March 30, 2015
On Big Al's body, Lance sitting and Cody a late scratch
Three takeaways from the Charlotte Hornets’ 116-104 home loss to the Boston Celtics:
Big Al is hurting: In order to continue playing, center Al Jefferson has twice had fluid drained from his sore right knee over the past week.
Jefferson’s game is based in skill, not athleticism, but his movement is obviously impeded right now. His body is betraying him and I don’t know if that can improve over the final nine games.
Lance Stephenson sits: For the first time this season Clifford chose not to play Stephenson at all. Clifford said all the right things post-game about how Stephenson shouldn’t be blamed for the team’s struggles. Stephenson chose his words carefully, saying this is out of his hands and that he believes he can help the Hornets win.
At this point I don’t know what you could get for Stephenson in trade. The Hornets might be better off at the trade deadline next February, when the guaranteed portion of his contract be close to expiring.
Zeller a scratch Monday: I was surprised to hear Monday morning that Cody Zeller planned to play against the Celtics. I watched him work out Saturday and he took almost all his shots with his left arm. The pain in his sprained right shoulder flared up after morning shootaround, so Zeller missed his sixth consecutive game.
Posted by Observer Sports on March 30, 2015 at 11:33 PM | Permalink
OK nastar , your assessment of Clifford seems to be the truth. So what would you change , if anything? If you were owner or gm of Boobland , would Clifford be your man , clawing for 8 seed , playing broken down vets , little development , maybe losing players trust , not to mention fans? Or would you cut ties , go the brad Stevens route , and do things differently? How would you make Boobland a winning franchise?
Posted by: Danny c | Mar 31, 2015 6:27:35 AM
Yeah Nastars , what say you ?
Posted by: ironman | Mar 31, 2015 6:54:45 AM
1. Coach Cliff stays for now.
2. The entire "front office" is given their walking papers -- including the Director of Player Personel one Larry Jordan, what a laugh that one is!
(not that Larry is truly "front office" but a no free-loaders out with the old in with the new message has to be sent)
3. Go hire a skilled operating executive like a Donny Walsh or a Danny Ferry.
4. Get out of the way.
Coach Cliff sinks or swims on his own merits with the new guy. More than likely the new guy will want to bring in his own coach but Coach Cliff deserves a chance to show what he can really do. If there's one thing we know for certain, coaching under The Midgets is like being handed a knife while walking into a gunfight -- just aint a fair fight!!
NOTE: to be clear, the new guy in charge gets a clean slate -- if he wants to replace Coach Cliff, the coach is gone. KitKats made a bad mistake forcing Getty to keep RowBoat Ron.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Mar 31, 2015 9:20:18 AM
Sounds like a good start. Say you're the next coach in boobland. What players stay , and why , and who's out the door?
Posted by: Danny c | Mar 31, 2015 9:51:34 AM
Having had season tickets now for years and being at most of the games let me counter point this.
Clifford needs to go. He slams players and rarely takes ownership for any loss himself. His line-ups at times are just stupid as our subs at key moments. Also key timeout moments missed. We also can never run a play at the end of the game. Are team isn't that bad so how do we never get any decent open look for last shot like every other team does in the league??
On the to go list:
Clifford - see above
Big Al- but we are stuck with him. His best year ever was last year.
Lance- he had moments of brilliance with Biz during some games but outside of that a total miss.
MKG is a must
Biz at a cheap price yes
Mo Williams shockingly
Just trade them out for anybody better:
Marvin, well actually anyone not on a rookie contract or mentioned above.
Worst is us and the league are going to have crazy dollars to spend against cap and all these bottom players will be making $6mm a year.
Will make Hendo look like a steal.
Wish I was celtics setup. team on fringe of making playoffs and what 3 first round picks for next 5 years it seems. They will be champs or close to it in 3 years or less. amazing!!
Posted by: Season Ticket Holder | Mar 31, 2015 10:35:59 AM
Nobody should be supporting Clifford on the grounds that he was incentivized to win now. He didn't even do that well.
If he wanted to win now, he would have played biz more. The guy did nothing right on any level. It took him a year and a half to start playing mkg and cody big minutes.
The guy has no clue. He doesn't get a pass or credibility because he was a good assistant who surely prepared very detailed reports for his bosses.
Dunlap came highly recommended by Karl who holds more weight than either van gundy given his success in multiple places. And Dunlap actually won as a head coach in 3 different leagues.
Clifford is probably a great assistant bit he is an idiot as a leader. ,
Posted by: charlottean | Mar 31, 2015 11:23:06 AM
like it would be excusable if we actually sacrificed long term for short term success. but we scarified long term for short term failure.
So he failed at what he tried to do and what he should have done both.
