giving him a big extension and continuing to ride him like he's an elite player is going to keep us in contention for 8 seeds every year.
he is in no way shape or form better than paul, rondo, wall, healthy rose, lawson, curry, lillard, westbrook, parker, bledsoe, teague, healthy holiday, irving, lowry, and i would take marcus smart right now also. he's comparable to the george hill, mike conley, brandon knight, jeremy lin, jose calderon, etc. etc. etc. crowd. most of those guys are overpaid. thus the point of "don't pay him that much".
lillard was more efficient on offense than al was. think about that for a moment.
kemba had a dangerously comparable year to brandon jennings last year. isaiah thomas had a better year individually (i do not think it translates directly to a winning team).
he is a mid level talent and deserves mid level money. simple as that. he is best suited as the 4th option on a really good team or even as the 6th man. not as the #2 option. we will never win with him as the #2 option.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 6, 2014 7:52:07 PM
Shorty will be lucky to remain a bottom tercile PG over the next 4 years...
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 6, 2014 8:09:16 PM
Ironman, not only you're blind to everything Al Jefferson does, you also have to call him names.
You claim he "fails to produce outside of scoring", you call him now "stupid" and not understanding the game, after we got used to your calling him "black hole" and "ball hog".
Besides being one of the two best offensive centers in the league (the other being DeMarcus Cousins), Al Jefferson also averaged last season 10.8 Rpg, 2.1 Apg (7th among centers; that's a real "ball hog", isn't he ...), also 1.1 bpg and .9 St/g (10th among all centers in this defensive category).
Out of those rebounds, 8.7 per game are defensive rebounds; I said it so many times, defensive rebounds are an important part of defense.
I know you're happily ignoring stats, and think your personal opinions weigh more than stats. They don't.
Besides, I'm fully aware of all those weak defensive plays, when Big Al doesn't appear to give much effort in one on one defense.
No, it's not "laziness", and it's the contrary of "stupidity".
It's the high basketball IQ of a player who knows his limitations, and tries hard to give his best to his team, according to his strengths.
He doesn't have the quick feet to play better on ball defense. What follows from this is that, if he started fighting hard in every defensive possession, the opponents would easily exploit this, would get him in quick foul trouble - and then we won't be here talking about everything he does, starting with his offense (and not only that).
You knew that foul trouble means benching and limited minutes, you just preferred to ignore this issue, right?
It's an issue I explained once before, but it flew over your head.
Briefly, Al Jefferson knows how to stay out of foul trouble, and that's how he maximizes his overall contribution to the team.
It's the most intelligent way for him to play, considering both his strengths and his weakness (kind of heavy and clumsy when trying one on one defense - just the contrary of his amazing offensive moves).
And I'm not fussing much about it, because of 1. his overall production (a very high 22.75 PER), and 2. because those stats that you don't read show he's about equal to (or even better than, in some cases), a lot of centers in this in the category that shows his main weakness: opponents' FG percentage he allows. (I posted once some of those centers' names, and there are many more).
It's a weakness in his game, nobody's perfect, but his PER reflects his overall production. That's why he was selected 3rd team NBA by the combined vote of 125 sports journalists (certainly not because some suckers see his great offense "only"; far from that).
Posted by: Sandy | Jul 6, 2014 8:31:55 PM
"nobody wants to hear it, but now is the perfect time to sell high on jefferson.
i love how the campaign effort for changing the name and mascot so far exceeds any amount of campaign for actual talent."
slurpers, take note, those are two excellent points.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 6, 2014 8:44:34 PM
20 - 9 post all star. 20 -9. You clueless buffoons should be thrilled to see what this team can do next season. If they don't draw the Heat, they would have won a series THIS year. You put a couple of decent offensive options with Kemba and he IS top 5 in assists. MKG can't shoot at all. Henderson has zero range. McRoberts is not exactly Lamarcus Aldridge. Kemba had the shot clock on his back all year because of their poor offense. Think his shooting % might go up if he didn't have to carry this team at the end of possessions or if they played more up tempo? Jesus. Its like you people have never played the game.
