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October 23, 2007
Fox deserves spot in top 10 coaches list
The bye week is a great time for catching up on reading and The Sporting News’ most-recent issue ranks the head coaches from top to bottom. Overall, it’s a solid list, but I can’t help wondering why John Fox isn’t a top 10 coach. He’s rated No. 14, which is at least four spots too low.
Can’t argue with Bill Belichick and Tony Dungy as the best coaches in the league. But Mike Shanahan at No. 3? Seriously, what’s he done since John Elway left? And Mike Holmgren at No. 4? He was great with Brett Favre in his prime, but he’s only slightly above average with Matt Hasselbeck and Shaun Alexander in their primes. Tennessee’s Jeff Fisher at No. 5 deserves to be at least two spots higher and Philadelphia’s Andy Reid, despite his struggles this year, is a top five coach.
Fox – even though he has faults (conservative offense and a defense that’s living off reputation) – belongs in the top 10. Joe Gibbs (at least in this go-around), Wade Phillips (too soon with the Cowboys) and Mike Tomlin (he’s only in his first year), don’t deserve the top 10 rankings they have.
Fox, for all his flaws, is a top 10 coach. He took a 1-15 team, made it very respectable, took it to two NFC Championship Games and a Super Bowl. He’s got credibility from the distant past and from recent events. He won a game with Vinny Testarverde still learning the playbook and has a very mediocre team sitting in first place in the NFC South. That’s enough to make him a top 10 coach.
A couple of other question marks in TSN’s list of top coaches: Brian Billick at No. 12? What’s he done since winning the Super Bowl? And Jack Del Rio at No. 15? Yep, the Jaguars have been competitive through his tenure, but what have they ever won? Del Rio made a name for himself by running down the sideline and jumping in a pile with the 2002 Panthers in their opener and interviewed way over his head to get the Jaguars job, but he’s not among the NFL’s elite and middle-of-the-road production isn’t going to keep him in good graces forever.
A couple of guys rated a little too low on TSN’s list: Buffalo’s Dick Jauron (No. 25, he’s winning with Trent Edwards at quarterback) and Detroit’s Rod Marinelli (No. 27, yes, he’s living off past reputation as Tampa Bay’s defensive line coach, but he had the sense to hand his offense off to Mike Martz).
– Pat Yasinskas
Posted by Observer Sports on October 23, 2007 at 11:37 AM | Permalink
Comments
Fox should be at the bottom. He has made poor choses in players. 1. Delome should have been benched. 2.Foster is still a backup running back. 3. Fox gets no respect from his team. Thats why they lose.
When he first came to Carolina they played for him because they did not know him. Now they know he is a push over they don't play.
That team is much better than they play.
They are my team but right now I am totally displeased with their performance mainly because of Fox's management.
Posted by: Hoyte Phifer | Oct 23, 2007 12:18:46 PM
i couldnt agree more. and what i like best is his ability to recruit the best/brightest coordinators to carolina i.e. henning, davidson, and the oddball savant that coached s.t.'s when we were blocking field goals all the time. it certainly speaks well of him...
and, btw, whos ass did wade philips kiss to get a top 10 rank?! whats that one all about??
Posted by: fox4pres | Oct 23, 2007 12:22:34 PM
i couldnt agree more. and what i like best is his ability to recruit the best/brightest coordinators to carolina i.e. henning, davidson, and the oddball savant that coached s.t.'s when we were blocking field goals all the time. it certainly speaks well of him...
and, btw, whos ass did wade philips kiss to get a top 10 rank?! whats that one all about??
Posted by: fox4pres | Oct 23, 2007 12:22:41 PM
fox is okay.....he isnt the best...but has made a few good choices.
Posted by: North Carolina Mortgage | Oct 23, 2007 12:32:55 PM
Lets see what kind of game plan and team management Fox comes up with this week verses the Colts and then we will see if he deserves a top ten rating. He has had two weeks to prepare. Get er done!
Posted by: Rich | Oct 23, 2007 12:36:12 PM
Are you serious or just trying to stir up comments? Fox's teams underachieve when they are favored and have shown no sparks of life the last two seasons.
This team's heart and passion is a direct reflexion of their coach
Posted by: wisdomfromhighonthemtn | Oct 23, 2007 12:58:06 PM
I agree. Fox is better than some of those coaches. He is a top ten coach. I can't stand those haters who just watch the game and think you know something. There is a reason you are sitting at home or in the stands. So shut up and quit the whining and support our Panthers.
Posted by: Tim | Oct 23, 2007 1:00:51 PM
any coach who inherits a 1-15 team and puts them in the Super Bowl after two years and gets to another NFC champ game two years later absolutely deserves a top 10 spot.
