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April 16, 2008
Kiper: Trading up for Ryan a good move
ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr. believes the Panthers are -- and should be -- serious about possibly making a move up in the first round of the draft to get Boston College quarterback Matt Ryan.
"I've been talking about it for a month and a half," Kiper said on a conference call with reporters this morning. "Carolina needs a quarterback. I like Matt Moore. But if you want to make a big splash ... They need some excitement.
"If you asked people on the street, 'Who's on the Carolina offense?' not many people can answer after (WR) Steve Smith. They need playmakers. They need a little personality on the offensive side of the ball.
"They need a face for the organization."
Kiper said he sees no way Ryan will fall past the Baltimore Ravens with the No. 8 pick, and that Carolina would have to trade up to get him, probably with New England at No. 7. He said the Panthers would become a factor if the Atlanta Falcons (third pick) and Kansas City Chiefs (fifth) pass on Ryan.
"It just makes sense to me," Kiper said. "Matt Ryan is the No. 1 (QB in the draft) for a reason. If Carolina can find a way to get to seven if he doesn't go to Kansas City or Atlanta, it'd be a good move."
The Patriots are said to be looking to move down in the first round. Kiper said New England might be an ideal trade partner for the Panthers.
"Would New England be targeting a corner? And could you get a good corner at 13? Yes," said Kiper.
As we reported in this morning's paper, draft value boards indicate the Panthers would have to give up at least one of their two third-round picks or possibly their second-rounder (No. 43) in order to move from No. 13 to 7.
-- Charles Chandler
Posted by Observer Sports on April 16, 2008 at 11:42 AM | Permalink
Comments
Guess what Kiper is a moron. Exitement for Fox is a 5 yard run up the middle when you need it and Fox hates young QB's and wants to run the ball and stop the run. The panthers will draft OT and DT 1 and 2 or vice versa-no question about it.
Posted by: Mike | Apr 16, 2008 12:23:21 PM
Kiper is an idiot. McShay is the MAN! No way we draft Ryan - even if he's available at 13. I do like the idea of trading draft picks with New England. Maybe we can get lucky and grab Ryan Clady or Vernon Gholston.
Posted by: Jake | Apr 16, 2008 12:52:48 PM
Aha...brilliant idea, Mel. It's more important to have a "face" than a player who fits your needs. It's a wonder you're not a tenured GM, buddy.
I will note, though, that we could move up that high (to get someone else, I'd hope) by using just our extra 3rd and our 4th. Giving up our 2nd would be more than enough to move us up to 5th (6th-rounder coming back?) if we wanted to do it, based on the new trade value chart.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Apr 16, 2008 1:00:03 PM
No way the Panthers should be considering this. QB is one of their positions of least need, and they have numerous positions of great need. They need to get quality players at OT, DL, and RB, and using their first round plus giving up a 2nd or 3rd rounder destroys their ability to do that. Besides, as Mike says above, Fox hates the idea of developing young QB's (he only put Moore in there because he had no other options; thank god that happened). So no way this happens. It's just a smoke-screen.
Posted by: Wayne D | Apr 16, 2008 1:04:35 PM
study kipers mock drafts for the last 5 years, ridiculous! look at TMQB on Espn page 2 past write ups about Mel, his draft day comments, where he says a guy is a first rounder and later when drafted in round 3 he says 'yea, that's where i projected him'
he's a liar, incompetent, and we all wish we had his job!!!
We don't need a face when every game for ten years has sold out! we need wins to keep us happy, and matt ryan nor any rookie QB, including Ben R when he was a rookie, are going to be better than matt moore as a back up or starter in year one. sure matt ryan , could be, could be, better in year two onwards BUT umm how many QB busts have we had in round one in past ten years? or how many alah brady couldn't get on the field over an undrafted qb??? (we need players now!)
so yea, if we draft QB before like round 5 or at all, our management is off base (unless ryan drops to round three!!
PS
stop quyoting the draft chart, not every team uses it, johnson back in the day at dallas created it, it suited their needs, but it's pretty absurd if you look at it, what makes sense is value and arbitrarily putting decreasing value numbers on the draft is meaningless. Value is substantative not objective and can't be known off a card - just like the stupid go for two card versus 'kick early go for it late' which works much better. (several teams last year lost cause they went for two off the chart, but later the game proved out that if they had kicked for one they would have won)
procton, i see you on here a lot and you often have good comments, so jsut wanted to give you a shout out
Posted by: Isaiah | Apr 16, 2008 1:11:20 PM
The only way this move is even feasible is if all the reports are wrong and Hurney and Fox aren't high on Moore and Basanez and/or Jake's arm is still in really bad shape. But assuming we're not being openly lied to, it doesn't seem like we have a need for a gamble at QB, especially one that would cost us a high pick with so many needs elsewhere. Not to mention the fact that Hurney and Fox are in a position of needing to win THIS season in order to secure their jobs. If a trade up does occur, it will be for OT or RE.
Posted by: Christian | Apr 16, 2008 1:19:10 PM
Isaih...the trade value chart has actually come back into favor because there's a new version circulating which better takes into account the huge salaries 1st-rounders are getting paid: http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/
Also, I don't know how Matt Moore's 13.0 PPG average in the only real games he played leads you to believe he's a better option than any other QB in the draft.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Apr 16, 2008 1:21:54 PM
I don't like trading with the Patriots either... Look what happened to San Fran last year. They traded up in the late first round with NE, figuring they would be good enough to where their '08 pick wouldn't be top 10. Well, that backfired. I like Ryan, but he's not worth trading up to #7 for. There are going to be some good options for Rounds 2 and 3.
