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February 27, 2009

Sheppard trade a glimpse of Lucas' value

Some semblance of what the Carolina Panthers may be seeking in trade compensation for cornerback Ken Lucas may be found in the deal the Phiadelphia Eagles and New York Jets are close to completing.

According to NFL.com's Adam Schefter, the Eagles are completing a deal to send cornerback Lito Sheppard to the Jets for a 2009 fifth-round pick and a 2010 conditional pick, which could be as high as a second-rounder or as low as a fourth-rounder.

Sheppard will be 28 by the start of the season and is two years younger than Lucas.

However, Lucas has been more of a consistent starter. Lucas started every game for the past two seasons and has 63 starts, counting playoffs, since arriving with the Panthers in 2005. Sheppard started just three games last season and never has started all 16 games in a season.

A fifth-round pick this year and a fourth-rounder next year, with the possibility of it becoming a second based upon agreed-upon conditions, would seem reasonable compensation for Lucas. Of course, the Panthers might have to take less because of his age. Given the Panthers' recent dealings with the Jets  (such as the Kris Jenkins trade last year), you'd have to think Carolina offered Lucas to New York.

Any compensation for Lucas would beat having to release him without getting anything in return. The Panthers would save $2.375 million under their 2009 salary cap by releasing or trading Lucas.

Lucas nixed a potential trade to Detroit, which went 0-16 last season, but the Panthers are believed to be closely monitoring the market of teams looking for veteran cornerback help in order to find a trade partner.

-- Charles Chandler

Posted by Observer Sports on February 27, 2009 at 09:28 PM | Permalink


I hate to see Lucas go but if we are not going to offer him much and he might leave, let's at least get 2 draft picks for him. Call NY and Philly now befoe Sheppard is finalized and see if either will do this one instead (or in Philly's case, to replace Lito).

Posted by: Orange Chuck | Feb 27, 2009 10:24:36 PM

lucas sure did dissapoint me last year but why dont we just move him to nickle? plus i remember two years ago gamble was the one getting toasted... remember that play on 4 and 10 against the bengals when ocho cinco burned him one on one and the play when chris cooley burned him for an 80 td against the redskins... and he had a great year this year... maybe instead of just releasing him we just keep him. he's prolly better than any FA cb on the market right now we'd probly be looking at as a 3rd db anyways... and who knows maybe he wont get burned so consistently in meeks system...

Posted by: matt s | Feb 27, 2009 10:57:05 PM

Being "in the business" it's hard to understand why you don't seem to grasp the entire expanation of the difference between Lucas/Sheppard comparison or even why Lucas nixed the trade to Detroit.

In was obvious to a layman like me, that the only way Lucas could refuse a trade( w/o an extremely rare no trade clause) was that he was asked to redo his contract and refused. I don't think I read that anywhere in the local media.

As to the L/S comparison, it again seem obvious that current contracts and the ability to negotiate a reasonable extention need to be factored in. Sheppard's is one year in the $2.5 million range and Lucas' is for 2 years in the $6 million per range. It will be much easier extending Sheppard at a higher salary than asking Lucas to take a cut. Teams will give higher picks for the longer the contract and lower the salary. Both of which would favor Sheppard.

Posted by: Steve | Feb 27, 2009 11:21:31 PM

Dont believe The Panthers offered Lucas to the Jets since Mangini and staff was fired and they worked well with Hurney.

Kind of like saying Denver loves Panthers castoffs too and that since Bly is gone they would want Lucas and would HAVE jumped on Peppers but Shanahan is gone.

Or then again maybe Denver learned from singing Keary Colbert as a Fa.

Posted by: GhostOfSparta | Feb 28, 2009 4:03:20 AM

I agree with Orange Chuck, Lucas was especially disappointing in the late season, and especially the cards game. He was owned at almost every conjecture. Losing him is not my main concern, since I think his tenure here was weakened by all this trade/release talk. But Gamble was the target of disection debates just a short while ago. Lucas needs to show up at SC.
We have to address the secondary for 2009.

Posted by: gmonet | Feb 28, 2009 9:55:52 AM

Ken Lucas is more of a physical corner than a pure cover corner. He needs to be allowed to bump the receiver at the line and jam him up a little, but since he has been here he has usually been placed ten yards off the line of scrimmage. I've heard Ron Meeks plans to the player's strengths instead of trying to force the player into a predetermined system, so I wouldn't mind giving Lucas another chance if Ron Meeks actually has some say in the defensive scheme.