They should have never fired dunlap. even if he WAS the wrong guy, they should have rode out his cheap contract at least 1 more year if not the 2 and tried to coach him into becoming a more likable guy. but at the very least we would have developed cody, biz, and mkg more.
kemba had a really nice game last night. the problem is.....he doesn't shoot like that consistently so him having games like that only encourage him to play the wrong way more in the future. the 12 assists were awesome though. just further proof of what he COULD be doing. the skill set is there. the coaching and acceptance of coaching is not. the guy should be a pass-first pg who scores ~ 13 a game.
he is kenny anderson with slightly lower shooting numbers and lower turnover numbers. nobody should be giving the next kenny anderson a primary scorer role and a 48 million dollar extension if they want to win. it's just dumb.
we need smarter people in the room.
Posted by: charlottean | Mar 31, 2015 12:03:18 PM
"Nobody should be supporting Clifford on the grounds that he was incentivized to win now. He didn't even do that well."
He did it well enough to guarantee a $2,000,000 payday. Nobody is jumping up and down saying Coach Cliff is the greatest thing since sliced bread...just explaining how he's incented and how that affects his decision making. That said, he's better at his job than either Cho of His Minimumness.
"If he wanted to win now, he would have played biz more. The guy has no clue."
Thats your opinion to which you are entitled. However, (i) when the front office makes a high profile free agent signing and pays the guy $13mm+ per year, and that guy crushes it and makes All-NBA, the likelihood of a no-catching no-dribbling no-shooting WAG (wild ass gamble) supplanting him on a regular basis is basically nil.
"Dunlap came highly recommended by Karl who holds more weight than either van gundy given his success in multiple places. And Dunlap actually won as a head coach in 3 different leagues."
All 3 coaches are entirely credible and the "weight" of their recommendations is equal. Nobody knocked Dunlap in this thread, actually the opposite is true.
"Clifford is probably a great assistant bit he is an idiot as a leader."
Yet The Midgets hired him anyway and incented him improperly. Why? Because Air Minny thinks he's smarter than any coach out there and the thought of paying one of them $5,000,000 or more per year makes him sick to his stomach.
If Coach Cliff gets run off Air Minny will just replace him with another less than optimal choice who he gets on the cheap. Would love to see where Cho and Clifford rank vs. their peers in terms of pay. I wouldn't be surprised if Cho is THE lowest paid GM in the league.
You get what you pay for.
(Boobcats season ticket holders being an exception...in the Boobsylum the rules go out the window!)
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Mar 31, 2015 12:16:01 PM
Danny c, that would be putting the cart before the horse as we'd need to know what kind of strategy the new operating exec is putting in place, and what kind of coach he wants to hire to execute it. Fact is, I'd leave it to the basketball guys, I'm the deep pocketed owner and am gonna hire and properly incent basketball/operating guys I trust and have faith in...you know, kind of like the Holt's and the Kraft's of the world do ;)
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Mar 31, 2015 12:20:22 PM
"we need smarter people in the room."
Exactly. The Midgets are completely overwhelmed by their competition. As long as The Midgets are in place this franchise will struggle mightily.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Mar 31, 2015 12:23:59 PM
Cho is a piece of shit
Posted by: Yo | Mar 31, 2015 12:42:35 PM
Who stays and who goes?
Michael Jordan. Chairman
Curtis Polk. Vice Chairman
Fred Whitfield. President
Rich Cho. Executive VP , GM
Chad Buchanan. Assistant GM
James Jordan. Executive VP of Operations
Posted by: Danny c | Mar 31, 2015 1:00:05 PM
The fat lady has sung.
Posted by: eduardo | Mar 31, 2015 1:06:13 PM
Danny c, the only guy with even a remote chance of staying would be Buchanan. All the rest need to go...be g-o-n-e.
And Buchanan would be on a make good deal with no guarantees on what his role might be...the new operating exec could choose to keep him, or not.
Clean sweep is needed.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Mar 31, 2015 1:30:50 PM
I found my new Director of Player Personnel...
He's talking all kinds of sense on 610 right now.
Slaying the front office for taking on Lance.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Mar 31, 2015 3:25:12 PM
OK , so Clifford is after the playoffs for personal incentives , extension , or whatever else. But some of his moves makes you wonder what's going on in his head. I know injuries are part of the reasons but still:
Putting Taylor in the game with 20 seconds left after he sat all night. And then getting the starting position.
Having PJ in his doghouse practically all season , then suddenly he's in the rotation.
After lances noticeable improvement in recent games he gets no minutes.
Needing 3 pts at games end why is al even on the floor , much less taking a 3 ?
Playing kemba and mo together when both have to shoot every possession and get abused on d.
