« Panthers' report card following Jaguars rout | Main | Why not start DeAngelo Williams? »
December 10, 2007
Vick's dogs didn't get a plea deal
Just curious; what do you guys (and gals) think of Michael Vick's 23-month prison sentence?
I know it was within federal guidelines and all that, but it kind of bothered me that the feds let Vick enter a plea. If his partners in crime hadn't flipped on him and opted for plea-bargains of their own, I'm still convinced that Vick would be telling the whole world he had nothing to do with it, and that his legions of fans would believe it. The only reason he admitted guilt was that the rest of his buddies beat him to it in their scramble for deals.
With time off for good behavior, Vick could be out in the summer of 2009, setting himself up to return to football. I don't know how badly his skills will have eroded after two seasons out of the game, but he'll still be just 29. I do know that some teams will be interested.
Will the commish let him come back?
Yep. We all know how these things work; all Vick has to do is not get into any more trouble while in prison and continue to say all the right things about how he has learned his lesson. That's tough for me to swallow, but I've got a dog, and I think that figures into my opinion. I know people deserve second chances, but the dogs he killed never got them.-- Stan Olson
-- Story: Fallen star pays for his elusiveness
-- Poll: Would you accept Mike Vick as a Panther after his prison release?
Posted by Observer Sports on December 10, 2007 at 05:35 PM | Permalink
Comments
I'm all about giving people second chances. I believe that people can change. That being said, I don't think Goodall would let Vick back in the league unless Vick can prove that he has learned from his situation and has definitively changed. I have been watching Vick since he was at VT and to be honest I have never seen him learn from anything. Vick makes mistakes and then repeats them. It would be a great story if Vick could turn his life around and come back to the NFL, but don't hold your breath. He's got to prove that he can actually turn his life around first.
Posted by: Matt West | Dec 10, 2007 6:17:18 PM
Everyone deserves the chance once the court-ordered debt is paid, however the commissioner should give him a one strike policy, as well as make Vick give 25% of all of his earnings to charities that care for dogs, and make him spend time working at them every off-season. You can dock his pay, but he needs to spend time with these defenseless animals. In addition, he needs to have to talk to kids about why what he did was so wrong, how they need to actually get an education and become productive. My guess is he will screw up again within a year. The PR nightmare of any team that picks him up would be immense, but racist Atlanta would still be his best fit, because there, the color of your skin still counts for much more than the content of your character. I believe I have the experience to make that statement that most of you don't have - the behavior of fans to support him while this was going on was just and embarrassment to all the accomplishments made in the last 50 years. This whole gangster mentality has set the status as role model that a kid should follow in lieu of the one he does follow back to its low point. Young men from the "disadvantaged" areas of town are much more likely to know who the latest rapper or sports thug is instead of the President, Governor, mayor, teachers, preachers and other truly accomplished individuals.
So, Vick should come back, and if by some miracle he can fly right, he will be even more of an inspiration to kids that desperately need proper role models. Do I believe it is within him? No.
Posted by: Willy | Dec 10, 2007 6:36:11 PM
I can't stand him and love the fact that he will be rotting in a jail cell for a while. Wish his cell could be the size of the kennels he stuck the dogs in though. I hope he goes to a real prison and not some white collar place either.
Never liked his attitude when he was at Tech and his brother Marcus is just as bad. Bet his mother was crying because her meal ticket got cut off and not cause he was sentenced to 23 months!
Posted by: Lynn | Dec 10, 2007 6:41:33 PM
I'm just glad Vick got what he deserved for his cruel and heinous acts. No football player should get a break because of his football popularity. What Vick did made me sick. How could he kill dogs? He deserves time in prison.
Posted by: O.J. Simpson | Dec 10, 2007 6:46:03 PM
I remember vicks's first year when everyone in ATL wanted him to go ahead and start. There was a Fox broadcas Falcons home game and QB chris chandler went down and was laying injured on the field. In the player's wives' section, Vick's mom and relatives started cheering "oohh my boy is gonna start!!". Chandler's wife understandably took exception to that cruelty and selfishness and there was an alercation.
So whe I heard vick's mom was crying uncontrollably today in the court room, all I could think was "karma's a bitch, ain't it?"
Posted by: 309-18-1-2 | Dec 10, 2007 6:51:50 PM
It's good to see so many people who are in favor of him actually getting punished. It seems there are still a lot of people who consider these dogs 'just animals'. Well, true, they are. But technically, so are we. Just because something is classified as an 'animal' does not make it any less worthy of humane treatment. To me, the fact that any living creature could do such horrible things to another is sickning. Whether it's person to person or person to dog does not matter. It shows clear disregard for life, of any kind, and for compassion.
Someone who would be so vicious does not deserve wealth, or fame, or anything of the sort. And like the gentleman above said, is no role model. And does not deserve to be in a position of one.
Posted by: Jessica | Dec 10, 2007 6:59:38 PM
As usual comments are published by those who have personal biases or harbor some form of bigotry. Mike Vick committed a crime and is going to jail so just let it go. Why do you need to talk about his mother or brother or any person that hasn't been convicted of this crime. The media isn't talking about Jim Black like this, losing sleep and he was an elected offical. Somebody that you put your trust in. Maybe is mother or wife is sad becuase they can't steal any more money from stupid people like you. Mike Vick is a product of his environment what's your excuse Lynn? His fall from grace isn't unlike many others in our society as there are far worse crimes being committed like the lady who set a hosue on fire with her kids in it. Matbe she was a product of the local trailer park and didn't know any better or maybe she was a crazy person who made a terrible decision. It seems that we hate Mike Vick for his talent and his ability to play a game that in the real world has little relevance to the issues that we face as a country (war, a sagging economy and homelessness). And just think you probably voted for George W. Bush!