Posted by: jeff | Feb 28, 2009 9:58:10 AM

I think getting rid of him just for the sake of getting rid of him would be a mistake. For the MOST part he played fairly well. I know he got burned quite often by the Cards and Saints, but name a team/CB that didn't. If he was so terrible why didn't Foxy replace him with Richard Marshall? There must be something they like about him. Plus, word is that the Panthers may be switching to a Tampa 2 defense, which relies on cover type CBs a little less. I think if the Panthers keep him and rotate him and Marshall, they will be able to put a fairly good to very good secondary on the field.

Posted by: Wayne | Feb 28, 2009 10:19:31 AM

i too am hoping meeks and his new system can help lucas.what we really need to focus on is getting a stud def tackle who can pressure the q.b. that would help the secondary more than anything. we had no inside push last year.

Posted by: ray | Feb 28, 2009 11:47:57 AM

Could the Panthers be sending Lucas and Peppers to KC as the third team rumoured to be part of the Cassell / Vrabel deal with NE?

Posted by: jj | Feb 28, 2009 2:28:58 PM

With NE trading Vrabel and Cassell, they now have some cap room and some extra picks in order to make a Peppers trade work. I wouldn't mind the panthers getting the 23rd and 35th (from Chiefs) overall for Peppers.

Posted by: Zach | Feb 28, 2009 3:01:26 PM

gree with Zach about the Pats and Peppers.
Will be interesting to see if the Pats make a run for Peppers. They trade away and outside LB and clear up cap space; could easily be looking for Peppers. Might be their 23rd and perhaps their original 2nd rounder which I think is something like #54

Posted by: jbw | Feb 28, 2009 4:01:16 PM

Just one question, why can't we trade a 2nd round pick for Casell? I mean, as hard as it is to find a quality starting QB in the National Football League,, one would think this is a steal for the Chiefs. Where were Hurney and Fox on this one. It's not like we really have a backup plan after Delhomme....

We could have killed 2 birds with one stone by sending. Pep to NE for Casell and maybe a 2nd or 1st. Any thoughts?

Posted by: rhackney | Feb 28, 2009 4:01:24 PM

Pioli goes from Personnel Director at NE to GM at KC and then this deal??? In the finacial industry these guys would be facing jail time for insider trading. Who sends a franchised starting QB to another team along with a starting LB for a single second round draft pick??? There is something seriously wrong with this picture and I for one hope someone looks into it.

Posted by: HeelsRule | Feb 28, 2009 5:05:39 PM

the pats have more up their sleeves to be seen. think about it 2nd round pick for 2 important players. What if they are looking to add peppers? They just lost their most versitle defensive player who also plays some offense and pepps could fit the same mold. He could go de,olb, and te at goaline. They just cleared 18 mil. They could easily do a two 2nd round picks, and a 3rd or 4th or just a 1st and 3rd. The pats do love pepps mold of players being that they get more for their money(adalius thomas, troy brown, vrabel, merriweather, samuel, and etc)

Posted by: faulk | Feb 28, 2009 5:30:56 PM

Trade jake and peppers for donovan mcnabb. McNabb is not happy in philly. He has no Top wide receivers nor a stable defense anymore. Its time to say goodbye to Jake and hello to donovan. Can Carolina handle a pro bowl black qb. hmmm.

Posted by: badbond | Feb 28, 2009 6:13:28 PM

this is why n.e is a perenial super bowl contender,they are smart.fox is in love with jake so forget about us getting a decent q.b.the peppers situation is getting bizarre. we must get this guy off our payroll.hes killing our cap plus hes going to walk in a year anyway.i would rather see a straight up trade with a def tackle being our top priority.