Maxiell starting the second half.
Biz being subject to being yanked at any moment.
Can't wait to see what happens next.
Posted by: Danny c | Mar 31, 2015 5:23:06 PM
Wow. NASTAR must be back from spring break. How was Panama City? Does that rank any higher on spring break destinations than you do at your job? 30 jobs running NBA teams, 32 running NFL teams, etc. It is amazing you don't have one. LMAO.
Posted by: Mike | Mar 31, 2015 5:45:39 PM
"Wow" Oh yea it ain't over mf....(ice cube famous quote). Nastar and Charlottean you two make a lot of good points. But at the same time it seems as something is missing. Charlottean the former head coach of the
Bobcats Mike Dunlap is atrocious as a head coach. The right decision was made to can him because he is the head coach of Loyola Marymount and the record for 2014(8-23) and 2015 (4-13) in the conference.
Now Clifford had a successful college career and was a student under Stan and Jeff Van Gundy. He def needs more time, but I would stick Pat Ewing in there immediately cause I think he can develop a better defense mentality even tho Cliff is known for defense but its not happening. Furthermore I prefer them not to make the playoffs to get bounced out quickly or swept. We need a higher draft pick this time around. And the players have suffered through injury. And Big Al needs to retire because he can't stay healthy or relevant on the defensive end.
Posted by: tbird | Mar 31, 2015 6:37:20 PM
Danny c the inimitable ironman thinks the same as you, namely Coach Cliff stinks, more power to all of ya!
That said, I think we can agree on 2 things:
1. Clifford is trying to win now and understandably so given the incentives in his contract.
2. Player development of "fan" favorites is no concern of his.
It has been noted that you, ironman, and charlottean all think Coach Cliff is doing a bad job of trying to win now - I hear you loud and clear.
But of all the top execs in Boobland the Coach Cliff is the best at his job, all the others are worse at their jobs....call him the tallest midget if you like!
My point is firing Coach Cliff is a useless exercise because Air Minny, Yes Co. & Cho will simply set up some other coach for failure...
...rinse & repeat, rinse & repeat, rinse & repeat.
We are on the 6th cycle now. We need a new machine, this one is broken, permanently broken.
The financial results for this year once they are leaked should be some real eye-openers!! (and they will get leaked)
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Mar 31, 2015 7:26:19 PM
I agree on most of the points on the team. That is why I have not renewed this year and won't until I see tangible progress. But the financial insinuations are laughable. The franchise value has gone up and up since MJ bought it and every credible source has them now turning a profit. The NBA fleeced the players and it has helped almost every team in the NBA. Money is not the probelm there that is for sure.
Posted by: Former Season Ticket Holder | Mar 31, 2015 7:41:54 PM
"...every credible source has them now turning a profit."
Guess you missed this one -- lost $34 million before the foodstamps check last year.
"The Hornets and Pistons would be dead without revenue sharing, and they’re expected to end up in the red even with it. Charlotte is projected to lose nearly $34 million in basketball operations, and its monster estimated $22 million revenue-sharing check can’t make up for that."
PS....good for you for backing away -- that's the only thing owners respond to, empty seats.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Mar 31, 2015 7:52:07 PM
Danny c, you comments about Clifford are spot on. He make crazy coaching moves that makes you think he wants to lose. Biz was buried on the bench to start the season. Cody was playing only 20 minutes a game. It was like once Cody got 20 minutes, Clifford would not play him anymore. If Lance plays bad he gets yanked. If Kemba, Al or Mo play bad, they get rewarded by being able to keep on playing bad. Clifford doesn't coach Al, Kemba or Mo. They are free do whatever they want. Henderson was carrying the team on offense one game and Clifford sat him on the bench to play Mo and Kemba together. They got tourched on defense!! He kept Henderson on the bench too long and stuck him back in the game with a few minutes to go. There is no way in the world Clifford ever gets a head coaching job in the NBA.
Posted by: Jon | Mar 31, 2015 8:21:29 PM
Here are some rumors : Calipari has met w Mj twice about replacing Clifford . Mp jumped ship . He was offered the job here if Clifford didn't get them to the playoffs . Lance and Cliffird at at odds big time . Mj is pissed bc he spent big money on rebranding , is not getting to the playoffs and is not getting his return on Al .
Posted by: ironman | Mar 31, 2015 8:38:02 PM
I will go with the latest Forbes info. Franchise value 725 million. Operating income 1.2 million. Food Stamps or not. Huge increase in franchise value since Jordan bought the team and Forbes has them turning a profit. He is not getting my money, but that does not seem to matter. It is kind of funny all the conjecture about the front office, etc but when actual information is available about their finances it is ignored. Not the best way to make an argument.