Posted by: Anthony | Dec 10, 2007 7:03:48 PM
The punishment was to harsh. He should have received no more than 6 months probation. Geez, we're talking about dogs. An animal people in some parts of the world consider as food. Hey Stan where was your outrage when the Auburn football player was attacked and bitten on national tv by a police dog? Hmm,just like I thought. Get your ptiorities in order.
Posted by: Aggie Decks | Dec 10, 2007 7:15:08 PM
I have a few things to say about this. First, Vick only got a few more months than his "friends" who provided the govt. with the information necessary to prosecute Vick. I think that there should've been a greater disparity in the sentencing for their cooperation. Whether that means his friends get a shorter sentence or Vick gets a longer sentence, I don't know. Next, does 23 months behind bars fit the crime? Once again, I don't know, I think he probably should've received more time BUT in relation to other crimes, I think that he will spend too much time in jail. I don't have official statistics but I know people who have gotten their ass beat down and the people responsible don't get time like Vick got. The penal system just doesn't get enough funding to properly hold criminals accountable. That brings me to Anthony's comments. Why would a local politician like Jim Black get the notoriety that Vick has? Vick committed VIOLENT CRIMES - PLURAL!! Also, something tells me that J Black (sentenced to 63 months BTW, not 23) doesn't carry the same clout with impressionable kids that Mike Vick does. Vick's fame allows the justice system to let everyone else know how wrong the crime is and bring attention to the widespread problem. Another thing, why is Vick involving himself in behavior like this? He had the world in his hands, he certainly didn't need the money. Do I think race plays a part in some of these peoples comments? Most likely and that in itself is really sad but if it was found out that Steve Young did these same acts, there would be just as much outrage if not more because (as a result of the nation's latent racism) people probably don't expect something like this to come from a white athlete. Next, did anyone say that what Vick did is worse that piece of trash mom did in Concord? I don't know anyone that could justify that. Personally, I don't care if Vick or the mom were products of their environments. Everyone has an excuse but certain things are completely unacceptable and torturing dogs because of their inability to fight and locking your kids in a house then burning it down are completely unacceptable. It's a shame that not everyone starts on a level playing field but at some point you have to be accountable for your actions and people must recognize that wrong is wrong, regardless of who his the wrongdoer. The reason more people talk about Vick is because his Vick is compelling. Man, I can go on forever about this and I'm already half way there so I'll bring it to an end. In relation to other crimes, Vick will in all likelihood have spent too much time in jail in relation to other crimes but that points to our failure as a country to our level of commitment in law enforcement/crime prevention. Also that Vick was even involved in behavior like this is indicative of a greater problem in society. FYI, I voted for Kerry.
Posted by: Chris | Dec 10, 2007 7:47:02 PM
In my opinion, that breed of dog should not be allowed as a pet. That's a vicious animal that should be labeled as such and banned in households. The only purpose I see for such an animal is in law enforcement. The rest should be put down. How many more stories do we want to hear of Pit Bulls mauling someone to death, especially a child?
Posted by: Andy | Dec 10, 2007 8:19:11 PM
I think Vick should have gotten alot more time. When this first broke he lied. Vick said he didn't have anything to do with dogfighting. Then his buddies turned on him. He admitted guilt but not once have I heard him say he was sorry about taking innocent creatures lives.
A product of his environment???? Gimme a break! That is nothing but an excuse! And society today has alot of excuses for abhorable behavior. Vick needs to suck it up and take TOTAL responsibility for his actions. So do others that commit crimes.
An animal is a defenseless living being. They depend on humans for their life. And what do they give in return? UNCONDITIONAL love.
I am an owner of a Pitbull. She is the most loving of all of my dogs. My chihuahua will bite you before my pittie would even think about it. Pitbulls are NOT a bad breed. It's what humans have done to them.
Punish the person who does the bad deed, not the breed.
Posted by: Kat Thomas | Dec 10, 2007 8:55:13 PM
I thought that Vick should have got 40 month prison sentence.For killing dogs. and acting like it not a big deal send the wrong message to all the young kids who sow Vick as role model.As far playing in the NFL again i don't believe that will see Vick in the NFL again .It will be to much of risk for a team to take.And please even if the panthers will have a QB problem like they do this year what ever they do don't for sec think of signing Vick
Posted by: John young | Dec 10, 2007 9:12:31 PM
Michael and his brother Marcus Vick will not ever play football again. They both have something in common: brothers, corrupt, criminals, not playing in the NFL and troublemakers.
Posted by: DST | Dec 10, 2007 9:17:04 PM
Let's face it. Vick and his family are bad people. If he had never played football, he'd have been in prison anyway. Money and opportunity don't change bad people. Environment has very little to do with it.
Posted by: Authority on Everything | Dec 11, 2007 5:37:59 AM
WOW! Michael Vick gets two years for killing dogs and Steve Smith serves no time for beating a teammate beyond recognition. Ah...I get it...Smitty is or was making The Richardsons money by putting fannies in the stands. I never have understood the forgiveness Mr. Smith has received in this community. His attack was brutal and unprovoked. Somehow he has managed to become a saint in this town. I think it is a product of what he has done for the team. It is disgusting. But his days are numbered. He has another violent outbreak in is future.