Posted by: Actual Player | Jul 6, 2014 9:37:41 PM
charlottean, I don't ignore all you say in Stephenson's defense, but I disagree.
From all I read about the guy, plus seeing his demeanor in Pacers' games (regular season and playoffs), I can't trust him to become a part of that good chemistry this team managed to develop last season. I wouldn't expect him to become a good teammate, one among those mutually supportive players this team was reported to have. You remember his incident with George Hill - on top of everything else that completes his profile.
And then again, he's not what we need. We're doing pretty well at SG without him, and on the other hand, he's not a "can't miss" 20+ ppg player. No denying his talent, but a "can't miss" one he isn't.
But of course, you ask for a veteran upgrade at SG only in order to prevent asking for one at SF. You want MKG to continue developing as starter. Your agenda...
I think you totally overestimate his upside for offense. I commented in detail on this in the past, so I'm not gonna load this post with repeating my previous comments on this.
My point here was only to say that you have your own well known agenda, but that can't justify a move for Stephenson.
I'll be grateful to Rich Cho when this will be final: L.S. won't be a Hornet!
I think you keep underestimating Kemba. He improved a lot last season.
Why are you picking just the one category where he declined (FG%, by 3% lower than the previous season)? How can you “not care” about his assists? He’s the starting PG…
Kemba’s 3 point shooting improved by 1%, his FT shooting improved by 4%. His scoring stayed the same: 17.7 ppg, while his rebounding went up, from 3.5 to 4.2 rpg. Very nice, for a small player.
But most important is the increase of his assists.
Saying his assists went from 5.7 to 6.1 per game doesn’t really show how much he actually improved as a playmaker.
He kept improving throughout the season: from 4.4 apg in the first 28 games, to 7.2 apg in the following 45 games.
After the All-Star break, the improvement is even more obvious: 7.7 apg.
This is nothing less than a spectacular growth in his role as a playmaker, while he still was the team’s second best scorer.
I have, though, a point of partial (but important) agreement with you. Kemba should not be one of the Hornets’ top two scoring options, because of his rather low efficiency scoring.
What I kept saying was that he had to do it, because of the lack of other high scoring options in the team. The wing starters don't have the scoring instinct - Kemba has it! This is a mindset issue, and it's very important.
This type of situation will change. P.J.Hairston has the scoring instinct and shooting talent that Hendo doesn’t have (not at the same level with P.J.), and an offensive upgrade at SF will still come – whether it’s through free agency or trade, whether it’s in this off-season, or the next one.
Then, I would like too to see Kemba becoming third, maybe even fourth, scoring option, in an overall higher scoring team.
Kemba at 15-16 ppg, plus 8–8.5 apg?
It would be great, and it’s perfectly possible (see assists stats above), when the scoring punch on the wings will be upgraded.