Posted by: Former Season Ticket Holder | Mar 31, 2015 8:42:31 PM
Jon is right. Whenever Clifford is no longer with the Hornets it will be his last head coaching job. That is all anyone needs to know. Yes they hired the wrong guy. Again.
Posted by: Real | Mar 31, 2015 8:53:48 PM
Its not about developing fan favorites , its about developing , period. Stevens is developing quite a team that is really not better than the hornets. Smart , Bradley , Zeller , olyneck , crowder , sullinger , young. Add cauley -stien or frank or Winslow and a couple free agents and you have a top 5 east team , in Stevens 3rd year. Clifford's 3rd year? Will be a hobbling al, old mo jacking 3s and turnovers , Marvin who should be 2nd team and kemba wanting to be a one man show. But they're all his boys , he will ride them till the end. Its all on Clifford , not cho. Cho doesn't make the rotations. The Celtics will fight for home court advantage and the hornets fighting for 8 seed , same as this year , same as last year.
Posted by: Danny c | Mar 31, 2015 9:02:48 PM
STH the Grantland folks saw internal NBA memos, real numbers. Are you choosing to ignore that information? Forbes info way off base, nothing but a WAG.
Danny c how is it possible that Air Minny, Yes Co & Cho signed 5 lousy coaches in a row? You think #6 will be better?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Mar 31, 2015 9:56:00 PM
Wait, wasn't rebranding the answer to all this franchise's problems?
The old Hornet guard would flock back and the glory days would be relived.
Problem is, you still have Hendo as your shooting guard, there is still no one to play center and you have a star guard who is average as far as stars go.
And your top, energy type defender can't stay on the court.
Finally, the draft keeps being useless as the new guys don't contribute.
8th or worse is the norm and no playoffs wins yet.
Posted by: BD | Mar 31, 2015 10:13:19 PM
So if you think #6 will be a failure , so how long do you give #5 ? A new coach , be it who it may , would come in and start from scratch . Clean slate , no favorites. Everyone proves their worth , from the all NBA center down to the non used first round pick. Sam v won 32 games with felton , Richardson , Wallace and nazr. Clifford won't win many more than that this year , and that's with an all NBA center , former player of the month pg ( not really a pg ) and seasoned vet mo. Maybe give Sam another shot , I wouldn't object.
Posted by: Danny c | Mar 31, 2015 10:43:48 PM
Cmon NASTAR. I am critical, but you are the one that quoted Forbes like the bible. Some of your points are legit, some are not, like supporting this coach. But disputing info you used to use to support your argument? Tsk tsk. Very Disappointing.
Posted by: Real | Mar 31, 2015 10:47:52 PM
Real at one point the Forbes info was all we had. This new info surfaced and crazy thing is the new info indicates things were way worse than Forbes ever thought even when they were posting losses for Boobs. Sports Business Daily info also available supporting the position that this team has not turned a profit since before 2006 if ever. Head in sanders will think what they think...
Danny c no coach will ever truly succeed at delivering in The Promises while working for The Midgets, that's the way I see it.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Mar 31, 2015 10:59:23 PM
Tbird....you, like sandy, are judging the guy on 1 season without players. Hes won at 3 different levels.
Let him actually have the job a while and p3ople will talk about him like they do bennett or larananga. The guy is an a hole, but the guy is a helluva coach. Ask anybody that ever knew him or played for him. and he actually focused on player development. Unfortunately we had mullens and thomas instead of cody and vonleh.
Mkg had a good year for him. Kemba had his best year for him.
I get a lot of ish for saying dunlap can coach, hurney was a good gm, fox should have been given a lifetime contract, biz should start over al, morrison was only a bust because we made him one, etc. Unpopular opinions.
A lot of people telling me i was right about biz and clifford and mkg lately. Looooooooot of people.
I mean its like ajinca is having a solid year in new orleans or anything.
Its expensive, but try to pay attention.
Posted by: charlottean | Apr 1, 2015 7:00:24 AM
So now The Forbes info was not only wrong, they are ignoring other info that could impact their findings. Sorry. That does not fly. They definitely had financial issues in the past. But the entire league has seen its financial model improve and the franchises are growing in value every day, Jordan fleeced Johnson and has benefited from it. Your hate knows no bounds and you are right about some things, but you are dead wrong here.
Posted by: Real | Apr 1, 2015 7:16:03 AM
Nastars ... Pls publish what you believe the financial shape of The team is in . Is it still hemmoraging cash ? Did Al make a difference ? Will the new tv contract put them in the black ? Where was Forbes getting its misinfo from ?
Posted by: ironman | Apr 1, 2015 8:23:39 AM
"So now The Forbes info was not only wrong, they are ignoring other info that could impact their findings."