Posted by: Buster | Dec 11, 2007 5:45:42 AM
Vick got his time. Only in America would a dog's life mean more than the livelihood of black people. We kill animals for sport all the time. What are all the balls we play our games with made out of? And yes, those same animal rights groups who blew up Vick's case have lobbied all pro sports to stop slaughtering animals, for sport, to make balls and guess what...they had NO credibility.
Posted by: Andre | Dec 11, 2007 5:48:44 AM
I am a moron dont listen to me... i dont know the difference between legal stuff and nonlegal stuff....
dogfightinh is illegal i guess.. killing animals like cows and pigs for food, then using the skins for footballs/basketballs is not illegal
Posted by: Andre | Dec 11, 2007 5:55:12 AM
possibly Vick also flipped on people even higher up in the org. than him. If thats the case, its understandable why they gave him a plea.
Posted by: funnyguy | Dec 11, 2007 6:27:53 AM
Arthur Blank should fire every Falcon that participated in any "Free Michael Vick" stuff in the game last night, like the idiot that scored a TD in the Falcons listless loss then held up his jersey to reveal Free Mike Vick on his tee shirt. His stupid supporters should stop playing the race card, and look at what he actually did. He violated the statutes against organized crime, was the head and funder of a crime family that participated in illegal, organized activity across state lines. You want to compare sentences, compare what Vick got to what Italian Americans received for being part of the mafia. I don't know what prison he is going to, but I imagine some big, sweaty redneck can't wait to give him a "prison howdy". Racist Atlanta and anyone that supports him and can turn a blind eye to his funding of organized crime are simply examples of how people hold themselves down by blaming all their problems on someone else. They have swallowed the pablum dispensed by those whose main desire is to remain in elected office by created an entire class of government-assistance people that will groupthink any way they are told, as long as the check keeps coming. The whole Vick situation is a reflection of the low tide point that Bill Cosby and Alvin Poussant speak of.
All that said, I still believe that if Vick serves the punishment given by the court system, he should be given a chance for a fresh start, but not with any naive ideas of letting his actions go unverified. A long probation period with only one chance for an error should be part of the package.
Posted by: Willy | Dec 11, 2007 9:20:32 AM
This is the biggest bunch of nonsense. Vick had to go to jail because of someone else's opinion. I never thought of dogs as in the house pets until I went to college and saw kids with them in their apartments. I seen them licking the dogs in the mouth. I could not believe that sh*t. A incompetent team of lawyers, PETA, race, and his athletic ability got Vick into this. His lawyers were terrible. Attack those punks' on the stand. What do they do for a living? PETA is complete hypocrisy. Unless all of those people are vegetarians, which they are not, they have nothing to say. Black people just plain don't feel about dogs the same as white people. Vick is one of three black athletic quarterbacks who has been allowed to play quarterback. Then he became popular with endorsements. When I went to China we ate dog. Hundreds of greyhounds are killed every year by rich people after dog races. Who cares right? This country will always find a way to keep a double standard.
Posted by: Norecross | Dec 11, 2007 10:40:09 AM
The key issue for the NFL on considering the return of Michael Vick is the infraction of league rules which has nothing to do with the Federal, and later State laws. This involves the aiding and abetting of gambling. The running of a gambling endeavor and providing funds for a gambling establishment, to which Vick has admitted, is a clear and unquestionable contravention of the NFL rule for all members of an NFL organization, including players and all others of every franchise, staff and league office. This is the behavior for which the commissioner will have to act, or the rule against involvement in betting and gambling will become useless. I anticipate that the Commissioner will levy a year or two of suspension, with probation following. This is similar to the Paul Hornung and Alex Karres situation in the 1960's. They were star players who were suspended for their gambling behaviors and spent the 1963 season in the stands rather than on the field. This is the hammer the commissioner can withhold until necessary and after all other legal requirements are completed
Posted by: tarhoosier | Dec 11, 2007 10:43:27 AM
The key issue for the NFL on considering the return of Michael Vick is the infraction of league rules which has nothing to do with the Federal, and later State laws. This involves the aiding and abetting of gambling. The running of a gambling endeavor and providing funds for a gambling establishment, to which Vick has admitted, is a clear and unquestionable contravention of the NFL rule for all members of an NFL organization, including players and all others of every franchise, staff and league office. This is the behavior for which the commissioner will have to act, or the rule against involvement in betting and gambling will become useless. I anticipate that the Commissioner will levy a year or two of suspension, with probation following. This is similar to the Paul Hornung and Alex Karres situation in the 1960's. They were star players who were suspended for their gambling behaviors and spent the 1963 season in the stands rather than on the field. This is the hammer the commissioner can withhold until necessary and after all other legal requirements are completed
Posted by: tarhoosier | Dec 11, 2007 10:44:54 AM
Norecross, thanks for proving my point.
Posted by: Willy | Dec 11, 2007 10:53:02 AM
Vick applies for reinstatement to play in the NFL. Goddell denies him and then Al Sharpton shows up and protest and then NFL allows him back. The Raiders pick him up for a couple of years. Then he retires and after a couple of years he is charged with burglary and robbery for his supposedly stolen merchandise. He then ends up back in prison with OJ as a cellmate. Just my opinion.
Posted by: biggdad | Dec 11, 2007 11:27:27 AM
I never thought I’d live to see the day that killing a dog would bring much greater penalty than killing a person.
Michael Vick does something admittedly bad, but that pales in comparison to taking a human life.
Since Vick is a football player, let’s use this example.
Leonard Little has had at least 2 run-ins with the law. Back in 1998, he ran a red light and slammed into another vehicle while drunk (nearly twice the legal limit) and killed a St. Louis mom. He pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter and spent 90 nights in jail – with daytime work release so he could continue practicing with the team. He also got four years of probation.
