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November 18, 2007
Panthers shorthanded on punt?
Just got done watching the replay of the infamous pooch punt about a dozen times with a reporter from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. We’ve also had people at WCNC check their video feed numerous times. Unless the Panthers had someone line up way outside (and never come into the screen), it appears they had only 10 men on the field on the play. Again, that’s what the replay indicates. The Panthers are on a flight back to Charlotte tonight and coach John Fox will be asked Monday to clarify what happened on the play.
-- Pat Yasinskas
Posted by Observer Sports on November 18, 2007 at 06:57 PM | Permalink
Comments
Coaching!!
Posted by: mattdaddy | Nov 18, 2007 7:18:03 PM
shouldn't have punted it to begin with. 52 yard punt isn't out of kasay's range. need some biscuits to coach in the NFL.
Posted by: jake | Nov 18, 2007 7:19:36 PM
Even short-handed, you have to "zone" the defensive coverage of a drop-in short punt like that so that you don't overrun the receiver or the area behind the linemen for the returning team.
It was a good idea and nicely executed, but even with 11 men on the field, the Panthers still might have gotten cut off at the pass, so to speak, on that play. So in the future, don't overcharge and try to "occupy the zone" rather than overrun it or get pushed to the outside of the zone.
Posted by: David McKnight | Nov 18, 2007 7:55:09 PM
If you are going to pooch punt it, try angling it so it goes out of bounds....
Posted by: catdawgman | Nov 18, 2007 8:15:31 PM
is it time to give up or what. where's the problem they put up more points with out steve smith then with him but he is the most dangerous weapon. will jarrett be the number 2 next year opposite smith or carter either way colbert or carter one of them have to go.
Posted by: panta4life | Nov 18, 2007 8:17:52 PM
Carter and Colbert will give you about the same thing, a couple nice catches to give us hope, only to follow by a series of drops on 3rd down, if they keep one of them, it may as well be Carter, at least he has some decent speed, unfortunatey for Jarrett, he could catch a cold either, showing why the coaches have kept him off the playing field.
Posted by: mattdaddy | Nov 18, 2007 8:33:27 PM
Whether the Panthers were short a man or not, this was a horrible call. You've got one of the league's best kickers in Kasay, the temp is 44 degrees with virtually no wind and our braintrust decides to pooch kick? This play turned the entire game around. This is not too different from that awful call they made a few years back in Minn. when the Panthers tried to lateral the ball across the field. What the h___ is the matter with our coaches? Very discouraging. Time to clean house and start anew.
Posted by: NY Dave | Nov 18, 2007 9:46:27 PM
Did you also notice the clip and the holding of John Kasey? This should not have been a touchdown due to either penalty. This touchdown set the mood of the rest of the game.
Posted by: Phyl | Nov 18, 2007 10:22:46 PM
Kasey should have aimed for the sideline, maybe it would have went out of bounds. It wouldn't be the first time his kicks have went out of bounds.
Fire the Unspecial Teams Coach, and the entire defensive coaching staff, marty hunley etc.
Posted by: kevin | Nov 18, 2007 10:58:07 PM
Those who knock Fox's coaching ability should heed the A**hole* comentator comments about Fox's ability to see things on the field when Fox challenged to get credit for the fumble caused by Julius Poopers (still calling him poopers cause I know it's a matter of time b4 he goes back to watching the game on the field). Thing is, the commentator was being his usual facecious self, but he couldn't be more right (even though the referee did not give the Panthers the ball after confirming it was in fact a fumble)!!! Once again Fox is not been given due credit!!! That being said, I did post comments during the preseason how the Cats were in for a bad season because Fox lost control of his team... I stand by that, but that's not entirely his fault... There are people above him that make personnel decisions as well FYI! They are the reason he has lost players and players' respect. Unless that changes, than Cowher and/or any other coach brought in will have the same problems.