Grantland had the source and the exclusive scoop, Forbes didn't. Yes, this is how journalism work. And yes, Forbes clearly did ignore the info...no way they are going to cite Grantland and simultaneously say "oops all our previous work was off base (it was) and we are retracting it."
Are you still sticking with the Rolling Stone's version of the UVa rape story?
Real, have you read the Grantland article and specifically the part about the info source and how they confirmed its authenticity?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 1, 2015 8:35:14 AM
"Nastars ... Pls publish what you believe the financial shape of The team is in . Is it still hemmoraging cash ? Did Al make a difference ? Will the new tv contract put them in the black ? Where was Forbes getting its misinfo from ?"
Really lousy sources
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 1, 2015 8:49:24 AM
Post some sources reports.
And Learn some finance. The guy is making money off of owning the team. Bottom line net to jordan is significantly positive profit.
Posted by: charlottean | Apr 1, 2015 10:08:32 AM
A quick goole search shows he bought the team for 175m reportedly. Worth more than 700m now. Revenue sharing, largest TV deal in sports, bigger cut for owners. More positive business news than you can ever post here.
The hater of all haters is back with more vitriol. Something must have happened. Gov't probably cut off some of his benefits.
Posted by: Mike | Apr 1, 2015 10:45:45 AM
"And Learn some finance. The guy is making money off of owning the team. Bottom line net to jordan is significantly positive profit."
Now that is funny! (and wrong)
All the newspaper articles in the world saying "the Boobs are now worth $XYZ,000" are worth exactly $0 until the team is sold for $XYZ,000.
Do you think when it comes time to write those checks to the banks to pay down the debt Ol' Air Minny simply waves a Forbes magazine at the bankers and they say "awww Air Minny don't worry about paying off your loans"...?
Owning this team cost Bob Johnson hundreds of millions of dollars of losses on an operating basis, and a bunch more losses when he sold it.
Owning this team has cost His Minimumness tons and tons of money as operating losses in well....until he sells it the purported "value" is irrelevant. Nice pretty Forbes magazine articles don't accrue to the "bottom line net".
LOL...unlike you and your unsupportable "Lance has a $100 million offer in China" assertions, I can back up my position, and have...and maybe I will again ;)
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 1, 2015 10:46:40 AM
and I found this. The Sports Business Daily has a ton of stuff. Thanks NASTAR. I am sure all kinds of teams hemoragging cash are in consideration for this this...LMAO
Sports Team of the Year
Los Angeles Kings
St. Louis Cardinals
Posted by: Mike | Apr 1, 2015 10:59:55 AM
Here it is:
"The Bobcats’ operating losses have exceeded $30 million in recent seasons. Before the 2009-10 season began, internal projections anticipated similar losses over the next three years."
For charlottean the DVR expert who can't read or write, here's what that says...
Prior to the 2009-2010 season operating losses had exceeded $30,000,000 for "recent seasons". This implies at least 3 so lets list them:
2005-2006 = $30mm++ of losses
2006-2007 = $30mm++ of losses
2008-2009 = $30mm++ of losses
Then it says internal projections are for "similar losses over the next 3 years". So let's list those:
2009-2010 = $30mm++ of losses
2010-2011 = $30mm++ of losses
2011-2012 = $30mm++ of losses
(so far that's $180,000,00 for those keeping score at home)
Then we factor in the Grantland report where NBA internal documents show the Boobs as having lost $34mm in 2013-2014 before foodstamps, $12mm after. So let's list everything we know:
2005-2006 = $30mm++ of losses
2006-2007 = $30mm++ of losses
2008-2009 = $30mm++ of losses
2009-2010 = $30mm++ of losses
2010-2011 = $30mm++ of losses
2011-2012 = $30mm++ of losses
2012-2013 = ????
2013-2014 = $34mm of losses (pre-food stamps)
2014-2015 = TBD
charlottean are you suggesting the team turned a $250,000,000 profit in 2012-2013 thereby securing a "significant positive bottom line net" for His Minimumness?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 1, 2015 11:07:30 AM
Typo, should read:
2006-2007 = $30mm++ of losses
2007-2008 = $30mm++ of losses
2008-2009 = $30mm++ of losses
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 1, 2015 11:15:04 AM
"Charlotte Bobcats owner Bob Johnson absorbed roughly $80 million in operating losses over the course of his NBA investment, driving the billionaire founder of BET to sell the team earlier this month to Michael Jordan.
According to a source familiar with the deal, the team has suffered about $100 million in operating losses since Johnson bought it for $300 million in 2003."