I think Reid, Bellichek, Dungy, Holmgren, and Fisher are all locks to be in the top 10 and Fox isnt too far behind those guys
Posted by: Mattdaddy | Oct 23, 2007 1:14:29 PM
Thanks Tim!!! Couldn't have said it better myself.
Posted by: SYRPIS | Oct 23, 2007 1:18:41 PM
Yea Fox is deff. a Top 10 coach. I've always liked him from his days here in NY and was excited when he was hired to coach my Panthers. i have been dissapointed with the way the team has played the past 2 years, but he's never had a terrible season here. I mean since when did we become the Yankees of football? His worst season's were 7-9...his first year and the year we started out 1-7 and finished 6-2. In this league of parity you cant expect to be a playoff team every year but he has kept us around .500 or better....he deserves a top 10 spot
Posted by: Da Bronx Mike | Oct 23, 2007 1:28:21 PM
Now is this list the top 10 coaches based on this season, or a top ten list of current coaches based on their career?
Posted by: Mattdaddy | Oct 23, 2007 1:35:24 PM
I agree with Fox belonging in the top 10. I also agree with the comment that a team's heart and passion are a reflection of the coach. One thing I was happy to see in the Arizona game was Coach Fox jumping up and down on the sidelines, huggin players, and just plain getting excited about the game. That's something we haven't seen enough of recently, and I hope it continues.
Posted by: Rowdy | Oct 23, 2007 2:15:11 PM
While I don't think Fox is a "BAD Coach" or terrible. I definitly Do not believe he is a "Good"coach. you see It varies from team to team but in carolina as with other teams the coach and GM work hand and hand. Fox/hurney Hurney does (draft,release/sign) the guys Fox tells him to. so someone said Fox is coaching a Mediocore team right now talent wise. and you may right but if that team is Mediocore IT's FOX FAULT! Coaching isn't just about Sundays....it's about More than anything almost as many coaches will tell you "The draft" and Fox has been pretty BAD! in this department. SO I think he is a good coach but Because he's one of the WORST! drafting bafoons! in the league. I downgrade him to Average. How do they say you live and Die with the draft..and when you put together multiple bad drefts...and re-sign the most injury prone players! (morgan) and release most productive player (Buckner) to and sign Sean Gilbert! (kemo) and yuo don't re-sign McCree! Mus but you sign..Keyshawn only to release him...and to draft Jarrett only to not even dress him..I could go on..but you guys are panther Fans and Know exactly what I am talking about and love fox or hate him.....you can't deny he's terrible! with the draft and that and that ALONE! is a direct correlation with 90% of this teams problems right now. Hence Fox is a Middle of the road coach Just like his team! My top 10 in no particular order
1. Billicheck
2. Andy Reid
3. Lovie smith
4. Tony Dungy
5. Marty Scheinhermer
6. Jack Del-rio
7. Joe Gibbs
8. John Gruden
9. Jeff Fisher
10. Mike Holgren
I like all these guys for different reasons..that Fox doesn't have. For instance..Del rio for his drafting ability..Jags Always draft really well! and have some of the best players at almost every position in the league they are just stuck in division with petyon manning..and Also The gutsy move to Release Leftwhich....REGARDLESS of how much he was getting paid! and his draft status..he wasn't getting the job done. (fox would never have done that) so.....just an exmaple.
Posted by: Cheven | Oct 23, 2007 2:23:28 PM
If Fox and Hurney do assemble such bad teams then I'd say he's done quite well in performance, he's 10 games over .500 and appeared in two NFC champ games in his tenure; a guy like Del-Rio who you say drafts good has failed due to his teams lack of postseason success; Jeff Fisher brings in some good players too but has had very good teams over the past 4 or 5 years but I'd put him on my list; Gibbs has done nothing since he returned, Marty is unemployed, but for the others (Gruden, Holmgren, Billichek, Dungy, Reid, etc) should be in the top 10
Posted by: Mattdaddy | Oct 23, 2007 2:29:58 PM
"Jags Always draft really well!" Really? They released Leftwich - a #7 overall pick. And how's that Matt Jones experiment working out? Did he dress last night?
And Lovie "Rex is my quarterback" Smith at 3? Please.
Posted by: Rock | Oct 23, 2007 2:39:37 PM
Gibbs?? Cheven Gibbs was great in the 90's but he is not even at .500 this go around. Marty is not even in the league right now so he really cant be in a top 10 list. Lovie Smith has had less success than Fox. And Del Rio they have had worst draft success than the Panthers, Leftwhich, Reggie Williams, Matt Jones, Mercedes Lewis. These are their first round picks what have they done??