The boy left motherless said 5 years later that he had never received an apology from Little or from his team, the Rams.
This personal revelation came out in 2003 when Little was arrested again for drunk driving and speeding. He failed three field sobriety tests and admitted to drinking.
The NFL only suspended Little for half a season for the manslaughter charge, and sportswriter Jon Saraceno was calling for a permanent ban after the second arrest.
Yet in 2005 the player received only two months probation for speeding and was completely acquitted on the DUI charge despite all the evidence.
[Bizarrely, the judge mandated that Little could not drink alcohol for his two years of probation. Umm, if he was acquitted on alcohol charges then how can you say anything about his drinking???]
Because of his previous drunk driving arrest, Little was supposed to be serving a 4-year sentence, but the defense said the officers didn’t give the sobriety test exactly the right way, so he got off on a technicality.
And even though it was his second arrest and second time found guilty of some charge, the NFL didn’t suspend him at all.
Oh, and in between the two arrests, he signed a five-year, $17.6 million contract.
And let’s not forget that Ray Lewis and his entourage killed two men in Atlanta back in 2000. He lied to police about what happened when his posse killed the guys and he helped them get away in his limo.
He was facing a huge sentence for being an accessory to murder, but only ended up pleading guilty to obstruction of justice and was never suspended by the league at all. He continues to make millions a years and got his likeness on Madden 2005.
Adam “Pac Man” Jones instigates a strip club brawl and has a friend fire off bullets, striking three people, and just this week he gets probation. By the way, this was Pac Man’s sixth arrest in 2 ½ years, and still he only got a one-year NFL suspension.
In summary, Leonard Little gets work release and a total of 8 games of suspension. Ray Lewis no time or suspension at all. Jamal Lewis (arrest for drug trafficking and a few months in jail) gets only 4 games’ suspension.
Michael Vick organizes dogfighting matches and gets an indefinite suspension. Between the loss of his NFL contract, his endorsement deals and his signing bonuses that have to be paid back to the team, Michael Vick will now be forced into bankruptcy, while Leonard Little, Ray Lewis and friends continue to make hundreds of thousands of dollars every Sunday.
It’s too bad PETA doesn’t care about soccer moms.
Posted by: Air Borden | Dec 11, 2007 11:28:59 AM
Hey norcross he broke the law and admitted to it.
Posted by: BDUB | Dec 11, 2007 11:50:53 AM
AirBorden, I don't argue that those you mention got off light, but just because they did is not reason to make the the relative measurement point for Mikey Vick that low. They had their day in court, received their verdict, and that is that. That's the way it works. Ray Lewis' "posse" (I hate that term) didn't testify against him either, a key component of this case. Mike Vick could have been prosecuted with the full weight of organized crime charges, but wasn't, so I think the prosecutors actually let him off light just to get an admission of guilt and take no chance of having another OJ type verdict after a lengthy trial. All the people you mention should have served jail time. Also, the new commissioner is trying to prevent the NFL from suffering the same declines that the NBA did as it sank into images that separated itself from the people who actually pay to see the games. So, he is taking a tougher stance. Smart idea, if the players completely lose touch with the fans - the ones that spend money in the stadiums not the ones that just watch on tv - they will see their ratings fall - and the main money that fuels the entire machine, advertising, will disappear.
Posted by: Willy | Dec 11, 2007 12:00:31 PM
He should have hired OJ Simpson's lawyers, He butchered 2 people and got away with it, I guess it shows it has really gone to a dog eat dog world.
Posted by: nfckats | Dec 11, 2007 12:36:06 PM
The reason most people love dogs is that they are similar to humans in their behavior. That is the key difference between domestic animals and dogs. I don't really have a problem with the dogs fighting, just when you seek joy in seeing dogs suffer a cruel death when they don't seek expections is when you have problems. The style in which Vick killed the dogs is just sick. Anybody who does that sort of deed needs to be locked up for a long time.
Posted by: joe | Dec 11, 2007 2:27:56 PM
I just hope if the Panthers fired John Fox they get the Patriots OC and astGM for Gm of the Panthers before it be to late
Posted by: TELLING IT LIKE IT IS | Dec 11, 2007 5:31:10 PM
I wish people would stop trying to make this about race. Micheal Vick's actions, not his race, make him trash! If he was Hispanic, Jewish, white, or Asian instead of black he would still be trash!! Race did not cause Micheal Vick to be trash, Micheal Vick's actions cause him to be trash!! Conversely, Vick being trash does not mean that all black people or trash. It just means Vick is trash.
Oh, and his brother, he's trash too.
Posted by: Ranoldo Mendez | Dec 11, 2007 6:27:13 PM
I hope all Panthers fan can appreciate the fact that I stepped aside a little early to give the Falcons the inside track on all the possible coaches out there....including Cowher...
Posted by: Bobby Petrino | Dec 11, 2007 8:01:24 PM
Just a few thoughts:
(1) If you're a high profile celebrity, athlete, or elected official, and your "friends" do not try to protect you from participating in illegal activities - drugs, prostitution, dog fighting, etc - those "friends" need to be cut off - quickly. Other wise they will roll on you if the Feds got something on you.
(2) In America, you can be a high profile superstar, videotape yourself having sex with a MINOR, lie about it, then go sell platinum albums, and tour around the country - and not go to trial for 7+ years. But...if you're a high profile celebrity, then bet on and fund dogfights, and you kill a few dogs, and lie about it all before telling the truth - your a** will go from charges to sentencing within 9 months.