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 1, 2015 11:26:12 AM
"Industry experts estimate the team loses $30 million to $40 million annually. Whitfield declined to discuss specific numbers but acknowledges the team is running deficits."
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 1, 2015 11:27:54 AM
Go ahead and stick your heads back in the sand boys....
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 1, 2015 11:32:20 AM
Operating losses and realized capital losses are completely different things.
Hornets operating losses and arena operations are handled separately.
Keep kidding yourself. You are highly uneducated in this field and unintelligent in general. It shows in your commentary.
Posted by: charlottean | Apr 1, 2015 12:50:13 PM
Dude is quoting 2009 articles. Great idea.
Posted by: charlottean | Apr 1, 2015 1:17:55 PM
"Operating losses and realized capital losses are completely different things."
How about you walk us through the proper way to think about it specifically as it relates to the Boobs?
While you're doing so include some numbers.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 1, 2015 1:19:30 PM
ahh. You guys should leave him alone . Nastars nailed it . Mike are you on welfare ? You seem to bring that up a lot .
Mj tho is making some moves . Look for a new coach , for Kemba to start diming per mandate , that Als role will be reduced so Vonleh can show waht he can do . More ball movement . I believe Als days are numbered here . Moes too . Players revolted over the two man game of those two sanctioned by Clifford .
Don't believe anything else than this is Kembas team . Al stabbed him in the back by bringing Moe in and delaying his return to the starting lineup . Kemba has to dime tho to keep those two in reduced roles . Kemba has to get 8 assists a game . Will let him slide w 7 .
When Al is in , he better not hold the ball or miss teamates bc he's going to get sounded on at his next stop in advance . Everywhere the guy goes , he blows out his welcome bc he's greedy and shiftless on defense .
Calipari. Avery . Mark Jackson . The guy in Fla .
Posted by: ironman | Apr 1, 2015 1:27:45 PM
Nope. I just know that someone with as much time on their hands as that guy is not doing much.
Posted by: Mike | Apr 1, 2015 3:00:39 PM
What else do you know Mike?
"Operating losses and realized capital losses are completely different things."
charlottean's words...you want to take a shot at walking us through the proper way to think about that specifically as it relates to the Boobs? If so use numbers.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 1, 2015 3:15:15 PM
Lol. What if he's retired like me ? Tired of golfing , strip joints , hanging out ? And a bb junkie ? I'm coming out of retirement in 5 months to do a project for veterans who aren't treated timely and properly . Going to go after some entities who deviate from the standard of care etc . He's smarter than half the lawyers I know . Maybe I should hire him .
What if we did a class action against the boobs for breach of contract , misrepresentation , unjust enrichment and fruad ? Nastars would be my first witness in my case in chief . Lol. On the real tho , Mj is doing a wonderful job from where he came from . He's not a lawyer . Not a Cpa . Never went to B school . Is not a guy associated w a private equity firm or hedge fund etc . But look how far he's gotten . You have to look at the entire picture . As Nastars says , this is a game for multi billionaires . The flip side is that he's doing it by the seat of his pants but is pulling it off . You did say " maybe " as to getting in The black when the new tv contract comes .
Thanks loads for the info Nastars . Ot . Sandy is going to have a ton of explaining to do when Al finally gets run out of town bc of The reasons why . I can't effing wait . All this Player Efficiency Rating bs will be exposed as a joke . .... As it should be ..
Mj got pissed when the espn ratings came out on front offices , owners ,point gds and Gms . As he should have . Kemba got exposed . But why now ?
Posted by: ironman | Apr 1, 2015 3:43:06 PM
You own a house that costs 100 to maintain each month and is vacant. Operating loss.
Value of the house goes up whether vacant or not at a rate more than 100 a month.
You can be profitable as an investor with operating losses Via increased equity valuation. His equity has skyrocketed.
if cash is needed, there are financing options. Espexially for nba teams, especially at these interest rates, especially one with almost no money on the books long term.
You do not know what you are talking about. I keep giving it to you in basic form and you keep trolling to the contrary.
Posted by: charlottean | Apr 1, 2015 6:54:22 PM
OK, I can understand that...!
You said: "The guy is making money off of owning the team."
Let's say you have a bank account with $7,200 in it.
You have owned the house for 6 years and made 72 expenditures of $100 for maintenance.
At the end of the 6th year you have not sold the house...
...how much money is in your bank account?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 1, 2015 7:04:41 PM
"NASTAR". Hell man. You are still trolling the team? How long has it been since you were let go? 6 year or 7 years? MJ did not even own it then. It is almost all new people. Of everyone that turned over, you are the one that can't move on? Look at this chain dude.
Posted by: Josh K. | Apr 1, 2015 7:53:11 PM
I know Kemba gets killed on his passing here, but he would easily have 10 assists tonight already if this team could shoot at all. They miss wide open look after wide open look he sets them up for.