Posted by: Billy | Oct 23, 2007 3:12:39 PM
Fox is lucky to have a job! His teams always start slow. He has not won a home game since last year!! They always will drop games they should win. He seems to have problems with personal and identifying who should start. The special teams’ coverage and return units are always at the bottom of the NFL. The defensive coach has no idea how to use his people. And so on and so on…
Posted by: Roger | Oct 23, 2007 4:13:32 PM
Fox is lucky to have a job! His teams always start slow. He has not won a home game since last year!! They always will drop games they should win. He seems to have problems with personal and identifying who should start. The special teams’ coverage and return units are always at the bottom of the NFL. The defensive coach has no idea how to use his people. And so on and so on…
Posted by: Roger | Oct 23, 2007 4:13:56 PM
Cheven, your comments about some of the Panthers decisions are real "head scratchers" but they are not Fox's decisions to make. Much like, the Jags cutting Leftwich was more about the salary cap than performance. (what is up with the Jags not filling the stadium for MNF? Did u see all those empty & tarp covered seats?)
As far as the Panthers future and the rest of the season, its really up to the O-line and not the D-line, especially since the NFL decided to stop calling penalties for holding.(down 50% from last yr) This should mean any QB can destroy a defense, but they have to be very accurate & the D has to disguise blitzes better. If our hi-paid D-line can't get to the QB, we may be cutting them next yr in order to draft some D-linemen and buy some sure handed recievers. Go Panthers! Keep Poundin!
Posted by: stevie wunda | Oct 23, 2007 4:15:31 PM
Can someone name ten current NFL coaches who have had more success than Fox over the last 5 or 6 years??
Posted by: Mattdaddy | Oct 23, 2007 4:29:07 PM
No, Mattdaddy, they can't. The Panthers are ranked in the top 5 in NFL wins since John Fox became the coach in the '02 season.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Oct 23, 2007 4:47:40 PM
Let's be serious, are comparing those coaches by what they have done since they became coach or just because someone like them. Since Fox became coach of carolina can you compare the h-t-h with those grat coaches you are praising? This guy got a 1-15 team with no name, no star and took them to the superbowl 2 years later( with a undrafted QB, a punt returner turned to one of the best receiver of the NFL, draft Pepper,...). And a year later after loosing 15 players to injuries he turned the season around with back up players to win 6 of 8 last games of the season, what else do you guys need for to do, he can't go in the field and play for his players, all he can do is to fix the problems( like call Vinny among a bunch of QB to come and win a game for us. Del Rio? John Grunden? are you kidding me, what have they done since Fox became a coach compare to him. Grunden inherit Dungy team, and brought it down to the last of the NFC
Posted by: yemey | Oct 23, 2007 5:12:05 PM
Pat,
It is funny how you argue that Holgrem is living in the past with Farve and how Del Rio hasn't done munch since being a defensive coordinator for the Panthers, but let's agree on this much... Fox has been living in the past too!
Luckily, there are mindless robot fans here like Tim who will never question Fox and so his job is so secure, that it's a joke.
As far as where Fox ranks, I'd put him in the top 10 but would argue against it too. I think his success is so up and down that you have to.
Posted by: McDouglas | Oct 23, 2007 5:13:46 PM
AHAHAHHAHAA "Jags draft really well"??????? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Both of those 1st round WRs (Reggie Williams and Matt Jones) are riding pine. And who the heck is Marty Scheinhermer?
Also, in most front offices, the GM is the key decision maker on draft picks, so it's hardly a criteria to consider when judging a head football coach. NFL coaches should, and are, judged on wins and losses. Bottom line.
Some of you on this board know what you're talking about. Most of you don't. I put Fox just inside the top 10.
Posted by: Billy | Oct 23, 2007 6:48:01 PM
Have to agree he should have been in the top 10--he didn't get the rating he should have when he took the Panthers and went to the SB--they gave more credit for the jerk last year who took over the Saints and we were far better and went farther than the Saints more times.
NFL hype makes me crazy and I wish they would get a grip on it--Vick the Mannings--what other QB gets the time to master the game as they get--then you have Brady who this year has so much time in the pocket he could play a game of chess instead he is playing catch. Heck with O line who deserves the credit--Ole Belicheat will be #1 coach.
Notice they did no indepth investigation of the cheating. Pay a fine and brush it away.
But these are teams with faithful fans--they don't run and turn and quit and walk out of the game-these are old teams with diehard fans who stick through thick or thin--Panthers don't have that support from its fans. Most don't know much about football here--its just now catching on and getting big. 10 years--there will be a whole new generation and following. Just watch.
Posted by: steve | Oct 23, 2007 10:03:18 PM
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