(3) Or...kill animals on your property - Go to jail. Blow a guy's guts out and kill him - NJ Nets Jayson Williams - no indictment.
(4) More value is placed on a dog's life than human life in this country.
(5) Everyone deserves a second chance and I pray that he will be able to take this time to focus on becoming a better person first - everything else is secondary.
Posted by: Jay W. | Dec 12, 2007 4:00:00 AM
What really pisses me off is when a celeb like R. Kelly is charged with over 20 counts of child related porn and gets his trials delayed for over 2 years now and is still making millions and yet Vick is charge, convicted, and sentenced in such a short period of time.
Posted by: funnyguy | Dec 12, 2007 4:17:37 AM
People are more concerned with Vick and his dog fighting since rots and pits were specfically bred to fight in a sport that is thousands of yrs old and noone complains about the SC Fighting Gamecocks do they?
Yea lets worry about making sure Vick gets the death sentence for a few dogs while lying murdering who picks his fights well Bush who shirked his Nam duties and even went AWOL in the NG and his AIPAC can wipe out millions of civilians 3rd world beaten down nations while destroying whole cities all so Israel can have protection. Who really believes only 3000 US military have died while 60,000 have been wounded? Does anybody believe a word that comes out of Bushs mouth anymore if they ever did? We know Daddy rigged it all so the Bush Crime Family could be the new royal family. Too bad that wont happen now after this idiot Dubya.
Dogs vs people? Dogs win and people lose. Gee, priorities been displaced? We know a lot of Vick haters are really nothing but discreet racists while they pull for Bush to wipe out more millions of Arabs with their neocon troublemakers.
Posted by: Bill Henry | Dec 12, 2007 4:41:53 AM
Is Bill Henry the alias for Cindy Sheehan?
Posted by: funnyguy | Dec 12, 2007 5:11:52 AM
You forget that Michael Vick reached a plea deal, he gave up his right to a trial, so please stop spouting that ignorance about how fast he was convicted. He wasn't convicted, he admitted guilt to avoid a trial. Why? Because he would have been tried for what this really was - it wasn't for killing dogs you idiot, it was for being the head of an organized crime family. Really, some of you are just plain stupid.
Posted by: Willy | Dec 12, 2007 7:02:04 AM
It is funny that more emphasis is placed on a k-nine's life than a humans.
As for that organized crime nonsense that Willy keeps trying to elaborate on; lets be for real. Italian organized crime is so taboo in this country they make television shows about it.
Young black men identify with fighting dogs more than anyone could imagine. They live in close quarters(project housing). They have very little chance of escape i.e. poor schools, teachers, and welfare. Just like dogs, they have no clue how to combat these situations. It is so far above their heads. They even have suspect feeding times(severe poverty). In the process of surviving, they become angry and hostile. They become perfect killing machines. What do they care about dogs? They do not even care about human life and neither does the judicial system. These kids do not know how to pay off officials and bribe police. This is not on the same level as organized crime you imbecile!
Willy, please get off of your pseudo intellectual soap box. Stop listening to cartoonists and sitcom dads. I don't know if you know this, but all black people do not live like the Cosbys.
Do not try to have a battle of wits with me because obviously you are unarmed!!!
Posted by: norecross | Dec 12, 2007 7:11:58 AM
So living in projects and/or poor urban environments where the youth have few options is a justification for torturing, fighting, starving, and electo-shocking animals?
can we say "LIBERAL"
Posted by: funnyguy | Dec 12, 2007 7:38:28 AM
And no, organized crime such as the mafia, where they do have the cash and influence to avoid prosecution, is far different from any dogfighting organization.
However, making excuses for these individuals based on their environment is very short-sighted. The situation you described can be applied to millions of blacks and whites while only a small percentage of that appears to be involved in killing animals. That is way too small of a percentage for your cause and effect argument. If your argument were true, then all or most underpriviledged youths would be fighting dogs. Please stop trying to find excuses and justifications for this behavior.
Posted by: funnyguy | Dec 12, 2007 7:50:15 AM
So Vick's actions are justified by the fact that he was raised like a dog?
How screwed up is the logic in THAT argument?
Posted by: T. | Dec 12, 2007 8:51:03 AM
Norecross, it is attitudes like yours that perpetuate the idea that one cannot rise above their environment. Why, then, I can justify kids growing up in backwoods places where all their relatives are in the Klan being in the Klan themselves, and it is not their fault about the choices they make. Michael Vick has been out of the ghetto for some time now, so his choices are OK because he was once there? You just go on living life blaming everyone else for your failures, and thinking it is ok for everyone else, but only young black males according to you, to do the same. Perhaps you should go read Mike Vick's own comments about what he did. A person like you is so limited in their thinking that a battle of wits would be an oxymoron (just a hint, that's not a detergent). So, go take your perfect killing machine self to lunch, eat a few dogs as you say you did in China - hell go kill a cougar with your bare hands you angry, repressed killing machine you. Seriously, for you to even try to justify Michael Vick's behavior based on his upbringing says all anyone needs to know about the value of your opinions.
Posted by: Willy | Dec 12, 2007 9:13:07 AM
Norcross, find me the man who forced Vick to fight dogs and keep associating with criminals and all of us will concede that your argument is true.
Until you find that man, its safe to say that Vick has FREE WILL.
Posted by: funnyguy | Dec 12, 2007 9:23:51 AM
Norecross, from reading all of these posts it's painfully obvious that you are the "unarmed" person trying to fight a battle of wits!
Seriously, Michael Vick grew up a poor black guy, so he hurts dogs? That is horrible logic. Horrible. To blame Vick's actions on his childhood is ridiculous. According to your logic, all people who grew up in a poor, urban culture do horrible things.