Posted by: Fast Freddie | Apr 1, 2015 8:34:27 PM
As much as you want. You can sell any time, you can obtain loans or new partners at any time.
Operating losses do not affect equity gains unless you can't make the cash calls. Jordan direct have that problem. He actually acquired a slew of minority shares from people who couldn't make their cash calls.
At least troll in 2015 and not in 2009. All I ask. Facts are way too much to ask of you.
Posted by: charlottean | Apr 2, 2015 2:28:15 AM
"As much as you want."
How much? Give us a number.
"You can sell any time, you can obtain loans or new partners at any time."
Hmm, really? Has Minny "sold, obtained loans" or "taken on new partners"? If so, how do those action affect the cash account?
How do the loans work? Do they have to be paid back? Is taking out a loan the same as "making money on the team"?
"Operating losses do not affect equity gains unless you can't make the cash calls."
Nor do equity gains have any affect on annual profits/losses (all losses at the Boobsylum) which drive the need for "cash calls", right? Has Air Minny added any "loans" like you referenced above? If so how do they affect profits/losses/cash calls"?
"Jordan direct have that problem."
Not so far.
"He actually acquired a slew of minority shares from people who couldn't make their cash calls."
Very interesting, first I've seen you acknowledge that this really happened.
You do realize there are two reasons a partner may not choose to cover a "cash call"...?? 1. Can't. 2. Choose not to.
Air Minny's partners were the who's who...Sabates, McColl, Beck's, etc...none of those folks "can't". So explain to us why they chose not to (and that's exactly what happened).
"At least troll in 2015 and not in 2009. All I ask. Facts are way too much to ask of you."
Those articles cover all the seasons from 2006-2007 right up to the Grantland article that gave detailed information directly from internal NBA documents about the 2013-2014 season.
This is really neat, feel like you are teaching me so much.
Really look forward to your reply and thank you!
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 2, 2015 9:33:25 AM
"He actually acquired a slew of minority shares from people who couldn't make their cash calls."
Oh, one other thing, why were cash calls necessary?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 2, 2015 10:11:52 AM
cash calls are part of business just like dividends and payroll. your ignorance on the topic is just glaring. not going to keep explaining it.
house goes up in value, you have good credit and income (which jordan has in spades), you can up your leverage ratio and put some of that equity in ownership's pocket.
it appears pretty obvious that jordan used cash calls intentionally to get rid of some minority partners that had no business being partners yet didn't want to sell for less than they put in. asking them to put up their share of a 20 million loss every year for 3 years will do the trick.
how many foms on payroll that are absolutely superfluous to the operation of the organization? those payroll figures don't lie and they're optional to be that fluffed. there is such a thing as intentional operating losses for people in his tax bracket. i'm sure he would prefer making 100 million a year, but if he can make it so they are losing money on the basketball side to max out the shared revenue and then make money back on the arena operations side.....that's just good business.
the guy is dumb. his accountants and lawyers and business managers are not. not at all. many of them border on brilliant. unfortunately, they don't know anything about basketball or don't care to involve themselves or jordan doesn't want their input because part of being an owner is having the luxury to take on the challenge himself no matter how overmatched he is.
i'm probably the most frustrated person by it because of the amount of obvious mistakes they have made and obvious moves they have missed on. but the idea that jordan is somehow hurting by owning the team is just purely delusional.
your boy prokhorov isn't looking so hot these days since the oil markets cooled and russian conflicts flared up. funny how he and clifford were your shining golden examples for the last 2 years.
think about it. he's spending twice as much in operating losses to get the same w/l record and comparable % in equity growth. sure he's got a few billion in blood money to throw around at such problems, but what good has it done?
"Prokhorov paid about $220 million for his share of the Nets, which according to ESPN lost $144 million last season." - bloomberg. if you really want to talk hemorrhaging cash.
Posted by: charlottean | Apr 2, 2015 11:26:26 AM
"cash calls are part of business just like dividends and payroll. your ignorance on the topic is just glaring. not going to keep explaining it."
Sophisticated /accredited investors refer to them as capital calls but don't let that slow you down fella ;)
Capital calls and dividends are pretty much mutually exclusive in case you wondered.
"how many foms on payroll that are absolutely superfluous to the operation of the organization? those payroll figures don't lie and they're optional to be that fluffed."
WTF does that even mean? Are you smoking crystal meth at 11.30 in the morning?
"it appears pretty obvious that jordan used cash calls intentionally to get rid of some minority partners that had no business being partners yet didn't want to sell for less than they put in. asking them to put up their share of a 20 million loss every year for 3 years will do the trick.