Posted by: ray | Feb 28, 2009 6:24:25 PM

A Peppers for Cassel and an additional draft pick would have been the best possible trade the Panthers could have made. However Fox and Hurney have been on a 4 year hangover from drinking the Joke Gohomme spiked kool-aid. We're stuck with the worst starting quarterback in the NFC South until Fox and Hurney are gone. Now it looks like we are stuck with Peppers for next season. What team in their right mind will be willing to give up what the Panthers are looking for and then sign Peppers to a 100 million plus contract. The Redskins stupid move of paying Hansworth all of that money have killed any chance of the Panthers moving Peppers. We'll pay him the 17 million this season and he'll walk for nothing next offseason. Our cap is screwed for this season and we won't hardly have enough cash to sign our draft picks unless some deals are restructured. The only thing positive that can come of this is Fox, Hurney, and Joke Gohomme will be gone come 2010.

Posted by: J Thomas | Feb 28, 2009 8:12:13 PM

why does lucas not rework his contract and stay

Posted by: kens agent | Feb 28, 2009 8:25:24 PM

OC, he can't just "leave." He's under contract for the next two years.

matt, it's tough to drop Lucas to 3CB when Marshall's performance last year was inconsistent at best.

Steve, a player can refuse a trade by not reporting to his new team. Terrell Owens pulled this a few years ago after he had been traded to the Ravens. Also, I don't know where you're getting your numbers from, but Sheppard has three years left at about $5 mil in cap charges a pop.

rh, Cassell is no sure bet. He had one non-playoff year as a starter with some of the best coaching and personnel in the league to support him.

HR: a team looking to clear cap space. The Patriots, like a few other teams, know that the most consistently successful way to build a team is through cheap, young players acquired via the draft.

faulk, it was Peppers who nixed the WR experiment a few years back, not the staff. And for all his "versatility," all he's done since he graduated high school is play DE, and very inconsistently, at that.

Yes, ray...Delhomme is clearly sub-"decent," which is why he's led the team to three playoff appearances, two conference championships, and a Super Bowl in his four healthy years of starting and is among the 25 highest-rated QBs IN NFL HISTORY. Glad you aren't a talent evaluator for the Panthers.

Posted by: Michael Procton | Feb 28, 2009 11:39:01 PM

Since Cassel is now dealt to the Chiefs, I have heard that Pioli is shopping Tyler Thigpen for a fifth round pick...I think that Hurney should not come to work Monday without Thigpen on board as a Panther...the other option is to trade Lucas to Cleveland for Derek Anderson...both of these QB's have a lot of upside...especially Thigpen, given his performance this year...

Posted by: KY | Mar 1, 2009 12:04:57 AM

Yes Procton, you are correct Casell is not a sure bet. But how many 2nd or 3rd round QB's are sure bets anyway? Brohn, and Henne, anybody? Casell is much more proven than any other non-starter QB in the league after this year. I would feel much more comfotable handing the keys to Casell in a year or 2, than hoping that Matt Moore, Mccown or a draft pick (i.e. LaFors) "works out". Casell did all of that with Moss and Welker, but he also did it with ZERO running game.

All I am saying is that to get Casell for a 2nd rounder is Great value. I just wish that the Panthers could have been around those whispers when NE was shopping their back-up QB.

Posted by: rhackney | Mar 1, 2009 2:26:25 AM

I agree completely with Ken! Anybody know what kind of salary cap hit, if any, we take when trading away Pep? I think it would be good to offer Lucas a small extension and see what he can do under the new DC. He was only bad a few games at the end. Maybe he was hurt or got tangled up in whatever happened that led to everybody's unhappiness on the D. Charles why don't you or Scott try to find out what happened with the defense that led to the implosion and exitus.

Posted by: Panthster | Mar 1, 2009 7:17:32 PM

Well look at the articles surfacing about peps and n.e. now procton. Im just saying the kc deal made things fishy in the ne camp. You don't trade that away just for a second they now have 3 second rd picks hhhhmmm?!?!?

Posted by: faulk | Mar 2, 2009 4:34:57 PM

Well look at the articles surfacing about peps and n.e. now procton. Im just saying the kc deal made things fishy in the ne camp. You don't trade that away just for a second they now have 3 second rd picks hhhhmmm?!?!?

Posted by: faulk | Mar 2, 2009 4:34:59 PM

"Zero running game," rh? The Pats had about 100 fewer rushing yards than the Panthers did!

Pster, there is no hit if Peppers is traded, because there is no signing bonus associated with the franchise tag.

Posted by: Michael Procton | Mar 3, 2009 1:57:32 AM

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