Posted by: SYRPIS | Nov 19, 2007 1:19:47 AM
Whats up with the refs holding the ball and the call on that pass interference had to review what....I knew that would mess us up the next play and it did.....we have a old team and a team that has to be flowing to make things happen...we were driving down the field and the refs held up on that call next play fumble...crazy, that always happen for teams, either its good or bad...but the refs knew what to do to help the momentum for Farve and the Packers...The league wasnt going to let the Panthers come in a win.... then the call with peppers getting that fumble which Im watching it right now in review good challenge Foxy to show the league how these refs have to get it right...Refs saying they didnt know if Pepers came u with the ball, and then Beason taking his first game off...Hope he's not getting tired or hurt...Get the calls right refs and davidson...Good seeing Deke Cooper in the game, thought he was injuried.....Start Moore!
Posted by: Panther Fan D | Nov 19, 2007 2:35:20 AM
Basic fact, pooched punt is smart because:
The defence does not know you punt so there is no returnman back deep.
So when you have a pooch punt call, AND THERE IS A RETURNMAN BACK DEEP, DO NOT PUNT IT TO HIM. Change the play to a field goal, punt it 25 yards out off bound or into the end zone, even run a kicker keep up the middle. Anything but punting to the returnman.
But with the SP coach failing everything else, I would not be suprised to find out that Kasay/Baker had no option to change the play without calling a time-out...
Posted by: Thorrez | Nov 19, 2007 2:51:13 AM
The ref's were terrible in this game....but you can't blame our lack of play on the ref's. Green Bay out played us...out scored...and was definatly out coached. Whats there to complain about? Everyone should of known this would happen. The panthers played without heart...the want to win...thats obvious bc of the lack of concentration (Int's, dropped passes, tackles, etc). Also I keep hearing people say "Well if Jake was here.." blah blah blah...idk if anyone remembers last season..anyone....no? Im surprised...I admit he's better than what we have but he's not a Manning or anything...guys just as slow as Vinny. I wish they would have gotten Aaron Brooks instead..atleast he can throw some and is more mobil...but hey what do the fans know...apparently nothing bc the team doesnt care to listen to the fans. The way it's sitting right now is...we're not going to make playoff's...unless Tampa just blows up. Play Matt Moore and see what the kid's got. Whats the worst that could happen...we lose the rest of the season? Good....we get first draft picks...so we can pick up a new QB or another reciever...i cant even start on how much im tired of Colbert. My list of things we need are as follow...
Coaching
-new head coach. Fox isn't working anymore..quite frankly I and im sure the fans are fed up with it. Jerry Richardson..if you can't see this..you shouldn't own a team.
-new D coordinator. Trgovac calls some of the dumbest calls ive ever seen...he needs to go.
-new reciever coach. Apparently Richard Williamson isn't doing his job bc if he is then why do we have some of the worst recievers. We got Smith...he's useless if people double him bc they know its all we have.
-new special teams coach. Danny Crossman....HAHAHAHAHA....nice special teams on that little (fagish punt) you tried to pull out of your @$$.
-secondary coach. Mike Gillhamer...seriously....deep passes...8 yards per catch....wheres our coverage? Im so sick of the scheme Carolina has with their coverage of teaching to let them catch then make the hard hit trying to cause a turnover. How about...cover them and have a chance of an int...an incompletion...or atleast they make a good catch but u can walk away saying you were atleast there and tried instead of looking stupid and gave up a 40 yard pass.
2008 Draft
-QB. Delhomme is ok...but he isn't the answer people. We need to get some fresh new talent. If nothing else someone good to back up Delhomme. Carr isn't working. Testaverde probably wont be back. We have Moore, but they won't give the kid a shot.
-HB. Carolina likes the draw thats apparent. Thats not going to work with elusive and scatbacks like Foster and Williams. We need a power back like Davis was. Thats the only way were pulling out up the middle runs effectively.
-Recievers. We have smith...but he doesn't matter if hes doubled and we have no other recievers to throw to. If you say Carter i better not know where you live. So he had one good game..wowww...he and Colbert drop so many passes its no longer even acceptable every now and then. Jarret was supposed to come in but with lack of effort at the reciever coaching position...he's apparently not helping the kid learn much.
-better O-linemen. its simple..lines make offenses. Without protection...productivity isn't going to happen.