...so they are losing money on the basketball side to max out the shared revenue and then make money back on the arena operations side.....that's just good business."
Let me see if I have this correct...you're saying Michael Jordan isolated all the bad parts of the business in one vehicle and dumped those losses on his sophisticated partners (like Hugh McColl, Felix Sabates, the Beck family, etc...) in order to drive them out -- while simultaneously siphoning off any profitable parts of the business to keep for himself?
That sounds like a perfect description of fraud.
Do you really believe guys like McColl & Sabates would stand for that?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 2, 2015 6:54:15 PM
Oh, one other thing, in your house example...
...do you assume the price of the house can only go up?
Sure sounds like that's the backbone of your thesis.
What happens if the price of the house goes down?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 2, 2015 6:55:48 PM
"It’s rare that a sale of the team is put on such a fast track, but given that the Bobcats could have an operating loss between $30 million and $40 million this year, selling the team was critical to Johnson."
Apparently making " money back on the arena operations side" isn't the panacea you make it out to be...
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 2, 2015 10:47:32 PM
Nobody calls cash calls capital calls. Nobody. Capital means more than cash. Cash is a firm of capital. Can't pay for operating losses with non cash capital. But feel free to try.
And historically the house always goes up if you pay at true value. Doesn't mean it's up every day of the week, but over 10 year spans, it's up and beyond inflation. His house is way up.
And again you reference 2010 like it isn't a third of the way through 2015.
Keep spewing misinformation like the guy is broke. Might want to check his net income from last year. It's a big positive number.
Posted by: charlottean | Apr 3, 2015 2:03:12 PM
LOL...this is gonna be fun!
"Nobody calls cash calls capital calls. Nobody."
cash calls -- Phrase not found in the Dictionary and Encyclopedia.
capital calls -- A call for additional equity investment by shareholders or partners in order to fund cash shortfalls in development or operations, or to compensate for the falling value of noncash assets and the need to increase cash so that liabilities do not exceed assets.
Johnson and his Bobcats partners have also invested additional money in capital calls to shore up the team's finances.
Asked about the capital calls, Levine says, "Nobody likes that and nobody wants to hear that. I want to get a return (on investment). The sooner, the better. When you cut to the chase, we all want to see a return and we all want to win. That requires a good business plan."
Alright so that takes care of that patently false statement.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 3, 2015 2:54:23 PM
"And historically the house always goes up if you pay at true value."
Define "true value".
"Keep spewing misinformation like the guy is broke."
Nobody EVER said he was broke but the facts are the Boobs are strapped financially and it puts them at a competitive disadvantage.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 3, 2015 2:57:00 PM
You said: "the guy is dumb. his accountants and lawyers and business managers are not. not at all. many of them border on brilliant. unfortunately, they don't know anything about basketball or don't care to involve themselves or jordan doesn't want their input because part of being an owner is having the luxury to take on the challenge himself no matter how overmatched he is."
"According to a source familiar with Charlotte's inner workings, the voice that MJ relies on most is that of Curtis Polk, an analytics agnostic who conducts Jordan's business affairs and serves as the Hornets' vice chairman."
ESPN directly contradicts your statement.
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 3, 2015 3:00:24 PM
Hey what about that part where you said Michael Jordan isolated all the bad parts of the business in one vehicle and dumped those losses on his sophisticated partners (like Hugh McColl, Felix Sabates, the Beck family, etc...) in order to drive them out -- while simultaneously siphoning off any profitable parts of the business to keep for himself.
Can you fill me in some more on that topic?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 3, 2015 3:02:47 PM
Nothing i have said here is factually incorrect. Keep trying clown.
You have said hes broke numerous times.
Posted by: charlottean | Apr 4, 2015 1:34:40 AM
6 of the last 7 things you have said are false...and 8 of every 9 comments too you POSDB!
So, how abt you fill us in some more on Air Minny defrauding McColl/Sabates/Beck's with accounting manipulation you suggest is normal...??
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 4, 2015 4:26:58 PM
"You have said hes broke numerous times."
While you are at it post a link for Lance's $100,000,000 China Contract...HAHAHAHAHA!!
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 4, 2015 5:13:12 PM
You keep exposing your ignorance further with every post. As dumb as jordan is, you somehow manage to out do him.
Never called him broke? Figure out how dvr's work yet? How the shoes fit?
Posted by: charlottean | Apr 4, 2015 6:41:52 PM
As expected....n-o-t-h-i-n-g. Only gonna be more fun going forward.....
Seriously, no comment on the capital call and loss isolation strategy to drive out McColl, Sabates etc...?
Posted by: NASTAR99 | Apr 4, 2015 8:33:41 PM
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