Posted by: Sandy | Jul 6, 2014 11:38:14 PM
Assists generally tell not even half the story . The ones that really , really , really , really count are assists at the rim . Why ? Bc they generate easy buckets for teammates . These come in transition or on the half ct sets in the paint . To pull these off , you must be able to facilitate . Anyone can pass the ball around the perimeter and pick up an assist . Some pundits believe such assists shouldn't even be counted . These are how Kemba picks up his assists . He does not get assists at the rim bc he can't throw nor does he ever throw the passes that generate them , namely lobs , back doors , alley oops or dimes on the break . Never . He's too small , has poor ct vision , poor pt gd split second decision making and can't for the life of him run the pick and roll . Stop showing ignorance by even talking about his assists totals when I'm very specific in attacking his being IN THE BASEMENT For STARTING POINT GDS IN ASSISSTS AT THE RIM . How many lobs has he ever thrown in a game ? BACK DOORS ? Drawn two defenders and given a teammate a layup in the paint ? He may do one of these once every three games !!!!!! That's why Inserting Mcroberts in the lineup was huge but it should not have been and can't continue to be if you want to improve . You're wasting precious time w this guy . You can't teach facilitating in the lane . It's innate . He has blinders on as a great sg should have . He's a great sg . Nothing else . Then let's get to his defense that allowed every damn pt gd come in here and abuse him by getting inside to score at will on Jefferson who merely looked at players getting by him , never even putting his hands up . Lmfao .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 7, 2014 2:25:12 AM
As usual the only thing that is used to justify Jefferson is his points and rebounds . But what's totally ignored and indefensible is his lack of regard respecting the other components of the game . It would be ok if he were close to league average in the other components . He's not . In not a one . Zero help defense . No shot blocking . Zero rim protection . Zero paint protection . Zero defense of the pick n roll or pop . Zero hand offs . Zero screens for teammates . And the worst stat of all , refusal to pass out of double teams which strangles the offense . These are way too many stats or components of the game he is non existent in . It kills the team . It's a reason no one will come and play w him if they're looking to win . It's the sole reason he has played for 10 seasons w all star stats but never got out the first round . It's a reason why he's never voted on by coaches to the Allstar team . Face it . The franchise is doomed to being an 8 th seed . If that's what you want fine . Jefferson will keep you there . But zero else . Give me a two way center that does most stuff league average level . You will go much farther .
Posted by: Iron man | Jul 7, 2014 2:40:05 AM
Charlottean and Iron Man are broken records. Kemba and Big Al aren't going anywhere. Get over it already. MKG is an above average defender but having a sf who can't shoot is a real liability. Combined with Henderson's lack of consistency it's not hard to see where the offense lacks on this team. That's why management is looking to upgrade our wing scoring.
Posted by: apauldds | Jul 7, 2014 9:16:09 AM
Shawty will be lucky to be a bottom tercile PG two years from now.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 7, 2014 10:17:29 AM
NASTAR...two years ago you said he would be playing in the Italian League by now. He then became the Team 2nd best player, few times player of the week and an above average PG.
I like your new comments "Shawty will be lucky to be a bottom tercile PG two years from now." That means Kemba will be an All-Star two years from now. After all, he just needs to improve his efficiency and continue to develop his passing skills (which he did pretty well the 2nd half of last season, averaging 7+ APG).
Posted by: RobC | Jul 7, 2014 11:26:43 AM
so for all the character issues that lance apparently presents.........mr. hairston is further proving my point over the weekend.
sandy - my agenda? again with the delusion. the team invested a #2 pick in the guy and you want to give up on the guy before he turns 21 after what we just saw against lebron? are you effing kidding. you of all people KNOW i'm pro-henderson. and i'm also pro-taylor. it's an upgrade over gary neal more than anything, but it's also giving us a guy that can play 10 mpg at the 1 also. it's a guy that can play 1-3 and while i don't think he's a guaranteed 20 ppg guy either, he IS a guaranteed defensive ace who scores efficiently in double figures and gives you 5+ rebounds and 5 assists also. and playoff tested and proven. it's about best available, there isn't an upgrade available at the 3 except for MAYBE parsons.
and if we want to start talking about parsons i'm all for it. i was the guy talking about how we should have drafted him.........BEFORE THE DRAFT (take a while and look it up). we'll have to pay A LOT to get him and i'm not sure even that would do it. houston would be dumb to let him go. they're already contending with he harden and howard. they're a few small moves away from a ring and they aren't getting melo. if they can pull of bosh AND keep parsons they're there.
he's restricted also. lance isn't. i think lance gives you everything parsons does. I put parsons, hayward and stephenson all in the same boat of young talent. stephenson is the best defender and athlete, parsons has the best size and best all around - probably the best playmaker, hayward is the better shooter/scorer. but they are all close in a lot of ways.
lance is unrestricted. we can have him now and then work on love. the other guys are complete toss ups that could leave us without a chair when the music stops. simple as that. if all 3 are unrestricted, i'm favoring parsons then hayward then stephenson. especially if we're talking equal salaries. but we aren't. we're talking about lance being the cheapest (probably) and the only unrestricted. that's weighing in the factors.
