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January 15, 2008

Four QB starters in a season IS new for Panthers

After writing about teams that have started four quarterbacks in one season, I started wondering if it had ever happened with the Panthers.

It never has; Carolina used more than two starters in the same year just once, in 2002, coach John Fox's first season. Rodney Peete was the regular with 14 starts, but he had nagging injuries that year and was replaced in the starting lineup once by Randy Fasani and once by Chris Weinke.

More interesting stuff; I got an email from Ben Ellington, who did a ton of research on the subject with the help of Pro-Football-Reference.com. He found 30 teams that used four starting QBs since the AFL-NFL merger in 1970. He also determined that the average record of those teams was 7-9, same as Carolina's this past season. And that 17 had losing records, 11 had winning seasons and two broke even.

I don't expect this to happen again with the Panthers in 2008. Starter Jake Delhomme's recovery continues to go smoothly, and Delhomme is not injury-prone, having started 59 straight games for Carolina at one stretch. Should something happen to him, likely backup Matt Moore (David Carr will probably be gone) also appears durable. Having the same quarterback week after week would significantly stabilize this team.

•  Chris Phillips of Mooresville pointed out that the Panthers weren't the only team to start four quarterbacks this year. San Francisco made it when former Panther  Weinke started the season finale, joining Trent Dilfer, Shaun Hill and Alex Smith. -- STAN OLSON

Posted by Observer Sports on January 15, 2008 at 02:33 PM | Permalink


So,we win the four quarterbacks bowl versus San Francisco. See, who said the season was a waste?

Posted by: Willy | Jan 15, 2008 2:53:29 PM

Hopefully the O-line will be improved enough to offer more protection for Jake. I like Moore but only want to see him in mop up duty.

This is a stat we can do without this coming season.

Posted by: CEREBRUM | Jan 15, 2008 5:57:35 PM

I thought the Panthers set a record for the most QBs throwing a TD pass in one season

Posted by: Al | Jan 15, 2008 7:57:41 PM

We need to replace the unspecial teams coaches (every last one of them, if anyone know who they are). We also need a new defensive coaching staff.

It really should go smoothly. Every team knows our scheme on defensive anyway. Wait until we are eliminated from the playoffs and then get creative.

With the mix of vets and young guys we have, we should be in the top 5 on defense. I would not worry about resigning Peppers until his contract runs out. Let's use that money to build with players who want to play and does not take so many plays off.

Posted by: pslholder | Jan 15, 2008 9:41:10 PM

Jordan Gross has gotten a couple of All-Star mentions that probably arent' gonna be publicized much. He was picked as an All-Pro by Pete Prisco (CBS Sportsline), as well as Len Pasquarelli (ESPN):

Right tackle

Jordan Gross (Carolina): It was a tough season for the Panthers, but Gross, a pending unrestricted free agent, set himself up for a handsome pay day, either from the Panthers or someone else in the spring. The lack of productivity from an offense forced to start four different quarterbacks is hardly a reflection of his standout performance; the former first-round pick unofficially surrendered only three sacks.

Posted by: Michael Procton | Jan 16, 2008 12:07:22 AM

I'm not saying Gross isnt an above avg lineman in the league, but an opinion from Len Pasquarelli means absolutely nothing, he is by far and away the worst NFL analyst with ESPN, well maybe 2nd now that Pat as joined the team.

Posted by: m | Jan 16, 2008 8:09:13 AM

I think it is hard for the Panthers O-Line to gel considering the fact that the same five are never on the field together. Fox and Hurney seem to think that throwing out five guys makes a line work. Well, it doesn't. Gross should come back. However, I would not blame Hurney if he chose not to go that route. Over the last couple of years I have seen the NFL go crazy paying average lineman the standard 7 years 49 million dollars. I am talking in many cases about guards. If that is the scale, than Gross is with out a doubt worth it. That is the reason I think that the Panthers can not afford him. We have too many holes in too fill.

We need:

Starting LT
Starting WR
Additional RB
Back up WLB,MLB,SLB (Shaw can play one)
Starting FS
Dime CB
DT (who knows what at this point)
DE(Starting or not)

Posted by: Steven | Jan 16, 2008 10:49:40 AM

I think if we can free up some space but cutting Wahle and/or lucas and Hartwig we could be in decent shape to re-sign Gross and still pick up reserve DE's CB's DT's and LB's via draft or Free agency. Their draft picks wont hurt too bad against the cap and we should be able to pick up a starter or two in free agency.

Posted by: m | Jan 16, 2008 11:24:26 AM

I don't think Lucas should be cut. This team has admitted in the past that they have 3 corners on the field 60% of the time. Hartwig is the replacement for Wahle.
This the O-Line I think the Panthers will play

LT- To be named
LG- Hartwig
C- Kalil
RG- Hangartner
RT- Gross

Posted by: Steven | Jan 16, 2008 11:51:54 AM

I'd like to see

LT- Bridges
G- Wharton
G- Hangartner
RT- Gross

Posted by: m | Jan 16, 2008 1:52:03 PM

Since when is Bridges the second coming of Anthony Munoz! This guy was cut from a team with the worst line in football, the Arizona Cardinals.

Posted by: Steven | Jan 16, 2008 3:28:30 PM

Cutting Hartwig saves us no money...it actually costs us about a million extra under the cap. Cutting Wahle would save us $1 mil. Cutting Lucas would cost us FOUR MILLION, so that will never happen.

Here's my ideal line:
LT-Sam Baker
LG: Wahle
C: Kalil
RG: Hartwig
RT: Gross

Really, though, I'm happy to bring back Bridges (who is signed very cheap for the next two years) or Hangartner (whom we can tender for a 5th-round pick for $927K, which might be more than he's worth) and let them compete for the guard spots in camp.