Do you not realize that you are trying to justify Vick's actions by condemning all poor people to a life of crime?
Michael Vick is trash. Trash is the same no matter where it "grows-up". At least he had the balls to own-up to his own actions by accepting a plea agreement. I guess you don't have the balls to admit that what Vick did was absolutely horrible.
Posted by: Ronaldo Mendez | Dec 12, 2007 1:31:49 PM
norecross must be the new Procton!!
Moron.
Posted by: steve | Dec 12, 2007 1:35:28 PM
What a jackass. I can’t believe you would even insinuate something so moronic, norecross.
But perhaps you would choose to reside with your four-legged canis lupus familiaris brethren if given the choice. Or maybe you would simply prefer to join those which you comically chose to bestow the title of “perfect killing machines.” In fact, you might even desire to join in their lobotomy induced games.
In any case, the worm will inevitably turn on you as it has on your bosom friend, Mr. Vick. He’s more than learned that karma is a bitch--a big, furry canis lupus familiaris.
Posted by: hillbilly | Dec 12, 2007 2:26:20 PM
I'm a white 45 year old man. My father grew up extremely poor in rural South Carolina. (Did not fight dogs or cocks). At 16 years old he walked 10 miles to the enlistment office, lied about his age, and joined the Navy. After three years he was able to go to college on a GI bill. He then got an entry level position with a company and stayed there 35 years, making good money and providing for his family.
My point is, environment has little to do with potential. Opportunity is out there. (Join the service). What ever happened to hard work and doing the right thing.
Posted by: Tim | Dec 12, 2007 2:30:00 PM
R.Mendez,
Very well put....
Being Black and poor is an unfortunate excuse alot of US brothers make for a life of crime and mischief. What you must realize is that POOR people with no way out or eat would rather die on their feet, than live on their knees and starve. Vick did JUST that but did'nt give it up when the big dough came knocking. THAT is what makes him a poor excuse. I too, myself, dont understand the motives behind CHEERING for a guy that got caught bankrolling an illegal act. Just b/c hes Black he gets a free pass? Oh hell no...! I am Black, and would feel even more conflicted if my own people were cheering my illegal actions and subsequent arrest. I dont, and will never, understand when my own people cheered for O.J when he got off. He clearly was guilty as hell, but people cheered anyway. Whether he be Black or White or Yellow or Alien! Wrong is wrong. Pay your dues,do your time, and live up to it. That's what he's doing...now let him alone. Vick not O.J :)
What bothers me more is the fact that Key-YAWN Johnson, was on ESPN claiming how "Vick aint got it no more" and how "He aint never gonna play in the NFL again" and how "Dont no coach want a felon for a QB". Completely hating on the kid.
Mark my words starting here: Vick will be the most sought after QB in the league come next season. I can see him going to Oakland or Arizona or St.Louis (that would be awesome) to see him and T.Holt/I.Bruce hooking up on the regular.
The kid learned his lesson! Now stop you media scumbags for publicizing his demise every 5 minutes! Now...back to football..
Power
Posted by: Power | Dec 12, 2007 2:31:38 PM
Power, Vick was sentenced to two years, of which 18 months are mandatory, following his release, he will be subject to at least a 1 year suspension.
How again will he be the most sought after qb next year?
Posted by: funnyguy | Dec 12, 2007 2:45:45 PM
The big question in the immediate future for Mike Vick is if the commissioner adds a suspension to the end of his prison time. The office has traditionally suspended players for a year for even associating with gamblers, much less being the kingpin that funded it all. I don't think they will make any statements at all until his time is served. Would the Panthers take a chance on him? Absolutely not. Perhaps a remake of the remake of The Longest Yard will happen. If Vick has an agent worth a damn, he will have him or help him write a book to be published at his release, hit some talk shows, and have him meet with the PETA type organizations, etc. He could still make several million just on his story, so I don't worry for his financial well-being. I hope, for his sake and the sake of every kid that idolized him, he will inspire them to become the man he has a chance to become, not the man he was.
Posted by: Perfect Killing Machine | Dec 12, 2007 2:57:57 PM
Furthermore...it's unfortunate that some people write that he did'nt get enough time. That's funny!
How much time do you think he deserves? Did he kill a Man or did he kill a man-eater?
Get over yourselves people!
We aint talking about Poodles or Spanials. These were maneaters, grown & breeded ONLY for fighting and maming the enemy! (Read your history!)
I'm curious...
Would the same amount of people who claim "Death to Vick", be claiming the same if he were killing other Blacks by bankrolling some gang of theives?
You people would'nt even care!!
You scum would just flip the channel! Not important enough for you. You are used to that, so it does'nt even affect you. But because this Man, killed/fought dogs FOR A LIVING while poor, you condemn him to prison for 50 years,never to play fball again. You scum make me and every other guy here whose made mistakes and paid dues absolutely sick! It's people like YOU that tailgate the handicapped, or arrest the homeless for asking for too much change! Kick a man while he's down is the ONLY way you'll feel important and get attention for your contempt of the misunderstood, huh? Forgiveness aint even in your vocabulary unless it's YOU on the hot seat, huh?
Ego driven hating hypocritical scum is what you are......!!
I aint condoning Vicks actions by any means! (Repeat 3 times) And I certainly aint cheering for a speedy incarceration. But it aint the worst that's been done in the world of animal cruelty. These were Pits, not Poodles!!!
Get a life! And stop being scum hatercrites!
Now, back to football......