Posted by: PantherDave | Apr 16, 2008 1:40:10 PM
Other than the the two Longs , the only player I'd want to move up to get is Gholston...But their 'intrest' in Ryan sounds a bit like a team trying to move down in the draft
Posted by: m | Apr 16, 2008 1:43:51 PM
NO to RYAN. Don't blow your draft on a unneeded position and give up other draft choices. Yes, a reason Ryan is the top QB in the draft, also a reason that Ryan might fall to the Ravens at 8th and some believe he might fall past them anyway.
Posted by: jbw | Apr 16, 2008 1:57:36 PM
But we do need to draft a qb at some point, but no need to use our first few picks on one.
Posted by: m | Apr 16, 2008 2:10:31 PM
But we do need to draft a qb at some point, but no need to use our first few picks on one, maybe an Andre Woodson if he slides down to day 2
Posted by: m | Apr 16, 2008 2:11:00 PM
It would be a horrible move to trade up for Ryan. I feel that if the Panthers trade up it should be for Dorsey or Ellis only. There will be QBs in rounds 2-3 that can be developed into good players. The Panthers need line help now on both sides of the ball. I believe there are only 4 DTs on the current roster and two of those were on the practice squad last year. DT is a must in the draft. That is the position I see the Panthers trading up for, not QB.
Posted by: JThomas | Apr 16, 2008 2:52:05 PM
the ONLY way you move up is to draft Gholston,Dorsey or Ellis!! Do not lose a 2nd and 3rd rounder though.
Posted by: wowo | Apr 16, 2008 3:06:59 PM
Remember last year? Kiper said that there was NO way Brady Quinn would slip past the Dolphins.
Posted by: Ryan | Apr 16, 2008 3:53:31 PM
Im thinkn the only possible move is down not up. We need position players not a QB.
Posted by: randy | Apr 16, 2008 4:30:42 PM
Just what the hell is wrong with Matt Moore if Jake can't come back. Moore did pretty darned well at the end of last season when all was lost, and he has had all offseason to bone up on the playbook and will get most of the snaps in minicamp. Give him the ball if 17 can't go!!!!
Posted by: Phil | Apr 16, 2008 4:46:14 PM
Yeah, Matty Moore BLEW ME AWAY with his stupendous 13.0 PPG in the only real games he played in.
Posted by: Michael Procton | Apr 16, 2008 7:04:49 PM
This is stupid. Neither Fox nor Hurney like drafting QBs. All their talk is a smoke screen and if we actually draft a QB, it will leave a glaring hole in spots we need to fill (OT, DE, etc).
This would essentially be one of the worst moves I think we could make. Ryan might be a good QB for the future, but if everyone believes the Panthers brass are on the hotseat, the future is now.
Posted by: Sweeney | Apr 16, 2008 7:57:46 PM
Yeah Matty Moore was 2-1 which would make the playoffs. I guess your calculator cannot dissect percenatges at GTI
Posted by: David | Apr 16, 2008 9:09:50 PM
13 ppg is not just indicative of QB, ya'all were hatin on the Oline and Foster, and Colbert, and Carter, and play calling, so don't now tell me Moore was bad cause the team you both (righlty) criticized last year averaged 13 ppg, this isn't basketball! 2-1 is a better indicator, the confidence the vets had in him is a better indicator, knowing he can make every throw is a better indicator, and having 3 games NFL experience at his potential is better than Ryan or any posible QB in the draft, and actually proves my point, any of the rookies would not be more ready than Moore, who played last year and who has been studying our stuff since!
and the draft chart is still arbitrary and bogus, Procton I looked at your link, it still just drops 30, 35 or 40 points or other amounts for no apparent reason, it doesn't assess, this guys avaialbe, and these guys are worth him wtherh it fits the chart is more than the chart or less than the chart.
it's bogus.
are you seriously going to tell me the #1 pick is worth the first 8 players of the third round.
are you telling me if yo went to any, any, any GM in the league and said, I'll give you the first pick or the first 8 selections of the third round (add up your charts numbers) that any GM would not take the 8 guys in the third round and find 2 or 3 starters and 4 or 5 special team, second teams, and basically rebuild the core of a team? huh, nice chart!
Posted by: Isaiah | Apr 16, 2008 9:30:38 PM
You know procton, youve got a point but if you wear a hat,nobody will notice.
you keep obsessing about moores 13.0 point average.
first of all he was 1 of 53 panthers ,playing against some very good teams. he managed the game well. he didnt lose the game. that is very impressive for a rookie who didnt even have training camp.
moore is 6.5 and from what i saw and what the color analysts were saying, he has a big time arm. plus he can move in the pocket.
and please dont give me this crap about him not being drafted. brady wasnt drafted till the 6TH round and unitas was cut by the steelers.
think before you type.
Posted by: ray | Apr 17, 2008 5:28:57 PM
Isaiah, Moore CAN'T make every throw. He didn't throw a single deep pass with any accuracy at all. Every pass he had of over 15 yards was of the catch-and-run (Rosario vs. SEA) or the jump ball (Smith vs. DAL, Jarrett vs. NO) variety. Come back and talk to me when he leads at least two TD drives in a game against STARTERS.
And yes, Ray...Matt Moore is 6.5...if by "6.5" you mean 6'3".
Posted by: Michael Procton | Apr 17, 2008 7:35:52 PM
Michael, Moore was 2-1 without throwing deep balls. Pretty damn good for a rookie your points as usual along with your facts are wrong. Plus did they not teach you SPELLCHECK AT GTI
Posted by: Jay | Apr 17, 2008 8:10:18 PM
Fox's first year as coach he had the number two pick and everyone said take Joey Harrington well Fox picked Peppers and that worked out. Fox isn't going to pick ryan he better not. Kiper just shut up
Posted by: Joseph | Apr 18, 2008 9:39:02 AM
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