-something on special teams. Need I explain?
Im most upset with the Panthers coaches more than the players. We do have some talent on this team but yet coaches are either not doing their job by helping them further learn to be effective or their not playing the right person in general. Like next year...i gurantee they will start Morgan and MLB...why...he cant stay healthy..Beason deserves it. Coaches aren't doing their jobs....and its obviously showing.
Im still going to pull for Carolina bc im a Panthers fan at heart..their my team and always will be. But if Jerry Richardson wants to show he truely cares about the fans, he needs to get rid of Fox atleast and bring in a more determined, aggresive head coach. Not one that claps and chews gum when we screw up all the time. That just makes players think, well it wasn't that bad i guess if he's happy. Also...create a "home" atmosphere. BOA stadium is a huge billboard....We came to watch football...only football...pump us up....get us excited...im tired of this right here (in calm voice) "touchdown panthers" (In enthusiastic voice right after touchdown) "HEY FANS HOLD UP YOUR CARDS" we don'ttttttttttt careeeeee!!!!
Until Fox is gone, this is not a team. This is just men in uniforms to make it an even 16 teams in each division.
Posted by: Dustin | Nov 19, 2007 3:13:12 AM
Can someone explain that Fumble that Julius caused which the refs reviewed it and said there was a fumble but they couldnt see who recovered it when Peps was the only one around the ball and who actually walked away with the ball??
Posted by: Mattdaddy | Nov 19, 2007 7:52:10 AM
Most interesting stat in the game, the Packers are the youngest team in the NFL, with an average age of 26.5. Obviously, they have made some good personnel moves and developed those players. But,think back a year or two, the process to get there was painful. Remember how bad they were? Point is, you can toss it all out and start over, but the short term will most likely be painful. What we seem to do is draft players, but never develop them. Only the guys who are good enough to crack the starting lineup (or do it due to injury) on day one seem to play. I really don't know - do we have those 2 to 4 year players we have brought along that now start? Taking raw talent and developing it seems to be a key to consistency, and I can't think of players that we bring in and bring along that become impact players. I could be wrong, so before someone who is a stat whore does a thesis to disprove this thought, it is just a feeling. However, the Packers are a young team, and they whipped out butts bad. The game was not as close as the score. Note to coaching staff, I loved that clock killing drive in the third quarter. Good result, but strategically, was that really the best use of time? How about that Packer 5 wide receiver set that caused us to call a timeout on defense? That means we have never thought of doing that ourselves. NO lost, Bucs won. Slipping away fast, you better put in Moore, run a lot of receivers and fill the air with footballs or you may not win another game this year. So, we could have the kind of year Green Bay had when they were putting all those young players on the field to develop them, except that we aren't doing that. Developing the young talent will be the only thing you can get out of this season, so if you don't even do that, what have you accomplished?
Posted by: Willy | Nov 19, 2007 9:41:23 AM
Special teams coach - a pooch punt is still a punt and you better have your field goal team COACHED to still run and cover. The Packers stated post game they knew it was coming, they were ready to return it but we weren't ready to cover it. Look at the replay again, guys literally trotting downfield, then literally trotting when they thought the return man was going down. Watch Jason Kyle get knocked clean off the field by a Packer that came to play. Nice long snap on the punt, but again, it is a punt, so you better be ready to tackle somebody. Pitiful coaching job there - we were not ready for even the possibility of a return.
Posted by: Willy | Nov 19, 2007 10:01:26 AM
The whole league is talking about the Patriots these days and how good of a job they did bringing in players. Just imagine if the Panthers had done that during the off season. W. Welker went to NE for a 2nd rd pick and a 7th rd pick. Hmm D. Jarrett or Welker and Welker solves the punt return problems, which then would have freed up the 4th rd pick we wasted on Robinson. All of this starts from the top and works it's way down. The GM, time to move him out. Fox, has been great in the past, but this is two disapointing seasons in a row, and after his wasted challenge yesterday, he is showing, that he doesn't have what it takes anymore. And our Def Cord, probably pulls his def schemes out of a cracker jack box. HORRIBLE!