Power
Posted by: Power | Dec 12, 2007 3:19:22 PM
VICK DESERVES A SECOND CHANCE TO PLAY. I DONT EVEN THINK HE SHOULD HAVE GOT 23 MONTHS IN JAIL. A MAN CAN GO GET DRUNK AND DRIVE HIS CAR INTO SOME YOUNG TEENAGERS CAR AND KILL THEM AND GET A SLAP ON THE RIST. IM NOT FOR KILLING DOGS OR FIGHTING THEM B/C THERE GODS CREATURES BUT THAT CRIME ISNT AS BAD AS THE PEOPLE BEATING THERE FAMILYS AND DRIVING DRUNK AND KILLING FAMILYS...
Posted by: TEDDY | Dec 12, 2007 3:48:00 PM
I understand how easy it is to talk like all of you have risen above these enormous circumstances to become great people. My daddy walked ten miles in rural South Carolina. Well my father had to lose twenty five pounds so that he could work a job. He went from two hundred to one seventy-five because he had kids to feed. When he finished from Carolina they called him a token. I am merely trying to let you dog kissing intellectuals know how it really is in Newport News Virginia. That was almost funny about the oxymoron not being a detergent. I could have used that when I was explaining that term to my class during Romeo and Juliet. Please discontinue making comments about people and the lives they live when you know nothing about their situation. You know nothing but the same crap as everyone else. That is easy though. An earlier post talked about the jealousy because Vick's ability to play ball. All of that factors into your posts. You hold malice in your heart for other things that are not even connected to Vick and dogs. I am not blaming the white man, but how many young black men who sell crack have the trucks and planes to haul it here? They certainly do not grow cocaine in the projects. Someone needs to check that fried chicken bullsh*t. I am supposed to take these posts seriously. I am the moron. All you hardworking people that have the American dream in your grasp can go back to your life of blending in to the masses. The internet was created so you can feel like you are telling someone off in the safety and comfort of your computer chair. I am considered liberal because I think human life is more valuable than a dog. I have the distorted logic. I guess you guys win..
Posted by: norecross | Dec 12, 2007 4:10:59 PM
The man is a beast with no regard for life. He took pleasure in torturing and maiming another living creature.
Power, about your statement:
"But because this Man, killed/fought dogs FOR A LIVING while poor, you condemn him to prison for 50 years,never to play fball again."
I can think of several things wrong with it.
First of all, the man was certainly not poor, and has not been for many years. He's raked in millions from endorsements alone, so he wasn't lacking for any money.
Secondly, the man played football 'for a living' and had no need for a "second job." Simply put, Vick hosted--and participated in--dog fighting for nothing more than his own enjoyment.
And finally, he was sentenced to twenty-three months, not fifty years. Maybe he taught all of his fans out there the valuable lesson that lying doesn't keep you out of prison.
So keep on hating all the "scum" out there that are only seeking justice for the real scumbags. It's only fitting.
Posted by: hillbilly | Dec 12, 2007 4:33:38 PM
You are precisely right, norecross: white men are the bane of the black man's existence. There are no Chinese, Russian, Colombian, Korean, Middle Eastern, or African drug cartels operating within the inner city ghettos of the United States. It's all the white man's fault; he promotes alcohol, tobacco, drugs, dog fighting, prostitution, murder, rape, gang violence, and vile hatred of every sort in order to keep the black man down.
For once I would like to see just one person accept responsibility for their own mistakes instead of trying to justify their lifestyles based on the influences of others. There is a such thing known as free will, and we all make use of it. And we should all have to accept the consequences that our choices bring. It’s the only fair thing to do.
And it seems like the only one harboring any malice is you. Just let it go; there's no need to perpetuate this anger any longer.
Posted by: hillbilly | Dec 12, 2007 5:01:27 PM
Oh, and Power, I personally own a pit bull. It's the single most peaceful and loyal pet I have ever owned. There is not an ounce of hostility or aggression to be found within it.
And I regard it no less than any other breed of dog I have ever known.
What I have learned is that the behavior of animals--of any species or breed--tends to be conditioned to fit the needs of their environment.
Even a tiger is not born a killer; it only becomes one when dictated by need for their survival--be it anything from self preservation or the need to feed.
A dog is no different.
Posted by: hillbilly | Dec 12, 2007 5:38:27 PM
You know how many people be in jail if those people could blame it on their enviroments they grew up in? ...0
Posted by: joe | Dec 12, 2007 6:01:37 PM
Norcross, all of your arguments aside, dogfighting, killing dogs, torturing dogs, and interstate gambling are all ILLEGAL aka an act that is punishable by the law. Agree or disagree with other people's views or arguments, the fact that it is illegal remains constant and unfortunately for Vick, one cannot claim ignorance as justification for a crime.
Posted by: m | Dec 12, 2007 7:09:28 PM
Well norecross you finally said something true. Yes you are a moron!!
Dude, maybe I don't know how it is to grow up in New Port News VA, but you have no idea how it is to grow up in Mexico City.
I bet you've never slept on the floor with 15 other family members because you can't afford a nicer house. I bet you've never had to save up for nine months to be able to buy a used nintendo. I bet you don't have to WALK four miles to get your groceries.
There are a lot of people who are a lot worse off then Michael Vick ever was and they didn't turn to violence and crime. Yeah poor black people have had hard times, but stop acting like that gives them an excuse to do bad things!! There are people who are much worse off then you!!
Posted by: Ronaldo Mendez | Dec 12, 2007 7:28:10 PM
Norcross...very well put!
Nobody here, including myself, knows what Vick went through in his youth. WHY he even started doing the dogfighting thing.