the same things you're talking about with george hill (and you forgot evan turner) are the same things that happened with lebron and chalmers or with countless other players who get hot in the middle of battle. it's eerily similar to steve smith. we really NEED a guy with that kind of fire, that kind of wild card. if it isn't him, it's somebody else but you kind of have to have that guy on the roster somewhere.
sandy - you talking about kemba becoming the 3rd-5th option is exactly my point and what i've been saying for MONTHS. they can't pay him like he's a #2 or 3 if he's going to be 4 or 5. and he's just not good enough to be a 1 or 2. and needs to improve to be a good 3. lance would at the least be a better #2. realistically a #3 if you assume that zeller becomes the #2 and love/jefferson is the 1.
it remains (and yes this is broken record here) that stephenson + love is the best way to get to contention in a sustainable (and realistic) way.
and yeah anybody giving up on the 20 year old elite defender we have just doesn't get it. simple as that. there's only 1 ball, you don't need 5 scorers in the lineup and the guy scores A LOT per touch look it up. give him the effing ball and stop talking about he can't shoot. shooting is pretty hard when you don't have the ball.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 7, 2014 1:06:46 PM
"That means Kemba will be an All-Star two years from now."
Never happen. Not even in the top half of the league now and better talent entering every year....
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 7, 2014 1:58:03 PM
Hmmm, let me see Kemba's #'s (Per ESPN):
03 in Blocks Per Game
04 in Minutes Per Game
05 in Rebounds Per Game
09 in Points Per Game
12 in Free Throw Percentage
13 in Assists Per Game
13 in TO Per Game (25MPG Plus)
13 in Double-Doubles in 2013-14
That certainly looks like an above average PG to me (Top Half of the League). Also, he is only in his 3rd Year, 24y/o, and finally getting to play for a good coach and pretty decent supporting cast.
Again, 2 years ago you said he would be in the Italian League and he is an above average PG. Your newest prediction means he "will be an All-Star two years from now." I feel pretty confident he will be a Top 12-15 in every single category next year, assuming he is healthy.
Posted by: RobC | Jul 7, 2014 2:21:42 PM
#17 based on PER (per ESPN) which is clearly more comprehensive and accurate than your cherry picking nonsense.
Bottom half, going lower....
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 7, 2014 2:36:27 PM
#49...true shooting percentage.
#48...offensive rebound rate (lazy, doesn't follow shot...and too short)
Hello Italian League!!
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 7, 2014 2:50:46 PM
^^^^ extreme. he's absolutely nba caliber and probably starter caliber for the next 8-10 years.
but rob......those are volume stats. everybody that plays a bunch of minutes accumulates those stats. what he lacks in are efficiency stats. he doesn't run an efficient offense and he doesn't score well with the possessions he's given. he dribbles out the shot clock quite a bit.
he IS a really good rebounder for the position. he IS a good ball player overall. what he isn't, is a legit #2 scorer on a contender. probably not a #3 on a contender at this point either, but probably could be at some point. i just hope they don't overpay him. mcroberts got midlevel for 4 years. that's about equal to what kemba is and probably will be worth. maybe more like what henderson got. just not these idiotic deals that people have been handing mediocre point guards over the last several years.
lowry got significantly overpaid and he's above average. but jennings, conley, hill? all overpaid. lin too probably. teague is about right, maybe conley is too, but i wouldn't put kemba in front of either of those 2 guys. he should be under 8 a year and i expect he is expecting 9-10 or more. and he might could get someone else to give him that next summer also. at which point, S&T would be the correct route.
the league is loaded with pgs right now, you just can't afford to overpay that position for an efficient scoring 1.
Posted by: charlottean | Jul 7, 2014 3:43:19 PM
"McBob a BIG upside surprise but Air Minny will prob let him get away."
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Jul 8, 2014 10:59:08 AM
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