Posted by: Chris | Nov 19, 2007 10:34:04 AM
But they had injuries at QB. Every team has injuries and you must plan accordingly. But the Panthers seem to be very quick to put players on IR. Basenez, got a boo boo in preseason, and they put him on IR to free up a roster spot. They do the same thing with their former TE, Gaines. Who btw is starting in Buff. So if Gaines was too injured to play for Car and they put him on IR and then cut him, how can he be playing for Buff now? Note: Gaines is just an example, we don't need him, but it brings into question how hurt was Basenez? Again this brings more questions about the GM and the rest of the coaching staff. Well time to start figuring out which top 10 player we want in next year's draft
Posted by: Chris | Nov 19, 2007 10:39:48 AM
This game was a tale of two halves...the first half the refs clearly called the game in Green Bays favor and Green Bay won 21-3. Green Bay had to play by the rules in the 2nd half and Panthers won 14-10.
Pat Yasinskas says he watched this "pooch punt" play "numerous times" and you didn't notice John Kasay being held with two hands??? If they are holding Kasay, who else might they've been holding and got away with it? Holding is against the rules and that play should have come back.
Fox had to challenge Pepper's sack to get that fumble, and the refs still wouldn't give us the ball after Peppers recovered. Peppers was also getting held on that play (look at the replay...hopefully you have DVR, its great).
Green Bay's db's were not playing the ball on passes either. They were bumping our recievers and not tracking the football. That is pass interference and wasn't called several times until 2nd half. The one time the refs did call this (when the green bay dude bumped Kolbert out of bounds), they reviewed the play to try and penalize Kolbert for being the first to touch football after re-entering playing field (which he didn't). The refs reluctantly got that call correct, because the green bay db's were clearly not playing by the rules.
Why don't Yasinskas write about this?
Posted by: Hooover45 | Nov 19, 2007 12:25:22 PM
it is obvious with not only this play, but others as well, that we do not play to win. we play scared. kasay isn't having his best year but passing on a chance to put points on the board is a "pussy" call. our staff needs to grow some nuts and go out and win a game.
Posted by: riddle | Nov 19, 2007 1:02:09 PM
More great coaching and special teams play from Fox and staff. Looks like he just wants to get fired with stupid plays like this.
Posted by: Ben | Nov 19, 2007 1:11:57 PM
1. Fire Marty Hurney
2. Fire Don Gregory, Director of College Scouting
3.Fire Mark Koncz, Director of Pro Scouting
4. Fire Donnie Shell, Director of Player Development
5. Fire Jim Skipper, Asst Head Coach
6. Fire Jeff Davidson, O Coord.
7. Fire Danny Crossman, Special Teams Coach
8. Fire Dave Magazu, O Line Coach
9. Fire Richard Williamson, Recievers Coach
10. And its time for Jerry to find a real team president and have his little boy Marky clean the restrooms.
Posted by: annoyed fan | Nov 19, 2007 2:37:06 PM
Pack it in for next year people. This train has come to an end. I will not sit here and point out one games worth of problems. This is a cancer and it's spreading. I hate to give up on my team like this. But they are giving up too. Poor coaching, no motivation, shitty running, poor blocking, 2 yard passes, etc.....
The worst thing I thought I would ever say is, can we have Jake back!!!!!?????? God knows that hurt to say. It's all we got I guess. I watch the games with a blank stare. I don't even get excited to watch the games anymore. I HOPE YOU HEAR THAT PANTHERS!!!!!! I have resorted to watching other games. Because our games are lame as hell. It's like watching the Detroit Lions 3 years ago. F**KING LAME!!
Enjoy your season I'm out.
Posted by: Adam | Nov 19, 2007 2:57:04 PM
Adam, no one cares if you watch the games. You are probably one of those people that tell me to sit down at the games.
Posted by: Hooover45 | Nov 19, 2007 4:57:50 PM
http://store.mozilla.org/product.php?code=MZ14015&catid=11
Nothing else left to say!!!!!!!
Posted by: Cat's Fan | Nov 20, 2007 3:32:12 PM
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