One reason so many blend in the masses is because the CFR-controlled media calls for it. They plug a Mans demise, all over the tube, 24 hrs a day! SO much, that even people without dogs wanna saddle their opinions to the hate bandwagon. It's funny and sad at the same time my brother.
People all of a sudden, literally, are suddenly developing golden hearts sensitive
to dogs and their treatment but cant rally on the real crooks of this world that mame children and r**e women. I blame not the people of hate, but the producers of that hate that spread it to simple minded folk that believe EVERYTHING they see on the CNN news. All you've seen on T.V is Vick's actions from the present. They dont tell the WHOLE story of how he grew up, what choices led to the fighting, or what made him continue when rich. Could've been peer-pressure, or just plain ignorance.
The point is..give the whole story so people of neutral opinion can see the circumstances he was in and THEN base your opinions on the FACTS, not some corporate lackey journalist from ESPN/CNN/MSNBC, etc. Then, you wont have Betty Jane from B.F.E, calling talking about "Hang Vick, Hang Vick". She'd see the TRUTH and base her hate if any, on that! When people form opinions on what they see on T.V based on propanganda and NOT truth.. bandwagons form, cligues form and confused people rant about what they think is the truth. Wake up people! The media is controlling all of us, our fears, our Love, our lives! And if you dont think so, take a look @ ALL the shootings, and mamings they glorify constantly. It puts fear and hate for one another into fashion like no other....Next thing you know, they'll be convincing you simpletons to put down your guns that protect yourselves. And you know what, you'll rally on the bandwagon and convince other simps that it's the best thing to do. Sad indeed....
Vick is a Man. A Man that made a mistake! He's paying for that mistake, now show him some support! I know that last part is tough to swallow, but from a REAL football fan to ALL the others here, I personally wanna see the Man play ball again.
He's that good...!
Now, back to football...
Power
Posted by: Power | Dec 13, 2007 2:51:12 PM
Wow, Power and norecross, R. Mendez really called out the ludicrously in your suggestions. Yes Vick had a hard life, but no that is not an excuse. Lots of people have had hard lives and most of them didn't commit heinous crimes.
Posted by: Matt West | Dec 13, 2007 5:07:55 PM
Cut the racist bullshit, Power. The whole "pity me because I'm a minority and had a rough life and Betty Jane wants to hang me" line is tired and only inflames the stereotype that minorities feel justified in their lifestyles because of their environment.
No, the media is not flooding the airwaves with the "troubles" of Michael Vick because they want to 'control our lives,' they do it because it is the truth and the public is entitled to the truth. Vick brutally maimed and murdered defenseless living creatures. His crime isn't being covered by the media in order to make him look bad--he's done that by himself--it's because the crime is so shocking, and that such a prominent role model perpetrated it.
The FBI creates profiles for the criminals in their database, and do you know what the one trait that most violent offenders have in common? That's right; they enjoy torturing and murdering animals.
Now tell me, how is that not disturbing? Especially since Vick is such a prominent figure in the NFL. If they caught someone like Favre doing the same thing, don't you think it would be equally disturbing? Of course it would.
So cut out all that racist horseshit and maybe people will actually listen to what you have to say.
And if you yourself are weak-minded enough to worry about being controlled by the media, then maybe you should carry your television and radio to the nearest pawn shop and unload it. Then you can be free to live your life without having anyone or anything 'controlling' it.
Posted by: hillbilly | Dec 13, 2007 6:00:31 PM
Hillbilly? Thats your profile name?
Nuff said....
I did'nt say anything racist. And if you CAN read @ all Hillbilly, you'll see that I'm not making excuses for the Man. I'm simply stating that MOST people's views about Vick are based on biased propaganda aimed @ portraying a guy as the worst in the history of criminals. They purposely dont tell the whole story of his youth, because they WANT you to hate him for what he's done recently. Causing agitation and divide! Dont you see that you Hillbilly!? They(media) are paid to provide a facade of truth, and not the whole Truth. (the why, the what-for)
Hillbilly, think about what you write before you write to TRY and cut someone down. "Defenseless" creatures? Huh...?
By you even writing that "the public is entitled" or "because it is the truth" tells me that you TOO are controlled by what you see on T.V. THAT IS NOT THE TRUTH! That is the story they want you to know..that's it! You dont CARE to see the whole story of WHY the man did what he did, you just wanna see a "prominent role models" demise of the present, and base your hate on that!
So...Hillbilly (LOL!) , keep writing/ranting about with your angry words and maybe oneday, just maybe, you'll turn off your T.V, and do some real research. For example: Do you care that his family did'nt/could'nt eat without doing the fighting? Is it too inconcievable to believe that maybe a young man can be/was blackmailed or pressured into keeping the ring going? NO! You dont...! You just BELIEVE what Nancy Grace / CNN tells you to believe.
Stop it Hillbilly (LOL!) you're making me laugh....
Power
Posted by: Power | Dec 14, 2007 7:43:47 AM
Glad to see that you spent more time poking fun at a name than backing up your own paranoid rants.
Maybe you have something against hard working Americans? Who knows and who cares?
But all I know is that those dogs that Vick tortured and killed had already been mauled to near-death, so Vick did, in fact, torture helpless creatures. There was no fight left in them when he murdered them. It takes a mighty big man to take pleasure in killing an already maimed and defenseless animal.
But hopefully you'll keep on laughing. I'm sure you'll find something funny in everything, even the most atrocious acts of violence.
Now, back to football...
hillbilly
Posted by: hillbilly | Dec 16, 2007 10:20:51 AM
Post a comment
Advertisements