Posted by: Michael Procton | Jan 16, 2008 5:06:11 PM


I agree with Baker, that pick would be fine. Just a little worry with him on Jake's blind side.

Hangartner is a solid player and should be first on depth chart at RG

Posted by: Steven | Jan 16, 2008 5:28:35 PM


I agree with Baker, that pick would be fine. Just a little worry with him on Jake's blind side.

Hangartner is a solid player and should be first on depth chart at RG

Posted by: Steven | Jan 16, 2008 5:30:09 PM

Baker was a very solid LT in a high-powered, pro-style offense...I see no reason he wouldn't do at least as well a job as Travelle "false start" Wharton did this year.

Posted by: Michael Procton | Jan 16, 2008 7:24:46 PM

I'm with m 1000% about the ESPN analysts. And Procton seems to have the best lineup. However, I really like that back Hillbilly provided clips for. BTW, thanks for that link. Can't the cats move Whale to LT and Wharton to RG? Throw Hartwig in at LG and Hangartner at C. If the price is right resign Gross for RT. Whale is not the best option, but the price is right and that would leave cap room for a D-Line overhaul.

Posted by: SYRPIS | Jan 17, 2008 1:15:29 AM

I am having trouble understanding something. Last year Fox and Hurney felt that it is best that the line go to more of a zone blocking scheme. Now the owner is coming out and saying that a hard-nose physical style is needed. After bringing in and spending picks on guys who fit the zone scheme, the team wants to switch back.
Can everyone in this organization please get on the same page, and create a long term plan. If this continues we are looking at 7-9,8-8,7-7,6-10,9-7, year after year.

By the way, the Steelers records over the last 10 years


That is not consistant. Why would you not shoot for a record like New England.
Richardson should try to stop hanging from Rooney's balls

Posted by: Steven | Jan 17, 2008 9:45:40 AM

I think the premise for Richardson wanting to emulate the steelers goes back to his friendship with the Rooney's. Plus, back when Richardson was becoming successfull in business who was the most dominant franchise...The Steelers. But more than anything, I think Richardson appreciatest the stability of that organization. They dont change ownerships and everything is run within the family to ensure everyone is on the same page, on top of that, how many coaches have they had in 40 years...that would be 3. Sure NE would be a nice team to try to simulate in the short term (how often were they good prior to Parcells and Bill B.) But in for the long term, the Steelers are the model franchise. And I would say that having only 2 losing seasons over a 10 year span IS consistant.

Posted by: m | Jan 17, 2008 10:18:13 AM

Too bad Richardson will not let his fans act as loyal to Steeler Fans. No loud music,no standing and cheering and lots of new ads on the new Jumbotrons and I am a PSL holder not a Steeler fan.

Posted by: Jay | Jan 17, 2008 12:46:46 PM

Steven, you wouldn't want to emulate the Cheatriots because they don't follow the rules.

Posted by: Michael Procton | Jan 17, 2008 12:51:45 PM

I think it is easy to call them cheats. If they cheated to win the first game, how did they win the next 15?

Posted by: Zeke | Jan 17, 2008 1:21:56 PM

The Pats didnt follow the rules, but then again, they were the only ones to get caught.

Posted by: m | Jan 17, 2008 1:39:01 PM

The days of the Cardiac Cats back in 2003 seem long gone. When was the last time we came from behind in the fourth quarter? I hope the players, the coaches, and the fans can get back the passion that made 2003 a fabulous season. If modeling our franchise after the Steelers is the answer, then I am all for it. They have much more loyal fans than we do.

Posted by: Z | Jan 17, 2008 3:38:53 PM

Come on guys we can keep T.Wharton cheap. He is a good LT. Besides the OL is a position unlike most in Football you don't always have the best athletes but continuity will make them ALL better. If anything let Bridges & Hangartner compete for RG and cut Hartwig. Resign Travelle we will keep him at a good Price. Draft the best DE in the 1st round or the S from the U Phillips. GET RID OF D. FOSTER!!!!!!!! Try to find a way to sign Chester Taylor. Foster can't hit a hole!!I'm tired of watching him come to a complete stop once he is given the ball,he is also very careless carrying the ball. Taylor would give us that power runner we have been desperately seeking since S. Davis. If I was Hurney I would trim all the dead fat off our roster. Kemo would be the first to go. We pay him 4.5 million more than Kris Jenkins. That is crap. No wonder he is disgrunted,who would not be? We need a #2
WR Carter still is not ready even though I think they will re-sign him. I would take a look at D.Stallworth. Dan Morgan can stay as long as he plays OLB and plays for the league min. he owes that to the Panthers. If not cut his ass!! Next years team captains: Offense: Jake Delhomme,Steve Smith. Defense: JON "THE MAN" BEASON & Kris Jenkins!! ST: John Kasay. I know Jenkins gives up at least 5 yards per game jumping offsides but he has always done that and he is still worth it. I think he is one of the best DT's in the league. And when the panthers put garbage play on the field he was the first to say it. He fired the team up and we won our next 2 games after that. He wants to be a leader on the team we need to give him a chance to be!!!

Posted by: WOWO | Jan 17, 2008 4:03:35 PM

People may want to see Jenkins traded. Yet who can replace his passion & talent on the Panthers at DT?

If anything I agree Kemo should go, I'm pretty sure they could find a better DT in the draft.

I like Wharton but the team needs somebody to protect Jake from the left. The OL needs an upgrade if they plan on competing next year. The running game would definitely improve with a better OL and a proven veteran RB.

Posted by: CEREBRUM | Jan 17, 2008 7:42:33 PM

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